Truthless of Shinovar

Official Dawnshard Reaction Thread

55 posts in this topic

Just now, Ashbringer said:

It sounds like there’s probably more Sleepless elsewhere in the cosmere, although they don’t impersonate humans. So Philico could just be ahead of the curve on that :P

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And Philico’s existence is much more likely than Faleast’s literal time travel... :ph34r:

Although I technically have a reason for that.

 

Not to mention his appearance in the Rithmatist game

But yeah, I kind of read that as there only being 24 Sleepless anywhere, so that's good to get that corrected. As far as number of hordelings goes... I thought there was a lot, but there's really a lot.

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2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Not to mention his appearance in the Rithmatist game

Technically the same reason works for that too

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

But yeah, I kind of read that as there only being 24 Sleepless anywhere, so that's good to get that corrected. As far as number of hordelings goes... I thought there was a lot, but there's really a lot.

They can also get... really, really big.

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6 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

They can also get... really, really big.

Hehehhehhehehhehehehehehehehhehhehehehehehheheheheheheehehehheehhehehehehhehehehe

Edited by Matrim's Dice
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conflicted.

the nature of the Dawnshards is good. the effects it has on Rysn are less amazing than they should be. considering what they are. or maybe the Dawnshard can only carry you to the 5th hightening. which should still be noticable by others.

Rysn becoming one is something I'd rather not have. well.

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In a new WoB. Brandon states that the Sleepless thought that even if someone managed to get into the cavern that held the Dawnshard. They thought it would be impossible for anyone to actually Bond it “for a variety of reasons”

Spoiler
fullyoperational
 

Why didnt the sleepless have a guard watching the dawnshard? 

Hope that doesn't sound rude! I just want to know to resolve the question in my head. I really enjoyed the novella (and anything you write) by the way!

 
 

They did--but only a couple of Hordelings to give warning. They never thought, in a million years, the intruders would absorb the Dawnshard. It wasn't seen as possible for a variety of reasons that, some day, might be clear.

Up until the moment realizing what had happened, they assumed they were in complete control, as the humans were locked into a place with no other exit and there were swarms blocking the way back out through the water.

i wonder why?

is Rysn just special?

or is the Dawnshard more functional than previously thought?(Honor implied they were lost, which i took to mean as non functional. Or not fully functional)

Edited by Eternal Khol
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On 11/10/2020 at 10:39 PM, Matrim's Dice said:

Hehehhehhehehhehehehehehehehhehhehehehehehheheheheheheehehehheehhehehehehhehehehe

I feel like I'm missing something about this side talk here...

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Rysn was always one of my favorite interlude characters, and Aimia (western Roshar in general like Iri and Shinovar) are the places I want to know the most on Roshar, so when heard about an expedition to Aimia lead by Rysn was announced I don't need to say there I wasn't anything but hyped 

 

As usual, Sanderson promised and delivered an awesome short story 

It doesn't sound like a minor unimportant secondary plot, rather a very significant one that was just too much a side story to get into the main book 

Sanderson is really sensitive to human diversity even in physical condition, his portrait of disabled people remains unpaired as far as fantasy literature goes. Glad he didn't give Rysn her leg movements back in a cheap way, she's much more interesting as a person destined to greatest besides her disability, rather than a person who need to overcome a disability in order to be important 

Thr cast is just perfect. Sleepless remains fantastic, same goes to Larkins and Cord really grewn on me. Lopen stands as one of my favorite bridge four members, and Rua is just adorable and matches his nature perfectly. 

The only bad thing I can think about it's how short it was and fast I read it. It could be a bit lengthier, I wouldn't bother 

 

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The Lopen's (I'm never calling him just Lopen again) first and last chapters in this novella were really great *Rock does a chef's kiss*

Loved how Rysn handled the omens

How the novella handled disability was really well done. Rysn's thoughts were really on point, other characters were handled really well here. It really took me off-guard how mature the two focus characters + one cousin were in this book

The Lopen's chapter header

5fae8adad087c_StormlightchapterLopen.png.375b285cd3c3d25b5f647b85631af12f.png

perfection

Rysn's header is on the Dawnshard cover (a Larkin)

The glimpses of central Roshar and the western Makabaki region. The Stormlight books have had worldbuilding as a really strong point for them from the beginning.

Huio's accidental discovery with aluminium to block a paired fabrial's movement along a certain direction is what eventually led to the Fourth Bridge! Huio's a really experimenter type, who's intelligence remains unknown because of language barrier. I could say a lot but Brandon's annotations on Reddit for the inspiration behind his character does it perfectly already! 

Brandon's first trans character gets a mention, it's the Reshi King, he's a Dustbringer (yeah you read that right, Dustbringer) possibly the only one not aligned with the Diagram. Also the Lopen in that entire chapter, absolutely beautiful. The Tai-Na turned out to be far more sentient than we thought.

Hmm... Stormlight from different gems taste different, you say, the Lopen? That's interesting.... 

Fridge moment as Rysn thinks about the support network she's developed with mostly other disabled women. Vorin culture's assigned role to men, i.e. war,  means there are a lot more disabled men and they can't read, most of them are Darkeyed too. I hope there's something there in place for them.

Hmph, while Rushu is correct in that the Lopen is not a regular guy but a Knight Radiant, what he was before he became Radiant should also be considered: a slave, a Bridgeman, and a Herdazian living in Alethkar. His life has been much less comfortable than hers. It's really something how often Kaladin and the other Bridgemen's horrible past is glossed over by other characters to point out that they are now in a very high station in society.

I was kinda disappointed by Aimia itself but then again, mystery island isn't Brandon's genre and all of the mystery of Aimia was a façade, so I suppose this fits better. But it was hyped up for so long as this mysterious place! It was kinda just another place, which was the point. I just had different expectations... And am used to more obtuse prose. I actually really liked the idea of the Greatshells coming to Akinah as the final migration point of their life cycle, shame it was a ruse though.

The moment the Luckspren went underwater, I knew. The caverns were easy enough to predict. I was kind of expecting them. When you're a Sharder, you remember the small details like all the stuff recorded in the Urithiru gem archives. How intelligent are these Luckspren? On the Cognitive Realm they're called Mandras and pull boats for the spren, on the Physical they're seen with Skyeels and Greatshells like Chasmfiends and Tai-Na, making them lighter but the Aimian variety is a bit special apparently and this is why Chiri-Chiri needed to come to Aimia.

Something I didn't get: was it the whole city of Akinah or just the platform that was fake? If it was the whole city then they've got a Netherlands situation there.
I wonder where the Aimian fabrial is. It sounds just as impressive as Urithiru. Something to make a windswept barren area habitable. Something similar might've been in use in the Natanatan (present-day Frostlands)

There are 4 Dawnshards. They were used by the original Vessels of the 16 Shards of Adonalsium to kill him by splitting him into pieces. 4 Commands each to Shatter him into 4X4 Intents.

Either 1) Honor & Cultivation kept one Dawnshard or 2) it was hidden in Ashyn or Roshar

Preservation was hinted to have one buried in Scadrial. He said he buried a weapon. Most people think that was just a figure of speech but others, like me, thinks he was referring to something else.

It's entirely possible that a Dawnshard is how Odium Splinters Shards. He certainly hasn't expended as much effort on Aimia as he should've if a Dawnshard could potentially Splinter him and he was aware of it being hidden there. We don't know what Odium knows.

Oh, I really look forward to Hoid and Rysn meeting! What Dawnshard did Hoid bear, I wonder? Rysn's was Change (so the Dawnshard that was used to create Cultivation & Ruin?). Given that Hoid's immortality and inability to hurt others comes from his (former) Dawnshard... Protection? 

Also, wow, we got a lot of info on the Sleepless!

I realized that Nikli was the omen planter (and one of the Sleepless) at the same time as Rysn did. I did not expect such a detailed Sleepless PoV though! 

So all Larkin are not/cannot become Lanceryn and the Sleepless have interbred some of their Hordelings with them, which is really weird to think about. The Sleepless only imitate humans on Roshar, I'm always gonna be on hordeling lookout whenever an insect appears in the Cosmere books in the future.

The Horneaters are well enough aware of what they're guarding on the peaks, though they're not Cosmere-aware, there's a lot of knowledge that has been passed down. A contract was made between them and the spren to guard the Perpendicularity it seems.

I do not think that Chiri-Chiri the Larkin and apparently true born Lanceryn, is the same species of Dragon as Yolish Dragons like Frost. But it seems Chiri-Chiri's is also an intelligent specie though how much remains to be seen, at least in this novella

Huio and the Lopen swear their third Ideal! At first I was cheering because Huio swore his trying to save the Lopen and then I remembered what the third Ideal was... yikes. Also Rua and the Lopen are so perfect for each other! 

I didn't like the final negotiations between Rysn and the Sleepless. The enemy, the people who are aware of and want to use Dawnshards, when they said extra misdirection against them, I was expecting a bit more.

 

I also went through the Dawnshard megathread on Reddit and I absolutely suggest that you go check it out if you haven't already. Brandon talks a bit about the Sleepless and answers a few questions about Dawnshards with RAFOs, as well as other stuff! 

Brandon said on Reddit that Radiant Soulcasting is more dangerous than fabrial Soulcasting. Remember Jasnah's warnings to Shallan in WoK. She said its different from mechanical Soulcasting so your mind gets transported into Shadesmar, which doesn't happen to the same degree with Soulcaster devices. It leaves the Radiant vulnerable, they might get stranded in shadesmar without stormlight or certain kinds of spren might attack them in the Cognitive. It also leaves the body behind in the Physical. Soulcaster devices also seem more surefire in their ability. Like Shallan couldn't convince the stick. When Kaza Soulcast something, she didn't really interact that much with the thing's Cognitive aspect. Mechanical Soulcasters lack flexibility though, only one kind of Soulcasting each mostly, and Radiant Soulcasters have protection from Savanthood. 

It seems that the definition of a "Surge" is just a worn out path that Investiture often likes to take. An overarching type of magic, basically. So Surgebinding on Ashyn meaning something different is as good as confirmed. Then again the whole idea was that they used the Surges via the Dawnshards and those turned out to be something very unexpected.

Also, very interesting WoB on the Aethers but I see there's already been a lot of discussion on it on the forums and Discord.

Edited by Honorless
edited for clarity
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On 11/6/2020 at 7:34 PM, Cheat Commando said:

THE DAWNSHARDS WERE THE WEAPONS THAT KILLED ADONALSIUM!! AAAHHHH!!!

If the Shards represent power, and the Dawnshards represent intent... I wonder if the the combination of mutually exclusive Commands could have been that which broke Adonalsium. Rather like the problems that Harmony now faces. A logic bomb, that either broke its processes... or stalled them long enough for the Sixteen to step in, and do the Breaking.

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4 hours ago, Honorless said:

A contract was made between them and the spren to guard the Perpendicularity it seems.

Oh.... I was under the impression that she was talking about the Siah’s(Horneaters seem to refer to a lot of beings a “gods”). But it makes more sense for it to be spren, literally bound to their word

 

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

Something I didn't get: was it the whole city of Akinah or just the platform that was fake? If it was the whole city then they've got a Netherlands situation there.

It was the entire “city”

all the buildings, the “oathgate control platform” and gemstones were all fake.

the entirety of real Akinah is 6 feet under

Edited by Eternal Khol
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I loved it!

Potentially controversial/unpopular opinion: The Dawnshard was the least interesting part of Dawnshard. The character moments were what made the book for me.

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34 minutes ago, Jaywalk said:

I loved it!

Potentially controversial/unpopular opinion: The Dawnshard was the least interesting part of Dawnshard. The character moments were what made the book for me.

I agree, but not because I find Dawnshards uninteresting, it's just like it's a plot the isn't likely to be well developed until back 5, so I can't get hyped for anything that will take over 10 years to be uncovered 

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On 13.11.2020 at 3:39 PM, Honorless said:

It seems that the definition of a "Surge" is just a worn out path that Investiture often likes to take. An overarching type of magic, basically. So Surgebinding on Ashyn meaning something different is as good as confirmed. Then again the whole idea was that they used the Surges via the Dawnshards and those turned out to be something very unexpected.

I'm not that sure about Ashyn. We have WoBs confirming that the magic there used the same principles as Rosharan Surgebinding  and was 10-centric; that there were (and still are) spren on Ashyn and Oathgates were possible there. Plus, (RoW spoilers)

Spoiler

Bondsmiths brought people from Ashyn to Roshar

Given the similarity between the powers of the Fused and KR Surges I would assume that the Surges are similar in the whole Rosharan System

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46 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

I'm not that sure about Ashyn. We have WoBs confirming that the magic there used the same principles as Rosharan Surgebinding  and was 10-centric; that there were (and still are) spren on Ashyn and Oathgates were possible there. Plus, (RoW spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Bondsmiths brought people from Ashyn to Roshar

Given the similarity between the powers of the Fused and KR Surges I would assume that the Surges are similar in the whole Rosharan System

The 10 thing is present across all the Rosharan system except Braize and Oathgate equivalent is how the Ashynites got to Roshar but Spren on Ashyn? I haven't seen that WoB.

Hmm... I didn't mean a whole different thing, just a different system, after all "a Bondsmith bound the Surges", whatever that means.

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Hey fellas,

Long time member but I never really post. I usually relied on the FB groups for my info but alas, I am no longer on facebook and I need to spend more time here, it seems :) So, my first question is.......how do we know Hoid is/was/has a Dawnshard? I must have missed that completely.

My overall reaction was the same as most of you. I did think the prose was more basic than standard Sanderson, but it's also been a while since I've read....silly video games. With that said, Rysn is one of my favorites so I was happy to see more of her.  I was personally expecting her to be able to walk after taking on this Dawnshard, but perhaps they don't work that way, or, she doesn't know how to use it. Or perhaps that would just undermine her character, I'm not sure. Perhaps that's too cliche for Sanderson.  Though given that she seems to be getting heightenings  I don't think it would be out of the ordinary to now have her legs back (I mean, Lopen regrew an arm just becoming a Radiant).

Overall I enjoyed it, but as always Brandon just gives me more questions than he answers. I'm glad they're finally figuring out Aluminum, that's going to change a lot about shardblades overall. I am also looking forward to Hoid seeing Rysn and seeing if he notices anything, as well.

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3 hours ago, Honorless said:

The 10 thing is present across all the Rosharan system except Braize and Oathgate equivalent is how the Ashynites got to Roshar but Spren on Ashyn? I haven't seen that WoB.

It's relatively new and apparently the disease magic uses "spren-like Investiture":

Quote

Vanahian

Brandon has said that the Ashynite Disease-Based Magic was related with the Old Magic. Did he mean it in a direct way? Like this magic from Ashyn was a branch or a variety of the Old Magic system?

Brandon Sanderson

I do have to RAFO this, for the most part. Suffice it to say that the disease magic is related to a symbiotic bond between spren-like investiture and microorganisms.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 24, 2020)

 

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I Absolutely loved this . The Lopen is already one of my favorite characters in the series . To see him grow into a full Radiant was satisfying . I had no idea his cousin Hulio is actually pretty smart cause the only thing I have heard him say before this novella was Bridge four” To find out that Rock and Cord are considered “The Sighted” was more good cannon. For Cord to get Horneater peaks a set of Plate was so exciting . And lastly we now know or have an idea what Dawnshards are . I wonder could someone like Hoid use one by himself ? How many are thier ? ( I’m guessing 16 ) have we seen any and not realized it ? Like the painting on Nalthis .... can’t wait

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5 hours ago, Paladin Brewer said:

Hey fellas,

Long time member but I never really post. I usually relied on the FB groups for my info but alas, I am no longer on facebook and I need to spend more time here, it seems :) So, my first question is.......how do we know Hoid is/was/has a Dawnshard? I must have missed that completely.

From an annotation by Brandon.

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On 07/11/2020 at 0:29 AM, KandraAllomancer said:

And the most important question not directly related to Dawnshards: if people got their Soulcasters from Aimia, and Aimia got them as gifts for the Ancient Guardians, then who created them in the first place? And how?

I'm sure they gave them to the guardians as gifts,  not the other way around. 

Edited by Danoo
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My reaction was along the line of being halfway interested through the book - I didn't care much for Rysn or even the Lopen before, I admit - but then Nikli mumbled that the dawnshards were used to shatter Adonalsium and...

Well, the OP described it better then me:

On 7.11.2020 at 0:26 AM, Truthless of Shinovar said:

AHHH

AHHHHHHH

AHHHHHHHHHH

HOID IS A DAWNSHARD
BECAUSE DAWNSHARDS WERE USED TO KILL ADONALSIUM

Though I didn't think of Hoid, but I should've.

Remembering the First Dreams interlude, I thought the Sleepless would appear, though I realized about Nikli just a moment before it was revealed.

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Okay. I basically read the whole book last night. I know, I know, I’m about a week late, but I had a good reason! Well, not really, but that’s not the point.

This book was SOOOOO GOOD!!!! The Lopen was by far my favorite part, but everything we learned, about the Dawnshard, about the Sleepless, about Adonalsium, it’s all mind blowing. So happy my cousin convinced me not to wait :D.

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Since I've read the entire cosmere collection over just this past year, I really enjoyed the little connections in Dawnshard.

1) So it seems like aluminum has the ability to block or inhibit all forms of investiture. Unless I'm forgetting something I don't think that was made clear until now. I feel like aluminum will eventually be the key to all the magical systems transitioning to futurist worlds. We already see the beginnings of that with storing Identity on Scadrial and now on Roshar using aluminum to upgrade existing technology. The possibilities there seem endless.

2) I like the little call back to Rock being proficient with a bow and arrow in Way of Kings. It was never explained, but now we know he was likely trained to shoot the Bow of Hours. Not important in the grand scheme of things but I love how Brandon Sanderson has the most minute details worked out well in advance.

3) The tones/buzzing of the Sleepless is clearly reminiscent of the parshendi rhythms. And I can't help but wonder if that even ties into the rhythmic pulses Vin hears from the Well of Ascension? A possibly cosmere connection there, or just coincidence? Like somehow in the spiritual realm there are waves of investiture or something like that, and certain invested beings can read them? I'm fairly new to the cosmere so apologies if I'm misinterpreting or forgetting something here.

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WOW! I don't know what to say. I really loved this book. Before this book I liked Rysn, but I never really cared that much about her. Now I can honestly say she is one of my favorite characters! I've always loved Lopen, and his third oath almost made me cry. The poor guy has such a pure heart and his realization that his jokes can hurt people really resonated with me. The third oath is more flexible than I thought it was, and I was not expecting it to go in that direction. 

I just want more Rysn and Dawnshards now, but I know I will have to wait years! 

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6 hours ago, ScarecrowBoat716 said:

And I can't help but wonder if that even ties into the rhythmic pulses Vin hears from the Well of Ascension?

It has been confirmed through WoB that allomantic pulses are connected to the rhythms. I don't know about the sleepless, though.

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I always liked Rysn interludes so I really enjoyed this book but the most exciting thing for my little archaeological heart was the fact that there are archaeologist on Roshar!!!

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