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Oh, my heart, it aches for Hoid!


Knight of Iron

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4 minutes ago, The Traveller said:

Some interesting changes are in store for Rysn then. She is essentially immortal and vegetarian. 

Perhaps so, but I'm leaning more towards the immortality and inability to cause harm probably had something to do with the type of Dawnshard Hoid had. I think Rysn has a different one, and that any effects will be different.

Immortality and inability to cause harm to living things reminds me a lot of Preservation, and what Rysn has seems to be the opposite of that. So instead of immortality, short life? Either way, she didn't know what she was signing up for.

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1 hour ago, Knight of Iron said:

Perhaps so, but I'm leaning more towards the immortality and inability to cause harm probably had something to do with the type of Dawnshard Hoid had. I think Rysn has a different one, and that any effects will be different.

Immortality and inability to cause harm to living things reminds me a lot of Preservation, and what Rysn has seems to be the opposite of that. So instead of immortality, short life? Either way, she didn't know what she was signing up for.

Maybe she won’t be able to stop changing, or settle down. Adventurous spirit kind of a thing

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Saying Hoid was a Dawnshard doesn't mean he was THIS Dawnshard, right?

I have been pondering whether getting what he needs (his conversations with Dalinar earlier in Stormlight) included trying to find a Dawnshard or not, and also how he'll take the news once he finds out (and I have no doubt he eventually will) that Rysn is one now.

Also, considering things in a new light, perhaps his time as a Dawnshard is the primary reason he didn't accept a Shard once the deed was done.

And more humorously, perhaps the reason he really really wants this Dawnshard is to be able to eat bacon once more...

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On 11/7/2020 at 1:50 AM, nbozb said:

Yes, it really must suck for Hoid. I feel so bad for him. It’s not as though vegetarians exist or anything....

Good thing he isn’t allergic to vegetables. Which is an actual thing, btw. It’s a very rare digestive disorder.

Also, good thing he isn’t part of a religion that considers eating meat a commandment. Because those exist too.

Also a good thing he doesn’t suffer from protein deficiencies, especially since the Cosmere doesn’t seem to have supplements. Man must eat lots of eggs, yogurts, beans and seaweed.
 

And no pastries in places that don’t have butter, so use animal fats instead. Ouch. You realize how annoying this must be on Roshar? If they don’t have a butter alternative, they’re probably using animal fats to cook. That’s most of the dishes eliminated...

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4 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

And no pastries in places that don’t have butter, so use animal fats instead. Ouch. You realize how annoying this must be on Roshar? If they don’t have a butter alternative, they’re probably using animal fats to cook. That’s most of the dishes eliminated...

Maybe he can eat it if it's just an additive? Like, a steak looks like meat, maybe it sets off the Veggie Alarm, but you can't see "cooked with lard".

(Or maybe he can eat if he doesn't *know* it's cooked in animal fat. "Hey Hoid, how's that vegetable stir-fry?... Thanks for the offer, Hoid, but I keep kosher... I know, but I'm pretty sure it was fried in lard... Hoid? Hoid?!? Someone help me, there's a man projectile-vomiting here!")

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1 hour ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Maybe he can eat it if it's just an additive? Like, a steak looks like meat, maybe it sets off the Veggie Alarm, but you can't see "cooked with lard".

(Or maybe he can eat if he doesn't *know* it's cooked in animal fat. "Hey Hoid, how's that vegetable stir-fry?... Thanks for the offer, Hoid, but I keep kosher... I know, but I'm pretty sure it was fried in lard... Hoid? Hoid?!? Someone help me, there's a man projectile-vomiting here!")

If you keep kosher there’s a lot of reasons beyond lard that you can’t eat it... Oh, Shards! I hope Hoid doesn’t have to deal with THAT level of restriction.
 

“No, see, if it’s cooked in a meat pot it gets the FLAVOR of meat, so it’s meat. And if it’s not-kosher or treif meat then it gets the flavor of that, so it’s the same as eating it.”

”So...”

”So that pot means it’s meat and not-kosher.”

”..... But there’s no meat in it!”

”But there was yesterday!”

Gotta love Judaism. We have the craziest rules.

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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26 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

If you keep kosher there’s a lot of reasons beyond lard that you can’t eat it... Oh, Shards! I hope Hoid doesn’t have to deal with THAT level of restriction.
 

“No, see, if it’s cooked in a meat pot it gets the FLAVOR of meat, so it’s meat. And if it’s not-kosher or treif meat then it gets the flavor of that, so it’s the same as eating it.”

”So...”

”So that pot means it’s meat and not-kosher.”

”..... But there’s no meat in it!”

”But there was yesterday!”

Gotta love Judaism. We have the craziest rules.

I was going to correct you for overstating it, but then I realized that I, as a vegetarian who keeps Kosher, have basically had that exact conversation.

Maybe he knows so much about the interactions of aluminum and investiture because he always needs to ask restaurants to put foil under everything? :P

As an aside, it is always nice to see another Jewish Sharder. The 613 is a nice touch.

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7 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

If you keep kosher there’s a lot of reasons beyond lard that you can’t eat it... Oh, Shards! I hope Hoid doesn’t have to deal with THAT level of restriction.
 

“No, see, if it’s cooked in a meat pot it gets the FLAVOR of meat, so it’s meat. And if it’s not-kosher or treif meat then it gets the flavor of that, so it’s the same as eating it.”

”So...”

”So that pot means it’s meat and not-kosher.”

”..... But there’s no meat in it!”

”But there was yesterday!”

Gotta love Judaism. We have the craziest rules.

IKR? I don't think Hoid's travels would be quite as extensive if he had to subsist on canned tuna and PBJ throughout most of his Cosmere journeys. *is not at all bitter about that trip to Greece*

On the other hand, if he merely kept kosher he'd at least have a reasonable bacon substitute.

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3 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

IKR? I don't think Hoid's travels would be quite as extensive if he had to subsist on canned tuna and PBJ throughout most of his Cosmere journeys. *is not at all bitter about that trip to Greece*

On the other hand, if he merely kept kosher he'd at least have a reasonable bacon substitute.

I bet this is why he is so anxious for Scadrial to develop instant noodles.

Also, to get the thread somewhat back on track, there is evidence that plant-based protein is hard to come by on Roshar (or at least parts of it) in Dawnshard, as the Hexi nomads value wormy grain highly (and consider grubs plants) because they have no other way to get protein.

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Reminds me of a hypothetical discussion years ago with friends regarding vat-grown muscle tissue, sourced from cells from a pig: would it be considered Kosher or halal? The food would no longer be from an unclean animal, because it's just muscle tissue growing in a nutrient bath. It doesn't chew the cud, but it also no longer has split hooves, because it's just muscle tissue growing in a nutrient bath. Etc., etc. Interesting to ponder. 

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11 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

And no pastries in places that don’t have butter, so use animal fats instead. Ouch. You realize how annoying this must be on Roshar? If they don’t have a butter alternative, they’re probably using animal fats to cook. That’s most of the dishes eliminated...

 

Quote

 

Neuralnet

The characters eat all of these crustaceans... do they have some sort of butter to dip into—even without cows, although maybe they have cows in Shinovar? (I can't be the only one who envisions himself on Roshar eating dinner every time I eat crab or lobster)

Brandon Sanderson

Their milk products are much lesser used, but they do get cream and whatnot from sow's milk. The pigs on Roshar produce more milk from years of natural genetic modification—breeding and whatnot—in the same way that humans have bred cows over the centuries. So they do have milk products. Some of their curries will have different types of cream. Whether they're dipping the crustaceans depends on the culture. For instance, Horneaters have teeth that break claws. Their back molars are different from standard human molars. To a lesser extent, the Herdazians have the same thing going for them. For those two cultures, they'll chew the shells and eat them. For the Alethi, they're probably dipping the meat in a curry, or just preparing the curry with the crustacean meat in it. There are other cultures where they’ll sauté it or have a sow's milk dipping sauce or things like that.

Tor.com The Way of Kings Re-Read Interview (June 10, 2014)

 

Roshar does have pig milk, so they might use that to make butter.
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13 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Good thing he isn’t allergic to vegetables. Which is an actual thing, btw. It’s a very rare digestive disorder.

Also, good thing he isn’t part of a religion that considers eating meat a commandment. Because those exist too.

Also a good thing he doesn’t suffer from protein deficiencies, especially since the Cosmere doesn’t seem to have supplements. Man must eat lots of eggs, yogurts, beans and seaweed.

This is a good thing! Because obviously the situation would be very different if this happened. However, he doesn’t have a very rare digestive disorder, or has to eat meat for religious purposes, or has protein deficiencies, so the situation isn’t changed by any of these things.

 

Quote

And no pastries in places that don’t have butter, so use animal fats instead. Ouch. You realize how annoying this must be on Roshar? If they don’t have a butter alternative, they’re probably using animal fats to cook. That’s most of the dishes eliminated...

This I can concede to... good point!

Edited by nbozb
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13 hours ago, Bliev said:

I wonder if it has anything to do with using the dawnshard. Because the annotations also say that Rysn cannot use it, which may limit the long term effects on her spirit web?

That containing a Dawnshard has the same effect as having a Dawnshard removed is a daring assumption.

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On 11/6/2020 at 11:59 PM, LightReader said:

It’s not being a vegetarian that’s the issue, there’s nothing wrong with being a vegetarian, it’s that he isn’t really doing it by choice.  He’s a vegetarian because he’s incapable of doing otherwise; even though he loves the taste of bacon, he’s incapable of actually eating it. It’s more similar to someone who loves the taste of peanut butter being allergic to peanuts. Being incapable of eating your favorite food would really suck. 

As someone who was diagnosed with gluten-free needs this year, let me just affirm: I really miss pizza. And pasta. And bread. Wow, bread--the delicate crunch of a buttered garlicky baguette... The rippling folds of a perfect cinnamon roll. Cold cereals of most varieties. Kitkats and Twix. Whoppers. Chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream. Heck, cookies. Pastries. Cakes.

You get it, the list goes on and on.

Poor Hoid indeed.

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Yeah, maybe I just have less sympathy for him because in general, I don’t really care about food taste. As long as it’s not horrible, I’ll eat it. I guess that if he really does care, it would be awful to not be able to eat it... ok, I’ll jump on the bandwagon. Sucks to be Hoid in this case 

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