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Rhythm of War Part Four Reactions

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11 hours ago, DeployParachute said:

Why does it seem, first in OB, and now I'm RoW, that so many revelations being delivered that should feel big, seem to be landing with an underwhelming thump.

I have felt the same way, specifically in Oathbringer when Elhokar died. Because I remembered hearing that *someone* was going to die. The scene was great, but I think it would have been *even better* if I hadn’t been looking for someone to die.

I honestly blame my time on these forums and listening to a bunch of cosmere podcasts for the lack of surprise.

But to be fair, there are plenty of things that surprised me in this book (and the last). Hobber’s healing, Dabbid’s chapter, PoVs from an Unmade and Chiri-Chiri in the interludes. I am still enjoying the whole ride.

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Haven’t finished part 4 or went through the other reactions, but Kaladin doing Schema therapy & realizing he has unrelenting standards is basically me this whole year in therapy <_< I could’ve saved a lot of money if this book came out earlier! 

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Haven’t finished reading part 4 yet. But just a thought: is Nightblood’s color/light the same light that Rabonial is seeking to create to destroy Odium? 

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15 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Adolin’s arc isn’t about him. It’s about Maya.

Agreed, and it has been part of my frustration over his character. He has no journey of his own, his role in the narrative has always been to facilitate the journeys of other characters. Shallan, Dalinar, Kaladin, Renarin, and now non-POV characters like Maya. All of these characters use Adolin as a fulcrum upon which to look inward and turn their perspectives around, or as a foundational stone to anchor themselves to so that they can confront their own issues or problems. I guess I just had hopes that this time, this book, Brandon would present Adolin in a way that would allow me to see him as more than just an instrument through which Brandon explores other characters, or to move plot forward. By the end of this part, Adolin to me has remained Brandon's tool. A well liked, feel good tool, but one that ultimately doesn't fail anybody, us readers included. 

Edited by DeployParachute
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Just now, DeployParachute said:

Agreed, and it has been part of my frustration over his character. He has no journey of his own, his role in the narrative has always been to facilitate the journeys of other characters. Shallan, Dalinar, Kaladin, Renarin, and now non-POV characters like Maya. All of these characters use Adolin as a fulcrum upon which to look inward and turn their perspectives around, or as a foundational stone to anchor themselves to so that they can confront their own issues or problems. I guess I just had hopes that this time, this book, Brandon would present Adolin in a way that would allow me to see him as more than just an instrument through which Brandon explores other characters. By the end of this part, Adolin to me has remained Brandon's tool. A well liked, feel good tool, but one that ultimately doesn't fail anybody, us readers included. 

But that is an arc. It’s just not a very relatable one for someone who isn’t in Adolin’s position.

I love that his arc is all about other people’s because you NEVER see that, but it is the reality when dealing with these situations. Our lives become defined by the people we care for. In their growth, we grow. In their triumph, we triumph.

Every choice I’ve made for the past almost-four years has been for/about my daughter. Adolin’s arc resonates with me because it embraces that truth. 

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Adolin is largely a static character. Characters don't need arcs or growth to be emotionally resonant or be part of plots. Adolin has almost always been static, with change coming in small increments. For me, Adolin worked better here than in any previous book, and I really liked him in the previous books.

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On 11/17/2020 at 9:08 PM, Kered said:

I can literally think of no other possibility. Scars, cognitive shadow and the Hoid bit. Unless this is a major misdirect by Brandon, I can't see it being anyone else. 

Only other ones I can think of is one of the Dakhor monks from Sel because they also scar themselves pretty heavily with all their mods and the name sounds similar, or a really screwy shad from Threnody but I think that last one is extremely unlikely.

Edited by Jescape
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Ok. Elhokar’s death? Threw the book across the room. Renarin giving Dalinar the bottle in OB? Heartbreaking. Dalinar not giving Odium his pain & Teft swearing the 3rd oath? Powerful. Shallan integrating Veil? Stopped my heart & gave me heart palpitations at the same time. Kaladin struggling with depession & suicidal thoughts? Really hard to read. But that little dog sitting in the rain while his words were being washed away? That really broke me and took out all of my tears. 
 

There were so many things in this part that are my favorite scenes from the whole series so far.


•The Dabbid POV was really special and once again I tip my imaginary hat off to Brandon for writing such diverse wonderful characters that don’t feel like tokens. 


•I loved that Navani finally accepted that she is a scholar & that came from the support of another woman, especially one that was an enemy. It’s such an interesting relationship the 2 have and I admit I didn’t expect Raboniel to pull me in & fool me so much as she did. Even though I knew this whole time what her intentions were, i couldn’t bring myself to despise/not care for her. It was a little frustrating though that Navani continued with her experiments while knowing she was giving Raboniel a weapon. These chapters still need to settle in a bit, as I still confused how I truly feel about them.

•Shallan finally integrating Veil was ... very emotional and it made me stop & put the book down several times. Veil asking if she did good, Shallan saying to Kelek that the person sending her thought she was much weaker.. oh.. I don’t know what will happen to her from here, but I sure hope she will let others love her.

Edited by mariapapadia
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I feel like ultimately, Part Four is about finding your voice.  We saw it with Maya, with Dabbid, and in a way, Venli.

That scene at the end, where Raboniel kills her daughter… was incredibly sad, and made awful, tragic sense.  She’s at peace, in the only way left to her.  I wonder if we’ll see that again, with other Fused.  I suspect that’s how the Pursuer is going out.

Wit is back at it again with his storytelling wisdom, and I love that part!  To quote my notes on that part, ‘trick him into self-love!’  I’d love to see that as a separate story, kind of like the way Sanderson has talked about making The Girl Who Looked Up it’s own story.  I think that this might be my favorite Wit story yet, it's the kind of story that really resonates with me.  And this:  “I am an artist,” Wit said.  “I should thank you not to demean me by insisting my art must be trying to accomplish something.” is incredibly relatable.

I don’t really have anything to say about Kaladin in this part - he did spend quite a bit of time unconscious after all.  But again, Wit’s story was amazing.  I hope they find Syl soon…

On to the last section: Shadesmar.  I wasn’t sure what I was expecting, but I was right - Shallan was the cause of the deadeye.  I wonder if we’ll see more about that later.  And chapter 93 was incredible.  I assume Veil’s gone?  She’s integrated into Shallan?  That makes the name ‘The Three’ defunct, since Formless wasn’t really an alter, it seems, and now there’s just two.

And Maya.  Oh my goodness.  I loved that part.  It was so powerful!  That’s about all I can say on it.

Put the next thing in a spoiler just in case.   

Spoiler

 I’ve got to admit, at this point, I think it's true - Kelsier is Thaidakar.  Are we going to get villain!Kelsier?

 On to Part Five and the Sanderlanche!  I'm absolutely terrified!

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I know this is not related much, but some of you may know of a tradition that goes around the Shard here, coming the 26th, when everyone will become “Ookla” in honor of someone’s birthday or whatnot.

In Nazh’s notes (I believe it’s him) before page 845, when he’s explaining the glyph of Roshar, at the very bottom right he mentions the next page was “how to swear like a Horneater,” then proceeded to say Oo’kali’laa’e! (Sound familiar?)

Someone tell me if I’m just grasping at straws here, or if I actually found something Brandon put in there.

Edited by Knight of Iron
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Interludes! Huh, looks like this book has tighter interludes than the preceding books. I rather enjoyed visiting other parts of Roshar in them. Szeth PoV, we'll finally see his Highspren. Heh, they really are a "personification of the Law, capitalized", perhaps they are spren of the kind of worldview that personifies a perfect Law, a creed to follow, kind of like a friggin' One Piece character, especially the Marines and their Justice. I can certainly see how they got the name "Highspren", geez. Szeth is... kind of dead inside and using Dalinar as a crutch to make choices. Oo, Szeth's dad Neturo also wields an Honorblade and was a shepherd (agriculture is considered a higher calling in Shinovar than warriors), so he's reasonably high-class.

Chiri-Chiri is a completely sapient being! The dead Lanceryn are warning her via Rhythms... how? 

Dawnshard spoilers

Spoiler

So the roar we heard from that room was from the dead Lanceryn?

Rysn confides in her Babsk, and then Chiri-Chiri speaks and gives her a heart attack.

Taravangian talks to Renarin. He had gotten Szeth's attention by asking for an Oathstone and tries to convince him to use Nightblood on Rayse in a Vision, bemoans that intelligent Taravangian does not understand people and that shows in his plans, then tries to convince Szeth to give the sword to Dalinar. But Szeth is just dead inside and paranoid.

 

Wow, Ulim is interesting as is hearing about Aharietiam & Taln, Ba-Ado-Mishram & the False Desolation, the Listeners from the other side's perspective. He's manipulating Venli with her ego, her fears and desires for her people, and heightened emotions of the new Rhythms from having a Voidspren in her Gemheart but not all of it is manipulation, which is why it worked. She wants to show the Listeners how far ahead the humans are in comparison to themselves to light a fire under them. The Everstorm is a sort of Perpendicularity via which the Voidspren are crossing over, and it sounds like it really is in the Nexus of Imagination (Ah, I just looked back at Nazh's map and saw that it was pointed out)

Venli, Lirin, Hesina & Rlain plot their escape, but are on different pages. Kaladin has become a symbol of hope to the humans of Urithiru. We get a better understanding of Lirin here, he's a cynical, defeated pacifist.

Part 4 epigraphs seem to be Taravangian. With Navani's discoveries in the next chapter, I'm sure that the previous epigraphs were from Raboniel.

We get Cultivation's Vessel's name! Koravellium Avast. It doesn't sound Rosharan, and Avast is the same suffix that Tanavast's name has. She Who Brings the Dews at Dawn is likely a title, not the meaning of her name.

The seasons of Shadesmar! That's interesting, they're based on the Rhythms too, ah the crystalline trees attract Lifespren too and shine to an unheard beat. Okay so Lasting Integrity is a hollow structure, with buildings and parks on the inside surface of the walls. So spren have access to the Surges that they give. Deadeyes are being drawn to the place at Adolin's trial approaches... The city is friggin cool, but we don't get any illustrations, which is appropriate as Shallan has withdrawn and isn't drawing. There are people from Nalthis here, and Shallan realizes that Azure was from here; and a Horneater tribe (might get covered in the Horneater novella). She finally fully acknowledges the existence of other worlds! Shallan has withdrawn, Formless is very close, Radiant and Veil are worried. Oh, Pattern was the spy after all but I'm sure he had a good reason to do what he did. Pattern wanted Shallan to meet some Cryptic Deadeye but Shallan refused, finally emerging after suppressing Radiant who had directly asked about her past again and directly asked Pattern if he had lied to her. A mysterious person named "Sixteen" who looks "Shin" hmm... that can't be Restares, I say that as a reader. Restares was from Roshar and 16 would refer to the Shards, nor would he draw that much obvious attention.

Ashynites sound like nuclear bomb survivors from Raboniel's accounts of the Shadowdays. Navani and Raboniel discuss the Rhythms of the Lights, and Navani realizes the Rhythms are the emulsifier. Towerlight is a harmony of Honor's stately tone and Cultivation's stark staccato tone that builds up. Tidbit: Lifelight is better for growing than Stormlight, makes sense, but it is the rarest of the Lights, it seems. Navani refutes that humans weren't children of Roshar, they've lived here for thousands of years and hears the Rhythms from the spheres. Navani and Raboniel join together in singing the Rhythms of Honor and Odium, joining Honor's orderly tones with Odium's which is chaotic but with a strange logic to it, and they harmonize it. And it is the Rhythm of War, corresponding to black-blue Light."War" is the not the name it's given but the name it simply has. That War is a mix of Honor and Odium makes sense because that is where wars come from: for honor and from hatred of others. Cultivation too would have belonged here, if she was just growth, because growth begets conflict from the need for more resources but she's not just growth. Raboniel thought Stormlight and Voidlight were each other's antithesis and that's how Odium killed Honor, but she also knew of Towerlight and hypothesized that if Stormlight and Voidlight could also be mixed like Stormlight and Lifelight could, she would know for sure. Navani realizes that Gavilar's sphere was anti-Voidlight. I'm pretty sure most of us thought Odium had a Dawnshard and he used that to Splinter Shards. Raboniel hypothesize that anti-Stormlight (or perhaps anti-Honor's-Rhythm) was used to Splinter his power. Navani realizes Gavilar was planning to kill Odium. Wow, that's too many signs that Rayse will be killed and/or Odium will be Splintered probably in Book 5. If either does happen, I'll be very happy as then the back half would be about defeating hatred itself not the big bad god of hatred.

The Rhythms might've been how Adonalsium commanded the Cosmere. Reminds me of Silmarillion! 

I thought the Rhythms might be able to disrupt the Vessel from accessing the Shard's power not shatter the Shard's power itself! 

That was a lot to take in!

Huh, this flashback chapter is set in the same time-frame as the prologue flashbacks of the first five Stormlight books, in the Kholinar palace. Axindweth was working with Ulim to smuggle in the Voidspren. She's a Worldhopper, huh and left the planet after someone revealed her to Gavilar, the Heralds Nale & Kelek? Restares? Can't be the 17th Shard or Khriss & Nazh... Felt maybe? Now that I think about it, Axindweth sounds like a Terris name... Shalash was here too, I'd forgotten, she'd destroyed her effigy and Kelek had mentioned her. Nale could see Ulim and followed him to find her! Hmm... splitting them apart just results in their essence reforming in Shadesmar later on, becoming a Deadeye is also going to prove reversible soon, is there a way for humans to kill spren at all? Hmm so Nale had apparently decided to switch sides even while he was working with the Sons of Honor? Or not. Huh, his appearance frightened Venli and convinced her fully that another Return / Desolation was on the way again, over her previous distrust of Ulim after he left her in the palace. She realized he was addled and tricked him that his (& the Sons of Honor's) actions caused enough of a Connection to form between the worlds to form a bridge. We do know that Gavilar could send things to and from Braize in the prologue. He told her that Gavilar was planning to betray the Listeners (for the Shards?... Because he knew what they were?) and told her about Szeth & Jezrien's Honorblade! Ulim realized the opportunity and went inside Venli's Gemheart, twisting her to start a war between humans and Listeners, to make them desperate enough to listen. So this is where it was all kick-started.

With the way Shallan's chapters are going, I think she's going to fully remember her past here, what with Restares, Ghostblood past, Formless). I'm not sure about reintegrating Veil and Radiant, but I'll miss them if that happens, as weird as that sounds when they're all the same people. Oh sweet Pattern. Huh, Wit helped him? With sharing info to the Ghostbloods? Definitely good reason then! Oh the Ghostbloods spied on him, that's how Mraize knew; Shallan in still skeptical but I believe him: he's Pattern! Wit was spied on and Pattern was talking with Wit. Shallan withdraws again, I was getting worried about Radiant and Veil after her last chapter, strange I was more worried about them than Shallan. But then who killed Ialai? Ah, Shallan asks the same questi... huh, it was Formless, wasn't it? Oo, Azure had visited Lasting Integrity, I was disappointed not to see or hear of her with Notum. So she left? Hmm... Is the cube an Aether? Huh, Jezrien's blade is with Moash, Nale's with him, Taln's is missing, the others were all supposed to still be in Shinovar but apparently aren't. Mraize thinks Restares is dangerous, huh.... wait a min, is Restares Kelek? He's short too and a Herald hence dangerous.

The judge for Adolin's case... is it an Inkspren? They want Adolin to represent himself and despite Adolin's wording pin the whole Recreance on him, which is just ridiculous! Huh, but Adolin's tutor is an Inkspren and she gives the same warning as Syl, that honor can be a matter of perception. She's very pragmatic, doesn't want to Bond, is more honest about the why: fear for her life and distrust after previous incident of the Recreance, nothing loftier about spren and human nature or out of grievance from the past, just caution. Oh no, the high judge is a spren, the high judge is a human... the high judge is The Judge, isn't it? It's Nale? Hfff it's "just" Restares, thank god! How did Restares get the respect of the Honorspren? Is he Kalak after all? Called it!

Seems I was wrong about this part's epigraphs, it's not written by Taravangian but Kalak.

Rlain deals with some peasants, it was exactly as stereotypical as it sounds. Ooh, they found some camps! The Listeners survived! (I'm taking this as confirmation) Noooooooo I need details! What happened when he took Mateform! Tell me! Lol, Rlain bemoans everyone's racism! Rlain meets Dabbid again, who must've been confused after the Sibling went quiet (and can I point out how icky it is that any Cognitive entity can just take advantage of mentally vulnerable people) Oh he's been taking care of Kal & Teft after the well, and Kal hasn't woken up from Vyre's visions.

Kal is tortured in Visions that resembles Braize. This and worse are what the Heralds had to endure for thousands of years. Wit pulls him out and puts up a little bubble of light as shelter for a time, a fire, and some stew and tells a story that he says he heard in an inn that can only be found by the lost. I love Wit's stories: Fleet, Wandersail, The Girl Who Looked Up, now The Dog And The Dragon. He seems to confirm that the Lanceryn are Yolish Dragons, their bodies are now canonically lined with Dragonsteel. Edit: apparently he wasn't referring to Chiri-Chiri the Larkin but to Koravellium Avast, the Vessel of Cultivation. He confirmed on Reddit that she's a Dragon. Ha! Wit is tired of Rosharan lack of fluffy animals. Kaladin still doesn't get it and thinks it's Shinovar. Ha! Wit's flute was with Lift last we saw in her interlude. His Cryptic, Design is adorable (are all Cryptics this adorable!?). Kaladin shows his Stoneward side. And Kaladin could also have been an Edgedancer, Brandon agrees. Kaladin's just that awesome. 

Poor Eshonai, she never even got to see the ocean... And so the War of Reckoning on the Shattered Plains began

Mraize wants Veil to trap Kalak's soul, like Jezrien's was. He said Thaidakar is also afflicted with the same condition as the Heralds... Thaidakar is Kelsier, isn't he? If she goes through with this, she could disguise herself as him with her Lightweaving and save Adolin and convince the Honorspren to join the coalition.

Did Venli just... casually harmonize the Rhythms of Odium and Cultivation... The stones remember how Urithiru was once the mountain Ur, and consider Odium as much a part of Roshar as Honor or Cultivation. Wow, Lirin is really trying very hard to make himself unlikable. Ooh, she finally frees Lift to heal Kaladin! Heh, I think I sense a Dabbid PoV coming.

Navani goes through with making her trap fabrials. She wants to create Anti-Voidlight, seeing the possibility of not just saving the Tower but killing Odium himself. The black-blue Light corresponding to the Rhythm of War is called Warlight. Raboniel shows her the metal they used for centuries to drain Radiants of Stormlight and after Ba-Ado-Mishram's fall realized that if spren could be captured in a gemstone then so can Heralds, so that dagger was made of this metal too. It's an Investiture conductor. It's not one of the Allomantic metals but Odium's godmetal Raysium! It's gold-white in colour. Navani discovers force multiplication of conjoined fabrials by moving the half a spren to a larger gemstone. They use White Sand to measure Investiture (wasn't there a WoB that Breath will be used as a unit of measurement for Investiture?).

Oh Dabbid was mentally handicapped way before the Bridgeruns. He took the fall for some Lighteyed woman's affair. He didn't speak because for the first time, he fit in, because they didn't think differently of him. I'm now extra mad at the Sibling for taking advantage if him. Lift healed Kal then Teft, they both finally woke up!

Flashbacks have reached Words of Radiance. A moment shared between sisters. Dammit, I feel so bad for Eshonai

Adolin's sham trial begins. Ah, the Sibling terminated the Bond early before the Recreance. Adolin justifies Kalak writing as a man with him being holier than an ardent *rolls eyes* Is he... writing the epigraphs? Ah, half the Inkspren died in the Recreance and the rest saw and survived, no wonder then... heh, Adolin's Inkspren law tutor, Blended, is equating being bound by one's words to honor and to her humans are still invaders after seven thousand years. It becomes clear, it's less a matter of honor, more of immediate self-preservation and a long, long memory for these spren. Hah! Well done, Notum. Shallan swipes a perfect gem. Ooh! The Ire's Investiture, Connection, Fortune juice holder tech!

What did Eshonai see? A Stormstrider? A Chasmfiend? Are the Stormstriders Chasmfiends or some other Greatshell? I think I recall a WoB that they were spren... Ah, Timbre!

Order upon chaos, seeing how things work, Navani's such a Dustbringer.

Raboniel and Navani measure static and kinetic Investiture with White Sand. They talk of other worlds, Navani gets it, that they are other planets. A storm bars the way to Braize / Damnation, which is barren, devoid of life, a dark sky from a thin atmosphere, stormy winds shaping the broken landscape and a lot of insane souls. Ooh, Raboniel knows a bit about electromagnetic fields. The Rhythm of War was written by Navani and Raboniel, together. Raboniel admits she's trying to turn the Sibling into one of the Unmade. (confirmation that all Unmade were unique spren). Raboniel's gift to Navani: a musical instrument. Cymatics... I don't get it.

Adolin had a good showing at the trial, pointing out the spren were as human as himself. Veil and Radiant outvote Shallan, Formless emerges! To fulfill Mraize's plans, kill Kalak and impersonate him... while in bed with Adolin, lol

Teft's right, they were finally on break! Ugh! Flip back into a coma... hmm... I'm assuming Lifelight is better at healing than Stormlight. Phendorana appears at the same size as a human, interesting, she's been good for Teft. How did the Envisagers know that much? This smells like a set-up. Rather than break, Kaladin has been tempered, yet again.

Huh... Heralds if captured in a gem, lose Connection to the Physical or Spiritual via the Oathpact bond and with Honor Splintered, they degrade into ordinary souls and pass on into the Beyond. So Jezrien is dead by accident.

We finally get the answer for a minor question: what's Relayform. Raboniel and Venli talk about serving Odium and why they fight. I like the Fused's interpretation of Odium as Passion, though Rayse can never embody that, as has become obvious over the course of this book. Raboniel's gift to Venli: a map of the Shattered Plains with the surviving Listeners' campsite marked.

Shallan (the aspect, well... person too technically, oh you get the point) became Formless, locked Radiant and Veil away, but the latter could still speak. Adolin philosophises on the concept of weakness (I really wish he'd learn to read, he'd enjoy it immensely). I wonder how Shallan's Spiritweb reflects her personas (like could you Hemalurgically exorcise them, how do they compare with Soulstamps) Veil says Formless isn't a new persona (so she was created in Shallan's childhood! Did Formless kill Ialai?) Veil calls "Formless" Shallan, and previously it was implied that Formless was male so... hmm... this isn't the real Formless. Oi! Don't be mean to Pattern! Pattern tells her what Hoid told him to tell her, that she is loved and that she deserves to be loved. Radiant killed Ialai! To protect Shallan from having to do it, when she saw Veil preparing the poisoned needle. Veil confronts Shallan, telling her that she's afraid that everyone will leave her if they really knew her, so she's leaving them first. She's seeking an out from her life. If she becomes who her darkest mind tells her she is then it'll all be over. She repeats what Adolin said about strength and weakness, that weaknesses make people stronger. Veil reveals her purpose: to be the veil to block Shallan's memories. Veil unveils some of Shallan's memories... with a different Cryptic! Shallan tries to escape even harder, but Radiant tells her strength before weakness, and Shallan sees herself turning her previous Cryptic into a Deadeyes. Goodbye, Veil... Shallan tells Kalak she was there to kill him but she won't. Sekeir puts Kalak into isolation seeing his disposition change-

-and takes his place as the judge and puts himself into the crempile of most despicable characters in Stormlight, by bringing Maya to manipulate Adolin and the audience. But Maya spoke, shocking them into silence and revealed that the Recreance was planned together by the Radiants and their spren. The Inkspren revealed she wanted to know the truth of the Recreance and arranged this. The Recreance spren did not know the result of breaking Oaths.

The epigraphs have reached the end of Words of Radiance, into the Everstorm. Venli admits her weakness. That was a lot of emotional manipulation by Odium though, a lot more than I thought would be. She's far from innocent but she was twisted

Venli helps but ultimately decides to use the Radiant break to escape the Tower, the survival of the Listeners pushing her back into putting herself first, or perhaps an excuse but not one that's completely false

Huh, Kalak pleads in his writings to free Mishram having known imprisonment himself and her having been vital to Roshar

Navani uses the math of music from the cymatics to search for the opposite of Voidlight's music, with the idea of polarity. She found the Rhythm of anti-Odium! Anyone can use the plate because it was created with Intent but to hum it, one needs Intent and knowledge of what they're doing. The Rhythm hurts Raboniel to hear. Navani uses a vacuum tube to separate some Voidlight, to isolate it from the Rhythms of Roshar so she can reverse its polarity. The Rhythms are not part of the Investiture itself, they hear it from the Shard. The Rhythms are how Investiture is Commanded. And she just created anti-Voidlight. The two Rhythms sound the same to humans but Listeners and/or Fused can tell the other is unnatural. Navani left, hoping Raboniel would blow herself up by trying to inject Voidlight into the anti-Voidlight sphere and she does! But she survives. Raboniel flips the Raysium of her second non-blown-up dagger so it injects Investiture instead of sucking it out, fills it with anti-Voidlight and kills her daughter with it. (...so is Nightblood made of anti-Investiture?) Raboniel reveals the extent of her manipulation and why she was seeking anti-Light, now she'll look to create anti-Stormlight and kill the Radiants' spren. 

 

That. Was. AAAAAWWWEEEEESSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOME! Absolute whirlwind! Who said this book doesn't have a Sanderlanche?! This book has multiple Sanderlanches!

Edited by Honorless
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Did anyone else notice Kalak said Hell at one point? I'm guessing it's because he's a Herald originally from Ashyn but it gives some insight that the people of Ashyn, or the original humans who navigated to Roshar believed in Hell.

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37 minutes ago, Zurvanite said:

Did anyone else notice Kalak said Hell at one point? I'm guessing it's because he's a Herald originally from Ashyn but it gives some insight that the people of Ashyn, or the original humans who navigated to Roshar believed in Hell.

That might be part of the 'Cosmere books are translated to English so words are the closest Earth equivalent', but you raise a valid point.

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3 minutes ago, Spren of Kindness said:

That might be part of the 'Cosmere books are translated to English so words are the closest Earth equivalent', but you raise a valid point.

You may be right. I only say that because I don't think I have ever heard another Cosmere character say Hell before, but I could be wrong, of course. Here's an example of how Kalak used it because I can't remember the actual line: "Hell, I might be thinking too hard about this."

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6 hours ago, Zurvanite said:

You may be right. I only say that because I don't think I have ever heard another Cosmere character say Hell before, but I could be wrong, of course. Here's an example of how Kalak used it because I can't remember the actual line: "Hell, I might be thinking too hard about this."

Hel, Hell, Hela, etc. was an ancient Norse deity. There’s no reason there should be a Hell of any kind in any universe where Earth doesn’t exist. It was probably supposed to be ‘Damnation’ and is a typo.

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20 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Hel, Hell, Hela, etc. was an ancient Norse deity. There’s no reason there should be a Hell of any kind in any universe where Earth doesn’t exist. It was probably supposed to be ‘Damnation’ and is a typo.

The Heralds in present time don't say Damnation because they know it as Braize. So I feel Kalak wouldn't use that term. But I agree it's probably a typo.

Edited by Zurvanite
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Hope I’m not posting this in the wrong section, but here are just a couple of my impressions of RoW:

Kaladin fighting the Pursuer in the Atrium after he went berserker was AWESOME!

The Spren choosing along with their Radiants to break their nahel bonds, WOW!!!

It seems like Taravangian struck a significant blow against Wit, but I believe Wit’s flute that he gave to Kaladin miraculously coming back into his possession might be key to remedying that.

Moash is still trash and I want Kaladin to tear his head off too.

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On 11/19/2020 at 7:33 PM, DeployParachute said:

Brandon wrote a very specific kind of relationship between Adolin and Maya, from which you were able to derive a deep appreciation and sense of gratitude from for it's representation. While I don't consider these interactions to be a character arc for Adolin, that does not mean that the contain no meaning or value for anyone, myself included. Adolin's personality and positive interactions make me feel good, but since that is all that I get from him, it makes him a less interesting character to me.   

The last thing I'll say in this, because I think it is important. I'm simply expressing my opinion on Adolin the character, and that opinion does not negate the personal experience and satisfaction you've taken from those chapters. I am grateful to have learned through you that there were other ways of appreciating these scenes than I had considered before. I can only promise that I will remember this interaction should I encounter a similarly situated family in my own life, and not add to the problems they may be facing that are similar to yours.

Have you ever listened to Writing Excuses?  Brandon & co. have talked in the past about the difference between an epic hero and an iconic hero: an epic hero is the standard kind of character who has to grow and overcome personal challenges in their arc, while an iconic hero is one who has very little need to change.  They're already exactly who the plot needs them to be from the beginning, so their "arc" is about influencing the people around them and helping to bring change to them.  From James Bond to Nancy Drew to Sergeant Schlock, iconic heroes abound in fiction, and it kinda feels like Adolin is being deliberately written as one.

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2 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

Have you ever listened to Writing Excuses?  Brandon & co. have talked in the past about the difference between an epic hero and an iconic hero: an epic hero is the standard kind of character who has to grow and overcome personal challenges in their arc, while an iconic hero is one who has very little need to change.  They're already exactly who the plot needs them to be from the beginning, so their "arc" is about influencing the people around them and helping to bring change to them.  From James Bond to Nancy Drew to Sergeant Schlock, iconic heroes abound in fiction, and it kinda feels like Adolin is being deliberately written as one.

Adolin is actually a character in the wrong genre. He’s a Corinthian, and it’s rare you’ll find that type of character outside of Regency period stories.

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Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said:

He’s a Corinthian

I'm not familiar with the term.  Context?

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1 minute ago, Mason Wheeler said:

I'm not familiar with the term.  Context?

It’s a type of character seen in Regency stories. Very well dressed, but not dandies, and very into sport, but not to the extent of ... a group whose name I’m forgetting. They actually existed IRL, but the character archetype is based more Georgette Heyer’s writing than the RL versions.

Since SA is not a Regency Romance, Adolin stands out as being the type of character who usually wouldn’t be in this genre. I don’t think I’ve seen a Corinthian played so straight outside the Regency before, actually.

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Szeth Interlude:

A good reminder that shinovar has many earth animals in it.
Szeth's family were given to the Honorblades? They were all given to it, not just Szeth himself? It appears this was before he was made Truthless. What happened to give his whole family to be 'subtractors'? I guess we'll find out in Book 5.
Szeth's father, Neturo is a bearer of an Honorblade!
Szeth has a sister! And his mother along with the rest are all alive!

Nightblood is trying to understand happiness! Yay! Szeth fears that he would destroy the happiness of Gavinor?

It is understandable that swearing an ideal to a person could lead to uncertainty, as people are not as unswerving as laws.

Szeth's Highspren! Szeth immediately places down Nightblood, the highspren doesn't like being near Nightblood?

The highspren treats Szeth as an acolyte. I guess as it is old and has had many Radiants since the Recreance, it has had sapience the whole time and traditions have been unbroken since then too. Even Szeth doesn't know the highspren's name? How little do they communicate? I don't think it could shift back into Shadesmar on its own as it is bonded to Szeth in the Physical Realm.

Szeth is an unreliable narrator of his past to even his highspren? It wants the truth! I wonder if Szeth has ever summoned his highspren as a blade. The fact that it is always invisible judging his worthiness must be intense, but since Szeth is intense too, so I think he's fine.

Gavinor doesn't fear Szeth! Yay! Taravangian wants an Oathstone! Is he going to convince Szeth that he is actually Truthless, yet again?


Chiri-Chiri Interlude!

She is even more intelligent than I thought! Does she hear the Rhythms of Roshar?
Chiri-Chiri considers Aimia her homeland.
Vstim knows about the Sleepless now.
The spirits of the dead Lanceryn communicate to her? Through the Rhythms? And now Rysn is looking to progress along her own path!

Aww, Vstim considered Rysn his most promising apprentice!

Rysn must have told Vstim about the Dawnshard! Since she says not even to tell the Queen.

Chiri-Chiri can talk! YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
No wonder the Sleepless knew about the Dawnshards and the history of the Lanceryn properly, they could communicate!!!

Taravangian Interlude:

Taravangian is hella dumb today! It's been a while since we've had a POV of that.
Szeth could potentially harm Odium with Nightblood!

Taravangian trying to not be the cold manipulator but truly asking and being open pulls at my heartstrings a little bit. He wants to be different now! Since being cold didn't work out the best it could.

Koravellium Avast, She Who Brings the Dews At Dawn! Is that one of Cultivation's Names? Is she non-human? Possibly fain or dragon?

Chapter 73:

Wow Ulim is really manipulating Venli with ease. I wonder if his existence in her gemheart, though she is still wearing workform, is affecting her mindset like all forms do.
I think Ulim is acting like how Timbre acts for her later on. Venli likely has a gravitationspren in her gemheart, allowing her to attune the old Rhythms, however Ulim holds the gravitationspren hostage, allowing her to attune Odium's Rhythms.

We knew Taln was still holding strong until only about 2 years ago but still having that was interesting.
The Everstorm has been around in Shadesmar for centuries. Truly 'old of design'!
They need someone on the Physical Realm in the ocean to pull voidspren from the Everstorm in Shadesmar into the Physical Realm and then transport them physically to the Shattered Plains? Does this mean that voidspren had already left Braize inside of the Everstorm that is now on Roshar? Or is the Everstorm still in Braize's subastral and they physically bring the gemstones through space to Roshar? Unlikely.
Did Axindweth do this?

Venli's mind going fuzzy when thinking of Ulim manipulating people? Ha! He's definitely affecting her mindset.

Ulim glosses over the Fused losing in at least 20 desolations haha! Blames it on the last one.

It's cool that the Unmade were fighting on their own. Go Ba-Ado-Mishram!

In the previous desolations it appears there were far few forms of Power, mostly just singers and Fused.

Ulim has agents among the humans! Who?

Chapter 75:

Adolin is attracting the deadeyes!
Lasting Integrity has cool gravity fields!

Nalthian humans! A caravan of them! And Radiant having difficulty with the concept of it

A clan of Horneaters! Living in Shadesmar!

I bet 16 isn't Restares, but someone even more confusing!

Pattern brought a spren out to see Shallan! A deadeye! Her old spren?

Poor Shallan is smothering the others and is more bloodthirsty as heck. She isn't thinking straight!

Chapter 76:

If Raboniel has been listening in on Navani's conversations with The Sibling, shouldn't she know where Kaladin is? Or where they placed the fabrial for him to use? Wouldn't she have gone to search the 11th floor as he mentioned where he is? Or can Raboniel only listen to conversations with The Sibling directly, not any between two humans?

Voidspren were bleeding onto Roshar early! Is this due to the weakening of the Oathpact and Taln's weakening resolve?

Gavilar had Anti-Voidlight for so long! And he was trying to bring the Desolation so he could kill Odium?

Chapter 77:
Axindweth is Ulim's continued contact! Who is she? I wonder how they formed the contact. Did she happen to be travelling the Cognitive Realm and pass by Braize?

Axindweth found the Kholin House Steward? And then fled?

Wow, Nale gave them everything to kill Gavilar! He also gets the proper authority to become a deputy in every country, I think that's hilariously good preparation. He'd been tracking Szeth already!
At least now we know that Gavilar was planning to betray the Singers, so I've lost my bad feelings regarding his death. It was kill or be killed for them. Gavilar had been planning to bring the Fused back so he could kill them?

Chapter 78:

Wit helped Pattern to communicate with Mraize?
Wit has a cube too? That means he knows that Shallan is part of the Ghostbloods! The Sleepless following Hoid was one of the Ghostbloods!
Also, these cubes are probably Seons kept in containers. The voice mentions that 'I know that man /name' before they're connected together.

The spy was the Sleepless!

Vivenna spent several months in Lasting Integrity! She went on her way to Cultivation's Perpendicularity 5 months ago!

Restares is dangerous enough to be near the most dangerous being on this planet?

What is The Stone of Ten Dawns? It rings a bell, has it been mentioned in previous books?

I bet the High Judge is Nale.

So the High Judge is Kalak! That's where he's been all this time! And he's the head of the Sons of Honor! No wonder Gavilar managed to get in contact with Heralds. He's been wanting to get out of the Oathpact and/or the Rosharan system (he said "I want out" during the Navani prologue) . I wonder why the Sons of Honor aimed to bring back the Desolations in order to bring back the Heralds, when Kalak was the head the whole time? Was it perhaps a lie to push them in the direction of Realmatic exploration while covering his true aim of leaving?

Chapter 79:

The epigraph sounds like it's from Kalak's perspective, is this a different in-world book or Letter from Rhythm of War now?

Is Rhythm of War a combined written book by Navani and Raboniel? Or Raboniel and Taravangian?

Poor Rlain. Also I'd love to know what happened with his mateform attempts

Chapter 80:

Poor Kaladin. He's going through such horrendous s**t it pains me to read it. This man has a disgusting level of resolve and is just getting beaten more and more and more!

What the heck it's WIT??? At first I thought it would be Syl to help him, but then I thought 'Will Brandon go darker and have the figure be Moash just to ruin things even more?'. But WIT? Of course he'll be here to try and push Kaladin to the next oath. He's done it each time!

Wit talks about electricity! Which places in the Cosmere have electricity at this point? It begins to exist on Scadrial around this point. Perhaps Ashyn or other planets do?

How is Wit able to invade dreams like Lift does?

I can't believe someone finally asked Wit for a story! Kaladin knows that the stories help him when he's in dark times.

We get to see Wit's Cryptic! Wooo!

Lol Wit is dissing Roshar!

Did Wit summon Frost as a lightweaving? Also, is Cultivation a dragon?? He says he knows of one on Roshar who hides their true form! Koravellium Avast sounds like it could be a dragon's name.

Design is Wit's cryptic! And someone who annoys Wit? That's perfect! She's Wit's Wit!

Is Wit the dog?

AHAHAHAHA Design is the worst Cryptic for Wit! I LOVE this! AHAHAHA

The voice acting for this is THE BEST! Wit is sooo pissed off! Thank you Michael Kramer!

Cryptic doesn't get Journey Before Destination at all!

Gosh Wit really is loving being able to lightweave using the Rosharan variety

Wit and Rayse have an agreement of non-intervention?

Chapter 81:

These flashbacks are making Venli look real bad. It feels like war was inevitable however and Venli's work did save the Listeners from dying immediately without warform

Chapter 82:

I don't like this turn of events for Shallan. Will she ever tell Adolin what she's doing/done? And we still don't know her past!

Chapter 83:
Venli is seeing more of her past! And she might be able to make CultiOdiumlight! VengeanceLight? Needs a better name.

Chapter 84:

Epigraph: Hoid tried to help the Heralds to keep sane!

So it is Raysium! A conductor of investiture! I wonder what/where the source is. Perhaps a special song? Like the song of prayers to get voidlight?

Oh snap force multiplication!

They're using the sand from Taldain!

Navani accepted being called a scholar!

I wonder why Progression works when Abrasion doesn't. Perhaps because Lift is more skilled with it than Abrasion

Yay Lift can heal the Radiants! I wonder what happened to the third Truthwatcher? Perhaps they went to war? Or are unconscious too?

Chapter 87:

The spren can hear a kind of rhythm on the energetic day!

The spren believe that the Singers betrayed the spren! The Singers believe that the spren betrayed them! I wonder what happened!

The Ire are of course the best at storing and bringing investiture across Shadesmar


Chapter 88:

It's really cool how the Singers can form songs with each other using the Rhythms . I would also like to remember that even though they can hear the Rhythms, singing is still a skill to be trained and each person is not immediately a maestro. Some will be better at singing than others.

Eshonai and Timbre's first meeting!
Timbre must have had a really bad time grieving the death of Eshonai on her own in the chasms with Eshonai's corpse. :(

Chapter 89:

All these epigraphs from Kelek's point of view make me think that he got captured in a gem and was interrogated / interviewed later.

So now we know what the Rhythm of War book is. It's Navani and Raboniel's shared notebook!

So there is a separate storm that protects one from accessing / leaving Braize! That might be the storm Odium had to move nearer to Roshar so that voidspren could leave

Wow that really is an honour to be named Voice of Lights. Go Navani!

Chapter 90:
Kalak could see it coming that he'd be captured in a gem?

I think it's really interesting how the more strict faction is silencing the more forgiving honorspren. I love that Adolin called the Honorspren out on their crap.

Oh s**t. Formless is here and it's in control!


Chapter 91: Worth Saving

I like this new Teft who isn't so down on himself

I really love this new Teft! He's made so much progress!

I really like how Dalinar's phrase: "The next step" is getting popular along many people!


Chapter 92:

There were many different Singers who tried to leave the rule of the Fused!

Yay! The other Listeners survived! I hope Venli helps our Radiants out before she leaves.

Chapter 93: Strong Enough

Holy cow, Shallan really did kill her first Pattern. Those were her crimes that she assumed everyone would hate her for. She killed part of her very own soul. Poor girl. 8 years old is so young! She didn't know what she was doing! My poor heart!

So Formless was Shallan the whole time. Even though I don't have the same feelings Brandon can really make one empathise with how she acts here, hiding behind another face to because she assumes she's as bad as she fears others thinks she is.

"I'm your Veil, Shallan" MY HEART! GOSH! Brandon you've been planning this for a decade!

"Did I do good?" MY HEART!

And now the Honorspren really are going full dictatorship. Now that Kelek isn't behaving as they want, they 'sequester' him.

Chapter 94: Sacrifice

Epigraph: Kelek was there at Ba-Ado-Mishram's capture! He knows what Melishi did and the truth of why the Radiants broke their oaths!

Maya SPOKE! And they knew what they were doing when the Radiants broke their oaths! What could it have been? It may have been the dangers of Surgebinding, or it could have been something else. Something to do with Ba-Ado-Mishram's inprisonment? Perhaps it was the only way to end the False Desolation? Gosh, more questions have been raised!

Why did the Skybreakers not break their oaths then? Why did they remain, but in secret? Did they really spend 4,000 years killing all nascient surgebinders? Does Nale even know why the Recreance happened?

I'm glad that this doesn't make Adolin a Radiant but it makes him incredibly important! Maya is a very incredible witness too!

Chapter 95:

Gosh Venli was not a good person and still isn't much of a good person. These flashback chapters paint her in an even worse light than we thought.

Chapter 96: A Thousand Lies

Gosh Venli is so selfish! She's so well written it's frustrating! Rlain sees this but he can't stop her. I wonder when she'll let the Reachers bond her squires

Chapter 97: Freedom

Epigraph: Ba-Ado-Mishram should be released? He refers to her as Mishram! She's so well connected to Roshar, I wonder what would happen if she was released? They'd release the Tower's Rhythm? And heal spren? Perhaps her capture affected the Nahel bonds and that's why the Recreance happened? I wonder where her prison is.

Oh snap, one can repolarise light based on the tones it hears!

It's cool that we get official confirmation of Investiture being a different axis on the matter-energy-investiture graph.

Raysium has a directional polarity! It can move investiture in a particular direction!

Oh Raboniel. She just wanted to put her daughter out of her misery!

This is how one can kill Fused permanently! Not even putting them in gemstones.

Raboniel just keeps on lying about working together. I would've hoped that a being of Odium would hold promises in Spirit like Odium does, but of course that's not something that's intrinsic to the Splinters of Odium. Heck it's not even that of Honor (the Lightweavers for example can break promises), but of course the Radiants are a mix of Honor and Cultivation

Now that there's an Anti-Voidlight, there's an anti-Stormlight to come. I feel like any lesser Fused would have had Navani killed at that moment to keep the secret one-sided, however Raboniel knows her potential is even greater than just that.

Immortal beings are no longer mortal! But the Fused have Raysium, not Radiants. How would they utilise it?

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It took me surprisingly long to get to this point, but the 'lanche has definitely begun.

Interludes 6-9

Szeth

- Interesting things about Szeth's past. Family of shepherds.
- His family "was given *to* the Honorblades"? What does that mean? His father was also trained to kill (with the Blades?).
- Highspren freak me out. This one sounds as mad as Nale.

Chiri-Chiri

- the interlude viewpoints in this book are incredible
- Chiri-Chiri is learning to speak!

Taravangian

- poor Taravangian
- poor Szeth
- so Taravangian had another reasonably smart day when he asked for the Oathstone and made some new plans

Part 4

Notes on phonemes in glyphs

- Whoa that's quite the bombshell for a random note on phonemes: Cultivation's vessel! :o Koravellium Avast. Is it coincidence that it also ends in "avast"? Is Tanavast short for something similar?

Chapter 73

- Hmmm, who are Odium's agents at Gavilar's court? I suppose there's that Terriswoman. Maybe also the Terris steward who got killed in the Lift interlude?

Chapter 74

- news epigraph mystery! Sibling? Taravangian?
- another new rhythm. I think that's happened before in this book?

Chapter 75

- epigraph still sounds like Taravangian
- huh, weird gravity inside Lasting Integrity. I wonder if gravity in Shadesmar is just a perception thing or whether Lasting Integrity has some Lashings going on
- the lifespren behaviour seems important. This would be out on the ocean. Maybe santhids?
- the deadeyes. My first thought was that these were the missing Shardblades, but apparently at least some of them are in use.
- Sixteen is absolutely a worldhopper. I feel like we should be able to work out more about him. Sixteen suggests either a relation to the shards or to Preservation specifically. Seems to neither need food nor bathe. A cognitive shadow?
- Lots of evidence for the theory that the earlier deadeye was Shallan's first spren and Pattern replaced her.
- but what the storm is going on with Shallan (and Veil) now?
- Pattern actually seems well-meaning

Chapter 76

- Epigraph doesn't really sound that much like Taravangian now. My money is on a Herald now.
- lol, I didn't remember burgundy being one of the Rosharan wine colours. That's hilarious.
- what an epic chapter
- so the Rhythm of War is indeed the combination of Honor's and Odium's rhythms. I wonder whether the rhythm of the tower has another name. And what do you get from Odium and Cultivation? Or all three?
- this makes it seem increasingly likely that the chapter 3 epigraphs were written by Navani and Raboniel after all
- it had never occurred to me that the singers' ability to hear the rhythms might be purely physiological.
- and there's still the fact that some form of antimatter light exists
- do non-Rosharan Shards have Light? Or is Light just how Investiture manifests on Roshar?
- or the other way round: does Investiture from other Shards, away from Roshar, respond to tones and rhythms? It seems that something about the tones changed when Odium arrived, so this might just be specific to Roshar.

Chapter 77

- the other of her kind is probably the steward Mraize killed later on. Who was *he* working for?
- Huh, so *Nale* led her to Szeth and was already keeping an eye on him back then. And the Oathstone had belonged to an old friend of his?
- a little weird that the prologue said "7 years ago" and this chapter said "7.5 years ago"? I didn't think that much time had passed in the main story, though I guess those numbers might be rounded.

Chapter 78

- that's a neat resolution to the Pattern "betrayal"
- but yeah then there's still someone who killed Ialai and that might still be a persona of Shallan's
- the Stone of Ten Dawns? That thing is totally real and will be the plot (and maybe title) of a future book.
- oh wow, Restares = Kalak. I guess some people must've figured that out what with Kalak being present at Gavilar's feast?

Chapter 79

- and Kalak is the author of the epigraphs! My latest guess was right. :)
- that caravan on the Shattered Plains must be the missing listeners!

Chapter 80

- dog/dragon? xD ... This chapter will have the Wit fairytale, won't it?
- our first look at Braize?!
- there's a Yolen dragon on Roshar! (apparently Cultivation?)
- another cryptic name: Design
- Radiant Lightweaving more powerful than Yolen Lightweaving, at least the variety Wit can use
- storms, Wit's stories always give me the chills :'-)

Chapter 81

- so the pure tone of Roshar is really only heard the first time the form is adopted. Is this a similar mechanism to reaching a new ideal giving a one-time burst of Stormlight? is it the first time each singer adopts the forms, or anyone adopts that form in a long time?
- why is Rlain hearing the rhythms more loudly?

Chapter 82

- the Ghostbloods also have one of the daggers!
- more evidence for Thaidakar = Kelsier

Chapter 83

- major plot twist: the Dawnchant is German
- Odium + Cultivation = Freedom?
- nightform. Did we already know that one? And didn't Rlain think they were stormform? Or were those others?

Chapter 84

- Navani's notebook: two handwritings? Navani and Raboniel?
- Raysium!
- why/how do the Fused have access to Taldain sand?

Chapter 85

- Dabbid not speaking so people don't notice he's different is heartbreaking. :(

Chapter 86

- groundspren? Is that what listeners call gravityspren?
- "I will serve", an Aes Sedai would be proud
- Ohhh, are we going to see Venli's script?

Chapter 87

- two thousand honorspren deadeyes from the Recreance. I think that's the first estimate we get for the number of Radiants back then.
- Kelek saying "hell". Does Ashyn mythology have a hell?
- Eyree = Ire, right?

Chapter 88

- awww, I was hoping for a Stormstrider, but the image of that chasmfiend is really epic
- I did expect Eshonai's speech to draw Timbre though :D

Chapter 89

- okay yeah, so the part 3 epigraphs were indeed Navani and Raboniel going back and forth. Will have to reread to check who wrote what.

Chapter 90

- the Cryptic is *definitely* Shallan's/Formless's

Chapter 91

- Huh, Kelek is addressing this directly to Shallan? Or the Ghostbloods in general? How does he know?
- <3 for Teft (and Phendorana)
- sounds like the Envisagers are a separate group from the Sons of Honor. Are they still around?

Chapter 93

- Huh, one of her personas being the murderer was the right call, but I would never have suspected Radiant
- so was the Formless "he" just a typo? that seems somewhat unlikely since lots of beta/gamma readers must've noticed.
- storming honorspren

Chapter 94

- I feel like between all the new revelations here they're kinda overlooking the fact that the deadeyes might not actually be dead?

Chapter 97

- chapter title: Freedom is *so* gonna be Odium+Cultivation
- is the fact humans can hear the rhythms because tiny amounts of singer DNA have mixed with humans over the millennia? Or is it just that they're actually physical sounds at the edge of what humans can hear?
- I don't really understand why the plate specifically emits the opposite sound?
- the idea of neutral/"demagnetised" Light sounds decidedly different from antimatter
- holy storm, Raboniel. Seriously. how do you equally make me empathise with you and despise you so much. you're a creature of Passions alright.
- coming back to the chapter title, it's pretty oblique but I'm *still* thinking that it's a reference to the Odium+Cultivation hybrid, because Navani did mention trying to create other hybrids from Voidlight

 

One note regarding some earlier discussion about Kelek saying "Hell" and that that term doesn't belong in the Cosmere... "Hell" shows up in the title of a Cosmere story... ;) (Not saying that that's what Kelek is referencing, but the term certainly seems to have a place in some mythologies around the Cosmere, so this could definitely be intentional.)

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Interludes I7-I9 szeth/CC/Mr T

Szeth's family was given to the honorblades like a sacrifice? But Mr T sez daddy dead? Just what the hey-tang be going on in shinovar. I strongly suspect shenanigans, which may be the name of the stone shamans sports bar. 

Love chiri but I guess I shouldn't speculate too much cuz dawnshard under spoiler protection. That pure tone of Roshar. Honor? Seems like it. 

I don't know why we don't kill Mr t's close retainers and family.  Sure spare karbranth. I guess that's the evil in me speaking. We knew nightblood was viable for damaging rayse from WoB so not a huge surprise here.  

Dannnnnggggg.  The glyph page is cool as heck.   Koravari culti shard holder??! Yezss. 

73. Shut your filthy pie hole, Ulim. That's Taln you're talking about.  Yeah so the palace meeting was a set up. Wonder how long Odium was working on Gav and who the agents were. And did Gavilar come by his aspirations himself or were they planted.  Interesting stuff.  Find it funny that they think the oathpact alteration was a strategy. Seems like Odium forces always have an excuse when they lose. Either it was luck, or the enemy was way stronger. That believed,  or some kind of master plan.  It seems the world s biggest joke that humans are the most advanced they've ever been on roshar and should be able to stand by themselves but are missing what they had before, the full radiant structure and heralds. 

 

74. No, you're pathetic, venli. Grow up.  I can understand lirins pragmatism but can't make myself like or respect it. Feels like he let the roshone situation break him. Shash. My boy inspires where ever he goes. 

75. I think a herald is writing the chapter header epigrams. Candidates are Ishar, Kalak, and taln. The part 4 glyph would seem to indicate taln so ill lean that way for now. . Adolin, wow. Been 400 pages more or less.  The Urithiru events were so horrid that I almost forgot this plot line. Honorspren are walk. I think they are broken. No guess on the deadeyes. I want it to be about Maya and her awakening though. 

Shallan. Yeah well seems like the shallan persona might be the fakes of all.  Figures right when pattern is about to spill the beans and when its looking like we might have jumped the gun, shallan would go full retard. 16? No clue. Someone cosmere aware. Cognitive shadow maybe. Way shallans backstory us going,  both deadeye cryptics we've seen are related to her. Maybe she and her family make a hobby of killing spren. And maybe the cryptics have been trying valiantly to get a bond on there for some reason and the ghostbloods are stopping it or something.  

76. The decisive in decisiveness in the epigram reminds me of kelak but I dunno. Phew crazy. The rhythm of war. Really hope stormvoid light isn't a massive loss for the good guys. This whole book is depressing. Maybe she and lift can make more tower light forcing it into the pillar? Bah of course she was never going to give the tower back.  The revelations about the shadow days were cool. So raboniels grandma saw the expulsion or the arrival oh humans.  Ordinarily you'd think , ok 50-70 years prior to raboniel being born or able to remember.  But, with singer femalen going into puberty around 7 or 8, could only be 20-30 years.  I feel like the war started pretty fast. Maybe less than 100 years, and the humans were probably winning, otherwise we go to odium for power? Oh well, I need more info!

77.77. Wow. That was awesome. So axe is world hopper agent and there was another. Ghostblood? Nalthis? Man just more questions. Ah. So gavilar is the reason voidspren can cross at all. I guess he opened the "back door?" And man pretending to be sons of honor or i mean he disobeyed the Heralds,  he wanted to be a God? I need more info!

78. Kelak's balls! Uh uh maybe that's not the right oath for this situation. Man. Ok Pattern probably not bad, yay! But there's another traitor. Darn Pattern red herring.  I've long wondered if syl was just syl or if other honorspren were like her. They used to be...my boy Kelak. Sigh I'm going to hate him aren't I. Not sure if I'm more afraid of him  condemning adolin or of shallan trying and/or succeeding in killing him.

79. Jezrien gone. I had come to accept it as the truth but still a hard pill to swallow. Poor Rlain and yay best mom hesina. Hope dabbid continues to recover.

80. You know, I was never clear. I wonder if the Herald's torture is what Kaladin is going through now if if the it was a constant stream of new bodies as they were physically tortured to death. I like design. Be strong bud.

81.  I don't know what to think honestly. I believe that the double cross would have happened and I'm not confident that gavilar would have been a bondsmith.  Seemed to far gone and self serving. But even if they hadn't, taln would have still broke.  Feels bad, man.

82. Oh man oh man. I'm really starting to hate Shallan. It's always one more bad thing. Just stain your hands a little more and then you can wash your hands of everything. Mraize and the ghostbloods wanting it is all I need to know that stabbing Kelak isn't a good thing. It's a shame Adolin can't see the heralds as the once were. Kaladin and others were ready to break in months to a few years. 2500 years.  I think Kelak and others are right about Jez being in the beyond.  Everything points to it, so I don't think mraize is lying about that.   But the whole roshar thing, she the world,  heralds monsters, blah blah blah straight up manipulation.  Thaidakar cognitive shadow eh? Probably fraying if he has some Herald symptoms.  Man, this feels so wrong. I really need there to be some kind of Herald redemption arc. It's gotta be worth something,  ya know? 7000 years, giving up their lives and souls. Also there's what crazy really needs to do, uh back flap, the captured soul? This book is depressing the he'll out of me.

83. I was afraid that odium was a pure tone of roshar now. I guess it had to do with a combination of the recreance and the everstorm.  I guess we need to do a new tower light. Rhythm of war combined with lifelight. Man F Lirin I'm done with that fool.  Lift! Yes! Finally finally we are doing something that seems good and right.

84. Huh force multipliers.  raysium name confirmation. Complications in Jezriens capture.  I still think his soul faded away.  Kind of ironic that ABM capture both damaged roshar and gave singers the idea you could do that to a herald. Dunno how I feel about navani.  On one hand maybe her experiments are the only chance. On the other, well damn, you've given the enemy everything else, why not anti matter bombs. 

85. Feel good chapter.  Bondsmith dabbid, make it happen.

86. Yeah so Gavilar had no contact with pro odium forces.  A third faction pulling the strings? Stuff just gets weirder. Wonder if its autonomy doing her buddy rayse a favor and jailbreaking.

87. You can tell Brandon had a lot of fun writing Krazy Kelak. 2000 windrunners, wow. I was totally totally totally off on the numbers.  I thought a bit over 1000 radiants total and that feverstone keep was the majority of windrunners and stonewards. Nope! Only way this ends "well" and don't consider shallan murdering a herald for the ghostbloods, impersonating him and ordering spren to war under false pretenses, thereby staining everything to be, "well." Only thing i can think of is adolin resurrecting Maya and her offering testimony.  I find it impossible that the spren  didn't know the recreance was gonna happen and though they might not have been on board, I can see some of them agreeing. 

88. Timbre. Huh.  Roshar weird, man.
89. Yes, navani, DO Something.  Poor Sibling. Gosh darn it. This book is the worst. Kind of crazy that the ancients, on both sides, app, were so cosmere aware but had a low tech civilization, though, at point they could forge steel, at least. The opposite is now true.  Though it's changing. Vibrations, sand on desk. Comatose. Is that really where we're at now. Jasnah did ask Kabsal to play the pattern for Urithiru. 

90. I hate this book. I don't thinkbit's a bad book, just 1000 pages of big Ls and depression.   Honor is not dead so long as he lives in the hearts of men! Can't really blame the other ones though.  Yeah so cryptic. Yeah, Shallan's work, the one who ruined everything. Veil and Raidiant taking a stand was cool , but then shallan just moved the goal posts and unleashes formless.  So formless will kill the judge and impersonate him. The truth will get out, and it will be worse than not doing anything at all.  It will destroy Adolin. Shallan is trash, utter trash.  I'm open to shallan redemption, but I don't see it happening.  Taking a stab at it, I'd say formless is either the original persona or much closer than "shallan." She killed that spren and maybe more than him, ill even go do far as to say, her mom was probably justified in trying to snuff her out.  Starting to change my mind on capturing Kelak for dear leader being the truth. Starting to think its part of the deal with fused to use oathgates to get stormlight off world. There's Maya, the gathering deadeyes,  and shallan's captured soul.  There's also a glimmer of hope in bavani, rlain, Kaladin. And venli.  But, if radiant spren declare for Odium, it doesn't matter, it's over. Sigh

91. Phendorana is a babe.  I think Syl implied she was someone important and the reason for the wave of 50 honorspren accepting bonds.  Teft right, you an officer buddy. Even Rlain would run through a brick wall for you.

92. Almost gave it all away Venli. Raboniel suspects, I'd say its an even chance she knows but thinks she can't be stopped.  Thude and company alive. Totally cool.  Would be awesome if listeners and humans did a true alliance.  I think its been done in the past though the singers weren't radiant. Still, even if that doesn't happen, hope thude and company remain free and alive.  Guess this is it. Hours left before the sibling is unmade and raboniel goes about winning the war.  I'm sweating. 

93. Reintegration. Ha. Glad to see it.  Also glad to see what seemed apparent,  the honor never dies faction wants to fight and the leaders are just using kelak as a prop.  A bit of a good vibe but still waiting for the other shoe to drop. Wouldn't surprise me if someone else uses the knife on Kel.

94. YES YES YES. Maya ftw. And damn brandon sandbagging. Saying healing deadeyes was practically impossible if you weren't the oath breaker.  Yeah, I know she isn't healed. But she's lucid . I guess they are like pre first ideal or something? Still, now there's a chance.

95. I messed up the timeline in my head . Kept forgetting the year b etween books.  Hmm come on second ideal, venli.

96.  I guess this was Venli's come to Jesus moment. I don't know if I'd want her coming back, honestly.  Seems like it would be against her nature. I just hope she doesn't get Thude and company killed.  Mishram is the captured soul. I dunno what good freeing her does but seemingly lucid Kelak wants it and capturing her did take a big bite out of roshar.

97. Well navani gave raboniel everything else,  of course shed give her the key to destroying radiants forever.  Of course anti void light evens the playing field. But only if we get the tower back.  Trying to kill raboniel was a good try but meaningless as she would just be back in 7-9 days. Well the only hope now is Rlain,  lift, kal, teft. I think shallan has to release bam and rlain needs to touch the sibling. Gosh dang it.

 

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