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RoW Chapter 19 Discussion

152 posts in this topic

43 minutes ago, Michael Portz said:

Do not worry! 
Ask yourself instead, who of the Radiant protagonists will be left to defend Urithuru when everybody else is on important missions ...

Remember when Kaladin was sitting in his room hopelessly depressed until Syl fetched Adolin and Adolin forced him to socialize a bit and he felt better afterwards? 

Quote

“Adolin?” Kaladin said as he changed. “Your first thought was to get Adolin?”

“I needed someone you couldn’t intimidate,” she replied. “That list at best includes three people. And the queen was likely to transform you into a crystal goblet or something.”

All 3 of those people who can force or encourage Kaladin to better take care of himself are leaving (Adolin, Dalinar, Jasnah).  

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Wouldn't it be wonderful if Hav happened to be wandering around Urithiru.

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24 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Remember when Kaladin was sitting in his room hopelessly depressed until Syl fetched Adolin and Adolin forced him to socialize a bit and he felt better afterwards? 

All 3 of those people who can force or encourage Kaladin to better take care of himself are leaving (Adolin, Dalinar, Jasnah).  

Time to go for another introspective session with Zahel.

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6 hours ago, HipsterStick said:

As a final chapter for part one, this felt very- understated? I suppose? Which is certainly not a bad thing, but it feels like it fits a different pattern than the other SA books. Still, I appreciated that we got some more Coalition politics. 

 

I'd call this a blessing for us considering how part 1 of Oathbringer ended & the torment of that FULL week until the rest of the book.

 

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but the beginning of this chapter reminded me why I never liked mechanics in school & I was always more interested in disscusing characters :ph34r: The beginning was a bit of a slog for me, not gonna lie. 

As many already stated, I also think that Lift going to Shadesmar with Shallan & Adolin would've made for some cool interactions. I always kind of hoped that Lift & Shallan will become friends as we don't see that many girl friendships in this book & they also seem to have had traumatic childhoods. In my mind Lift's quirckiness would do for Shallan what she does for others (eg. alleviating some of Kaladin's burderns). 

I am really excited for Navani in this book. In this first part I've felt the influence & repercusions of Gavilar's words from the prologue towards her. While it's obvious she is a strong woman on some fronts, it seems like she places herself in this mindset of "ohh.. i'm not smart, i just had the privilege of working with smart people". For me that reads as a big insecurity. I cannot wait to see her realising, owning & be proud of the fact that even though she's not the nerd Rushu is, her ability to delegate the right people for the right jobs & steering them in a certain direction is a skill in itselft and not many would be able to do it. 

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9 minutes ago, mariapapadia said:

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but the beginning of this chapter reminded me why I never liked mechanics in school & I was always more interested in disscusing characters :ph34r: The beginning was a bit of a slog for me, not gonna lie.

If you're in the minority opinion, then I'm in it with you. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the effort and unique creativity that Brandon has brought to his world and magic systems. He's second to none in that regard (imo). However, I'm always first and foremost (especially now as an adult) interested in characters, their journeys, their interpersonal relationships. The cosmere, realmatic theory, adonalsium, etc are all toppings on the sundae for me. Really good, unique, interesting toppings, but toppings nonetheless. WoK and WoR really sold me on the characters, and hooked me into continuing to read, though OB kind of flatlined for me in this regard. Hoping to get reinvested into them for RoW, though this time around, I'm hedging my bets by only getting the ebook upon release.

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It's way too big of a coincidence that shortly after Shallan gets a Ghostblood mission to travel to Lasting Integrity a diplomatic envoy is assembled by the monarchs to go just there.  What's more Sizgil makes recommendations in such a way that basically guarantees Shallan will be a part of the mission.

Quote

Sigzil grimaced. “That might be a bad idea. We Windrunners… we’re acting in defiance of honorspren law. We’d make the worst envoys, because of… well, they don’t much like Kaladin, to be honest. If one of us showed up at their fortress, they might try to arrest us.

“My advice is to send a small but important contingent of other Radiants. Specifically, Radiants who have bonded spren whose relatives approve of what we’re doing. They can make arguments on our behalf.”

What's Sizgil's game here?

Edited by Subvisual Haze
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2 hours ago, Karnage said:

Y'all are calling the Adolin theories too soon. I mean that sounds like an epic thing for him to do but I beleive that Brandon has a huge twist in there. I don't know what the twist is but it will probably be there. He knows just the way to lead our imaginations with a string only for us to find out that it is heading the opposite direction.

I've had my own theories on what is really in store for Adolin. I really really really hope that his plotline isn't going to follow the straightforward projection that Brandon has laid out here. I'm waiting to be "pleasantly surprised" by some kind of interesting character arc for him. I'm really hoping that his attachment/enthusiasm towards Maya is a result of his desire for some distraction from his problems where his current life situation is concerned. Problems that will have some real world external consequences to him.

Alas, I fear that Adolin's true purpose in this novel will be to allow Brandon to obfuscate and misdirect us, the readers, from things going on with Shallan that he wants to hide, or surprise us with. I fear that Adolin's writing this book is just to serve as our "reliable narrator" for the expedition, whose viewpoints will give Brandon the creative leeway he needs to continue to build Shallan's arc, with a few sentences of thoughts or emotions here and there in each of his viewpoints so that he doesn't come across as a complete plank of wood.

To be seen. I feel I'll know which after reading his first viewpoint.

Edited by DeployParachute
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4 hours ago, the_archduke said:

Why do I feel like people are rooting for Adolin to die. 

Any development involving Adolin... OH NOES, AduhLIN is going to DIEE!!!111!!!11  It may happen.  But nothing that was just released makes it any more likely than before.  Are these Shalladin shippers that refuse to admit defeat?

I am looking forward to the embassy storyline.  I am looking forward to Adolin and Shallan's relationship being explored further.  Those were some of my favorite chapters in Oathbringer.  

Adolin dying doesn't change anything WRT Shalladin. It'd make it a second choice anyway. If you need to have it in military language, a "victory" would be to show they don't work well together, not have Adolin die heroically and Shallan mourn over her perfect husband.

So no, the reason people think Adolin will die is that he still has no character development, no interesting places where his arc is set up to go (Maya revival is super predictable at this point + it'd remove Adolin's last unique characteristic in that he's a "normal" guy). The point is, nothing that was just released has challenged that, so it looks like this state of things is intentional.

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1 hour ago, Nathrangking said:

Ah, but Venli must kidnap her to learn her ways!!!

Wait- who does Venli need to kidnap, Lift or Navani? Either one has a lot of possibility... hmm...

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7 minutes ago, HipsterStick said:

Wait- who does Venli need to kidnap, Lift or Navani? Either one has a lot of possibility... hmm...

The epicness of Lift teaching Venli how to be a radiant though.....

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32 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

The epicness of Lift teaching Venli how to be a radiant though.....

“You’ve got to use your awesomeness” The strange little Reshi girl standing on the crate in front of Venli said. Venli blinked slowly, attuning confusion.

“My- awesomeness? Pardon but what is ‘awesomeness’, young one?”

The girl- Lift, as she had called herself- slapped her palm to her head in frustration. “Storms woman, I don’t know why I try with you.” She placed her hands on her hips and tapped her foot frustratedly, scrunching her face as if in deep thought. 

”Awesomeness,” the girl finally said “is like the feeling you get when you steal a nice warm Horneater soup- and then eat it. All of it. Shells and all. It makes you feel all fuzzy and excited inside, like a storm- only, not in your stomach but everywhere. In your whole body.”

Venli perked up. It sounds as if she’s describing Stormlight. Could it be?

”And” Venli said cautiously, “How does one- obtain this awesomeness, wise one?”

A crack resounded as the young girl smacked Venli’s head with a wooden spoon. Venli stumbled away, cursing and massaging the spot the girl had struck her with the cooking implement. What in Damnation was wrong with this strange vagrant of a child?

”Were you even listening!?!?” Lift yelled, gesticulating wildly. “It’s like I said- you’ve got to eat the soup! Storms, you’re almost as bad as the creepy bald guy- the only difference is he had the talking sword to help him out.” Lift gave a long, melodramatic sigh before plopping herself down on the edge of the crate. “Here, let’s start from the beginning...”

—————————————————————

Storms... now I really really want this...

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the scientist in me exhults at seeing the concept of kinetic energy used properly in a fantasy book. excellent

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I got the reference to Stonewards in the coalition I've been waiting for. Now what do we think their numbers are? I doubt they're a small group of Radiants. Probably close to or at the amount of bonded Windrunners the coalition has.

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1 hour ago, Subvisual Haze said:

What's Sizgil's game here?

Please don't let Sigzil be the Mazrim Taim of the series!

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28 minutes ago, Czernobog said:

Please don't let Sigzil be the Mazrim Taim of the series!

Some connection to the ghostbloods does seem an unpleasant possibility for Sigzil here.  On the other hand he was Hoid's apprentice at one point, so maybe this is some elaborate play by Hoid to get Shallan where she needs to be because "destiny".  

Or it's just a rather large plot contrivance (hope not, but possible)

Edited by Subvisual Haze
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4 hours ago, robardin said:

Not sure about #1 - we see Taravangian looking "sharper" at this meeting and Navani reflects on how he's ditched the "slow of mind" routine, but we don't know that he doesn't just seclude himself on his "softer" days. The "gentle, kind, and slow of mind" persona was always one he'd projected as a consistent cover, not just when he really was that way in a severe way due to his "affliction."

This was how I interpreted it as well. The coalition does not know about his condition, so they think his whole slow of mind thing was a full on act, when really it was just an act some of the time. 
 

I feel better that Dalinar seems to have the correct read on him, though. He’s an enemy we know and understand. But I think the mystery left with him is “will he or won’t he” when it comes down to it, as well as some of the other theories about what will happen when he hits his “most compassionate day” if his “smartest day” produced the diagram.

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10 hours ago, HipsterStick said:

Sanderson definitely missed a chance to have Lift go with the envoy... if only for the potential humor alone.
 

Lift does not always follow what others tell her, and shows up where not expected, if she want to go I think she will. 

Edited by FollowYourMuse
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As fun as it is to read, I'm not always in the mood for Lift's flippancy, Think the Shallan/Adolin team will be awesome. Would be especially awesome if the plot would be wrapped up with Adolin reviving Maya and this action itself is what moves the Honorspren to seek the oaths again. To be honest, now that I think about it, I think that'd be the only justification of Adolin reviving Maya this book that would be okay with me. 

 

Also, Old Man T needs to learn about social distancing. 

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With regards to Lift going on the Shadesmar mission - apparently, it was an idea Brandon was toying with:

Ugh, I can't wait until next week!

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11 hours ago, lightweaver spy said:

If you’ll don your aluminum hat with me - isn’t it odd that Taravangian no longer requires aides and is, according to Navani, very lucid and present basically all the time now? Shouldn’t he still be having his “stupid” compassion days?

I noticed this. It is very odd, something is up. masked?  Swallowed a gem? Odium working through him? 

Edited by FollowYourMuse
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27 minutes ago, Seed said:

With regards to Lift going on the Shadesmar mission - apparently, it was an idea Brandon was toying with:

Ugh, I can't wait until next week!

 

1 hour ago, FollowYourMuse said:

Lift does not always follow what others tell her, and shows up where not expected, if she want to go I think she will. 

That is a good point.

Brandon evidently wanted to write Lift into the ambassadorial mission. He is the author so what he says goes, but as a good author, he also realized that from an in-world POV, "Dalinar and Navani would never have chosen her to be one of the envoys".

That doesn't mean he changed his mind, plotwise - just that it wouldn't be plausible for the characters in-world to send her. So she doesn't not go on the mission. Just... Wasn't sent by Dalinar and Navani!

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23 minutes ago, FollowYourMuse said:

I noticed this. It is very odd, something is up. masked?  Swallowed a gem? Odium working through him? 

The more I thought about this today, the more it seems like Odium may be directly interfering in some way. Perhaps Odium is like.. infusing T with investiture in a way so that his baseline intelligence is just normal, or slightly above? This could also have an advantage of making sure T doesn’t get too smart again and wriggle out of their deal somehow. 

 

I have absolutely no evidence for this though, pure conjecture. 

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7 hours ago, mariapapadia said:

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but the beginning of this chapter reminded me why I never liked mechanics in school & I was always more interested in disscusing characters :ph34r: The beginning was a bit of a slog for me, not gonna lie. 

As an engineer in the energy industry, my reaction was the complete opposite. The fabrial wind turbines had me smiling from ear to ear.

But to each their own of course ^_^

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15 hours ago, Michael Portz said:

Why ... is the title of this chapter "Garnets" ???

I’m pretty sure it is because both the fabrial and the column had four matching garnets on them in a similar pattern. I wish it would have been called Four Garnets to throw in a reference to the ending of the chapter. 

15 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

 

I thought brandon said that each part was supposed to culminate in their own little climax?

that was rather anticlimactic, 

 

I think that the chapter could have also been called Fourth Warmth. I’m sure that while the ending of this chapter was not overtly climatic for the readers, the ending of part one was very climatic for Navani & Dalinar.   

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16 hours ago, Karger said:

When did we get stonewards?  Seriously they just showed up?  Do we have all ten orders at the tower?  There goes that theory I guess.

STONEWARDS.....

NOTHING DRIVES ME MORE TO READ ROW THAN THESE FOLKS...

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