Karger

What we learned [Dawnshard]

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The Reishi King is a new Dustbringer, and possibly allied more closely to Dalinar than Taravangian and the other Dustbringers.

Also, in Lopen's conversation is seems like the bond with the Ashspren caused his biological sex to transition to male.

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Just now, LuckyJim said:

Also, in Lopen's conversation is seems like the bond with the Ashspren caused his biological sex to transition to male.

Great catch, I didn't pick up on that.

Seems to be in-book confirmation this

Quote

R'Shara

Would Stormlight healing, Progression, or Feruchemical gold healing count as some of the ways that a transgender person could change their body to match their identity?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Those would work. In fact, that's kind of the main way that you would make that happen. Injections of Investiture making the body match the Spiritual and Cognitive.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

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5 minutes ago, LuckyJim said:

The Reishi King is a new Dustbringer, and possibly allied more closely to Dalinar than Taravangian and the other Dustbringers.

Good Catch!

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These 4 Commands are the 4 groupings or categories the 16 Shards fit into. This seems heavily implied by how the 16 are grouped in the mural. 

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24 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Well, looks like I’m not getting any sleep tonight. After a mostly forgettable, low-stakes mild adventure/mystery story, the lore got turned up to 1000%. This seems like a good thread to dump my thoughts in.

It's 2am and my eyes are so tired but my brain is SO FULL.  Brandon you can't do this to us, this was just suppose to be a simple novella.

 

Dalinar's odder visions and whole "other light" thing in Oathbringer has bothered me, I didn't make the connection to what Rysn was experiencing though.  Maybe the 3 Bondsmiths are the other Dawnshards?

Dawnshard Commands and Awakening Commands is reaaaaaaallly interesting.  

I'm excited to see future Chiri-chiri in DRAGON MODE. I had some Game of Throne flashbacks with the giant skulls scene though.

Hoid once said something roughly like how he began life as words on a page.  I wonder now if this was a reference to a Command? Could the writing on the mural have been Yolish?

Could the Ghostbloods be after this?  The whole "yeah we're after economic trading power" didn't really sit well with me.

And also I'm shipping the Lopen/Cord and also Huio/Rushu.

Edited by Zelly
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This is... crazy. I was not expecting to get this level of deep cosmere knowledge from a novella. I suppose it isn’t a surprise, given the amount of cosmere connections we have gotten from the RoW previews - this book is shaping up to be huge for realmatic theory. 

So, the Dawnshards existed prior to the Shattering, as they appear to be instrumental in that act. As @Pagerunner said, it appears that Hoid may also be a Dawnshard, given the old WoB that part of Hoid’s immortality comes from the remnant of what destroyed Adonalsium. Does this mean that Rysn may also be immortal now? 

Very interesting that Rysn’s perception of the world post-bonding the Dawnshard appears very similar to someone who is an advanced Heightening - I wonder if this is a sort of Cosmere-wide affect of holding a lot of investiture? Or perhaps this is an affect of holding a lot of this type of investiture? It certainly seems like the Command that Rysn now holds - this would fit with the mural being split into 4 larger chunks. I would guess that this Dawnshard is associated with the same type of investiture that Endowment, and therefore Awakening, is associated with. I wonder if we will see other magic systems that provide similar affects as far as color and sound perception goes. 

 

I have been trying to develop a theory on Dalinar’s odd visions for a while now - obviously some of them are sent by the Stormfather, but others appear to be separate. Particularly the ones that feature a golden light. This appears very similar to the light that Rysn experiences. I would hazard to guess that Dalinar is somehow bonding another Dawnshard, though the mechanics of this I’m sure will not be clear to us for some time. 


The most confusing part of this for me by far is Honor’s lamentation that humanity has apparently “lost” the Dawnshards. He specifically expresses to Dalinar his despair at humanity’s chances against Odium without them. But, clearly, there was a Dawnshard in Aimia this whole time. How do we square these two facts? Was Honor somehow not aware of this Dawnshard? Was it moved to Aimia by the Sleepless sometime after Honor’s death? It does not seem to make sense at this point, and I am desperate to know more. 

Man, I know RoW is only a few weeks away at this point but it can’t come soon enough! Hopefully some of this gets cleared up. 

Edited by lightweaver spy
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4 minutes ago, Kuram said:

What's the GB?

Ghostbloods is how I read it. 

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I wonder if Rysn now had some passive benefits of 4 shard investiture? She notices Endiwnment, but I wonder what else might be in there (or maybe all 4 shards in that team can grant that somehow). 
 

I am thinking the team is based in the “Accept it  Know it  CHANGE”, so

Endowment - change through gift

Cultivation - change through grown 

Ambition - change through will

Maybe Ruin? - Change through time? 
 

Dalinar had also seen words that glow and give off light. Is Unite one of the Dawnshards (maybe a splintered one Odium thought he destroyed or Unmade?) 

Honour

Dominion

Devotion

Preservation? 

 

Edited by teknopathetic
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27 minutes ago, lightweaver spy said:


The most confusing part of this for me by far is Honor’s lamentation that humanity has apparently “lost” the Dawnshards. He specifically expresses to Dalinar his despair at humanity’s chances against Odium without them. But, clearly, there was a Dawnshard in Aimia this whole time. How do we square these two facts? Was Honor somehow not aware of this Dawnshard? Was it moved to Aimia by the Sleepless sometime after Honor’s death? It does not seem to make sense at this point, and I am desperate to know more. 
 

Seems like it was completely hidden. Or Honour lied (shocker!) 

Edited by teknopathetic
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6 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Seems like it was completely hidden. Or Honour lied (shocker!) 

I feel like both of these options are equally crazy to me... can the shard of Honor even lie?! Ugh. I can’t wait for RoW to come along and break my brain even more 

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Just now, lightweaver spy said:

I feel like both of these options are equally crazy to me... can the shard of Honor even lie?! Ugh. I can’t wait for RoW to come along and break my brain even more 

He did die! Maybe he did it for a reason, but that reason ended up shattering him  

I’ve always believed that honour’s death was a suicide for a glorious reason (or possibly he asked cultivation to lay the final blow). 

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6 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

He did die! Maybe he did it for a reason, but that reason ended up shattering him  

I’ve always believed that honour’s death was a suicide for a glorious reason (or possibly he asked cultivation to lay the final blow). 

You know, this theory really rules. Few things strike me as more Honorable than a noble sacrifice, and it totally fits into Cultivation’s intent to plan the killing blow a few thousand years in advance 

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1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

I wonder if Rysn now had some passive benefits of 4 shard investiture? She notices Endiwnment, but I wonder what else might be in there (or maybe all 4 shards in that team can grant that somehow). 
 

I am thinking the team is based in the “Accept it  Know it  CHANGE”, so

Endowment - change through gift

Cultivation - change through grown 

Ambition - change through will

Maybe Ruin? - Change through time? 
 

Dalinar had also seen words that glow and give off light. Is Unite one of the Dawnshards (maybe a splintered one Odium thought he destroyed or Unmade?) 

Honour

Dominion

Devotion

Preservation? 

 

I agree that Honor and Dominion and Devotion are a group. All involve bonds: Devotion is the bonds of people; Dominion is the bond with Land; and Honor is the bonds of the self. Their Dawnshard would be about bonds. Unity? Preservation does not fit in this group.

Endowment, Cultivation, and Ruin all seem to be a group and would be tied to Rysn’s Dawnshard. They’re all change, and I think you’ve got the types right. But I don’t think Ambition goes with them.

I hypothesize that Ambition and Autonomy are in a group, and their Dawnshard may be about will. Ambition is the Will to grow. Autonomy is the Will to be free. Will?

I further hypothesize that Preservation and Odium are in a group. Both have shown elements of the unchanging void. Odium is the unchanging self. Those who bond to him, who give him their pain, become void and are unable to grow. Preservation is the world frozen. It is the void where time does not move. I suspect both are connected to the idea of eternity. Nothing changes in the void.

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I definitely wasn't expecting such momentous thing to happen in this novella. It felt mostly unimportant (not in a bad way, it was still a very fun read without the dawnshards. Well paced, good characters and fun story line). But wow, the dawnshard thing made me sit up straight and think harder. My big question though is why there are more dawnshards on roshar than any where else? Hoid probably has one. I think the same dawnshard that rysn bonded to was used to destroy ashyn (Change can lead to destruction real fast). Of the remaining two, I think atleast one more is on roshar - probably used to make the radiant bonds? Kill Honor? - and it seems possible that another dawnshard is behind Dalinar's visions.

Gah, I need answers.

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1: Not only are Sleepless not native to Roshar, there’s only 24 present on Roshar total. And they can mimic larkin leeching, and apparently have a... lot more hordelings than I thought they did.

2: On Hoid:

Spoiler

It’s confirmed on Reddit that Hoid is a former Dawnshard, which results in his pacifism. Could still have / have access to Dawnshard #2.


I didn’t even catch the grouping... but that makes a lot if sense.

I have a theory one of the Dawnshards could be within Scadrial. Leras “buried” something there, and we never got confirmation he was talking about the atium...

My guess is there aren’t four world-ending  Dawnshards all on Roshar, but I have no idea where #4 could be.

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In a lot of ways the sleepless reminded me of kandra.  The successive generations and acquiring talents. 

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2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I agree that Honor and Dominion and Devotion are a group. All involve bonds: Devotion is the bonds of people; Dominion is the bond with Land; and Honor is the bonds of the self. Their Dawnshard would be about bonds. Unity? Preservation does not fit in this group.

Endowment, Cultivation, and Ruin all seem to be a group and would be tied to Rysn’s Dawnshard. They’re all change, and I think you’ve got the types right. But I don’t think Ambition goes with them.

I hypothesize that Ambition and Autonomy are in a group, and their Dawnshard may be about will. Ambition is the Will to grow. Autonomy is the Will to be free. Will?

I further hypothesize that Preservation and Odium are in a group. Both have shown elements of the unchanging void. Odium is the unchanging self. Those who bond to him, who give him their pain, become void and are unable to grow. Preservation is the world frozen. It is the void where time does not move. I suspect both are connected to the idea of eternity. Nothing changes in the void.

I mostly agree with your first two groupings, but I think Odium fits with the third group, not the fourth. Odium represents not just hate and anger, but also love and passion. I also think the name of the group should be changed from Will to Motivation. Each of the shards in it represent a reason of motivation. Strong feeling, ambition, and autonomy is something to fight for.

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I also think Nohadon held UNiTE as he seems to be lingering in a strange way.  It makes sense that there are two Dawnshards on the Roshar system and Honour talks about the Dawnshard in a plural, and Meleeshi used a Dawnshard known to bind anything (CHANGE does not seem to be the same as BIND/UNITE). 

Edited by teknopathetic
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It's small compared to, ya know, the whole Dawnshards and shattering of Adonalsium. But, we also learned that at least some Horneaters are able to form (probably temporary) bonds with non-Radiant spren. Cord mentions that her dad had the blessings of spren that used to strengthen his arm.

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This is somewhat unrelated to Dawnshards, but the Sleepless seem convinced that the Radients will destroy them, especially Dalinar who has made the choice of honor (probably his 3rd oath). Arclo is a rouge Sleepless as the Sleepless council mentioned. As for this Sleepless council, they seem to give authority to age. A Sleepless’s age goes back to time their swarm was “Separated.” Could this be the result of a Dawnshard dividing them? One of the Sleepless mentions that “you were not yet Separated during the scouring.” So he was partially separated, as the Sleepless said “not yet.” (Maybe I’m reading too much into that “yet”). Nikli also notes that “When the swarm that had become Nikli had been Separated...” So all Sleepless go through a kind of Proto-Sleepless phase where they are a swarm but not yet Separated. The oldest Sleepless seem to have authority, but Nikli mentioned that the oldest is the “oldest of the swarms on Roshar.” On Roshar. There might be older swarms out there, especially considering that the Sleepless aren’t native to Roshar. Only twenty Sleepless accept the rule of the first swarm. Why not all?

Edited by Innovation
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2 hours ago, Gderu said:

I mostly agree with your first two groupings, but I think Odium fits with the third group, not the fourth. Odium represents not just hate and anger, but also love and passion. I also think the name of the group should be changed from Will to Motivation. Each of the shards in it represent a reason of motivation. Strong feeling, ambition, and autonomy is something to fight for.

I can definitely see that.

The thing is, Odium is consistently associated with the void. And when people give him their pain, they stop feeling. I think we need to know more about Odium before we can classify him, honestly.

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15 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Could this be the result of a Dawnshard dividing them?

I think not.  In one of the annotations on reddit he mentions that it would be difficult for a sleepless to independently control two "bodies" and that it would run the risk of creating a  new swarm instead.  Based on that, I believe that a sleepless can apply themselves and separate a part of his swarm into a new sleepless entity.

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