Jump to content

Rhythm of War Full Book Reactions


Chaos

Recommended Posts

Woah, long time since I've posted on the forum, but damn I have to get these emotions out.

So, RoW. What a different book to the rest of the SA! I can see why it gets some of the bad reviews/people don't like it, and I don't think it's the best SA book (for me that goes to WoR or Oathbringer).

However, boy have I never been through such emotions whilst reading a book. Very well done and congratulations Mr Sanderson for those feelings. The Dabbid and Teft chapters were, sublime. I wanted to weep. I think for me, whilst different to his other works, RoW is still a great book.

I identify most strongly with Kaladin (the PTSD and depression) and while his chapters are sometimes a drag to read through, this very much echos being in the headspace Kaladin is in and reminding my self of this lessens the frustration. I was glad he managed to overcome them and say the 4th Ideal and I think it added to the joy, struggle and theme of the ideal that it wasn't a big, world-saving event like his previous ideals. 

I felt for most of the book this overhanging ''the good guys aren't going to win this one, it's going to end on a loss'', rather like 'The Empire Strikes Back'. Whilst we did have Navani and Kaladin triumph (much needed I think, otherwise it would have been a real frustration and downer to have to wait 3years for the next book and a win), I feel overall, it was a fairly neutral outcome. 

As for Dalinar's contest, given the terms, Dalinar has to lose. I can't see how the remainder of the Cosmere would play out with interesting stakes if Dalinar wins. 

The Lasting Integrity arc was great and Maya's revelation and development was brilliant. I'm absolutely not a fan of Shallan and don't like her as a person - she's not honourable and thinks she's more clever than she is. 

I was absolutely horrified by what Ishar is doing with the Spren.

It would be nice to see more Nightblood & Szeth, and what happened to Zahel during the Tower occupation? (Out of Vasher and Kaladin, I cannot decide who is my absolute favourite Cosmere character). 

Kelsier being the head of the Ghostbloods makes sense, there always seemed to me to be something off about Kelsier in Mistborn and I was never much of a fan (favourite character in that series was Elend or TenSoon). It'll be interesting to see whether this faction are for good or being set up as antagonists. 

All of the science/mechanics made sense to me and I very much enjoyed reading them (I can't stand the 'soft' magic systems), however I do see they took up a lot of space and this can bog down the pace of the story. The Navani/Raboniel relationship was great. Raboniel with her daughter and killing her, chilling and again I wanted to weep. Whilst the Eshoni/Venli flashbacks were a nice story, they mainly confirmed things we already knew and I feel this was definitely Navani's book. 

 

I'm still processing this book, if I think of anything else I'll add it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

This is just so offensive. It is Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is most definitely NOT schizophrenia. It does exist, and can manifest differently in different people. And Shallan was a remarkable depiction of it. There are people on this forum with DID, who have described how much they could relate to Shallan’s experiences.

We literally looked at the pictures of someone with DID today in class, and I knew her diagnosis immediately due in large part to having just finished RoW. The way the artist described her experiences was remarkably similar to the what happens with Shallan.

It seems to me that you only care for the mental illness you have being portrayed, while having no patience for others.

I will look into DID, it may make me like Shallan as a character a whole lot more as part of my problem with it was i wasnt sure what Sanderson was trying to do with her. Hence why i thought he was trying to portray schizophrenia, and doing it poorly. I'd be overjoyed to be wrong on this one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ftl said:

I think it's the other way around - Taravangian is *staying* the antagonist. It's been Taravangian vs Dalinar the whole time.

 

interesting, hadnt thought of it that way. actually helps a bit. still feels kind of weird to just change Odiums out like this, but I think its something I will come to like more on a re-read with more perspective

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disliked Oathbringer so I was wondering about whether I should continue on with the series. I'm glad I did because I really liked this book! I felt it was a bit too long, but still epic. I'm writing a review mostly so i remember what happened in this book lol.

Navini- Her arc was so cool. It was interesting to read about her past relationship with Gavilar and see her mourn her sons death. My favorite part was when Gavilar said she "wasn't worthy" and I finally felt like I understood her character and why she has this weird mix of confidence and insecurity that made her kind of off-putting to me before. When the Sibling told her she wasn't worthy and she was like >:|  love that for her. I think that too much time was spent on her and Raboniel discovering fabrials or whatever. It was a little interesting but mostly boring.

Venli- I looooooooooooved reading Venli's pov. New favorite character?? Her character is so complex and her motivations feel so real. The flashbacks were beautifully written. My favorite moment was when she first tried out her radiant powers and heard the songs of the stones. When Eashoni got to ride the storm and see the world before she died? :'( 

Kaladin- I think his depression was written well, and it was interesting to see him interact with his family. His dad is so annoying omg. The parts where he was learning to use the fabriel glove and setting up a better treatment for the mental patients was kind of boring, and maybe over written. I think the ending was so epic though it made up for it. All his fights with the Pursuer were so siiiiiick.

Shallan- I've always disliked the way Shallan's split personality arch was dealt with, it was one of the main reasons I disliked Oathbringer so much. I'm glad she's working towards mending her personality and that Veil is gone. I thought it was boring how much time was spent on her being suspicious of her friends because like...obviously it wasn't gonna be one of them idk. I was surprised that Radiant killed Ialia and that Shallan has had 2 spren! Those were good twists. I'm so glad she didn't join with the ghostbloods.

Adolin- My boi is too good for this world, too pure.

Dalinar- I never really cared about anything his character did in this book lol It felt disconnected.

Jasnah- Kind of cool. She's trying too hard, but I guess that's the point. Her and Wit's relationship was unexpected but I'm not mad at it.

I want more Renarin content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, long post incoming- I just need to get my thoughts out haha.   Spoilers for all of RoW, and light spoilers for the rest of the cosmere.

Spoiler

Here are my initial thoughts on Rhythm of War, now that I’ve had a few days to think about it.  Overall Thoughts: I really enjoyed the book and think it’s my second favorite Stormlight Archive book after Words of Radiance.  I think it’s Sanderson’s best written book- in terms of his language, character work (more on this later), and pacing (although Words of Radiance probably edges this out).  Brandon seemed to really have done his homework with some of the mental health stuff (or at least he has a very diverse and extensive group of alpha and beta readers).  These aren’t final thoughts and I’m not going to hit on everything- I just want to engage in the conversation and write some of what I’m thinking down. 

Kaladin:  I loved his arc in this book.  I think it was super important for Kaladin to have an arc that didn’t focus on him striving to be an action hero.  Narratively, it would have been repetitive for him to have another arc that leads to him swearing his next Ideal just in time to fight a big threat (Well, he kind of does in this book.  However, the climactic moment allows him to save his Dad rather than say, defeat the Pursuer or Leshwi). 

I also really appreciate that Sanderson went in-depth with how depressed Kaladin was feeling at times.  I’ve never dealt with PTSD, but I have dealt with (what I’d probably say is) more situational depression, and some of the scenes with Kaladin are spot on.  I absolutely adore the bar chapter/scene in part 1.  Kaladin says that he doesn’t want to be around anyone.  This causes Syl (and/or Adolin) to make sure that Kaladin is with people.  The scene of Kaladin breaking down in his room is heart breaking and raw.  It makes the subsequent bar scene that much better.  I love Kaladin and Adolin as best friends, and I really like how Veil interacted with them in this scene.  Watching Kaladin effectively star in “Die Hard in Urithiru” was also fun, even I think the section was too long. 

The scene where Kaladin swore his Fourth Ideal was also excellent.  Intercutting this with Dalinar and the Stormfather was a great choice.  I really like the Ideal itself (“I accept that there will be those I cannot protect.”).  I think it fits that this is further along in a Windrunner’s progression, as it requires a deeper emotional understanding and acceptance of oneself that is more internally driven than the previous two Ideals.  It was also great that this crystalized Kaladin and Lirin’s relationship (finally haha).  I also most definitely cried when Kaladin finally said the Fourth Ideal haha. 

 

Shallan:  Shallan has not historically been my favorite character.  I’ve generally thought that everything happening around her was more interesting than her.  That was not the case in this book.  I really enjoyed how Brando wrote Shallan.  I liked that there was a more defined “relationship” between her different personalities, and that it was more clear how this was affecting her.  The creeping threat of “Formless” was a more concrete threat that added plot tension, but also seemed like a very real representation of Shallan losing herself if she didn’t face her past. 

I also cried when Shallan said her truth (that she killed her first spren).  This scene was particularly brilliant in how it lined up Shallan’s internal plot (facing her past, dismissing Veil, and saying her Truth) with her external plot (will she become a full Ghostblood and capture Kalak’s soul for Mraize).

               I also love her relationship with Adolin (more on him later).  It was very… okay(?) in the previous books, but I really like how they help each other work through their issues.  It’s quickly becoming my favorite fictional relationship ever.  The bar scene with Kaladin at the beginning is a great illustration of how they interact (and it’s great that we see the through a POV that isn’t Shallan or Adolin).  Their conversation outside of Lasting Integrity is particularly great, as it involves both of them facing their issues together (but in different ways). 

 

Adolin:  Adolin is officially the character in fiction I would most want to be friends with (besides Sam Gamgee haha).  I love his steadfast loyalty to Shallan, Kaladin, Maya, and his troops (maybe this is the partial Edgedancer in me talking haha).  As I noted above, I love how he makes sure that Kaladin isn’t alone when he’s having a depressive episode at the beginning of the book.  I’ve been where Kaladin is in that scene and Adolin doing his friend-thing is the exact type of thing that has helped me in real life.  The whole trial sequence is awesome (in sharp contrast to a trial scene that Brandon wrote at the end of a certain other fantasy series haha). 

 

Venli: Venli is a cool character with a good arc.  I didn’t feel particularly engaged by her flashbacks.  However, I loved every scene with Ulim as he’s a conniving and seductive bastard haha.  I did like how we learned more about Singer culture in Venli’s POVs (the stuff about the Fused and how their society is structured in particular).  I did like how her character worked towards one of the book’s main themes of freedom.

 

Navani: I really enjoyed her arc overall.  However, I did find myself almost glazing over some of the fabrial descriptions.  I like her relationship with Rabaniel a lot, but feel like they could have been less scenes together.  I initially didn’t want her to bond the Sibling (I like the idea of her being a non-Radiant main character), but I think how Brandon wrote it really works.  “Journey Before Destination, you bastard.” Is also one of the best one-liners in the series haha.

 

Other Plot Points/Random Thoughts

·        Taravangian becoming Odium might be the most crazy twist in the Stormlight Archive so far.  I literally sat I my bed saying “Oh. My. ****. God.” over and over again haha.   

·        The scene with Ishar was pretty insane.  I love how the scene demonstrates just how skilled the Heralds are at fighting by having one of the “average” ones just decimate several Radiants almost effortlessly.  Also, Ishar trying to transition spren into physical bodies is so messed up haha. 

·        Moash can go die a slower and even more painful death than before this book.  I love him as a foil to Kaladin, and think him killing Teft was a true representation of how far he’s fallen (even more than Elhokar or Roshone).  Some of Moash’s motivations were justified at one point- not anymore (I was always **** Moash, for the record).

·        The ten day deadline for the champion duel sets and interesting parameter on the structure of book 5.  Will the entirety of book 5 take place in ten days?  Or will the duel happen earlier in the book and result in some other plot point to be resolved by the end (effectively extending the book)?

·        We get four new Shard names in Harmony’s letter?!

·        We finally get Cultivation’s name!

·        All of the Dalinar scenes are great.  Brandon casually drops Nale into the battle after Taravangian’s betrayal was really cool.

·        Jasnah gives us the sequel to the Way of Kings philosophy lesson when she kills Ruthar.

·        Jasnah and Wit are a… couple (?) of sorts.

·        The Kaladin v. Zahel scene was great.

·        The Wit Epilogue:  So… either Todium played With or Wit played Toadium.  I’m sure someone more learned in this stuff than me could clarify this more haha.

Closing Thoughts: I’m sure my thoughts on the book will change in the next few years.  I felt engaged by all of the main character arcs, even though I don’t love Venli, and thought that there could have been less Navani POVs.  I think the book could have been shorter (I think some of the Kaladin and Navani POVs could have been cut/shortened once Urithiru was occupied), but I ultimately didn’t mind the length (this is my favorite book series after all, so I won’t complain about getting more story haha).  I liked that we didn’t have a massive battle sequence as the climax (although their was obviously plenty of action in Urithiru).  I’m so ready for book 5 and can’t wait to get Szeth flashbacks.  He and Kaladin going on the mission to Shinovar together is going to be awesome.    

Book Rankings After Finishing Rythym of War

1.      Words of Radiance

2.      Rythym of War

3.      Oathbringer

4.      The Way of Kings

 

Edited by Stormrunner1730
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Quote

·        The Wit Epilogue:  So… either Todium played With or Wit played Toadium.  I’m sure someone more learned in this stuff than me could clarify this more haha.

Yeah, people who are super into the lore and dissect all the text of that scene can expand "either Todium played Wit or Wit played Todium" into, like, ten paragraphs that reach the same conclusion :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I loved RoW. I still think Brandon is the best thing for fantasy since Tolkien. I particularly enjoyed he Raboniel/Navani dynamic, and the cosmere stuff. 

I've seen several people here commenting on the increase in cosmere crossover stuff in RoW. There are 2 things to keep in mind:

1. Brandon has said that one of the reasons he wrote the earlier cosmere series/novels as standalones was that publishers would not buy a 30+ book series from an unproven author, so he had to break it down into smaller series. But that shared world has always been the goal.

2. He has also stated that the core sequence of the cosmere, in chronological order, is Dragonsteel, Stormlight, and space-era Mistborn.

(Sorry I don't have sources for those at the moment.)

Since Brandon is now more established, and Stormlight is one of the core series of his giant crossover dream, I fully expect the amount of crossover in Stormlight and Mistborn to continue to increase. 

Overall, I was more satisfied with my initial read through of RoW than I was with OB or WoR. From personal experience I know that doesn't mean I will like it better in the long run, but for now I'm just going to enjoy it.

Compared to previous Stormlight books, I felt like the flashbacks in RoW were weaker, except for Eshonai's chapter at the end.  This didn't really bother me. As important as the flashbacks were in the first 3 novels for characterization, I actually never really enjoyed reading them. Too much angst. 

While I do appreciate what Brandon is trying to do with Kaladin and Shallan's mental health as a plot, I think it's getting a little old. I can only take so many 1000s of pages of stagnation on that front before it gets a little exasperating. Thankfully they both seemed to make progress by the end of the book, which is refreshing. As long as they don't slide right back in the next book.

RoW really drove home to me the fact that you can't just swear an oath to advance as a radiant. You have to live it, either by taking action to follow through or being in a situation where you come to an understanding. And this makes sense. For orders with standardized oaths, those oaths will become common knowledge after a while.  I did take the KR orders quiz, but I'm really curious to see what oaths resonate most with me, as we learn more of them. I'm not convinced they will 100% match my quiz results.

I found it interesting that so many of the bridgemen and Shallan's deserters became radiants. Seems like more of a right place right time kind of deal than carefully choosing the best fit. I suppose one could argue that the spren don't have time to be choosy. But I quite like it, as it implies that the spren are only "human."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, smokeesid said:

I have a question. In chapter 94 someone, either Maya or Adolin said, "Strength before weakness". Who was the one who said that. It was Adolin or Maya?

Maya begins to say it but struggles, then Adolin says it back to her. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just finished the book... 
 

extremely interested in finding out who the real treat is if it’s not odium as implied by cultivation’s interaction with taravangian/odium. Is Wit the actual over arching bad guy? So many cosmere questions soooo many. Great book especially for cosmere lore. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This book was a mixed bag for me. On the one hand there were massive highs a certain oath by Navani comes to mind!! The lows were massively impactful hitting where it hurts. Stormfather is Brandon able to push my buttons!! There were meh moments though that hurt the experience. Save for the last flashback with Eshonai the flashbacks fell flat for me. The lasting integrity arc was also was less than impressive. I like Adolin, but the arc did nothing for me. He was so protected by plot armor that it was disappointing. Some of those twists really got me. Vargodium is one scary concept!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. Just barely finished the book, so I want to post my reactions while they are fresh in my head. 

Parts one and two were ok. I felt like three and four dragged a little, but storms part five redeemed the whole thing.

The craziest parts were probably when  Sazed drops the names of four new shards, Felt says rusts, and when Taravangian kills Rayse. I honestly don’t know if this last one is a good or bad thing.

I think my favorite line was Navani’s:

Quote

Journey before destination b****rd

I think I am still in shock from the revelation that the good old survivor of Hathsin is freaking Thaidakar.

We also now know who Restares is, but that isn’t nearly as cool of a revelation as Thaidakar. I think it’s good that Shallan is no longer a Ghostblood (even though I know who is actually leading them). She seems to be improving. 

Kaladin got his plate! Hooray!

Flashbacks weren’t nearly as good as Oathbringer, but they were fine. I enjoyed them as much as Shallan’s.

well I have a ton more thoughts but this post is already long enough. 

 

(how many years until Stormlight 5?)

Edited by Mage
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I'll try to keep this as short as possible...

  • Raboniel is my favorite Cosmere antagonist now. She's amazing.
  • The whole Shadesmar arc was fantastic and very satisfying. Brandon really worked on making the place feel much more alive than it did in Oathbringer, and I loved how it all came together at the end. Definitely one of my favorite smaller arcs of the whole series.
  • I understand why there isn't a lot of Dalinar. I really enjoyed what we got though and the climax with Ishar was fun to read - especially how lost Dalinar was with an insane Szeth and an insane Herald battling.
  • The Urithiru story was good, but tiring. I think it's because they go through all of this pain with just the aim to regain what they already had at the start of the book. It's not as much about progress as it is about reversing regress. That kinda bothered me. (Edit: I am, of course, aware that they gain so much more, with the tower coming alive, the new Sibling Bondsmith and anti-Voidlight - but that's all things that happen at the end. The middle of the book felt like an immense uphill battle for a proportionally small award.)
  • Eshonai's last scene is one of my favorites in the entire series. The flashbacks overall were a good read, but ultimately rather pointless. That chapter however ... wow!!!
  • As a whole, this was basically the Stormlight book that wasn't really meant for me: I always thought that Venli was an uninteresting character, the fabrial mechanics descriptions are tedious, and Navani ... well, while I like her a lot as a person, I think she's kind of bland as a POV. At the same time my favorite non-main characters were nearly ignored (hardly any Szeth, but most of all, Renarin is hardly there!) ... So it was pretty much clear from the get-go that this wouldn't be my favorite. Most of it was very satisfying though, and I'm happy with the greater things that happened!
  • Now that we're at it - the T bomb was one of the most unbelievable scenes I've read in a long while. It felt completely surreal ... This can't be happening! I can't wait to see how book 5 will wrap this all up. (As a side-note: Taravangian being the actual main antagonist in hindsight makes so much sense, given that he was introduced in the first book and had POVs in every book after that. Rayse, on the other hand, always struck me as very tame and kinda boring as an antagonist. Now I know why - it wasn't ever about him! Which means that one of my main problems with Oathbringer - Rayse being kinda bland - doesn't have much weight anymore!)

Of course, there's much more to say about it. It's basically a bunch of books interwoven, as always. But I'll leave it at this for the moment. A lot of the other things have been said a few hundred times already, I'm sure (like how amazing the emotional moments in the last part were). All in all, my least favorite of the big books, but still great, and I'm satisfied with the larger developments of the main plot!

Edited by Elegy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-11-24 at 8:29 PM, Ookla the Mok Turtle Soup said:

I finally finished this last night at 1:30 am, and I have to say that Row is, without contest, my least favorite Stormlight Archive book. Bolded are my replies, thanks for speaking what I was thinking! I'm older, love sci-fi and good fantasy, and I love The Stormlight Archive in general. It's the only series I own in both formats, as I can't see most printed page anymore.

I'm halfway through Rhythm of War a second time, and kinda really hate it this go-round, too. I absolutely LOVED TWoK and WoR, not so much Oathbringer because Dalinar's endless battles bored me and the Stormfather's voice is super annoying on audio.  I do like Shallon, though not nearly like I did... the murderous thing. I'm not a fan of her D.I.D, noted down below.

I've never cared much for Navani, and honestly her "I'm no scholar" line was as tiring and fatiguing to read as Nynaeve's incessant braid tugging in The Wheel of Time, or Perrin perpetually explaining how this tricky situation is like a locksmith's puzzle. Me too.  Navani and 95% of Navani's fabrial stuff,  just made me sleepy. I keep falling asleep during her long, drawn out boring scenes.   She's not fleshed out as a character, she just does things, or has things happen to her, like her children and husband dying, or Jaznah coming back from the dead.  I'm an audio listener, and based on how much I disliked this book, I won't buy it in print.  I bought the first three in both formats because I wanted to see the illustrations.  It makes it a bit harder to use your imagination when you are an audio listener, but unfortunately print media is just beyond my eyes now.

Imagine my horror when I realized that a seemingly unique and interesting villain, Raboniel The Lady of Pain (or rebranded The Lady of Wishes), is really just a life coach for Navani. Rabonial was my favourite part of all Navani's scenes. I wanted to know more from her than we got.

Major Criticicisms: 

This book suffers most severely from an extreme lack of fantastical detail. Brandon is a great writer, but his strength is not in creating fantastical places. His default descriptions for architectural forms are boxy or box-like. The majority of the book took place in the mythical tower city of Urithiru, the Ancient Fortress of the Knights Radiant, and with the exception of the detail of the Atrium, it still feels like a largely unfleshed out space. It's basically a city, and in the book there were really only 8 locations, the atrium, the pillar room, Navani and Raboniel's study, Kaladin and Lirin's surgery room/house, the model tower room (which conveniently became the place for the father of renegade Windrunner and personal attendants of the Last Listener to tend to the comatose Radiants), the breakaway market, the conference room, the Oathgate Platform staging area, and the Teft and Kaladin hidey hole. Tashik in a short novella felt like a more fleshed out space than Urithiru has in 2 books!  You just described every problem I had with the city in general and these last 2 books specifically.  If you are going to build a world this detailed, and waste pages and pages on superfluous details and plots, then build that world and paint it for me, please. Show my mind's eye what it looks like. Good fiction allows us to envision exactly what the author envisions. This didn't work for me for this book. I envision a rather boring stone fortress because that's what we were told, aside from the pillar room.

Shadesmar continues to be underwhelming, so sad about this really, especially with the very nice Michael Whelan art. Most of the time in Shadesmar was spent on a "box-like" barge sailing over a uniformly boring sea of beads, or in the "boxy" fortress of Lasting Integrity, with the one concession to the fantastical setting being the MC. Eschcalators, walls that you can walk up. But then again there's nothing interesting described on the walls that make it worthwhile walking up, so yay for walking on walls. Also the trial takes place at the forum, but other than the detail that their is a seated section and a standing gallery you really aren't given any description of the setting. I was incredibly interested to see what one of the largest spren cities looked like and see some of the details of how living ideas live, but the honor spren were just props for Adolin's show trial.  Shadesmar should/could be so interesting, if what I asked above was done, describe that world and paint it, in this case black and white. 

That's one of my major complaints, this book more than any other in SLA has canned situations setup to showcase how wonderful the characters are. Characters constantly telling protagonists how amazing what they are doing is, this is basically the author trying to lead you to certain conclusions. Admittedly Adolin is very sweet to Maya, but I got tired of all the side characters gaping at what his deadeye could do. Bravo Adolin, bravo. Did you just crawl into my mind?

Here's my thoughts after reading this book- I lost some of my favourite characters, because they were delightful in audio version (and we lost the humour, too), that being of Rock and Lopen. I loved TWoKs just so much...I lost characters not to death, but to being cut out or forgotten about, all so I can care more for Navani and the Fused?  Where's Renarin? Where's Lopen? Rock? Where's the humour? 

My biggest beef with RoW though is how implausible everything is and how stupid the plans that the characters come up with are. Urithiru is occupied, yet Kaladin can still move around pretty much wherever he wants, he just has to be careful. Raboniel was spying on the communications between Navani and the Sibling, but respects Navani's privacy when she is communicating with Kaladin? Dabbid, because people think he's slow, can go wherever he wants with supplies, fabrials, etc. even to the routinely unoccupied portions of the tower. This seemed slightly plausible after the initial occupation, but with Urithiru controlling the Oathgates, Odium should have moved the majority of his forces to the tower, and with the renegade Radiant being Kaladin Storm blessed it seems like they would at the very least be watching Navani, her scholars and Kaladin's family to try and figure out his whereabouts, and have setup a better network of checkpoints. But Odium in this book (and in Oathbringer really) is a pretty seriously stupid bungler.

Then there's Venli. Voice to Leshwi, ok, kind of convenient but I'll buy that. Taken by Raboniel to the tower as her voice, hmm, less plausible but OK. Given essentially free reign, oversight of the recovering Knights Radiant, oversight of the traitorous Bridge 4 listener (who can likewise move around unimpeded), that stretches the skein of plausibility to the breaking point. Oh wait, here's a blank writ from The Lady of Wishes that she could maybe use to sneak the comatose Knights Radiant out of the tower with. Snap goes the skein of plausibility. Once again, the tower feels empty, not enough troops, and far too easy for Kaladin to traipze around in. It bothered me a lot that the big plan to with the baited trap of the Third shield node to kill Kaladin was to have the purser chase him, and then after he took out the completely locally undefended node, to trap him in the well with a bid a big lid that a bunch of singers sat on. That'll show him. Great plan guys. Yup, yup, and yup. It was so ridiculously implausible, I kept laughing, but not because it was funny. Brandon what are you thinking? Vasher/Zahel should have been in that tower too, and should have been remembered. If I remember he was there, the author should also remember that.

I love Brandon's magic systems, and I really like that there is a scientific basis for them, but I feel like he's moving away from the highly successful mistborn approach and early SLA approach, where the solid basis for the magic is built into the magic system and the use of the magic by the protagonist is described in a way that conveys the realism of the system. With RoW and especially with the explication of the metals that control fabrials, he's gotten bogged down in the minutiae of his wholly fictitious schema, in a manner that I find tedious and completely uninteresting. You can't theorize, you can only speculate about what the ramifications of revelation are. Not very satisfying. I guess I have to read Mistborn- I stopped halfway through the second book because I really didn't like Vin.  It might be an audiobook problem though, because if characters  are given an annoying voice, it makes them unlikeable- like Lift in Edgedancer. Adore the narrators, but sometimes I don't like their voice choices. Kate somehow got an English/British accent at one point...why? Then she lost it again.

The Singer Willshaper book had very little new information about the Singers or The Willshapers. We know 3 forms of power?? Raboniel attacked Kaladin with a knife twice, why not use her power of transformation? The Listeners were a tribal society before the humans found them? Disappointing, I was hoping we would get more about the history of the Listeners, more revelations in the Song of Secrets, more information about past desolation, but their culture was as developed as the interior of the tower or the city of lasting integrity, mostly empty. 

Now the plans, dear lord, the dumb, dumb plans. 

Adolin, I demand a trial by witness, I heard someone walking up a wall say that, that sounds good. He has no idea what this means when he demands it, his is coached by a spren he doesn't know in how to proceed to do this, and he doesn't even think to have Maya help in his defense. Dumb as a manifested brick. Someone somewhere had written back in WoR (I believe) that if characters just TALKED to each other, so much could be rectified. That was even more noticable here.  Everytime Adolin failed to say something, I wanted to throttle him.

The Honor Spren appoint Kelek, the mad Herald known for his indecisiveness, to be High Judge. And they let trained monkeys drive busses, and give swords to children, and have alcoholics tend bars, etc. etc. Makes you wonder if Ishar was just trying to figure out if the honor spren's brains were in their backsides. 

Contest of Champions, do wait, this thing that the Stormfather has been leading Dalinar to for the whole series really, is about who gets Alethkar and Herdaz or Dalinar's soul? Those are the terms for the winner. Oh yeah, either wsy Odium is confined to Roshar for 1000 years, and since to leave is all that Odium wants, then he really knocked that negotiation out of the park. Ishar should have checked where Rayse's brain was too. 

Dalinar's plan, I know, I'll visit Ishar the mad Herald to figure out what my power's are, you know, the guy that advised Nale to join Odium's side. Sheesh, Ishar should check where Dalinar's brain is. 

Hey, it's still a Stormlight Archive book, which means it's better than 93% of all the books ever written. Agreed.  I just have this sick, really bad feeling that all the character development and exposition in the early books might not be worth a tinker's damn, because in the end Roshar and humans might be destined to fall. Spectacularly, maybe within these next 10 days.  This is more noticable to me because I just did an "all out, every book" I had  and jumped right into this one. It felt like we were going backwards- with all our characters regressing.

Poor Kaladin and Shallon. We could have all done with less mental illness in those two, and maybe more good stuff? I deal with this in real life, not a fan of wading through it in my "fun" fictional life.   Kal's just painful to read, even when things are awesome for him, another shoe's going to drop. As an old psychiatric nurse, things really weren't covered the way they should have been, especially Shallon's Dissociative Identity Disorder. (it used to be called MPD back in my day.)  I get what Brandon's trying to do, but it's not done that well or right, and that includes Teft's addiction.

However, I'm thrilled that he doesn't write sex into his books like GRRM does, which is just cringey to listen to.  So thankful.

The Good Stuff:

Moash. Probably just because all of the other villains were so inept, Moash was truly great in this book.

He says he's going to break the node, he breaks the node. He said he's going to deal with Kaladin and he nearly does. He had a plan to break Kaladin and if the Pursuer hadn't tried to get his vengeance it probably would have worked. He sees Teft is trying to fight defensively, so he kills a Radiant to draw him out. He takes out lift, he takes out Teft. All to be unchained, all to give into Odium's lie. He says he's going to come back to kill Navani and he would have if Raboniel hadn't drlayed him. By far the most capable and thoroughly detestable of Odium's minions. The part were his connection to Odium was interrupted and he had to face the consequences of his actions was so good!  I cursed at Moash quite a bit, almost as much as at Taravangian this book. But you are right, if Moash/Vyre says he's going to do something, he does it. He's one of the few who does.

Kaladin finally swearing the 4th ideal. I would have been OK with him deciding the 4th ideal wasn't for him, but I'm so glad that he can move on from this. His compassion is what makes him truly great, but now he is giving others the freedom to do what they think is right too. Good character growth for one of the very best characters in fiction. I love Kaladin, and his vision with Tian is one of the times I teared up. But I was so. damn. weary of his constant uphill battle this book, when he swore the 4th ideal, I really didn't care much one way or the other. 

The Jasnah/Wit/Dalinar/Mink some of that storyline was unnecessary and I'm not even sure why it was there, or why they were where they were, other than to keep Dalinar away from Urithiru...Speaking of which...stupid man, could he not have had their contest transpire in 50 years or something, not in 10 freaking days? Like, get some more Radiants, Dalinar before battling Odium?

This is why I think we're in for bad in a really big way, hope I totally misread this. 10 days? Hmmm...not excited about the prospect.

When I was about 3/4 through the audiobook which is 57 + hours, I was absolutely weary and just wanted the book to be finished. That has never happened to me in any of Brandon's writing, in any of his worlds.   Oh- did we hear anything about Azure/Vivenna? I think I might be missing some chapters, hence the immediate relisten.  I still hate it.

It's still an uphill slog...I liked Part 1 the absolute best. My least favourite of the SA.

 

 

 

Edited by cvamoca
missing a few words.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll just note, that was my first post to this forum...I came to see if I was completely out to lunch and if anyone else felt deflated after reading this.  I won't live long enough to see the end of the Cosmere, or even to see the end of this entire series, but at this point I'm not that disappointed. My favourite writer just goofed and dropped a lead balloon that was supposed to be a book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, cvamoca said:

I'll just note, that was my first post to this forum...I came to see if I was completely out to lunch and if anyone else felt deflated after reading this.  I won't live long enough to see the end of the Cosmere, or even to see the end of this entire series, but at this point I'm not that disappointed. My favourite writer just goofed and dropped a lead balloon that was supposed to be a book.

Welcome to the shard! 

Nice analogy with the lead balloon by the way. 

The general consensus seems to be that most people like RoW. I too was a bit surprised by this, but everybody comes at this things from different angles and I guess what bothers me isn't so much of an issue to other people. 

I pre-ordered RoW, but I have yet to receive my book (crazy right?), so I listened to the audiobook instead of reading it my first time through like I normally do, and maybe that has something to do with why I liked it less. Kate Reading and Michael Kramer sounded a little tired or something, you could almost hear Kate's eyes glazing over when she was mentioning another facet of Voidlight/Towerlight/Anti-light, etc. 

I actually haven't liked much that Brandon's released from Skyward on, and funny enough I liked Dawnshard more than RoW, but Dawnshard is my second to least favorite SLA story. Again, the Akinah setting seemed underdeveloped. 

It is an interesting place to be in, not dying from anticipation for the next SLA book or not even really caring to speculate about what's going to happen in the next SLA book. I was all in before, but I think I might be drifting out. There's never been a better group of fans than those on the Shard, intelligent, creative and just marvelous people, but that's really all that's keeping me here. Just wait, Lost Metal will come out and I'll be an effusive fan boy again. Haha, could happen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ookla the Mok Turtle Soup said:

Kate Reading and Michael Kramer sounded a little tired or something, you could almost hear Kate's eyes glazing over when she was mentioning another facet of Voidlight/Towerlight/Anti-light, etc. 

I agree that listening to the Audio first was not a great idea. They just didn’t capture my attention.

Through OB, I had read the Print or E-Book version first and then got the audio afterwards just because I have never been a fan of their narration. I could not make it through ‘The Great Hunt’ when I got the Wheel of Time audiobooks and I think I bought and returned them all within 30 days.

Definitely skipping the SA audiobooks after RoW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm finally get around to posting my questions and musings about the book.  I finished it last week and felt like I needed a bit of time to digest it all.

Knowing that this was the fourth book of five in the set, my expectation going in was that some bad stuff was going to happen to set up for an exciting finale.  And I was not disappointed in this expectation to say the least haha!  At the end of part 2 when the Urithiru was captured and the resistance broken I was super anxious.  Needed to find somebody to talk to.  I had a similar feeling at the end of part 3 (I think that was when another one of the nodes was destroyed? I forget).  I think from all this anxiety filled build up for me, the last parts didn't totally make up for it and I wasn't as satisfied as I was reading.  However, during this week of thinking about the book, I have grown to appreciate and like the ending that much more.  I've started a reread and am excited to read it knowing the good that will come.

The whole book I was hoping that Rlain would become the Sibling Bondsmith.  I'd rather him be that than a c. Truthwatcher.  Hopefully this will be interesting.  I wasn't really wanting to see the Kholin family become even more essential and powerful.  Good for Navani though I guess.  She was and is likable.

I also wasn't certain if Kaladin was going to swear 4th oath this book.  I'm glad he did; this is the part I am most looking forward to rereading, because as I mentioned before, I was a little too anxious on first read.

Here are some questions that I had when I finished:

  • Did we ever find out who the spy was that the Sons of Honor had close to Dalinar?  I understand it was Radiant who killed Ialai, but I don't think Shallan was the actual spy for them, right?  Maybe I'm just off, but I don't think I understood that if it was the case.
  • Do we know why Kaladin is so highly invested?  Or any theories?  I thought this was interesting.  Why was he able to function in Urithiru when all other radiants were out?

Theories I had while reading, and now I know are wrong:

  • I thought for sure after part 2 and the following Vyre Interlude that it was foreshadowing Moash ascending to Odium.  I thought the power would want Moash as a vessel instead of Rayse.  I thought this would happen in part 5.  Then I read about Taravangian.  Crap.  

Theories I like that might be wrong, but only probably:

  • My theory is that Taravangian get's Nale to be his champion.  We see how good Ishar was as a fighter, and the Stormfather calls him average for a herald.  I would imagine that Nale would be one of the top herald fighters. Given that Nale is crazy and on Odiums side, seems like he would be by far the best fighter for his team.
  • That leads to my other theory, which is more likely to be wrong.  Taln as Dalinar's champion.  Who was the best fighter?  Taln.  Who can't go the whole 10 book series as being crazy? Taln.  Who is trying to restore his mind by going after Ishar? Dalinar.  Hopefully this happens soon (within 10 days!).  This would make me the most excited in book 5.  Big reason why this might not happen?  Dalinar has said he would be his own champion already and book 5 will be Dalinar intensive.  I can only hope this means it will focus on him and his powers as he prepares Taln to be his champion! haha

Just some crazy wondering:

  • Why no 17th shard since book 1 :(
  • Speaking of them, and knowing about Kelsier being Thaidakar (btw,!!!) wonder what Kelsier's relationship with Demoux is now.  I find this interesting because Demoux basically worshipped the Survivor.  Now he is in a seemingly opposing secret society.
  • No Thunderclasts.  Guess Odium really wasn't serious about winning.
  • Wonder where all the shardblades and shardplates that the Fused started hording went off to.  I can only guess these will be used in the Last 10 days.

 

Edited by Nuatoma
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nuatoma said:

Did we ever find out who the spy was that the Sons of Honor had close to Dalinar?  I understand it was Radiant who killed Ialai, but I don't think Shallan was the actual spy for them, right?  Maybe I'm just off, but I don't think I understood that if it was the case.

Mraize says in chapter 13: "The Sons of Honor don't have an agent close to Dalinar. They simply managed to intercept some communications from one of our agents who is close to Dalinar." So there's not really a Sons of Honor spy, but a Ghostblood spy. That one, on the other hand, was revealed, since it was a Sleepless working for the Ghostbloods that spied on Wit (as seen in the chapter that ends with him telling Jasnah about Thaidakar). How the Sons of Honor got the information out of that Sleepless is as of now unknown, I think.

1 hour ago, Nuatoma said:

No Thunderclasts.  Guess Odium really wasn't serious about winning.

I was also a bit disappointed about the lack of Thunderclasts and Unmade in this book, but honestly, it makes sense. In the battle of Thaylen, two major things happened: Nightblood killed a Thunderclast spren permanently and Dalinar trapped an Unmade (and threw it into the ocean afterwards, so I guess that counts as permanent as well). Odium just couldn't afford any other Unmade or Thunderclast spren to be taken from him, since there's so few of them. So he'd only use them when absolutely necessary. And it wasn't necessary in Rhythm of War: The war in Emul was just a distraction anyway, so no need for them, and Odium seemed to think (as indicated by Taravangian) that Nightblood was still in Urithiru, so using them there would have been a risk in his estimations. I think it makes sense that way, although I too expected more Unmade stuff after Oathbringer.

I'm sure TOdium will find good use for either in book 5 though :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is my first time posting and I like reading these forums to hear peoples ideas about plots, theories and little details that I may have missed in my own reading. That being said I literally felt the need to create an account just to say to the people who keep bashing on Sanderson's writing and the direction he is taking with his books, keep that crap to yourself. You are entitled to an opinion on what you would like to see for the books and the series, but your opinion does not matter more than anyone else's and the fact that many of you seem to think you can do better as far as plot, pacing, etc then go be a successful writer who completes multiple great books every year and doesn't make his fans wait decades for a series to finish. Sanderson spoils his fans by how fast he writes and while not every book he writes goes the direction that I would like to see it go they are all great books in m opinion, which again doesn't really mean anything lol. So quit posting super long threads like [redacted] did above complaining about a bunch of things that ultimately don't really matter to people who want to know more about SA or the Cosmere in general. Go create a site that is a I can do better than Brandon Sanderson forum.  This criticism will have no effect on how Brandon writes I am sure and it is just plain annoying having to skip over all of them trying to find good posts that I can learn something from. The end.

PS don't ban me for this. 

Edited by Chaos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/18/2020 at 5:32 PM, robardin said:

And yes, I was deeply moved (maybe even cried...) over:

  • Raboniel's immediate first use of anti-Voidlight... On her daughter
  • Mayalaran's "speech" to the honorspren
  • Teft's death scene
  • The SFTV (the Stormfather Channel) vision of Tien that helped Kaladin reach the Fourth Ideal
  • A dying Raboniel buying time for Navani, first to flee, and then to bond the Sibling (?!)

 

 

I cried at Teft dying.

 

I racked and sobbed when Dalinar said: "I AM CONNECTING HIM, UNITING HIM!"

Edited by stormlore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Laramie Shaffer said:

This is my first time posting and I like reading these forums to hear peoples ideas about plots, theories and little details that I may have missed in my own reading. That being said I literally felt the need to create an account just to say to the people who keep bashing on Sanderson's writing and the direction he is taking with his books, keep that crap to yourself. You are entitled to an opinion on what you would like to see for the books and the series, but your opinion does not matter more than anyone else's and the fact that many of you seem to think you can do better as far as plot, pacing, etc then go be a successful writer who completes multiple great books every year and doesn't make his fans wait decades for a series to finish. Sanderson spoils his fans by how fast he writes and while not every book he writes goes the direction that I would like to see it go they are all great books in m opinion, which again doesn't really mean anything lol. So quit posting super long threads like [redacted] did above complaining about a bunch of things that ultimately don't really matter to people who want to know more about SA or the Cosmere in general. Go create a site that is a I can do better than Brandon Sanderson forum.  This criticism will have no effect on how Brandon writes I am sure and it is just plain annoying having to skip over all of them trying to find good posts that I can learn something from. The end.

PS don't ban me for this. 

Hi! You won't be banned for this, but I do want to just say that it's important to give a space to people who dislike a book. This is fine; a book can't be everything to everyone, and people are bound to dislike a thing. People who like the book and people who don't like the book are welcome here. You may find later a book doesn't click with you either, and we want everyone to feel welcome here. They are entitled to post their opinion, and we don't need to put down people when we disagree with their preferences. Some people might feel very strongly about certain subjects, and that's okay, as long as they are respectful. We can be nice to people we disagree with here. 

Please check out our Code of Conduct: 

And indeed; Brandon writes the stories he wants to write. But realize some people just want to find like-minded people for support, and they are entitled to be here, same as you. It's perfectly fine for someone to dislike a piece of media you like, because people are different, and that's okay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...