Toaster Retribution

New illustrations of Kalak and Pailiah

18 posts in this topic

Chana and Nale got a thread for their pictures, so in all fairness, Kalak and Pailiah should as well. The art on these two is absolutely amazing, I think. Also, Kalaks Blade looks incredibly cool.

299px-Kalak_Endsheet.png

 

299px-Pailiah_Endsheet.png

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These two are my favourites so far, they look really epic and I like the dynamic in the depictions. 

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I am reposting from the other thread:

Yea, I have now seen Pailiah too and I am disappointed. Wasn't she supposed to appear old? Why the seductive pose? Generally, she and Chana look like generic youngish pretty women. I'd have wished for Chana to look sterner and more military, not just in her outfit, but in her face and expression. And how could team Sanderson have allowed her a naked safehand?! The male Heralds are more diverse and show their character much better, as is sadly usual. I expected more from Sanderson, though.

P.S. I like Kalak. Looks appropriately resolute.

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2 hours ago, Isilel said:

And how could team Sanderson have allowed her a naked safehand?!

From the "safehand" entry in the coppermind:

 

Quote

Safehand is an Alethi term for a female's left hand. According to Vorin cultural tradition,

Nowhere is stated that these pictures are of Vorin or Alethi origin.

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On 10/30/2020 at 7:35 AM, Isilel said:

I am reposting from the other thread:

Yea, I have now seen Pailiah too and I am disappointed. Wasn't she supposed to appear old? Why the seductive pose? Generally, she and Chana look like generic youngish pretty women. I'd have wished for Chana to look sterner and more military, not just in her outfit, but in her face and expression. And how could team Sanderson have allowed her a naked safehand?! The male Heralds are more diverse and show their character much better, as is sadly usual. I expected more from Sanderson, though.

P.S. I like Kalak. Looks appropriately resolute.

Chana is holding a prominent sword and is associated with the most destructive order of Radiants. I think she may be depicted with an exposed safehand to emphasize her masculinity.

She is associated with Brave and Obedient. She’s a female soldier, and that seems to be recognized, but how do you deal with that in a culture where women are not supposed to war? Emphasize that she’s a ‘masculine’ woman.

Her sword is also very straight, as opposed to having a more feminine curve. Also, look at the positioning. A sword going straight down from the pelvis is very masculine. (Pretty sure I don’t need to explain why.)

She is the only woman wearing armor. She is also the only woman not to be drawn so as to bring attention to her body. She’s drawn to read ‘male’ despite being female.

Compare the other female Heralds:

9789B1A4-88BA-4057-B283-B43906DD6B05.thumb.jpeg.9f3a0bc6e40f247e14c3c8e2937a74d3.jpeg8BE049D3-2AF1-4953-8264-55CFA3D19E92.thumb.png.eb82335ef1a285c7b8faecd35bc24b01.png0472299A-8FD8-4016-BE0A-0C769DE6EC51.png.7e205137056b2837fd523e12966255a0.png

Notice how they are all drawn to emphasize their curves and femininity? Also, the latter two are not directly facing the viewer and Vedel is in motion with her head turned away. Meanwhile, Chanarach’s picture looks very like Kalak’s:

AC456E94-CBEF-49DD-B812-ECE438B496E7.png.ce189008e50e49012874629970d6fd0c.png8E8CA2A2-C3D0-4BA8-8DE0-F0DB8405E522.thumb.png.63189f50edfd178b3c702dc4a61810e9.png

You can see the stylistic similarities. Only male characters are looking this directly at the viewer.

DEBB59C0-7253-4E92-BD8E-7ABD57C4B07C.jpeg.80d53fd2f339902af20211eaa539095a.jpeg9D28B85C-8C20-466B-A7DE-97556224FF25.thumb.jpeg.ff36a2f8c044654468e7c74c7cfe4370.jpegBF4B71F3-9D31-4465-B8DB-D82FDA2BA5D9.thumb.png.b1d9d0a0b7cc3e316e27627cc163cd23.png

All three are directly facing the viewer. And all but Jezrian (who is connected to wind) have straight blades. A straight sword is a male symbol. 

Ishar is looking up, and lacks a sword. But his body is drawn on very straight lines and is directly facing the viewer:CC031236-0C39-4DE7-A538-9D3C946FE64B.thumb.png.595a69bb9b938efab83e2e90983ad887.png

Notice how the lower part of his robes implies a sword?


Chana is not meant to be feminine. So no safehand, because men don’t have one.

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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4 hours ago, Isilel said:

I am reposting from the other thread:

Yea, I have now seen Pailiah too and I am disappointed. Wasn't she supposed to appear old? Why the seductive pose? Generally, she and Chana look like generic youngish pretty women. I'd have wished for Chana to look sterner and more military, not just in her outfit, but in her face and expression. And how could team Sanderson have allowed her a naked safehand?! The male Heralds are more diverse and show their character much better, as is sadly usual. I expected more from Sanderson, though.

P.S. I like Kalak. Looks appropriately resolute.

On Pailiah: why would she be old? Is it because of the theory that she is Taravangians ardent? Because right now, it seems to be 50/50 on wether or not she is Battar or Pali, since Mr T claimed she was Battar at the end of Oathbringer. 

Also, I think that it was hinted that Chana is kind of young. Her chapter heading portrait looks like a pretty young woman IMO (I wish they kept her helmet from that in this new illustration). 

Finally, it makes sense for all the Heralds to be conventionally attractive in these pictures, given that these are supposed to be in-world portraits. Generally, people who are admired, or even worshipped, are portrayed favorably by the culture admiring them, which would include looking good. 

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4 hours ago, Isilel said:

I am reposting from the other thread:

Yea, I have now seen Pailiah too and I am disappointed. Wasn't she supposed to appear old? Why the seductive pose? Generally, she and Chana look like generic youngish pretty women. I'd have wished for Chana to look sterner and more military, not just in her outfit, but in her face and expression. And how could team Sanderson have allowed her a naked safehand?! The male Heralds are more diverse and show their character much better, as is sadly usual. I expected more from Sanderson, though.

P.S. I like Kalak. Looks appropriately resolute.

I don't totally disagree with you in Pailiah. I think the artist was trying to reflect her ties to Cultivation, regrowth, etc. by having her in a twisty pose with the vines. It ends up looking a bit seductive.

To be fair, though, the males look like generic pretty men and Chana looks as military as any of them. She doesn't have a stern look on, but Dustbringers are more about serene destruction, and the quirk of a smile does convey that serenity. The safehand wasn't a thing when the Heralds were created. By the youth of these pictures, I'm guessing these were intended to depict them as per-Herald or new Herald, so young.

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These are great! Pailiah looks like she is surrounded by logic spren, and the red things flying around Chana are probably flamespren. The spren on Kalak's portrait could be joyspren or maybe shamespren? But either would be odd imo. Could be a different variety that we havent seen yet. Not much to go on for Nale's either.

Edited by Ciridae
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Kalak looks like a woman in his picture. I keep trying to tell myself it's a man, but I can't see anything but a woman trying to look like a man.

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Has anyone made a stormlight tarot deck? Besides All the pretty heralds as major arcana, we can also have Dalinar as The Tower, Wit/Hold as (naturally), The Fool, and Ol’ Kaladin Stormblest as The Hanged Man.

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On 10/30/2020 at 11:24 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

On Pailiah: why would she be old? Is it because of the theory that she is Taravangian's ardent?

No actually, this one's from back in 2013:

Quote

A light flickering through nearby bookcases startled her, and she tucked away her folio. It turned out to be just an old, berobed female ardent, shuffling with a lantern and followed by a parshman servant. She didn’t look in Shallan’s direction as she turned between two rows of shelves, her lantern’s light shining out through the spaces between the books. Lit that way—with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves—it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks.

We wanted to know if Brandon had the audacity to pull something like this, so we got curious:

Quote

INTERVIEW: Oct 14th, 2013

QUESTION

Is the Palanaeum named for Palah?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. In fact, it was named based on—it was Greek in our world—the Athenaeum? It was based off of that.

WETLANDER

Did we see Palah?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I believe every one of the Heralds is mentioned or shown somewhere in the first book.

WETLANDER

Someone was wondering whether the old woman who was wandering around the Palanaeum was her.

BRANDON SANDERSON

That is a very good guess. I won't say specifically, because some of them are intended to be more obvious and some of them are intended to be red herrings. So, that was a very good guess.


The Sovereign: There is a scene in WoK where Shallan comments on seeing someone wandering the stacks of the Palanaeum, Brandon has confirmed this is indeed Paliah. WoB referencing this from 2013(and linked above); Brandon confirmed this theory was actually correct in person for me last year at a signing when I brought it up to him.
The Sovereign: The inside cover of my Bands of Mourning Copy <3. A friend is borrowing my Era 2 books at the moment but I'll take a picture of it when I get it back.
Source.

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2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

No actually, this one's from back in 2013:

First off, long time no see! Good to connect with you again!

Second, that was what I referred to. Brandon has said there is only one Herald with Mr T, so if the old ardent is Pali, Pali has to be Dova.

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14 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Brandon has said there is only one Herald with Mr T,

The spirit animal of Devil's Advocacy is specific wording. (I feel like I spent more time trying to make this sound clever than I spent on the actual post... Also yea, I'll be around now and then.)

Quote

R'Shara
A long time ago, where you said that Pailiah was the elderly ardent in Kharbranth that Shallan saw, is that right?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes? If you say I said that, then I did.

Questioner 2
Does that mean it is still true?

Brandon Sanderson
Let's just say there is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian.

R'Shara
It was in a signed book but we never got a picture of it.

Brandon Sanderson
There is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian. I'm not being sneaky about that.

R'Shara
Is there more than one?

Brandon Sanderson
There have been in the past, but there is only one that you would call influencing him right now. But there have been others in the past.

He says there has been more than one Herald in his proximity at one time or another, but only one is presently influencing him. If we assume that Pailiah and Battar were both in the city, then there's no contradiction if Pailiah left during WoR/ED(there is a herald in proximity) and/or she was in the city for research purposes rather than influencing Taravangian and co(only one influencing rn).

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3 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

The spirit animal of Devil's Advocacy is specific wording. (I feel like I spent more time trying to make this sound clever than I spent on the actual post... Also yea, I'll be around now and then.)

He says there has been more than one Herald in his proximity at one time or another, but only one is presently influencing him. If we assume that Pailiah and Battar were both in the city, then there's no contradiction if Pailiah left during WoR/ED(there is a herald in proximity) and/or she was in the city for research purposes rather than influencing Taravangian and co(only one influencing rn).

Very fair point. However, the whole "which/how many Heralds are in Kharbranth" - discussion is a little fuzzy. But it is entirely possible that you are right.

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On 10/30/2020 at 7:35 AM, Isilel said:

And how could team Sanderson have allowed her a naked safehand

Safehand is a modern invention, it happened way after the last desolation

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Just because Pailiah appears to be elderly doesn't mean she really is, she could be pulling a Hoid or utilizing a surge fabrial to regain her power of Illumination.

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Ummm. Am I looking at a different image than everybody else? Pailiah is clearly wearing a glove on her left hand. 

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52 minutes ago, IntentAwesome said:

Ummm. Am I looking at a different image than everybody else? Pailiah is clearly wearing a glove on her left hand. 

Pailiah is, Chana is not. 

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