Kaladin 4th Ideal

[AonDio]

Hello,

  Occasional lurker, first time poster. I've just had an epiphany on Kaladin's 4th ideal. I think the consensus for the fourth ideal is that is something along the lines of "I will protect those that I can but I accept that I cannot save everyone." I think Kaladins new role as a surgeon will lead to him swearing the 4th ideal. He will have a patient or patients that he cannot save. He will come to this realisation and ultimately swear the 4th ideal (maybe during the assault on Urithru). Furthermore this will unburden him and he will be able to return to battle and have a decisive role in the defense of Urithru. Sorry If someone had this idea before but I did not see it,

 

[Stormfather's Beard]

I broadly agree with your premise. I actually think Kaladin's breakthrough will come, either directly or indirectly through Lirin and his ability to put his failures behind him. Of course, that means through working as a surgeon.

I can see an environment where Lirin and Kal have one or more conversations that eventually result in Lirin swearing the 1st ideal (Edgedancer) and Kaladin swearing his 4th. Given the likely main arc for RoW having a group of Fused/singers (probably including the The Pursuer and Moash) I see it happening during the attack and Kaladin's level-up allows them to win, albeit with heavy losses. What exactly the 4th ideal is is less clear to me, tho I agree it will involve being able to put down his burdens. I do wonder if it will involve leadership rather than protection in some way (given that the Jez ideals are protection and leadership). I also think the wording is much more unique to each individual than we previously assumed (Dawnshard spoiler):

Spoiler

Lopen's 3rd is specifically about overcoming something that is reducing your ability to protect others and it tracks for all the third ideals we've seen. I suspect something similar for the 4th. Perhaps the lightweavers "truths" whilst requiring *more* insight than the other orders are actually a template for them - you need to recognise your own flaws and promise to try to overcome them so that you can fulfill your duty. 

 

[Harkain]

Imo I'm thinking the Windrunners fourth oath is gonna be deciding which group of people specifically they are going to prioritise protecting. Sorta like the Skybreakers fourth ideal where they need to dedicate themselves to carrying out a particular a particular crusade. It's gonna be choosing to dedicate themselves to something.

For Kaladin I'm guessing that it'll probably come off the surgeon training and be something along the lines of "I will only protect those that I can". 

[Ramona Tehradin]

The forerunners of foreboding feelings are killing me regarding this. 

I don't know what to speak about Kaladin's arc anymore after seeing/reading reviews. In fact, everyone was pretty much talking more about Kaladin than any other character. Everyone unanimously voted that his arc, plot and character was brilliantly executed- in fact the best delivery in whole Rhythm of War so I was certain everything would fall into our 'expectations'...

Until, I heard the podcast by Legendarium. 

Spoiler

The podcasters stated that story got frustrating at very instances and I assume it has to do either with Kaladin or Shallan because they are the ones who have mental infirmity. And then, we realised that Shallan won't have much focus on RoW so that ruled hers out. It's Kaladin then. 

Then, they said that it left them 'wanting'. Craig/Ryan, forgetting who spoke out but he almost said that "We are like we don't need this, we want Kaladin to speak 4th Ideal! Can we go to that!.." and then he conspicuously added, "It isn't like we say he doesn't speak out or does." which got me worried. I may be reading too much into this but why did he say 'doesn't speak out first' and it was not even planned, seemed like slipped from tongue! 

Uh!

Spoiler

Another review stated that Kaladin's arc will be very different from what we thought and it might not be fundamentally acceptable to everyone among population who want him to go on a specific path a.k.a swear 4th Ideal. 

I hope these are just jitters and we do get him to speak!

[Rai]

Yeah, I think people who are expecting Kaladin to be the traditional epic hero or make one of his comebacks like he did in The Way of Kings or Words of Radiance are gonna be disappointed. (I'm not one of those people, I think in RoW Kal's arc is the most interesting it has ever been and it would be really trite for him to do something like that every time, especially after the realizations he came to in Oathbringer, but... if you're one of the people who are only or mostly here for the action and epicness with Kaladin...) I don't think that's to say things aren't gonna get better for him at all, but Daniel Greene did mention his arc takes a more realistic route. He might not just say or reach the 4th oath in a way people are expecting, but I do still think that's gonna happen... even if it may not in this book. 

[ShardplateJoe III]

I'm of the mindset that Kaladin's fourth ideal will be along the lines of taking care of himself, my thinking being that there is only so much one can do for others without taking care of themselves before they just collapse, and that is what we see from Kaladin at the beginning of Oathbringer, is that he is having a hard time protecting others because of his own mental scars.

 

Edit: But I do believe that Kaladin's path to the 4th ideal will depend on his time with Lirin in book 4.

Edited November 15, 2020 by ShardplateJoe III