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Rhythm of War Part Two Reactions

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20 hours ago, Knight of Iron said:

This book takes place before Sazed puts Wax through anything.

This book takes place around the time Wax and Lessie meet.

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On 11/18/2020 at 2:59 AM, Baryy said:

Crackpot theory but i think the deadeye cryptic in the little town was Shallan's old spren who died and Pattern was the ghostblood replacement.

I hate you right now (not really). That makes entirely too much sense. I went back and re-read that bit again, and yeah... it fits. 

10 years ago would put it around what, 1165? Shallan would've been nine? Also Adolin mentioned Bavland as a possibility, which is at least in Jah Keved. And if the deadeye was found on an island, that would imply a lake on the physical side, so it's possible someone threw the blade into a lake (that might be a bit of a stretch though).

Otherwise though, it always did seem odd that her father was able to take the blade and lock it away in a safe. After finding out about what shardblades really were I wondered why that would really do anything. But if it was a deadeye blade, then well that would be possible and it would stay.

Also, I remember Pattern being concerned about Shallan killing him, but I don't remember the exact wording though, or even where it was. Does anyone remember where that was? I It might be informative to re-read that section to see what exactly he said, and how he said it.

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18 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

I guess it depends on the time gap between book 4 and 5 because I'm pretty sure Wax and wayne takes place after book 5 but Brandon isnt sure if it happens after or before book 6

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/260-oathbringer-newcastle-signing/#e8749

 

There’s a 5-10 year gap between books 5&6. W&W take place in this gap or just after it. SA 5 begins within a short time of SA 4’s finale. Wax and Lessie were together for around fifteen years. (SoS takes place 17 years after their meeting.)

Scratch that, Harmony’s already sent her.

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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24 minutes ago, Rosencrantz said:

Also, I remember Pattern being concerned about Shallan killing him, but I don't remember the exact wording though, or even where it was. Does anyone remember where that was? I It might be informative to re-read that section to see what exactly he said, and how he said it.

I don’t have the book in front of me right now, but I know that he first mentions it upon their initial meeting... or re-meeting in the ship at the beginning of WoR, before Jasnah is attacked and stuff. And I recall Pattern was not concerned Shallan would kill him, but he was certain of it for a fact, and he just wanted to learn everything he could before Shallan would for sure kill him.

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4 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

There’s a 5-10 year gap between books 5&6. W&W take place in this gap or just after it. SA 5 begins within a short time of SA 4’s finale. Wax and Lessie were together for around fifteen years. (SoS takes place 17 years after their meeting.)

Scratch that, Harmony’s already sent her.

Harmony is a Shard with access to Futuresight and Fortune. Assuming that he has a need for cause and effect in the strictest sense is dangerous. He may have known that this is necessary, but not the (true) reason.

Also I doubt that Harmony does not have a plan B, plan C and plan D. Marasi and Marsh are next in line, I'd say.

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Harmony is a Shard with access to Futuresight and Fortune. Assuming that he has a need for cause and effect in the strictest sense is dangerous. He may have known that this is necessary, but not the (true) reason.

Also I doubt that Harmony does not have a plan B, plan C and plan D. Marasi and Marsh are next in line, I'd say.

Oh, definitely. But this was about noting that Saze was already setting things up with Wax at this point.

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9 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Oh, definitely. But this was about noting that Saze was already setting things up with Wax at this point.

Yes, but the Set is older. Harmony may just be repurposing.

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6 hours ago, Rosencrantz said:

I hate you right now (not really). That makes entirely too much sense. I went back and re-read that bit again, and yeah... it fits. 

10 years ago would put it around what, 1165? Shallan would've been nine? Also Adolin mentioned Bavland as a possibility, which is at least in Jah Keved. And if the deadeye was found on an island, that would imply a lake on the physical side, so it's possible someone threw the blade into a lake (that might be a bit of a stretch though).

Otherwise though, it always did seem odd that her father was able to take the blade and lock it away in a safe. After finding out about what shardblades really were I wondered why that would really do anything. But if it was a deadeye blade, then well that would be possible and it would stay.

Also, I remember Pattern being concerned about Shallan killing him, but I don't remember the exact wording though, or even where it was. Does anyone remember where that was? I It might be informative to re-read that section to see what exactly he said, and how he said it.

Quote

“Of course. Hmmm. Why else would I come? I will learn so much before-“

He stopped abruptly.

”Pattern?” she asked. “Before what?”

”A figure of speech.” He said it perfectly flatly, absent of tone. He was growing better and better at speaking like a person, and at times he sounded just like one. But now all of the color had gone from his voice.

”You’re lying “, she accused him, glancing at his pattern on the wall. He had shrunk, growing as small as a fist, half his usual size.

”Yes”, he said reluctantly.

”You’re a terrible liar,” Shallan said, surprised at the realization.

”Yes.”

”But you love lies!”

”So fascinating,” he said. “You are all so fascinating.”

”Tell me what you were going to say,” Shallan ordered. “Before you stopped yourself. I’ll know if you lie.”

”Hmmmm. You sound like her. More and more like her.”

”Tell me.”

He buzzed with an annoyed sound, quick and high pitched. “I will learn what I can of you before you kill me.”

”You think... You think I’m going to kill you?”

” It happened to the others,” Pattern said, his voice softer now. “It will happen to me. It is... a pattern.”

Then they proceed to talk more in depth about how there other knights betrayed their oaths & killed their Spren. I also think that the certainty with which he says Shallan is going to kill him raises some questions, but... I really hold on hope that this will be just a misunderstanding. I can’t accept this!!

also didn’t the inkspren say that his Cryptic friend turned deadeye about a year ago? It if really was Shallan’s initial spren she must’ve killed it before she killed her mother, so that would be 9-10 years ago. I think she already bonded Pattern at that age. 

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2 minutes ago, mariapapadia said:

also didn’t the inkspren say that his Cryptic friend turned deadeye about a year ago? It if really was Shallan’s initial spren she must’ve killed it before she killed her mother, so that would be 9-10 years ago. I think she already bonded Pattern at that age. 

I'd have to look up the exact passage, but my understanding was that it happened at some point between 10 years and 1 year ago.

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5 minutes ago, Mender said:

I'd have to look up the exact passage, but my understanding was that it happened at some point between 10 years and 1 year ago.

Ohhh no:( you are right. Ohhhhh I really don’t want Pattern to be the traitor 

Quote

The inkspren waved to his friend. “She was my partner for many centuries. She left ten years ago to join others hunting for Radiants. Last year I found her like this, sitting alone on an island far to the east. She insisted on coming out this direction—at least, she walked this way incessantly. So I set up shop here.”

 

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My mind has exploded all over my carpet. That will be so hard to clean up. 4 Shards? 4 Shards? The lore in this letter... And Pattern is the spy or at least lying? My favourite spren and possibly tied for favorite non-worldhopper Stormlight character? I hate the fact that sleep is a requirement for my brain functions. I can already feel my mind slowing. The explosion probably didn't help. Aside: Taravangian interludes every part? Huzzah!

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15 hours ago, mariapapadia said:

Then they proceed to talk more in depth about how there other knights betrayed their oaths & killed their Spren. I also think that the certainty with which he says Shallan is going to kill him raises some questions, but... I really hold on hope that this will be just a misunderstanding. I can’t accept this!!

also didn’t the inkspren say that his Cryptic friend turned deadeye about a year ago? It if really was Shallan’s initial spren she must’ve killed it before she killed her mother, so that would be 9-10 years ago. I think she already bonded Pattern at that age. 

Thanks for finding that quote. I really don't want it to be Pattern either. Honestly I dismissed the possibility when it first came up. I was like nope, it's just Shallan getting further unhinged, Pattern *can't* be working with the ghostbloods. Then well, I saw the original post about the deadeye cryptic...and it all sort of crashed home. 

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On 11/17/2020 at 7:51 AM, Nahema said:

I‘m glad they call her „Stump“ as Arshqqam doesn’t sound fitting in German. *giggles*

So what does Arshqqam translate to in German?

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9 minutes ago, JoyBlu said:

So what does Arshqqam translate to in German?

"Arsh" sounds like German "Arsch" meaning "arse". "qqam" doesn't really mean anything. Phonetically, the closest thing would be "Kamm", meaning either "comb" or "ridge".

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2 hours ago, Mender said:

"Arsh" sounds like German "Arsch" meaning "arse". "qqam" doesn't really mean anything. Phonetically, the closest thing would be "Kamm", meaning either "comb" or "ridge".

Ridge & Stump kinda go together! 

Thanks for the interpretation. 

I actually really like “Stump”. While I didn’t test as a Truthwatcher personality I self identify as one. Ym is still my favorite Stormlight Character. (The shoemaker interlude). I am excited to see Stump’s character development and her relationship with her Spren. Navani is also an older woman who I enjoy reading about and so is Hesina. I do enjoy reading about characters that are more my age. 

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On 11/17/2020 at 4:22 PM, FollowYourMuse said:

Is it just me or other than his lying, does patterns dialogue sound "off" or different? 

Yes. 100%. I am so uneasy about it!

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Okay, finished part two.  And.  Uh.  Wow.

First off, I didn't realize we knew Pattern was the spy.  I missed that.  But now, after reading the posts here, I've got to admit, it makes sense.  If Shallan bonded a Cryptic very young, somehow broke her oaths, and then Pattern came as a spy/replacement?  That lines up with the deadeye that was found.  Edit:  I went back and reread that part, and oh.  Oh wow.  That's... um.  Dang.  Well then.

Well, things are definitely happening.  Adolin’s got himself on trial, Shallan/Veil/Radiant are fighting against a new personality, Urithiru is being occupied, and Kaladin both started an attempt to fix Alethkar’s mental health system and argued with Lirin as the occupation was ongoing, which made me very sad, but they did get some of the dirty laundry out.  I have a feeling Adolin’s avoiding thinking about what Dalinar did, which… that’s not going to end up well.

I feel like I learnt a lot more about Kaladin in this part, especially during his argument with Lirin.  Kaladin’s use of the word slave throughout that was very insightful, and I have a feeling that Lirin maybe doesn’t fully understand or grasp what Kaladin has been through.  Also, Lirin, you aren't going to help your son or your relationship with him by calling him a monster.  That is... *screams quietly*

Also, the epigraphs.  The epigraphs.  Oh man.  I get what there's already a Shardcast on them.

Edited by Spren of Kindness
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I’m beginning to think that the most honorable Master Brandon Sanderson is a Kaladin Stormblessed sadist. Yikes. I believe he writes him with a permanent black cloud over him that follows him everywhere. Dude just can’t catch a break in RoW...:(

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Just started reading Sja-Anat interlude. Thats mind blowing! I will note here all my infering and theorizing.

Syl's interlude:

Dawnshard spoiler

Spoiler

Maybe what she feels from Cord's plate is because it was given willingly to protect the dawnshard?

1.Sja-Anat work alone.

2.The Unmade are other spren in the same level as the Storm-father, night-watcher and the sibling. Maybe they are forces of nature corrupted by Odium? They are probably like Cusicesh, but then we need to think why isn't Cusicesh unmde like the others, I feel like its great reveal that wee will learn more about in the end of the book.

3. The Sibling is of Honor and Cultivation. Sja calls him they so it might be a group of spren? Maybe its Honor spren and Cultivation spren combined? I hope we will find out.

4. Maybe Rayse has planned how to use hise his shard in none harmful way before the shattering? It seems like there is some conflict between them as Sja-Anat notes.

Taravangian interlude:

5. Travangian interludes symbol is so cute.

6. I hope Cultivation have more plans for him.

Chapter 20:

1. I'm starting to suspect that veil is the spy she is acting weirdly.

2. Is that eon in the box?!

 

Edited by One_Armed
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1 hour ago, One_Armed said:

Sja calls him they so it might be a group of spren?

"They" can be used as a gender-neutral singular.

 

1 hour ago, One_Armed said:

Maybe Rayse has planned how to use hise his shard in none harmful way before the shattering? It seems like there is some conflict between them as Sja-Anat notes.

I suspect the opposite is going on. There's some theorising since Oathbringer that the shard could also be called Passion, and there was an epigraph in one of the first two books stating the Rayse was always a hateful person. So Odium would be Rayse's interpretation of the less harmful concept of Passion.

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On 11/16/2020 at 11:29 PM, Eternal Khol said:

Harmony talks about having/finding a kind of Champion who would be like his main agent. Harmomy’s hands.

who do we think it is?

Wax?

Exact quote from Harmony:

Quote

I have begun searching for a pathway out of this conundrum by seeking the ideal person to act on my behalf. Someone who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. A ... sword, you might say, who can both protect and kill.

Agree this is probably Wax, but my first out-there thought upon reading it was Kaladin!  He's a healer, and also a killer.  Harmony specifically uses the word protect...

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Sja-Anat Interlude
- Mentions The Sibling as her cousin. It is a spren on the same level as the Unmade. It is considered slumbering, though the Fused think it essentially a dead-eye. It can be awakened.
- Were the Unmade all children of Honor and Cultivation which Odium corrupted? Since I assume they were Made, then Unmade
- Rayse still has a strong personality which rails against the exact behaviours of the Shard's Intent (disliking questioning etc.). I think the Intent really is Passion but Rayse's perception leads it closer to Odium
- Sja-Anat Enlightened which kind of spren to send to Urithiru? The spren is described as glistening lights? Not similar to Glys, but closer to what normal Truthwatcher spren look like. Perhaps a Dustbringer spren?


- Mistspren match the description of the Truthwatcher spren??? In WoBs they were said to not be Radiant spren. I guess they are now! Book canon overrides WoBs

Rhyshadium have an afterimage? Is this due to their symbiotic bond with (assumed) musicspren?

"the bright azure light of Honor's moon". The Fused refer to Nomon as Honor's moon?

Pattern replaced Shallan's original spren? That spren was the one they saw in the town that had been made into a deadeye between 1 and 10 years ago may have been her original which she killed by revoking oaths after killing her mother.

I absolutely LOVE unreliable narrators! Brandon does this so well!

4 New Shards! Now we have 14 out of 16 named Shards.

I was really annoyed at what Kaladin did in killing that Fused. It felt like he was being too stubborn and risking the lives of his family to sate his own need to protect. I feel like sometimes their oaths may put them in this position where they save one person and doom others because the 'means' are more important than the end to the KR. Poor Lirin, Kaladin ruined his sanctuary.

The fact that Kaladin is able to use Adhesion fine is interesting, it may be due to the fact that it is the closest surge to Honor? The Fused can't use it, so perhaps the Tower didn't try to suppress it in particular.

Edited by AutonomousJoy
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Just finished part two. I don´t believe for one second that Pattern is the ghostblood spy, at least not willingly or intentionally. And Kaladins interaction with Lirin is hard to read for me. The more i read about Lirin the less sympathetic i find him, i see it as an interesting contrast to Dalinar. The later wants Adolin to be a better man than he is/was, while Lirin wants Kaladin to measure up to Lirin himself.

And when Maya picked up a sword to help Adolin...Man, i almost got tears in my eyes. I mean i realize it wasn´t THAT emotional a scene and we saw Maya actively rescuing Adolin before, but it somehow just connected with me. Mayas revival is the plotthreat i´ve been looking forward to the most since i started speculating about Oathbringer.

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On 11/19/2020 at 10:43 AM, Rosencrantz said:

I hate you right now (not really). That makes entirely too much sense. I went back and re-read that bit again, and yeah... it fits. 

10 years ago would put it around what, 1165? Shallan would've been nine? Also Adolin mentioned Bavland as a possibility, which is at least in Jah Keved. And if the deadeye was found on an island, that would imply a lake on the physical side, so it's possible someone threw the blade into a lake (that might be a bit of a stretch though).

Otherwise though, it always did seem odd that her father was able to take the blade and lock it away in a safe. After finding out about what shardblades really were I wondered why that would really do anything. But if it was a deadeye blade, then well that would be possible and it would stay.

Also, I remember Pattern being concerned about Shallan killing him, but I don't remember the exact wording though, or even where it was. Does anyone remember where that was? I It might be informative to re-read that section to see what exactly he said, and how he said it.

Noooo way! Sadly that does make sense. Though I hoped that Pattern was trying to help Shallan by getting some information Mraize will give her towards her by betraying her - which is, well, twisted, but Spren becoming twisted by the problems their Radiants face might be a theme in the book, with Syl's depressed "all will leave us" moment which is exactly what Kaladin has been thinking in some of his worst moments. I wonder whether Spren were changing with their humans in personality. Probably.

Oh yes ! Pattern worrying about Shallan must have been in WoK or WoR. I always assumed that he was reffering to the abandoned Oathpact. HUUUUHH.

Is there a rule against double posts? In case there is I'll just add my rant about part 2, which I have just finished, here:

 

1)

Brandon and his awesome quotes / philosophical insights (I imagine he discusses this and reads up on stuff?). I am so glad he slips those into his books. Sometimes I discuss things with friends - or random strangers on the internet - and something someone says doesn't sit right with me. It takes me a lot of time sometimes to find the concepts and words to express myself, and sometimes someone else has the words ready. I discussed with some stranger on Twitter about Jamie Lannister (GoT) once. She believed/argued that threatening to trebuchet a baby was worse than killing your trusting cousin in order to create a slim chance for escape because the first thing happened when the character wanted to win a battle, and the second when he wanted to survive and go protect his family. According to her logic, Goal 2 was nobler than Goal 1, and that somehow justified Means 2. I didn't have a good argument besides "threatening to murder is absolutely not worse than actually committing a murder". Brandon added the other aspect I couldn't formulate but recognize as one of the things I do believe: Dalinar tell Adolin in chapter 21 that "your goals and the journey used to attain them must align" and I was like YES THAT'S IT, EXACTLY THIS! Seems so simple. I needed someone else to formulate it.

2)

Chapter 23: So far nothing in RoW has brought tears to my eyes yet, but this chapter got the closest / really touched me: Teft follows Kaladin!! I really loved this.

3)

As a general note, Shallan's plot really intrigues me. I am really curious to see how things are playing out in the end: what Mraize wants, who the spy is, IF there is a spy, what Mraize meant when he said Sja-Anat might be playing "us both" (chapter 30) - ahhhhh

4)

The scars wars and victimhood leaves for generations and different ways to dealing with guilt and responsibility are really well explored in RoW imo.

5)

I wonder whether Lirin's remark that emotion alone is not enough, but you need a plan / principles to go woth them (I can't find the quote rn) is prophetic (My brain heard some faint "emotion without honour and honour without emotion are not that optimal, how about we try some Harmony" in there). My pet theory is still that Venli (+ somehow, maybe Leshwi) and Kaladin will connect somehow.

6)

Oh Kaladin. A friend of mine remarked that to her, Kaladin's plot was essentially 1. Take a deep fall 2. Work hard to get out of it 3. Find yourself in a pretty good position (compared to before) 4. Ruin it 5. Repeat.

That moment Kaladin killed the Fused to protect Teft --------- I was like KALADIN YOU RUINED IT AGAIN. Excited to see where this will go.

 

 

On 11/24/2020 at 7:42 AM, AutonomousJoy said:


Rhyshadium have an afterimage? Is this due to their symbiotic bond with (assumed) musicspren?

"the bright azure light of Honor's moon". The Fused refer to Nomon as Honor's moon?


[...]

The fact that Kaladin is able to use Adhesion fine is interesting, it may be due to the fact that it is the closest surge to Honor? The Fused can't use it, so perhaps the Tower didn't try to suppress it in particular.

About the Rhyshadium: Where do you have the musicspren bond info from?? That is interesting.

The moon: Ohhh I missed that entirely! I guess we'll learn how the world of Roshar was fromed by H + C at some point.

Adhesion: ah I thought that since the Sibling was partially corrupted, not all Radiant surges were suppressed, only some, and Adhesion happens to be one of them. I also assumed that the Bondsmith abilities were the closest to Honour / that one of them was the tenth surge Raboniel mentions. I couldn't figure out which surge the Fused do not use yet. They definitely use Transportation, Illumination, Abrasion and Division.

 

On 11/20/2020 at 10:37 AM, Mender said:

"Arsh" sounds like German "Arsch" meaning "arse". "qqam" doesn't really mean anything. Phonetically, the closest thing would be "Kamm", meaning either "comb" or "ridge".

Okay while this is epic, I doubt that Brandon would literally call any of his characters "ass comb" haha

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