Could Rayse/Odium be a Dawnshard?

[+vetterlinj]

Rayse has killed 4 vessels at this point, and does not seem to have overt support from other Shards in doing so. I was thinking about a wob where Brandon was asked about if Autonomy assisted Odium in his attack on Dominion & Devotion and says 

Quote

RAFO. It is dangerous to attack a Shard with one Shard. Let's say that. And a wise Shard would try to avoid that confrontation unless there are specific reasons they think they would have an advantage.

The idea that Autonomy's assistance was what allowed Odium to win a 2 v 1 contest has never seemed satisfying to me, as even a 2 v 2 does not seem like a certain thing... When combined with the fact that Hoid asks an Avatar of Autonomy for help with Odium (which would seem silly if they'd overtly worked together in the past) it seems that Odium would needed some other (stronger) advantage to ensure victory. A Dawnshard seems to fit that description. I've also wondered why Honor implies things are (nearly?) hopeless in the fight against Odium without the Dawnshards even though Cultivation is still around. However, if Odium has/is/holds a Dawnshard, then it seems more reasonable that the only way that Honor could 'win' would be by tricking/trapping Odium in the Rosharan system, as a direct fight against a Shard+Dawnshard was not something he felt even Honor and Cultivation together could take on.

As there is not a large amount of evidence for this theory (some would say none), I'll try to argue against it: If there are only 4 Dawnshards (it seems there could be 16?) then there are 2 (or 3 if Dalinar is/holds a Dawnshard) of the 4 in the Rosharan system, which seems like a lot. We also don't see anything that jumps out at me in the letters to/from Hoid that suggests to me that Odium is MORE powerful than other Shards. Everyone wants him contained because of what he has done, but not specifically because he's more powerful than anyone else. Additionally, Brandon has said that Rayse won't pick up another Shard because he doesn't want to change and Brandon also says that Dawnshards change your spirit (though who knows how this would work with a Vessel).

All in all, I'd say that Rayse having/holding/being a Dawnshard makes more sense than him not, but we know so little about Odium's battles with other Shards that the questions posed could be answered in any number of ways. I'm interested to hear some thoughts if you have them, or if anyone has any of that pesky evidence it's so hard to come by (for or against of course) I'd love to hear about it! 

[Honorless]

I had the same thought while I was reading!

[Could Be Fire]

 

 

 

On 11/7/2020 at 8:32 PM, vetterlinj said:

The idea that Autonomy's assistance was what allowed Odium to win a 2 v 1 contest has never seemed satisfying to me, as even a 2 v 2 does not seem like a certain thing...

Could it just be Odium's intent is directed in a way that makes killing Shard's easier? Devotion/Dominion might not have the 'attack' power something like Hatred can summon. Rayse may have also been on the only shard's to figure out the 'trick' of attack. We see him getting more successful overtime. Ambition he only is able to seriously wound, Devotion/Dominion he destroys but not in a neat shattering but partially by shoving their powering in the cognitive realm. Cultivation probably has the same issues as Preservation for attacking and Honor may need an honorable reason to kill someone that Odium is smart enough to provide. 

MISTBORN spoilers

 

 

 

Quote

Like how Ruin can tear apart Leras pretty easy because he's Ruin but Preservation can only trap Ruin not shatter or destroy him because it's against his intent.

 

On 11/7/2020 at 8:32 PM, vetterlinj said:

Brandon also says that Dawnshards change your spirit 

In favor, it could be Hoid's particularly dawnshard made him incapable of harm (I know some people have theorized a care/nuture). Savantism is a very specefic tip of investiture bleed (a mistborn could be a savant in a particular metal overused, not a general mistborn savant) so different Dawnshards could have different lasting effects. If Odium was careful he could have picked one that support's his intent.

 

On 11/7/2020 at 8:32 PM, vetterlinj said:

then there are 2 (or 3 if Dalinar is/holds a Dawnshard) of the 4 in the Rosharan system, which seems like a lot

It seems Ashlynite's had at least two at one point. Honor always calls them "dawnshards" as a plural that they had/used so it's def possible for two to be on one planet. It is strange that whoever was guarding CHANGE would bring it back to the world where Odium is trapped and Dawnshards were used as weapons. Seems like hiding it literally anywhere else in the cosmere would be better.