spitfireky

RoW Questions & Theories (Spoilers for Chap 1-19)

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I just finished reading chapters 1-19 and had a google doc going as I went along for questions/theories that popped up, as well as reactions. I'm gonna post them in the hidden comments for discussion (also hidden for length)

Disclaimer: I'm not 100% well-versed in the intricacies of Connection, Investiture, etc. so please correct me if I have some of the terminology or schematics wrong!

Second Disclaimer: I've only read chapters 1-19 so can discussion just stick to those chapters?

First spoiler is questions, second is theories/predictions, third is reactions.

Spoiler

Questions:

  • Where in the cosmere is Thaidakar from & have we seen him in any books before?
  • Using an unsealed metalmind keyed to Connection, would it be possible for heavily-Invested individuals native to Roshar to worldhop? (excluding Willshapers and Elsecallers)- asking this because of what Mraize said to Shallan in Chapter 13:
    • “The same limitation restrains people who are themselves heavily Invested. Radiants, spren—anyone Connected to Roshar is bound by these laws, and cannot travel farther than Ashyn or Braize. You are imprisoned here, Radiant.”
    • This is where I get iffy on the schematics (like would it even be theoretically possible for someone from Roshar to use an untapped metalmind)
  • What power does Mraize's Aviar have?
  • Are the holes in Shallan's memory entirely self-inflicted or do they have something to do with the Ghostbloods?
  • What "brand" is missing from the Fused? (since there's only 9 varieties and the Radiants have 10)
  • Why is Alethkar called the "Land of the Second Advance" in the Fuseds' language?
  • Is Nale the only Radiant that has sworn the Fourth Ideal?
  • What specifically enables Worldhoppers to worldhop?
  • How do the drums that the ardents use in agriculture direct Stormlight?
  • Why is the Stormfather prejudiced against the listeners?
  • Is Zahel's shell fossil from Yolen? If so, how did he get it?
  • Can Nightblood be used to permanently kill the Fused? Is Nightblood in any way connected to Moash's knife that he used to kill Jezrien?
    • “These enemies of yours though, I think they’re too strong for that. They’ve lasted thousands of years already, and seem Connected to Odium to feed directly on his power. You’ll have to find a way to disrupt their souls. You can’t just rip them apart; you need a weapon so strong, it unravels the soul.” He squinted, looking off into the distance. “I know through sorry experience those kinds of weapons are very dangerous to make, and never seem to work right.” - Chapter 15
    • What specifically about Nightblood and Moash's knife disrupt victims' Spiritual aspect? I don't know how this ties in, but since the Fused and the Heralds are both some form of Cognitive Shadows, it can be assumed that Moash's knife can also be used on the Fused. Maybe if he ever has a change of heart he'll use it on one of them.
  • ARE JASNAH AND HOID ACTUALLY TOGETHER? I see them more as an intellectual partnership/having mutual respect for one another. Plus, I think having Hoid be a romantic interest would probably make him too much of a "major player" in the series, when his whole schtick is operating behind-the-scenes
  • How does the tower (and to an extent, the Sibling) specifically interact with the Investiture in the highstorm? 
Spoiler

Theories/Predictions:

  • Navani will bond with the Sibling and become the second Bondsmith.
    • This seems super plausible to me but I wish that there were less Radiant main characters, if that makes sense.
    • Navani brings scholars and artifabrians together through her genius, even though she says she isn't one.
    • I've seen theories about the Bondsmiths having variances in their power, so a possible theory is that Dalinar's Bondsmith power enables him to give Radiants Investiture (charge their Stormlight) and Navani's Bondsmith power enables her to harness their power (unsure of how this would work yet)
  • The Sibling is enslaved in some sort of fabrial the way that Radiant spren are enslaved in Soulcasters.
    • I'd have to go back to the specific quote but the book said something along the lines of spren enslaved in Soulcasters looking as if they're "sleeping" in the Cognitive Realm, and there's mentions of the Sibling "slumbering"
  • Way-out-there theory: The Sibling is the mysterious correspondent on the other line of Navani's spanrial in her office in the Fourth Bridge.
    • The specifics are wonky because how could the Sibling get the ruby into Navani's office in the first place?
    • Honestly the only source I have for this is Navani referring to the correspondent as "she" to begin with then later referring to them as "they"
  • The plague that Raboniel released is tied to an Unmade.
    • No proof, just an idea.
  • Ishar used the "Unite/Bind" Dawnshard to bind the Fused to Braize after their death. 
    • In chapter 17, Shalash that the Honorblades were somehow tied to the Oathpact, could the Honorblades be splintered parts of a Dawnshard?
  • Coupled with Bondsmith powers, Melishi used the Dawnshard to bind Ba-Ado-Mishram.
    • Melishi was bound to the Sibling (not confirmed)
    • The reason for the Sibling's status as a deadeye is that in order to bind Ba-Ado-Mishram, Melishi had to break his oaths/go against his oaths.
    • As the Sleepless said in Dawnshard, they don't want heavily-Invested individuals (Radiants) using Dawnshards because of the combination of Command + Intent. Maybe the nature of one of Melishi's Oaths was the promise not to take too much power for himself (as the Bondsmiths' goal is to bring people together, not to be the sole authority) and his wielding of the Dawnshard caused him to break his Oaths.
  • WAYYYY-out-there theory: Raboniel is Ba-Ado-Mishram
    • She's viewed as above the Nine and very intellectual/clever, Ba-Ado-Mishram was seen as "keen of mind, a highprincess of the enemy forces" (Hessi's Mythica)
    • Melishi bound her to Braize using the Dawnshard the way Ishar bound the Fused to Braize.
  • More plausible theory: Raboniel will free Ba-Ado-Mishram at the same time that Navani bonds to the Sibling
    • The Fused are counting on Jasnah and Dalinar, resident Elsecaller and Bondsmith, to be out of Urithuru when they send their strike team (which seems plausible with them going to Emul), but Navani staying at the tower will thwart this.
  • Theory: Ba-Ado-Mishram is the inverse Bondsmith among the Unmade
    • She grants access to Voidlight the way Dalinar grants access to Stormlight
    • I know in a WoB somewhere Brandon said that the connections between the Unmade and the Knights Radiant Orders were more "nebulous" than straightforward, but it seems interesting.
    • If Ba-Ado-Mishram is tied to the Bondsmiths, then what are the other Unmade tied to? (this may need another thread)
      • Nergaoul was trapped in a ruby so maybe tied to Dustbringers? (the Thrill is all about losing control, Dustbringer Oaths center around control; Order's polestone is a ruby)
      • Moelach= Truthwatchers? (deals with futuresight, difference is that Truthwatchers heal while Moelach brings Death Rattles)
      • Can't figure out the other ones right now
  • The metal that the Fused have that allows them to "conduct Stormlight" (from Navani's epigraphs) is chromium.
    • In Allomancy, Chromium Mistings (Leechers) make the Allomancy reserves of the target vanish. (Scadrian equivalent of Stormlight?)
  • The Sibling's "heart" is the fabrial at the heart of the tower
Spoiler

Reactions:

  • When Kaladin was relieved of active duty my heart broke
  • same with his panic attack
  • I love the interactions between Adolin, Shallan/Veil/Radiant, and Kaladin
  • Adolin is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters in the whole cosmere
  • The scene where Rock and Kaladin say goodbye, I just burst into tears. Instantaneously.
  • The maneuvering of Jasnah and Dalinar away from Urithuru is necessary but the entire time the rulers' council was happening I was like no!!! don't go!! you're playing into their plans!!! But I understand that this is probably a plotpoint for Navani to bond with the Sibling. Likewise, is this an opportunity for another Elsecaller to appear?
  • I have mixed feelings about Kaladin returning to the role of a surgeon because
    • 1. it feels like a cop-out for some reason but I get that Kaladin needs purpose right now apart from being Highmarshal, and this is another way to save people. Additionally, Lirin seemed a bit too smug about it
    • 2. This seems like a good segway into Kaladin swearing the Fourth Ideal (which I think he'll do this book). I've always thought that the Windrunners' Fourth Ideal is something along the lines of "I will accept that there are people that I can't protect/save" and maybe he'll bond with someone as a surgeon that can't be healed through Stormlight or normal means and he'll have to accept that.
  • All this talk about Kaladin needing a romantic partner makes me think he'll get one in this book or the next, and he'll be in SA 6-10 with a family
  • I just want him to be happy
  • I was neutral to Shallan in all three prior books but I'm kind of not liking her this book. Maybe that'll change once I read the whole thing.

Sorry in advance for the length! I edited down the veritable word vomit from the google doc into this. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts/reactions too! I'm not going into any other RoW threads for risk of further spoilers but I just can't wait three days for more discussion.

Third Disclaimer: None of these theories are hills that I would die on so PLEASE feel free to shoot holes in them. Happy reading!

Edited by spitfireky
title clarification
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1 hour ago, spitfireky said:
  • Where in the cosmere is Thaidakar from & have we seen him in any books before?
  • We don't know.
  • Using an unsealed metalmind keyed to Connection, would it be possible for heavily-Invested individuals native to Roshar to worldhop? (excluding Willshapers and Elsecallers)- asking this because of what Mraize said to Shallan in Chapter 13:
    • “The same limitation restrains people who are themselves heavily Invested. Radiants, spren—anyone Connected to Roshar is bound by these laws, and cannot travel farther than Ashyn or Braize. You are imprisoned here, Radiant.”
    • This is where I get iffy on the schematics (like would it even be theoretically possible for someone from Roshar to use an untapped metalmind)
    • I think that they could store their connection to get offworld, but I don't know for certain.
  • What power does Mraize's Aviar have?
  • I don't think that we know.
  • Are the holes in Shallan's memory entirely self-inflicted or do they have something to do with the Ghostbloods?
  • They are self-inflicted as far as we know.
  • What "brand" is missing from the Fused? (since there's only 9 varieties and the Radiants have 10)
  • I believe it is the Bondsmith equivalent.
  • Why is Alethkar called the "Land of the Second Advance" in the Fuseds' language?
  • I don't know. Maybe because the humans attacked once and captured a the other countries, and then captured the area that is now Althekar in a second attack?
  • Is Nale the only Radiant that has sworn the Fourth Ideal?
  • No, Shallan has sworn the fourth ideal, Jasnah possibly has as well, and a bunch of the Skybreakers have. Nale is the only Radiant (Aside from possibly Jasnah and Hoid) who has sworn the fifth ideal.
  • What specifically enables Worldhoppers to worldhop?
  • Nothing. They just go into the cognitive realm and use it to travel in between worlds.
  • How do the drums that the ardents use in agriculture direct Stormlight?
  • I believe they are emulating the rythyms.
  • Why is the Stormfather prejudiced against the listeners?
  • Probably because they opposed Honor.
  • Is Zahel's shell fossil from Yolen? If so, how did he get it?
  • It's from either Yolen or another planet that was pre-shattering.
  • Can Nightblood be used to permanently kill the Fused? Is Nightblood in any way connected to Moash's knife that he used to kill Jezrien?
    • “These enemies of yours though, I think they’re too strong for that. They’ve lasted thousands of years already, and seem Connected to Odium to feed directly on his power. You’ll have to find a way to disrupt their souls. You can’t just rip them apart; you need a weapon so strong, it unravels the soul.” He squinted, looking off into the distance. “I know through sorry experience those kinds of weapons are very dangerous to make, and never seem to work right.” - Chapter 15
    • What specifically about Nightblood and Moash's knife disrupt victims' Spiritual aspect? I don't know how this ties in, but since the Fused and the Heralds are both some form of Cognitive Shadows, it can be assumed that Moash's knife can also be used on the Fused. Maybe if he ever has a change of heart he'll use it on one of them.
    • Yes, Nightblood can kill the Fused, and in fact, Nightblood permanently killed a thunderclast.
  • ARE JASNAH AND HOID ACTUALLY TOGETHER? I see them more as an intellectual partnership/having mutual respect for one another. Plus, I think having Hoid be a romantic interest would probably make him too much of a "major player" in the series, when his whole schtick is operating behind-the-scenes
  • I do not believe so. I agree that they are having an intellectual partnership.
  • How does the tower (and to an extent, the Sibling) specifically interact with the Investiture in the highstorm? 
  • I don't know.

 

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Where in the cosmere is Thaidakar from & have we seen him in any books before?
R- Roshar I guess. Pretty sure we saw him already in Stormlight, we just don't know yet lol

Using an unsealed metalmind keyed to Connection, would it be possible for heavily-Invested individuals native to Roshar to worldhop? (excluding Willshapers and Elsecallers)- asking this because of what Mraize said to Shallan in Chapter 13:
R- I actually think not even Willshapers nor Elsecallers can use transportation to worldhop, atleast according to Mraize words. Their surgebinding is too tied to Rosharan system to work outside it, which is a shame. About the metalminds, remember only people from Scadrial have acess to Feruchemy, so unless we use some kind of Hemalurgic spike I can't see any native surgebinder of Roshar worldhopping

What power does Mraize's Aviar have?
R- No clue

Are the holes in Shallan's memory entirely self-inflicted or do they have something to do with the Ghostbloods?
R- I'm going for self-inflicted, or at least unrelated to Ghostbloods, they only know about her and are using this knowledge to manipulate her

What "brand" is missing from the Fused? (since there's only 9 varieties and the Radiants have 10)
R- Some Bondsmith surge, I'll bet on Adhesion

Why is Alethkar called the "Land of the Second Advance" in the Fuseds' language?
R- Some reference of from the first Desolation I guess

Is Nale the only Radiant that has sworn the Fourth Ideal?
R- He sworn the fifth actually

What specifically enables Worldhoppers to worldhop?
R- I'm guess they have a diverse set of magic that make them able to worldhop. Most of them use shardpools as a way to enter in cognitive helm. As cognitive helm is closely tied to sapient life, hence galatic spaces without intelligent life are shortened enough to make the travel possible

How do the drums that the ardents use in agriculture direct Stormlight?
R- Something related with the rosharan rhythms singers can listen

Why is the Stormfather prejudiced against the listeners?
R- Is he? Against the listeners specifically? Not singers in general?

Is Zahel's shell fossil from Yolen? If so, how did he get it?
R- Nope, it's from  Roshar. Roshar predate  the shattering, it was designed by Adolnasium 

Can Nightblood be used to permanently kill the Fused? Is Nightblood in any way connected to Moash's knife that he used to kill Jezrien?

R- Yes, it can, Nightblood is able to interrupt the  connection that makes the singers coming back to Roshar. As Zahal explained, both Returned and Singers are dead bodies tied to souls, Nightblood can someway "cut" trough this. Not sure about Moash's knife though

ARE JASNAH AND HOID ACTUALLY TOGETHER? I see them more as an intellectual partnership/having mutual respect for one another. Plus, I think having Hoid be a romantic interest would probably make him too much of a "major player" in the series, when his whole schtick is operating behind-the-scenes
R- I hope so, really like the idea of this couple

How does the tower (and to an extent, the Sibling) specifically interact with the Investiture in the highstorm? 
R- I  don't understand the  question 

Edited by IcaroRibeiro
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2 hours ago, spitfireky said:

What "brand" is missing from the Fused? (since there's only 9 varieties and the Radiants have 10)

Bondsmith according to WoB.  This probably means adhesion.

2 hours ago, spitfireky said:

Can Nightblood be used to permanently kill the Fused? Is Nightblood in any way connected to Moash's knife that he used to kill Jezrien?

Yes and no respectively. 

2 hours ago, spitfireky said:

Is Nale the only Radiant that has sworn the Fourth Ideal?

Jasnah seems to have as well.

2 hours ago, spitfireky said:

What specifically enables Worldhoppers to worldhop?

If you are not heavily invested in certain ways(which most people are) you can go through the CR from planet to planet with relative ease.

2 hours ago, spitfireky said:

ARE JASNAH AND HOID ACTUALLY TOGETHER?

Probably not.  She finds him annoying.

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6 hours ago, spitfireky said:
  • Where in the cosmere is Thaidakar from & have we seen him in any books before?
  • Using an unsealed metalmind keyed to Connection, would it be possible for heavily-Invested individuals native to Roshar to worldhop? (excluding Willshapers and Elsecallers)- asking this because of what Mraize said to Shallan in Chapter 13:
    • “The same limitation restrains people who are themselves heavily Invested. Radiants, spren—anyone Connected to Roshar is bound by these laws, and cannot travel farther than Ashyn or Braize. You are imprisoned here, Radiant.”
    • This is where I get iffy on the schematics (like would it even be theoretically possible for someone from Roshar to use an untapped metalmind)
  • What power does Mraize's Aviar have?
  • Are the holes in Shallan's memory entirely self-inflicted or do they have something to do with the Ghostbloods?
  • What "brand" is missing from the Fused? (since there's only 9 varieties and the Radiants have 10)
  • Why is Alethkar called the "Land of the Second Advance" in the Fuseds' language?
  • Is Nale the only Radiant that has sworn the Fourth Ideal?
  • What specifically enables Worldhoppers to worldhop?
  • How do the drums that the ardents use in agriculture direct Stormlight?
  • Why is the Stormfather prejudiced against the listeners?
  • Is Zahel's shell fossil from Yolen? If so, how did he get it?
  • Can Nightblood be used to permanently kill the Fused? Is Nightblood in any way connected to Moash's knife that he used to kill Jezrien?
    • “These enemies of yours though, I think they’re too strong for that. They’ve lasted thousands of years already, and seem Connected to Odium to feed directly on his power. You’ll have to find a way to disrupt their souls. You can’t just rip them apart; you need a weapon so strong, it unravels the soul.” He squinted, looking off into the distance. “I know through sorry experience those kinds of weapons are very dangerous to make, and never seem to work right.” - Chapter 15
    • What specifically about Nightblood and Moash's knife disrupt victims' Spiritual aspect? I don't know how this ties in, but since the Fused and the Heralds are both some form of Cognitive Shadows, it can be assumed that Moash's knife can also be used on the Fused. Maybe if he ever has a change of heart he'll use it on one of them.
  • ARE JASNAH AND HOID ACTUALLY TOGETHER? I see them more as an intellectual partnership/having mutual respect for one another. Plus, I think having Hoid be a romantic interest would probably make him too much of a "major player" in the series, when his whole schtick is operating behind-the-scenes
  • How does the tower (and to an extent, the Sibling) specifically interact with the Investiture in the highstorm? 

• We haven't seen Thaidakar yet, so we don't know if it's an alias or what

• There are ways to overcome the Connection problem and Worldhop, we know this, though we don't know the particulars.

A Metalmind that gives anyone who wears it the ability to tap it (by allowing them to use Investiture and the Investiture not being keyed to any specific individual, which we know is possible) is possible, and can be used by anyone

• We don't know what power Mraize's Aviar has. Possibly Lifesense (he's displayed a sixth sense for detecting people) or mind detection blocker (they seem to be the most common on the Pantheon Isles, the Eelakin and the Homeisles; would be useful in the Cognitive Realm)

• The holes in Shallan's memories... aren't self-inflicted but a result of past trauma, said trauma is connected to Ghostbloods in her past who were connected to the Davar family, so were the Skybreakers. We don't have the full picture yet.

• the Bondsmith equivalent, since the Fused abilities seem similar to one Surge of a Radiant Order, either Tension or Adhesion. Adhesion or binding things seems much closer to Honor, so Adhesion might be the one that's missing

• We don't know yet, not enough information, but we do have a few ideas that you can check out in the particular preview chapter thread as well as one topic in RoW lore & mechanics

• As of now, Nale is the only known Radiant to have sworn the Fifth Ideal, but back before the Day of Recreance there were other Radiants who'd done the same.

I'm assuming you meant to say Fifth Ideal not Fourth but if not, among our current cast, there's no Windrunner of Fourth Oath. Shallan is on her Fourth Truth. Jasnah is hinted to have spoken her Fourth Ideal in Oathbringer.

• Perpendicularities, places where a Shard's power pools naturally and which allows one to travel between the Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual.

• It has something to do with the Rhythms. It seems to utilize Lifespren.

• The Stormfather is also prejudiced against humans because of the Recreance. He's prejudiced against the Singers because they have been on the opposite sides of a very long war

• We don't know where he got that. He said it's not from Roshar or Nalthis. He said Nalthis is too young (which was interesting) and that Roshar might have it but the Highstorm caused crem deposits might also make it difficult to find as the entire landmass is geologically new

• Nightblood could permanently kill a Fused. It seems in the Battle of Thaylen City, he permanently killed a Thunderclast.

Nightblood and Vyre's knife? Hmm... Nightblood destroys across all three Realms and consumes everything, and Vyre's knife traps a Cognitive entity to prevent it from regaining a Physical form

• We haven't had a Jasnah or Hoid PoV in RoW yet, so no confirmation only rumours as per Navani

• Urithiru reacts to the Highstorm by manipulating its temperature and pressure, even while the Sibling is "sleeping", beyond that we don't know

 

The Navani and Melishi predictions are quite popular, and yeah the metal could be Chromium (Allomantic ability of Leeching) or Nicrosil (Feruchemical ability of storing Investiture)

Edited by Honorless
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No Rosharan ppl or indeed anyone lacking Terris genes can't tap metalminds. 

Van dell points out that most of the population of elendel has some Terris blood before revealing the possibility of unkeyed metalminds. 

I believe the south scadrians too had feruchemists or atleast Terrismen among them from before rasheks ascension or they were placed there by him. They interbred heavily with the other races without the oppression thier northern kin faced under TLR.

Much like how the Terris have interbred with the general populace post catecendre , only over 1300 yrs instead of just 300 yrs like in elendel.

Besides the inability to use metalminds would have killed all the non terris related ppl over the last 3 centuries. 

As such unless the Rosharans get some Hemalurgic spikes granting them Terris genes or they breed with the Terris or scadrians they can't access any metalminds , keyed or unkeyed .

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I have suspected for awhile that Mraize's bird somehow causes people to accept his presence and idiosyncrasies, despite how distinctive and weird he is. It seems like he can just show up anywhere and people willingly gloss over his strangeness. Hey Ialai, who's this middle aged weirdo with a slashed up face and an alien pet that he brings to work, that I've never seen in your honor guard before?

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4 minutes ago, earthexile said:

I have suspected for awhile that Mraize's bird somehow causes people to accept his presence and idiosyncrasies, despite how distinctive and weird he is. It seems like he can just show up anywhere and people willingly gloss over his strangeness. Hey Ialai, who's this middle aged weirdo with a slashed up face and an alien pet that he brings to work, that I've never seen in your honor guard before?

What makes you think Ialai's never had him in the honor guard before? I assumed that had always been his day job/cover.

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In Mem's interlude, we see hints that Mraize collects uniforms from different militaries. I get the impression he's sneaking around behind a lot of peoples' scenes.

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