Mid-Range Game 46: A Broken Imperium

[danex]

3 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Oh my gosh

I'm a massive freaking idiot

Turtle was the one who asked me to talk to Gears about the roleblocking thing, not Ghanderflaffle. Should I explain my whole pfp color association thing, and how easily I get Sharders confsued if their pfp's share similar shades?

Okay, well this certainly explains a lot, and helps with my Turtle case. I think this actually makes the second half of my massive post somewhat irrelevant, so I’ll post what I have so far. 
 

Edit: can someone post so that I don’t double post? This this is big. Well, less big now, but still probably deserves its own post. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Danex

[Channelknight Fadran]

Now I have no idea who I'm voting for or why, so...

Turtle

[danex]

Okay, I finally have the last piece of the puzzle. I have been PMing a lot of people, and have found that NUMEROUS contradictions have arose. I will now list them all. Please read this whole post, as it will basically cover everything. 

1. Turtle
Okay, my PMs with turtle have been very eventful. We had some idle chatter yesterday, didn’t seem like much, but in hindsight, could have definitely been an attempt to pocket me. Then comes the PM chain. This revealed so much. So, turtle PMs me, saying that she had received multiple PMs saying that Gears was the one who was Roleblocked, and to try and throw Gears off, Turtle told me that she had PMd Gears that Quinn was the one who had been Roleblocked. Then, there was some PM confusion, and I think this was Turtle’s downfall. In our main PM, the one with the idle chatter and the one in which I sent them chainmail, Turtle told me. “Oh no, someone just told me that Quinn was the one who was Roleblocked.” She said this in that tone because I had just been talking about how I was concerned and surprised that we hadn’t seen any Elim tampering. So it seems like she was bringing that up as a sign of Elim tampering. But I think Turtle messed up. Because we had an accidental other chat, one with only one message, where Turtle told me that they had PMd Gears with that fake Quinn chainmail.
So this is Discrepancy #1. Why would Turtle be surprised that her own chainmail was spreading, that’s what chainmail does. It spreads. And why would she use it as evidence of Elim tampering, she was the one that started it.
Turtle tried to cover up her mistake by saying that she wasn’t surprised at the chainmail, she was surprised that Gears had apparently spread it. She claimed that she thought Gears wouldn’t do that. I don’t know why Gears wouldn’t, but that’s irrelevant, and I’ll tell you why. 

2. Gears
So these aren’t going to be discrepancies in and of themselves, but my PMs with Gears are a big source of evidence for other contradictions. I asked Gears if Turtle had told them that Quinn was the Roleblockee, and he did confirm that, no discrepancy there. But he said that he hadn’t forwarded that chainmail to anyone else, so how could it have gotten back to Turtle? This sent me on a chain, trying to trace down anyone that could have sent it to Turtle, I was talking to Fadran, Ghander, everybody denied forwarding that to Turtle, or to anyone else. 
So that’s Discrepancy #2. Why did Turtle say that someone had PMd her the Quinn chainmail, when I had ruled out everyone who could have? I asked Turtle who sent it to them, and they said that they didn’t want to answer.

3. Fadran
Fadran is honestly a mess. I have no idea what is up with them, but they are lying about everything, and being incredibly dodgy at the same time. Although, they might not be Elim, just very very very new. But Elim is definitely a possibility. 
...okay, Nevermind, according to new information from Fadran, they had Ghander confused with Turtle, which removes many if not all of the Fadran-Ghander contradictions that were going to fill up the rest of this post. I think I’m probably forgetting something, but I’m posting it. Be sure to check this again in case I edit in more info. 

[Mat]

5 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Oh, this is going to be a fun quarter cycle.

Be nice to me 

 

[Channelknight Fadran]

4 minutes ago, Danex said:

3. Fadran
Fadran is honestly a mess. I have no idea what is up with them, but they are lying about everything, and being incredibly dodgy at the same time. Although, they might not be Elim, just very very very new. But Elim is definitely a possibility. 

You have no idea how hard you had my laughing here.

4 minutes ago, Danex said:

...okay, Nevermind, according to new information from Fadran, they had Ghander confused with Turtle, which removes many if not all of the Fadran-Ghander contradictions that were going to fill up the rest of this post. I think I’m probably forgetting something, but I’m posting it. Be sure to check this again in case I edit in more info. 

And then a good 'ol "no hard feelings" retcon

[danex]

4 minutes ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

You have no idea how hard you had my laughing here.

And then a good 'ol "no hard feelings" retcon

Yep, pretty much.  =P  

I had like, 5 more paragraphs I was gonna write, but it you confusing Ghander with Turtle clears it up pretty dang well. 
It does make it seem like Turtle was absolutely trying to pocket you, furthering my suspicion of her. 

[Channelknight Fadran]

Just now, Danex said:

Yep, pretty much.  =P  

I had like, 5 more paragraphs I was gonna write, but it you confusing Ghander with Turtle clears it up pretty dang well. 
It does make it seem like Turtle was absolutely trying to pocket you, furthering my suspicion of her. 

Yep! Pretty sure she was. No doubts there.

[Ghanderflaffle]

Well in that case I am switching my vote to Turtle again. Fadran I still don’t trust you as much anymore, but the mistake makes sense. Sorry for revealing our entire PM's, but at that point I was positive you were an elim and that was all the evidence I had on you.

[Quintessential]

Well I'm glad this cleared up overnight... I saw Ghander post right before I went to bed and was ready to switch to voting Fadran because, like Danex, I've been PMing with the people involved and with Ghander posting there were three different people confirming that Fadran was lying. But Fadran confusing turtle and Ghander actually does clear that up lol. I would have hated to vote out a fellow new player on C2. Anyway, keeping my vote on turtle.

Also, I won't be on for the last half-hour before rollover and the first half-hour after 'cause I have an online class oof. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Quinn0928

[Ghanderflaffle]

3 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

Well I'm glad this cleared up overnight... I saw Ghander post right before I went to bed and was ready to switch to voting Fadran because, like Danex, I've been PMing with the people involved and with Ghander posting there were three different people confirming that Fadran was lying. But Fadran confusing turtle and Ghander actually does clear that up lol. I would have hated to vote out a fellow new player on C2. Anyway, keeping my vote on turtle.

Also, I won't be on for the last half-hour before rollover and the first half-hour after 'cause I have an online class oof. 

I won’t be on much to at all for the rest of the cycle. RoW RoW RoW!

[ShrubSeph]

9 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Turtle was the one who asked me to talk to Gears about the roleblocking thing, not Ghanderflaffle.

I guess this clears it up? Although that does seem a little like a pocket. Ghanderflaffle

[|TJ|]

So, what's the theory now? Genuine roleblocker started the chain and Turtle tried to muddle it up or an elim started the chain to pin Gears? If it's the former that would be both Gears and Turtle are elims. If it's the latter, there's an elim at the head of the chain. I think Books mentioned a defence for Gears as they said an elim would try to sow chaos and blame other villagers, but I'm of the opinion that an elim would be cautious in doing so as such fake roleblock claims can always be traced back to them, so they'd not want to risk another elim's life while trying to save elim!Gears.

[Quintessential]

8 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

So, what's the theory now? Genuine roleblocker started the chain and Turtle tried to muddle it up or an elim started the chain to pin Gears? If it's the former that would be both Gears and Turtle are elims. If it's the latter, there's an elim at the head of the chain. I think Books mentioned a defence for Gears as they said an elim would try to sow chaos and blame other villagers, but I'm of the opinion that an elim would be cautious in doing so as such fake roleblock claims can always be traced back to them, so they'd not want to risk another elim's life while trying to save elim!Gears.

TJ, the reason we aren't thinking that both turtle and Gears are elims is that if they were, turtle wouldn't have sent the decoy message to Gears at all--she would have spread it around to a bunch of confirmed villagers, maybe had one other elim (who was below suspicion, so not Gears) start it among other villagers or convinced a pocketed villager to start it. The fact that almost *no one* has seen the message indicates that it wasn't sent by an elim to protect another elim.

Now, if turtle is village, then her story that she didn't trust Gears matches up whether Gears is actually village or not--I've read him both ways this game so far, so I can empathize. 

The other possibility is that turtle is an elim and wanted to pin Gears for spreading the rumors by passing them (from herself and from turtle) to village Gears in the hopes that *he* would pass them on. If we had tried to trace the second chain, all the messages would have gotten back to Gears and turtle and Fadran could have claimed to have nothing to do with it. We would have been more likely to believe them than Gears, since he would already have seemed suspicious. The plan *didn't* work because village!Gears didn't pass on the message. 

The third possibility is the one that seems most likely to me right now, given the facts we have. Which is why I'm voting turtle rather than Gears.

Edit: And yes, for PM reasons I happen to know that the Gears chain was started by the genuine RBer, not an elim--I personally more or less ruled the possibility that that one was started by elims a long time ago. The idea that Gears is village makes sense with the fact that the Gears chain got spread so widely.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Quinn0928

[Channelknight Fadran]

Once again, everyone, I am very sorry.

Spoiler

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Channelknight Fadran

[|TJ|]

30 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

Edit: And yes, for PM reasons I happen to know that the Gears chain was started by the genuine RBer, not an elim--I personally more or less ruled the possibility that that one was started by elims a long time ago. The idea that Gears is village makes sense with the fact that the Gears chain got spread so widely.

So a village role-blocker blocked village Gears? That would mean that the attack on Reading was WGG then?

[Quintessential]

Just now, TJ Shade said:

So a village role-blocker blocked village Gears? That would mean that the attack on Reading was WGG then?

I'm not sure. WGG seemed rather far-fetched to me even when I was the one who first suggested it, and I'm inclined to trust Reading. But if turtle turns up elim, then it would make sense to look a lot more closely at Reading (while still keeping in mind the possibility that Reading is village-aligned TLR, and that killing him in that case would be very bad for us).

[Shard of Reading]

10 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Oh, this is going to be a fun quarter cycle.

Yup. This has been the most active game that I've ever played in for certain, and might be the most active game in the history of SE. (Although I have no way of knowing)

Well, Fadran is cleared by being new player. Turtle is defiantly an elim and I still don't know how I'm not dead.

[Turtle]

10 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said:

Oh my gosh

I'm a massive freaking idiot

Turtle was the one who asked me to talk to Gears about the roleblocking thing, not Ghanderflaffle. Should I explain my whole pfp color association thing, and how easily I get Sharders confsued if their pfp's share similar shades?

OHHHHHH (Thats why I PMd you that I was confused.) Ok, that makes a lot more sense. But.... still not much sense. Anyways, Ghander, and uhh... I should vote, shouldn't I? Ok, so Somebody is still a little suspicious to me, and so is Books, but that's mostly just for their bandwagon-y votes. I would vote Gears in self-pres, but I really don't think they're elim. Umm... Quinn0928, Though that's mostly a gut read and I don't have much more evidence to go off of. 

Just now, Shard of Reading said:

Well, Fadran is cleared by being new player.

Not... quite. He's cleared to me for other reasons. Being a new player doesn't really clear people, though if Fadran was elim (Like someone said) he would probably be leveraging his new player-ness more. 

 

My personal theory is that someone did role block Gears, but Gears is not an elim and didn't submit the kill. 

 

[Shard of Reading]

3 minutes ago, eltruT said:

Not... quite. He's cleared to me for other reasons. Being a new player doesn't really clear people, though if Fadran was elim (Like someone said) he would probably be leveraging his new player-ness more. 

You would defiantly know that being new doesn't clear players. But I think that the majority of the thinks that made Fadran seem elim are now cleared because he made a mistake.

[Quintessential]

6 minutes ago, eltruT said:

OHHHHHH (Thats why I PMd you that I was confused.) Ok, that makes a lot more sense. But.... still not much sense. Anyways, Ghander, and uhh... I should vote, shouldn't I? Ok, so Somebody is still a little suspicious to me, and so is Books, but that's mostly just for their bandwagon-y votes. I would vote Gears in self-pres, but I really don't think they're elim. Umm... Quinn0928, Though that's mostly a gut read and I don't have much more evidence to go off of. 

My personal theory is that someone did role block Gears, but Gears is not an elim and didn't submit the kill. 

 

*sigh* well if it's a gut-read there's no argument I can make against it... And I guess I can't blame you since I'm now actively advocating for lynching you. 

Also yes, I agree with your theory about Gears.

[+Whysper]

10 hours ago, Danex said:

So this is Discrepancy #1. Why would Turtle be surprised that her own chainmail was spreading, that’s what chainmail does. It spreads. And why would she use it as evidence of Elim tampering, she was the one that started it.
Turtle tried to cover up her mistake by saying that she wasn’t surprised at the chainmail, she was surprised that Gears had apparently spread it. She claimed that she thought Gears wouldn’t do that. I don’t know why Gears wouldn’t, but that’s irrelevant, and I’ll tell you why. 

10 hours ago, Danex said:

So that’s Discrepancy #2. Why did Turtle say that someone had PMd her the Quinn chainmail, when I had ruled out everyone who could have? I asked Turtle who sent it to them, and they said that they didn’t want to answer.

Thanks for taking the time to put together that summary of what happened. I was debating whether to switch my vote from Gears to Turtle, but now I feel confident enough to do so.

eltruT

 

 

[Turtle]

10 hours ago, Danex said:

And why would she use it as evidence of Elim tampering, she was the one that started it.

I didn't see this post earlier, I'm saying that if I'm not elim (Something I know) and I was the only one to spread a different chain, the fact that the Gears chain message kept spreading without being changed seems weird to me, which is mostly why I don't think Gears is elim. 

I won't be here until rollover because RoW. 

[ShrubSeph]

11 minutes ago, Shard of Reading said:

You would defiantly know that being new doesn't clear players. 

(also you misspelled definitely)  

[Shard of Reading]

Just now, Kings_way said:

(also you misspelled definitely)  

Se mhy sihg. Eye, dohnt car aboot gwama/speewing

[Quintessential]

1 minute ago, Shard of Reading said:

Se mhy sihg. Eye, dohnt car aboot gwama/speewing

*grits teeth* Please. Don't. Do. That.