Interesting bit of info about Aethers from a new WoB

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Quote

/u/n122333
Will we see other cosmere settings where the people don't have magic, but the world does, like in Sixth, and shadows?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes, you will see more like this. (Many of the settings that involve Aethers can be like this, for example.)

Well well, this is intriguing for a couple reasons.

First off, "many of the settings that involve Aethers"? Sounds a lot like multiple planets have Aethers, which would be very interesting. That, or the Aether planet varies a lot in how Aethers naturally interact with things.

Second off, that's certainly not how Aethers were in the novel. We do know that Aether of Night could be canonized relatively easily, and that the magic is mostly the same. So Aethers being used as they are in the novel is possible. But it's also possible to have environmental magic with them? What would that be? Wild Aethers, capable of using their powers on their own (almost like a proper PR version of spren)? Animals bonding to Aethers (which could have some pretty cool possibilities)? Combination of both? I am very curious to see these settings.

Source for the WoB is a Dawnshard spoiler thread, but the question was only very tangentially related to the story, so I feel fine posting it? But unless you've read Dawnshard, do not click the link to the source.

[Eternal Khol]

Interesting.

Thats not the first WoB to make it sound like Aethers are a multiple planet thing.

I have a feeling that “aether” is just a generalization like the word “bug” 

one word to describe a variety of things.

 

Maybe the nature part has to do with the sources of the Aethers?(if thats still a thing)

maybe they’re a natural part of their world(s)(we know they might be pre-shattering so it makes sense)and humans just found them and what they can do. And so started bonding them.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[LewsTherinTelescope]

7 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Thats not the first WoB to make it sound like Aethers are a multiple planet thing.

Oh, it isn't? I hadn't seen others before (just ones about them being moved to Yolen completely), cool.

7 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

I have a feeling that “aether” is just a generalization like the word “bug” 

one word to describe a closely related variety of things.

Hmm, could be. Or like how "spren" refers to a lot of things.

8 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Maybe the nature part has to do with the sources of the Aethers?(if thats still a thing)

Oh duh, I forgot all about the sources. Maybe animals can eat from the Verdant source, or eat food containing bits of Amberite near whatever their source is, etc, and gain power?

9 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

maybe they’re a natural part of their world(s)(we know they might be pre-shattering so it makes sense)and humans just found them and what they can do. And so started bonding them.

Yeah, that would make sense. Most non-Shardic magics are along those lines, it seems like. And that could match with Aethers being more sapient in Liar. Wild Aethers would be pretty cool. Society of sapient vines or something.

[Eternal Khol]

19 minutes ago, beewall said:

Oh, it isn't? I hadn't seen others before (just ones about them being moved to Yolen completely), cool.

Theres this one. Quite ambiguous.

Spoiler

rektosaurusd

Also, is there anyone in the Cosmere I could make for X?!

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm. Xisis. He'll show up eventually.

CephandriusTW

I have just seen this and I'm curious. Is there any information about Xisis that you could give us before entering RAFO territory?

Brandon Sanderson

Not human, from Yolen, currently hanging out on a planet quite near to where you can find a lot of the aethers.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 6, 2020)

he’s either saying that this person is on a "planet A" and he’s geographically close the a lot of the Aethers.

of he’s saying that the person is on a "planet b"(which is close to planet a) while “planet a” has a lot of the Aethers

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, beewall said:

Oh duh, I forgot all about the sources. Maybe animals can eat from the Verdant source, or eat food containing bits of Amberite near whatever their source is, etc, and gain power?

Thats what i was thinking. And Brandon probably has a couple new Aethers in store that might be more focused on nature

 

or maybe its not even the Aethers themselves that are the nature part, and there are other things

Edited November 9, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[LewsTherinTelescope]

29 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

he’s either saying that this person is on a "planet A" and he’s geographically close the a lot of the Aethers.

of he’s saying that the person is on a "planet b"(which is close to planet a) while “planet a” has a lot of the Aethers

...huh. I've seen that WoB, but missed that implication. But combined with the new WoB.... interesting. Very interesting.

30 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

And Brandon probably has a couple new Aethers in store that might be more focused on nature

Could be, wouldn't surprise me. The potential for multiple planets could also mean different kinds on each one.

30 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

or maybe its not even the Aethers themselves that are the nature part, and there are other things

Could be, but him bringing Aethers up seems odd if so.

[Eternal Khol]

Heres another interesting Aether WoB

This makes me wonder if any of the tech(or anything) in the Sixth of the Dusk Sequel reading, was an Aether?(he does say “behind-the-scenes”, so probably not)

 

Questioner

Are there still six different types of Aethers in current canon? Or has that changed?

Brandon Sanderson

They have expanded. I’m using the Aethers behind the scenes for a lot of space age things. And because I’m doing that, I am adding in a few more Aethers. There’s going to be some limits on this. I’m tweaking which Aethers I’m actually making, ‘cause some of them didn’t work as well as other ones.

There will end up being more, but I won’t canonize the number until I have the Aether book ready to release.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020)

[Frustration]

20 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Heres another interesting Aether WoB

This makes me wonder if any of the tech(or anything) in the Sixth of the Dusk Sequel reading, was an Aether?(he does say “behind-the-scenes”, so probably not)

 

Questioner

Are there still six different types of Aethers in current canon? Or has that changed?

Brandon Sanderson

They have expanded. I’m using the Aethers behind the scenes for a lot of space age things. And because I’m doing that, I am adding in a few more Aethers. There’s going to be some limits on this. I’m tweaking which Aethers I’m actually making, ‘cause some of them didn’t work as well as other ones.

There will end up being more, but I won’t canonize the number until I have the Aether book ready to release.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020)

intresting is that maybe

SoTD 2 spoilers

Spoiler

What that Box was?

 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

22 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Heres another interesting Aether WoB

This makes me wonder if any of the tech(or anything) in the Sixth of the Dusk Sequel reading, was an Aether?(he does say “behind-the-scenes”, so probably not)

 

Questioner

Are there still six different types of Aethers in current canon? Or has that changed?

Brandon Sanderson

They have expanded. I’m using the Aethers behind the scenes for a lot of space age things. And because I’m doing that, I am adding in a few more Aethers. There’s going to be some limits on this. I’m tweaking which Aethers I’m actually making, ‘cause some of them didn’t work as well as other ones.

There will end up being more, but I won’t canonize the number until I have the Aether book ready to release.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020)

Hmm, that is very interesting. I can imagine Ferrous having some uses, but otherwise, I think it'd all have to be new ones. Though maybe Amberite could like patch things up temporarily or something.

[Criggleworth]

That has me wondering if there will be "tiers" of aethers similar to the differences between the nature spren and the Radiant spren. Smaller aethers that are more natural and form easier bonds, like with Aviar, and the heavy duty ones like Amberite and Verdant that form deeper bonds.

[Honorless]

I wonder...

Quote

LewsTherinTelescope

Something I've been curious about: will Liar of Partinel be released as a Sanderson Curiosity eventually? I noticed that in the stream a while back where you listed your unpublished books, you didn't list it among them.

Also, you gave four approximate sort of "quality tiers", of

1. Decent but not great: White Sand, Aether, WoKP, Dragonsteel Prime
2. Readable but not good: Final Empire Prime, Mistborn Prime
3. Bad but not horrible: Knight Life, Star's End, Sixth Incarnation of Pandora
4. Just plain terrible: White Sand Prime/Lord Mastrell, Mythwalker

Which tier would Liar be in?

Brandon Sanderson

Liar would be #2, I'd think. Problem is, it's close enough to continuity (having been written after I'd outlined the cosmere) that I wouldn't want to actually release it until after I've done the actual Hoid backstory book. I've changed some dramatic things about how I want to present the story, so it would be bad to release this one.

We've reached a point where Dragonsteel, however, wouldn't be a spoiler. So I'm tempted to release that one in the next kickstarter. I've been kicking around the idea of an actual revision of White Sand, to make it publishable, and release that as an actual cannon novel. It's the only one that could happen to.

ItchyDoggg

Does this mean there is no chance of a cannon version of Aether of Night ever being published? I really enjoyed it and think a fully polished version would be fantastic.

Brandon Sanderson

It is unlikely, but not impossible. Aether could be made cannon with only slight changes--but it doesn't fit into the larger cosmere story any longer, so I don't know of how much interest it would be.

LewsTherinTelescope

To clarify, you're referring to the actual Aether of Night novel, not the future rewritten Aether books that you've mentioned before, right? Or are those not likely anymore either?

Since Aether of Night could be canon with slight changes, I assume the Aethers in the book will be mostly canon as they are, at least in your current outline?

If you were to revise Aether to be canon, would you be replacing Ruin and Preservation with two other Shards, or would you be more likely to just remove Ruin convincing the Twins to imprison Preservation?

Brandon Sanderson

Future Aether books are very likely. And the aethers themselves are going to be very like the ones in the book.

If I did try to make it cannon, I'd probably remove the whole Shard plot from the book and instead either use another Shard, or not add a new one, since the Aethers (as I have them now in the notes) function without a Shard's involvement, and even predate the shattering. (Note, that's not yet canon.)

Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 8, 2020)

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Pagerunner

Are the Aethers from one of the Shards that we know? Or are they of a Shard we haven't learned about?

Brandon Sanderson

Right now they are pre-Shattering.

But I will probably change that.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

if they are pre-Shattering, that will be interesting and they'll join the vaunted halls of Adonalsium magics alongside Microkinesis (now canonical) and Tzai Blows (which are not yet canon) and Yolish Lightweaving.

RoW spoilers

Spoiler

But if there is a Shard there, can we guess which Shard it is? (assuming it's one of the ones mentioned)

I'm guessing Whimsy

RoW Ars Arcana spoilers

Spoiler

Whoever and whatever Foil is ("whatever" because he's "deep within the ocean") what exactly do they mean by "achieving control over the Aethers"?

He hasn't been able to Bond an Aether? He wants to control the market for Aethers? He wants to understand the underlying mechanics of how they work?

 

Also Khriss and Foil having different theories regarding the Aethers and Khriss thinking that the discovery of anti-Light proves that she was right. That makes me think some of the Aethers have anti-Investiture like properties or were theorised by the Worldhoppers studying them to make use of anti-Investiture.

 

It would be very appropriate for the Aethers to predate the Shattering of Adonalsium given how it's one of Brandon's oldest magic system ideas.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Honorless

[LewsTherinTelescope]

10 minutes ago, Honorless said:

RoW spoilers

  Hide contents

But if there is a Shard there, can we guess which Shard it is? (assuming it's one of the ones mentioned)

I'm guessing Whimsy

Spoiler

There was a WoB that implied there may be aethers on multiple planets, in which case it'd be multiple Shards most likely.

But if it was just one, I like the idea that the hypothetical "Anguish" Shard (questioner asked if there's an Anguish Shard, they were told "while I can't confirm yet for various reasons, I think you should share that idea") could have been Shattered (not just Splintered, but actually split into two parts) into Slaughter and Despair, to bring our favorite pair of Twins back.

 

10 minutes ago, Honorless said:

RoW Ars Arcana spoilers

  Hide contents

Whoever and whatever Foil is ("whatever" because he's "deep within the ocean") what exactly do they mean by "achieving control over the Aethers"?

He hasn't been able to Bond an Aether? He wants to control the market for Aethers? He wants to understand the underlying mechanics of how they work?

Spoiler

Yeah, that raised so many questions with one line.

 

[Rorzikel]

Spoiler

On 12/2/2020 at 0:52 AM, Honorless said:

But if there is a Shard there, can we guess which Shard it is? (assuming it's one of the ones mentioned)

I'm guessing Whimsy

I dunno, the method of initiation we saw in AoN doesn't seem particularly variable or playful. Pieces of the original are broken off and then attempted to be bonded with. If it's a known shard, I'd hazard Invention or Valor have a slightly better claim.

 

[Eternal Khol]

we know that the Shard's Intent has a role to play in the initiation of a magic system

we also know that the Aethers will be "very like" how we saw them in Aether of Night

 

if they are like how they were in AoN, I dont see how finding and bonding something(probably) similar to a spren or something can be seen as Whimsy.

I feel like it probably be Invention or one of the ones we dont know.

 

[+Oltux72]

On 4.12.2020 at 6:03 AM, Eternal Khol said:

we know that the Shard's Intent has a role to play in the initiation of a magic system

we also know that the Aethers will be "very like" how we saw them in Aether of Night

 

Now I am being confused. If they are pre-Shattering, how is a Shard supposed to influence the Initiation?

On 4.12.2020 at 6:03 AM, Eternal Khol said:

if they are like how they were in AoN, I dont see how finding and bonding something(probably) similar to a spren or something can be seen as Whimsy.

Whimsy seems really ideal for the kite magic story. Like you start a kite in a thunderstorm and Whimsy gives some random magic ability for an arbitrary amount of time and/or number of uses. Or if Whimsy feels particularly whimsical, you'll be charcoal.

 

On 9.11.2020 at 4:09 PM, Eternal Khol said:

Thats not the first WoB to make it sound like Aethers are a multiple planet thing.

 

Brandon on the Aether world

This suggests that there is an original Aether world with an associated number. And this confuses me. Doesn't an associated number mean an associated Shard? But they are pre-shattering?

A Shard settling on a world with a fully developed pre-shattering magic system? Why?

 

On 9.11.2020 at 4:09 PM, Eternal Khol said:

I have a feeling that “aether” is just a generalization like the word “bug” 

What then is the difference between an aviar and an aether?

 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

5 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Doesn't an associated number mean an associated Shard?

You're assuming the numbers come from the Shards, which I would disagree with. I find it more likely they arise from the perception of people on the planet, which can sometimes lead to association with the Shards of that world. For example, Rosharans believe in ten fundamental forces, therefore the magic focuses on that (we've been told were SA on Earth, it would likely result in four powers based on our four fundamental forces).

[+Oltux72]

14 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

You're assuming the numbers come from the Shards, which I would disagree with. I find it more likely they arise from the perception of people on the planet, which can sometimes lead to association with the Shards of that world. For example, Rosharans believe in ten fundamental forces, therefore the magic focuses on that (we've been told were SA on Earth, it would likely result in four powers based on our four fundamental forces).

I am afraid this cannot be. The numer on Scadrial was 16 before people knew that there are 16 metals.

[Weltall]

On 12/22/2020 at 2:23 PM, Oltux72 said:

Now I am being confused. If they are pre-Shattering, how is a Shard supposed to influence the Initiation?

A Shard settling on a world with a fully developed pre-shattering magic system? Why?

All the Investiture in the Cosmere got associated with the Shards, so if a Shard happened upon a world with a magic system that went to them, they could put their own little spin on it. We know from WoBs on Sixth of the Dusk that the magic on First of the Sun could have arisen without the active involvement of a Shard but at the same time, Autonomy has now influenced the world. I imagine that the main Aether world could be similar.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Weltall

[Daycrow]

On 12/22/2020 at 3:46 PM, Oltux72 said:

I am afraid this cannot be. The numer on Scadrial was 16 before people knew that there are 16 metals.

Did the people of Scadrial know about all of the main 16 metals before the Lord Ruler came to power?

[Frustration]

On 12/22/2020 at 3:46 PM, Oltux72 said:

I am afraid this cannot be. The numer on Scadrial was 16 before people knew that there are 16 metals.

they knew, or at least some did, they just didn't know which ones

[Weltall]

Bumping this because it's the most relevant topic for this info, I just came across a WoB where Brandon appears to have decided on the number of Aethers for the reworking:

Quote

But it was a nice number for what I wanted to do; not too big, not too small, and I liked how the divisions broke down. And I knew I was going to do 10 with Roshar by that point. If I was gonna pick 10, I would have to use 10 again in Mistborn, which I could do, but I wanted to have different themes. I wanted their tables and math to look a little different visually on the page, since they were two pillars. So 10 and 16 felt like the two good pillars. The Aether world is a 12 world, so we'll have a 12 also. The Aether world does not play into things nearly as much, but it'll depend on how many books I write using the Aethers in the future. YouTube Livestream 23 (Dec. 17, 2020)

Combined with the earlier WoB about how he's adding new Aethers, it seems we have our upper limit on how many we're gonna be looking at, though it's also possible that instead of there being twelve distinct Aethers we'll be looking at something more like an internal/external or pushing/pulling distinction where you have fewer Aethers but multiple associated powers. Either way, it gives us something to work with.

Oh, and based on that older WoB I'm guessing that Bestarian is one of the ones that "didn't work as well", being kinda just there as far as the Aethers go. Ferrous to me sounds like it would be super-interesting Realmatically so I'm hoping it stays even if it gets tweaked a bit. Amberite's basically canonized thanks to WoR and while cultivationspren seem to have been inspired by Verdant I don't see any reason that one couldn't be tweaked a bit and still used. The real mystery is whether the 'God Aethers' would remain despite the rewriting since the way the whole system works is likely to be very different now. Since teleportation is still a cool power I could easily see Night and Illuminous being reworked but without the secondary effects.

[+Oltux72]

7 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Bumping this because it's the most relevant topic for this info, I just came across a WoB where Brandon appears to have decided on the number of Aethers for the reworking:

Combined with the earlier WoB about how he's adding new Aethers, it seems we have our upper limit on how many we're gonna be looking at, though it's also possible that instead of there being twelve distinct Aethers we'll be looking at something more like an internal/external or pushing/pulling distinction where you have fewer Aethers but multiple associated powers. Either way, it gives us something to work with.

12 is divisible by 4, 3 and 2. Given that Aethers are the most universal powers possible and that Brandon probably does not want a lot of people running around with half a dozen Aethers I think he will still split them into incompatible groups and likely arrive at 4 groups.

7 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Oh, and based on that older WoB I'm guessing that Bestarian is one of the ones that "didn't work as well", being kinda just there as far as the Aethers go. Ferrous to me sounds like it would be super-interesting Realmatically so I'm hoping it stays even if it gets tweaked a bit. Amberite's basically canonized thanks to WoR and while cultivationspren seem to have been inspired by Verdant I don't see any reason that one couldn't be tweaked a bit and still used.

If this is to be one of those surprisingly densely populated Cosmere worlds, you'll need an Arcane source of food.

7 minutes ago, Weltall said:

The real mystery is whether the 'God Aethers' would remain despite the rewriting since the way the whole system works is likely to be very different now. Since teleportation is still a cool power I could easily see Night and Illuminous being reworked but without the secondary effects.

You need to split the Aether of Night. It is inconsistent and overpowered.

[Weltall]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

You need to split the Aether of Night. It is inconsistent and overpowered.

Hence 'without the secondary effects'. Forget controlling the Fallen since those are likely to not be part of the future books, forget enhancing the power of Amberite because that was a weird situation also tied into a plot thread that might not survive the transition from AoN to Cosmere canon, just go with the obvious power of teleporting yourself versus Illuminous' power of teleporting other people and you'd have something that could work without being overpowered.

[Eternal Khol]

@LewsTherinTelescope

I just saw the new Aether WoB that you asked and uploaded. Its pretty interesting. I always love new stuff on the Aethers.
 

So, Aethers are a multiple planet thing like speculated and it seems theyll be sapient like we saw in the LoP sample vs. what they were in AoN.

i wonder what systems theyve worked there way into? And why they claim to not be from any world?

[Honorless]

The AoN were still sentient though, iirc, but yeah, not sapient like LoP one

WoB in question:

Quote

LewsTherinTelescope

Are the aethers native to multiple worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Currently, no - but they have spread + they claim to be not from any world.

Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

Maybe they don't have a Connection to the world? Could be why they're so important to space age Cosmere

[Eternal Khol]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:45 AM, Honorless said:

The AoN were still sentient though, iirc, but yeah, not sapient like LoP one

WoB in question:

Maybe they don't have a Connection to the world? Could be why they're so important to space age Cosmere

 Ive been wondering if Yolen is still going to be their native planet? Its seems like, through various vague(and rather old) WoB, that after Brandon decided to try out the Aethers in LoP that those plans were never really nixed
 

Also, in a Shardcast interview from January this year Brandon talks about Dragonsteel prime being released for the next kickstarter and whats canon from it and what isn't, and then he just randomly cuts to talking about the Aethers and how he started figuring out how he wants them to function and what not... kinda sus
 

edit 12/11/2021:

Another exiting tidbit about the Aethers!

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

hoid is his own level of dangerous. Any rivals to his ambition/power?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

depends. Some yolish dragons as old/crafty. Could argue the aethers are as ancient or potentially powerful. I would not put them at shard level but they would claim they are. There are some other characters but none on hoid's level.

Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

Seems to be a confirmation that the Aethers still are intented to be Pre-Shattering magics.

     And the fact that people could even see them as being as powerful as Hoid is intriguing. Up till now i thought they werent gonna be that powerful(and the fact that they claim to be at Shardic levels!)

     Because they arent location bound like Aviar i thought they wouldnt be as powerful either like Aviar are. I mean, theyre obviously more powerful than Aviar from what little we known of them, i guess i just underestimated them. I guess i see now why Brandon calls them a core magic system

     Though I guess potentially being around since before the Shattering, being sapient, not being location bound and actually being the magic itself(and the knowledge that comes with it) really puts them up there in terms of knowledge and power ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  XD

Ive absolutely love the Aethers since AoN and it seems that theyre shaping up to possibly be my favorite magic system.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Eternal Khol
Update 12/11/2021