Mistborn Snapping and Death

[Aspiring Writer]

I HAVE RETURNED! Question of the week, if someone who is a Mistborn is not snapped, will they still be able to resist the pull into the Beyond? We know the more Invested someone is, the longer they can last, but are they still considered Invested if they are never snapped?

[Kingsdaughter613]

Mistborn aren’t invested. If they are burning metal they’re Invested. So no, an unsnapped Mistborn would not be burning metal and thus not be Invested.

[Weltall]

Per the beginning of Secret History, that's irrelevant. Preservation quite explicitly noted that it takes longer for allomancers to be pulled Beyond; Not 'allomancers who happened to be burning metal right as they died', just 'allomancers' full stop. We get to see a contrast with non-Invested people, particularly with one recently deceased woman who popped in and almost immediately faded away.

My instinct would be to say that the same process of Initiation that awakens whatever allomantic power you might have is necessary to buy you that extra time in the Cognitive Realm and people who theoretically could have become one but never snapped would be treated the same as a completely un-Invested person.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Weltall

[Aspiring Writer]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Mistborn aren’t invested. If they are burning metal they’re Invested. So no, an unsnapped Mistborn would not be burning metal and thus not be Invested.

WHatever that helps them last longer, i meant that.

[Kingsdaughter613]

27 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

WHatever that helps them last longer, i meant that.

Burning metals. That’s what does it. Mistborn (and Mistings) are only Invested when actively burning. IF they are killed while burning metals, then they can briefly resist the pull of the Beyond.

Kell was burning Malatium when he died. And Elend was being pumped with Investiture by Vin. If they died in their sleep, while not burning, they would have faded away as quickly as everyone else.

So unsnapped Mistings/Mistborn cannot be burning metals and fade at the same rate as anyone else.

[Weltall]

5 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Burning metals. That’s what does it.

Not according to Preservation, who I think knows what he's talking about. He says that allomances last longer, he puts no qualifiers on that statement and didn't even know Kelsier was burning malatium at the moment of his death until later when Kel told him.

I do agree that un-snapped people probably fade as fast as normal people, but once you've snapped, it doesn't matter if you're burning or not when you die.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Weltall

[Chinkoln]

Once you have snapped, part of Preservation's power is you. Brandon has described the process as (paraphrased by me)

"You get so beat up that your spirit starts to crack as well. Once your spirit is sufficiently cracked, Preservation's power rushes in and heals your spirit. Preservations healing allows you permanent access to his power when you burn metals."

So yes, a Mistborn has investiture as part of their spiritual ideal.

[Knight of Iron]

4 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Burning metals. That’s what does it. Mistborn (and Mistings) are only Invested when actively burning. IF they are killed while burning metals, then they can briefly resist the pull of the Beyond.

Kell was burning Malatium when he died. And Elend was being pumped with Investiture by Vin. If they died in their sleep, while not burning, they would have faded away as quickly as everyone else.

So unsnapped Mistings/Mistborn cannot be burning metals and fade at the same rate as anyone else.

I do agree with your statements on Mistborn only being Invested when actively burning (as in, other then their innate Investiture, they can only hold kinetic Investiture), but their spiritweb still contains the connections to access the Investiture, and therefore it is somehow as if they were Invested. They act like they are Invested because of these connections, I mean.

Here's a longer WOB on that (I split it into the two spoilers below so I could comment)

Spoiler

Blightsong

Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right?

Questioner

Is a Mistborn Invested?

Brandon Sanderson

The Mistborn, while they're burning the metal. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, then yes. Before, no.

 

So here he says that yes, they are not specifically Invested when they are not burning the metal. They are Invested when they are burning it. So far so good. Here's the rest (SH spoilers):

Spoiler

Blightsong

So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder.

Questioner

Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

So it seems to be from this that Invested isn't the right word, but because of their Spiritual connections, it is still more difficult to, say, Push/Pull on them.

So to answer the original question, I think that the answer is well yes, but actually no mainly because "Invested" is the wrong term, but a being with those Allomancy sDNA connections... the universe is going to treat them as if they were partly Invested.
Now the question becomes, when do you gain those sDNA connections? Because I realize if they gain those connections upon snapping, then they're screwed. But if it's part of your sDNA from birth, then yes.

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, Knight of Iron said:

I do agree with your statements on Mistborn only being Invested when actively burning (as in, other then their innate Investiture, they can only hold kinetic Investiture), but their spiritweb still contains the connections to access the Investiture, and therefore it is somehow as if they were Invested. They act like they are Invested because of these connections, I mean.

Here's a longer WOB on that (I split it into the two spoilers below so I could comment)

  Hide contents

Blightsong

Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right?

Questioner

Is a Mistborn Invested?

Brandon Sanderson

The Mistborn, while they're burning the metal. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, then yes. Before, no.

So here he says that yes, they are not specifically Invested when they are not burning the metal. They are Invested when they are burning it. So far so good. Here's the rest (SH spoilers):

  Hide contents

Blightsong

So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder.

Questioner

Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

So it seems to be from this that Invested isn't the right word, but because of their Spiritual connections, it is still more difficult to, say, Push/Pull on them.

So to answer the original question, I think that the answer is well yes, but actually no mainly because "Invested" is the wrong term, but a being with those Allomancy sDNA connections... the universe is going to treat them as if they were partly Invested.
Now the question becomes, when do you gain those sDNA connections? Because I realize if they gain those connections upon snapping, then they're screwed. But if it's part of your sDNA from birth, then yes.

I think the key bit in that is the part that says "Over time using magic will Invest you".  It sounds like we're talking about the natural beginning steps of what eventually becomes Savantism: the more you USE investiture, the more it sticks to you and changes you.  So in the context of "Would an UnSnapped Mistborn have additional Investiture and stall on their way to the Beyond?" I think the Answer is a simple "No" because until they go through the process of Snapping and forming those Spiritual Connections in the cracks (which is the explicitly states purpose of Snapping), and likely then following up by actually USING Investiture, they are not yet a Mistborn. They are just a person with Mistborn potential, no more invested than all the non-Elantrians with the correct connections for that potential (Scadrial's increased baseline notwithstanding).  

[+robardin]

2 hours ago, Knight of Iron said:

So it seems to be from this that Invested isn't the right word, but because of their Spiritual connections, it is still more difficult to, say, Push/Pull on them.

So to answer the original question, I think that the answer is well yes, but actually no mainly because "Invested" is the wrong term, but a being with those Allomancy sDNA connections... the universe is going to treat them as if they were partly Invested.
Now the question becomes, when do you gain those sDNA connections? Because I realize if they gain those connections upon snapping, then they're screwed. But if it's part of your sDNA from birth, then yes.

We have it from Preservation's Ghost himself that Allomancers, and Mistborn especially, stick around longer in the CR before passing Beyond because of their deeper Connection to him.

Quote

"It takes longer for Allomancers, but it will happen. ... Spirits who come to this place are drawn into the Beyond."

"You aren't."

"I'm a god."

A god. Not just "God." Noted.

"Well," Kelsier said, "what is it about being a god that makes you immune? ... You indicated that Allomancers last longer. Feruchemists too?"

"Yes."

While Rashek, like Leras, could refuse to pass Beyond indefinitely due to having Ascended in his life, and Kelsier would later on, at that point Kelsier-as-Mistborn would have been pulled Beyond eventually. But he convinced Preservation to merge him with the power at the Well with his antics.

What Kelsier did could not have been managed by another Mistborn simply by virtue of being Mistborn; it'd have to be another Mistborn who used his longer time in the CR to make a run for the Well of Ascension, dive in, and then manage to have said and done the right things to Preservation for Him to act to Preserve him in that way.

Quote

 

"Please..." Kelsier whispered, falling, sliding away.

This is not right. Fuzz's voice.

"You want to see something... spectacular?" Kelsier whispered. "Help me live. I'll show you... spectacular."

Fuzz wavered, and Kelsier could sense the divinity's hesitation. It was followed by a sense of purpose, like a lamp being lit, and laughter.

Very well. Be Preserved, Kelsier. Survivor.

Something shoved him forward, and Kelsier merged with the light.

 

I suspect it has something to do with what happened to Kelsier at the Pits of Hathsin, where as he finally passed, Preservation's Ghost implies he touched Kelsier. Perhaps even making him Mistborn, where he had never Snapped before even though Marsh had. 

Quote

 

And remember... remember what I told you, so long ago... Do what I cannot, Kelsier... SURVIVE.

The word vibrated through him, and Kelsier gasped. He knew that feeling, remembered that exact command. He'd heard that voice in the Pits. Waking him, driving him forward.

Saving him.

 

After all, Kelsier must have figured in Preservation's Long Game to Preserve Scadrial from Ruin's destruction after his own passing, yeah?

Edited November 16, 2020 by robardin

[Knight of Iron]

7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I think the key bit in that is the part that says "Over time using magic will Invest you".  It sounds like we're talking about the natural beginning steps of what eventually becomes Savantism: the more you USE investiture, the more it sticks to you and changes you.  So in the context of "Would an UnSnapped Mistborn have additional Investiture and stall on their way to the Beyond?" I think the Answer is a simple "No" because until they go through the process of Snapping and forming those Spiritual Connections in the cracks (which is the explicitly states purpose of Snapping), and likely then following up by actually USING Investiture, they are not yet a Mistborn. They are just a person with Mistborn potential, no more invested than all the non-Elantrians with the correct connections for that potential (Scadrial's increased baseline notwithstanding).  

Agreed. I’m leaning more towards an unsnapped misting not lasting any longer because the snapping to initiate the connections did not happen. There are WOBs to support the idea that Preservation initially enters the spirit web once Snapped. I was in a bit of a tangent with my original point of bringing that up, that Mistborn are, in a practical sense, Invested.