Categorization of the Unmade

[Stormwalker]

Idea: On my recent re-read of Oathbringer it came to me that perhaps unmade come in 3 different groups.

First, the facts:

Most of the information we have on unmade in general seem to come from the in-world book, Hessi's Mythica. Of course it can be disputed whether Hessi was right about her claims, but given how accurately (surprisingly so) her information lines up with what we have directly seen about the unmade (The thrill and Moelach mostly), I feel we can mostly trust her, and I will assume she is mostly correct from now on. Regardless of this, I believe we have WoB that there are indeed 9 unmade, and Hessi combined with a choice deathrattle epigraph in tWoK leads us to list these as the 9 unmade:

• Ashertmarn/the Heart of the Revel
• Nergaoul/the Thrill
• Yelig-nar/the Blightwind
• Sja-anat/the Taker of Secrets
• Re-Shephir/the Midnight Mother
• Moelach
• Ba-Ado-Mishram (B-A-M)
• Dai-Gonarthis/the Black Fisher
• Chemoarish/the Dustmother

Now of these, the first 5 we've directly seen (as of Oathbringer), Moelach we've indirectly seen, B-A-M we've heard a lot about, Dai-Gonarthis we've heard a tiny bit amount, and the Dustmother we've heard nothing about (as far as I'm aware). I will say this here, that clearly this means anything I say about Dai-Gonarthis and the Dustmother is going to be pure speculation, and are realistically just wildcards in any theory about the unmade.

 

However, we know one other important piece of information about the unmade as a whole, and that is that 3 of the unmade are basically mindless forces:

Quote

Lore suggested leaving a city if spren start acting strangely. Curiously, Sja-anat was often regarded as an individual, when others--like Moelach or Ashertmarn--were seen as forces.

Quote

Ashertmarn, the Heart of the Revel, is the final of the three great mindless Unmade. His gift to men is not prophecy or battle focus, but is lust for indulgence. Indeed, the great debauchery recorded form the court of Bayala in 480--which led to dynastic collapse--might be attributable to the influence of Ashertmarn.

(from Hessi's Mythica as part of the epigraphs of Oathbringer.)

So apparently, these three unmade -- Ashertmarn, Nergaoul, and Moelach -- form a category of "mindless" unmade. Now, to me, it felt weird that there would just be three unmade that were singled out as mindless and the rest more sentient. Moreover, the fact that it was exactly three of them (3 goes in into 9 perfectly), made me theorize my main point: that there are 3 different categories of 3 unmade each.

The Theory:

The corrupters

So the question is: What are the 2 other categories of unmade? My own thoughts about this come from Yelig-nar. Yelig-nar has always seemed to me like a corrupter of people. You start with only a moderately evil guy like Amaram or Aesudan (or possibly one of Nohadon's own men of learning?), you give them a gemstone, and you get a super powerful, super evil monstrosity. The idea of using power as an incentive to corrupt people also seems fitting. Because of this, I think Yelig-nar should be grouped with Sja-anat in the category of "corrupting" unmade. Sja-anat is the corrupter of spren, and Yelig-nar is a corrupter of people.

As to the third unmade in this category, I'm somewhat split. I have 2 candidates: Re-Shephir and Dai-gonarthis. Dai-gonarthis, as pointed out is a wildcard, and is mostly a hunch that I can't really explain well, but Re-Shephir has some evidence. Namely, we see in Oathbringer, that the midnight essences that the midnight mother creates seem to be corrupted forms of other things. e.g., looking like people Re-Shephir has seen, but with features that are off, or the distorted forms of beasts. The main reason I dislike Re-Shephir in this category, in fact, is that I just prefer her in the next one.

Quote

It was Navani, a gaping hole in her face, black smoke escaping with a hiss. Even ignoring that, the features were off. The nose too big, one eye a little higher than the other.

Quote

The newer figures forming up were increasingly distorted, more bestial, spiny teeth spilling from their mouths.

(Oathbringer, p305,306, describing midnight essences)

The brain bugs

The last category is mostly centered around the role (as we know it) of B-A-M. The unmade, being splinters of Odium and possibly his analogue of the heralds, seem to me like they should include the role of the leaders and generals of his war-effort/people -- the brain bugs, if you will, of the voidbringers (I don't know why I like calling them that so much, I haven't even read the starship troopers books, only seen the movie). This is of course most clearly seen in B-A-M herself, who Hessi claimed was a commander during some of the Desolations and who was able to power the voidbringers in the false desolation. The 2 other unmade I would like to put in this category are Re-Shephir and the Dustmother (with Dai-gonarthis swapped in for Re-Shephir of course if you prefer her in the previous category). The reason I put Re-Shephir here, is because she too acts like a general of sorts. Not of humans or parshendi, but of her own midnight essences. One could imagine that all we've seen is a small use of her power (perhaps due to fear, surprise, or a lack of command/connection to Odium), and that in the full swing of a desolation, the midnight mother commands a whole army of essences, and thus surely deserves a spot as a commander of Odium. The Dustmother then seems like a likely candidate for this category as well. Although we know next to nothing about her, the inclusion of the word mother in her name, just as in Re-Shephir's, makes me think she also spawns something, and so might have a similar role.

 

The sub-theory: finer divisions

Going further with less evidence, I think we may be able to subdivide these categories even more. Namely, I propose that each of the 3 unmade in a category correspond to the 3 realms.

Lets start with the mindless unmade as they are the most familiar. The easiest one here is Moelach, who as far as we know, grants brief future sight as people are dying as seen in the form of deathrattles. I believe we know by WoB (although I have no reference to it) that seeing the future is associated with the spiritual realm, so I feel Moelach should be a spiritual unmade. Next is Ashertmarn. Ashertmarn seemingly makes people want to indulge in the physical pleasures, so I put him as a physical unmade. Lastly, we have Nergaoul. Nergaoul is what gives the thrill, which I feel can only be described as a state of mind, where the afflicted is in a state of bloodlust, and is otherwise, well, not thinking at all. Like they've been robbed of thought. Thus, we put him as a cognitive unmade. It also appears, although perhaps it is a coincidence, that Nergaoul and Moelach are not visible (ie, seemingly not in the physical realm) when they cause their effect (the end of Oathbringer excluded, where Odium actively brings Nergaoul into the physical realm). Ashertmarn, on the other hand, was physically manifested in Kholinar where his influence was. Perhaps each unmade chiefly resides in its corresponding realm, although this isn't necessary to the theory.

Next, the corrupters. Right off the bat we have Sja-anat, who, as the corrupter of spren, clearly deserves to be called a cognitive unmade. Next up is Yelig-nar, who corrupts people by radically altering their spiritual aspect -- as evidenced by giving them powers and forming a bond. He is also said to consume souls, which certainly sounds spiritual in nature. For this I put him as the spiritual corrupter. Lastly, we still know nothing of Dai-gonarthis, but if Re-Sphephir is a corrupter, she certainly would fit being the physical one, as she merely corrupts the physical form of the things that she copies.

Lastly, the leaders. B-A-M clearly deserves to be the spiritual leader, given that she connected with the parsh and allowed them access to voidlight in the false desolation. Re-shephir, if here, again seems like a physical leader. After all, her essences don't really have a mind of their own, they are merely physical bodies that are commanded. And that leaves the Dustmother as the cognitive leader, which in my mind, even makes sense if you count as evidence that she should be similar enough in some way to the Nightwatcher that myth could conflate the two.

Thus, in the end, we have this list of the categorization of unmade:

Mindless unmade:

• Ashertmarn - physical
• Nergaoul - cognitive
• Moelach - spiritual

Corrupter unmade:

• Dai-gonarthis/Re-shephir - physical
• Sja-anat - cognitive
• Yelig-nar - spiritual

Leader unmade:

• Re-Shephir/Dai-gonarthis - physical
• Dustmother - cognitive
• Ba-ado-Mishram - spritual

And that's the theory.

tldr: 3 categories of unmade, each one containing one unmade associated in some way with each of the realms.

[Honorless]

Ashertmarn and Nergaoul also corrupt people

[Vessel of Theory]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Ashertmarn and Nergaoul also corrupt people

Not necessarily the word I'd use, friend

 

5 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

Thus, in the end, we have this list of the categorization of unmade:

Mindless unmade:

• Ashertmarn - physical
• Nergaoul - cognitive
• Moelach - spiritual

Corrupter unmade:

• Dai-gonarthis/Re-shephir - physical
• Sja-anat - cognitive
• Yelig-nar - spiritual

Leader unmade:

• Re-Shephir/Dai-gonarthis - physical
• Dustmother - cognitive
• Ba-ado-Mishram - spritual

And that's the theory.

tldr: 3 categories of unmade, each one containing one unmade associated in some way with each of the realms.

This. Is. Brilliant. I love it.

 

As for @Honorless's statement that Ashertmarn and Nergaoul "corrupt" people: Do they corrupt people, or simply encourage mindlessness, which is able to be perceived as corruption? All of the Unmade share similarities, and I think that that is part of what makes them so fun to think about and debate about. I might switch around Nergaoul and Ashertmarn for which corrupts which focus realm, but I absolutely love this. 

Ashertmarn I would say encourages cognitive mindlessness because when you join the Revel, you lose sight of your mind, letting it unravel into a more visceral, primitive state. Nergaoul would go into physical mindlessness because it promotes irresponsibility, recklessness, violence, etc. In short, these are all more primitive, "mindless" states of being.

[+JesterLavorre]

As an avid fan of grouping absolutely everything, I really like this. I like each unmade corresponding to a realm. I have a theory which I haven’t posted yet about the something similar with the Bondsmith spren.

My one problem is Nergaoul, because he seems like both a mindless unmade and a corrupter. He corrupts people, in this case, with battle rage instead of Ashertmarn’s gluttony.

[kaellok]

17 minutes ago, JesterLavorre said:

As an avid fan of grouping absolutely everything, I really like this. I like each unmade corresponding to a realm. I have a theory which I haven’t posted yet about the something similar with the Bondsmith spren.

My one problem is Nergaoul, because he seems like both a mindless unmade and a corrupter. He corrupts people, in this case, with battle rage instead of Ashertmarn’s gluttony.

I disagree that Nergaoul would fit in the corrupter category.  Sja-anat and Yelig-nar both have very distinct corruptive attributes which have a unique manifestation in the Physical Realm.  I think that Re-shephir does not strongly fit in this category, but if you do, then the Midnight Essence also has a quite distinctly distorted manifestation on the Physical Realm; we don't actually know enough about Dai-Gonarthis for comparison.

Nergaoul, and the Thrill, is like a drug which inflames passions in people, and also causes them to suffer from withdrawal when it is gone.  While that can be (and is) used to corrupt people, that's more of a secondary effect of its nature, rather than the primary focus.  Kind of like how a needle can be used to poke someone, and it'll hurt and do damage (possibly even extreme damage), but it's really there as a tool to allow you to sew.  Ashertmarn is basically the same in this case, and I firmly believe that they belong in the same broad category as Nergaoul (whichever that may be).

[+Oltux72]

You are switching categories. The mindless Unmade are grouped by their mental faculties, while the rest is not. If yoy real want to group the by that, you'd end up with

- the Mindless: Ashertmarn, Nergaoul, Moelach

- the Alens: Re-Shephir. She showed some sapience but did not understand people

- the Humans: Sja-Anat, Yelig-Nar, Ba-Ado-Mishram

If you insist that the groups be of equal size (which we have proof of) Dai-Gonarthis and Chemoarish would need to go into the Alien category

[Vessel of Theory]

8 hours ago, JesterLavorre said:

As an avid fan of grouping absolutely everything, I really like this. I like each unmade corresponding to a realm. I have a theory which I haven’t posted yet about the something similar with the Bondsmith spren.

My one problem is Nergaoul, because he seems like both a mindless unmade and a corrupter. He corrupts people, in this case, with battle rage instead of Ashertmarn’s gluttony.

I'm excited for you to post it, can't wait for another great theory!

 

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You are switching categories. The mindless Unmade are grouped by their mental faculties, while the rest is not.

Just because they aren't grouped tangibly in the books doesn't mean they aren't grouped - that'd be like saying that no theory is valid unless it is written out word for word in the books. @Stormwalker mused on the thought that some of the Unmade were classified as "Mindless", and then noticed a potential pattern that they shared with us. While it could be that the Unmade do all belong in categories, it isn't conclusive that because the mindless Unmade were the only ones grouped in Hessina's Mythica there aren't any other groups. It could be that they just hadn't gotten that far in the train of thought.

Sorry if this comes off as rude, I'm trying to debate and I know that  some things I say come off/sound differently than I want them to.

[Stormwalker]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You are switching categories. The mindless Unmade are grouped by their mental faculties, while the rest is not. If yoy real want to group the by that, you'd end up with

- the Mindless: Ashertmarn, Nergaoul, Moelach

- the Alens: Re-Shephir. She showed some sapience but did not understand people

- the Humans: Sja-Anat, Yelig-Nar, Ba-Ado-Mishram

If you insist that the groups be of equal size (which we have proof of) Dai-Gonarthis and Chemoarish would need to go into the Alien category

You are assuming my names for the categories are themselves the determining factor. There might be many similarities between the unmade of one category.

For example, the first categories unmade are all mindless, but according to Hessi, they also seem to act on both sides of the conflict equally, unlike the other unmade. Perhaps the determiner is then how the unmade act on others, and not their consciousness. One could say that the mindless unmade are forces that affect both sides symmetrically, my "corrupters" are individuals affecting the enemy, and the leaders are things that affect (odium's) allies.

Quote

Nergaoul was known for driving forces into battle rage, lending them great ferocity. Curiously, he did this to both sides of a conflict, Voidbringer and human. This seems common in the less self-aware spren.

(Relevant quote from Hessi)

Each category could have many similarities that separate it from the rest. In fact, now that I think of it, one could easily theorize that the corrupters (Yelig-nar and Sja-anat as we've seen) are individuals, and the leaders (Re-Shephir as we've seen) are hive minds. B-A-M being some sort of hive mind would fit with her connecting to all the parsh, and would also fit Chemoarish being called a 'mother'.

Nonetheless, I am actually quite flexible on what the categories are, as I do feel there are a lot of unknowns, and a lot of my theory seems forced. I do, however, really like there being 3 groups of 3.

[+JesterLavorre]

5 hours ago, Vessel of Theory said:

I'm excited for you to post it, can't wait for another great theory!

I may be while . It's pretty underdeveloped right now.

13 hours ago, kaellok said:

I disagree that Nergaoul would fit in the corrupter category.  Sja-anat and Yelig-nar both have very distinct corruptive attributes which have a unique manifestation in the Physical Realm.  I think that Re-shephir does not strongly fit in this category, but if you do, then the Midnight Essence also has a quite distinctly distorted manifestation on the Physical Realm; we don't actually know enough about Dai-Gonarthis for comparison.

Nergaoul, and the Thrill, is like a drug which inflames passions in people, and also causes them to suffer from withdrawal when it is gone.  While that can be (and is) used to corrupt people, that's more of a secondary effect of its nature, rather than the primary focus.  Kind of like how a needle can be used to poke someone, and it'll hurt and do damage (possibly even extreme damage), but it's really there as a tool to allow you to sew.  Ashertmarn is basically the same in this case, and I firmly believe that they belong in the same broad category as Nergaoul (whichever that may be).

Fair enough. There are definitely multiple interpretations, and I could definitely buy this one.

5 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

You are assuming my names for the categories are themselves the determining factor. There might be many similarities between the unmade of one category.

For example, the first categories unmade are all mindless, but according to Hessi, they also seem to act on both sides of the conflict equally, unlike the other unmade. Perhaps the determiner is then how the unmade act on others, and not their consciousness. One could say that the mindless unmade are forces that affect both sides symmetrically, my "corrupters" are individuals affecting the enemy, and the leaders are things that affect (odium's) allies.

(Relevant quote from Hessi)

Each category could have many similarities that separate it from the rest. In fact, now that I think of it, one could easily theorize that the corrupters (Yelig-nar and Sja-anat as we've seen) are individuals, and the leaders (Re-Shephir as we've seen) are hive minds. B-A-M being some sort of hive mind would fit with her connecting to all the parsh, and would also fit Chemoarish being called a 'mother'.

Nonetheless, I am actually quite flexible on what the categories are, as I do feel there are a lot of unknowns, and a lot of my theory seems forced. I do, however, really like there being 3 groups of 3.

I like this idea. It makes me wonder whether the categories somehow correspond to how the unmade were created. Sja-anat says she was "made and then unmade", so maybe this alludes to what each unmade was unmade from? Maybe the "hive-mind" unmade were created from Sleepless, or something? Though, that's a pretty big leap, so maybe not.

[+Bzhydack]

@StormwalkerIts very plausible theory! I like IT.

But, i think we can upgrade IT. 

I think Dai-Gonarthis is brain bug. I have theory that he is able to mental manipulation and causes long-burning conflicts - so this will make him Cognitive brain bug.

Spiritual - BAM

Cognitive - Dai-Gonarthis

Physical - Re-Sephir.

So, this mean Chemoarish will be Physical corrupter - what make sense. She is Dustmother, Mother-of-dust. Is possibile that she is most Physical Unmade, with ability to literaly decay things? Ashertmarn seems to have some temporal abilities, maybe she Has them too?

[Halyo_Alex]

59 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

@StormwalkerIts very plausible theory! I like IT.

But, i think we can upgrade IT. 

I think Dai-Gonarthis is brain bug. I have theory that he is able to mental manipulation and causes long-burning conflicts - so this will make him Cognitive brain bug.

Spiritual - BAM

Cognitive - Dai-Gonarthis

Physical - Re-Sephir.

So, this mean Chemoarish will be Physical corrupter - what make sense. She is Dustmother, Mother-of-dust. Is possibile that she is most Physical Unmade, with ability to literaly decay things? Ashertmarn seems to have some temporal abilities, maybe she Has them too?

Personal hypothesis (based partly on her name of Dustmother, partly on her alleged involvement in the Scouring of Aimia with Yelig-Nar) is that she can degrade the sense of logic that people have, making them do stupid or dangerous stuff in pursuit of reasonable goals...

dangerous stuff like agreeing to use Yelig-Nar's power for "good purposes", but then falling victim to his power, and thus causing the Scouring.

[Stormwalker]

On 10/28/2020 at 11:52 PM, Bzhydack said:

@StormwalkerIts very plausible theory! I like IT.

But, i think we can upgrade IT. 

I think Dai-Gonarthis is brain bug. I have theory that he is able to mental manipulation and causes long-burning conflicts - so this will make him Cognitive brain bug.

Spiritual - BAM

Cognitive - Dai-Gonarthis

Physical - Re-Sephir.

So, this mean Chemoarish will be Physical corrupter - what make sense. She is Dustmother, Mother-of-dust. Is possibile that she is most Physical Unmade, with ability to literaly decay things? Ashertmarn seems to have some temporal abilities, maybe she Has them too?

Could be. As I said, Dai-Gonarthis and Chemoarish can mostly be interchanged as we know too little about them.

On 10/29/2020 at 0:53 AM, Halyo_Alex said:

Personal hypothesis (based partly on her name of Dustmother, partly on her alleged involvement in the Scouring of Aimia with Yelig-Nar) is that she can degrade the sense of logic that people have, making them do stupid or dangerous stuff in pursuit of reasonable goals...

dangerous stuff like agreeing to use Yelig-Nar's power for "good purposes", but then falling victim to his power, and thus causing the Scouring.

Are you saying that there's evidence that the Dustmother and Yelig-nar were involved in the scouring of Aimia? Are you confusing it with Hessi's claim that Dai-gonarthis (the black fisher) was involved? Or is there some information I don't know of?

[Halyo_Alex]

7 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

Are you confusing it with Hessi's claim that Dai-gonarthis (the black fisher) was involved

...Yyyyyyyyyep. That's exactly what happened.

[KandraAllomancer]

@Stormwalker I generally agree with @Oltux72's idea about the classification, but I think you make a great point about categorizing the Unmade in two ways and using their roles (e.g. leader) for that.

If I had to propose a full classification, than the first level would be:

The Mindless Unmade: Ashertmarn, Nergaoul, Moelach, obviously. They tend to affect minds for the most part, so I would classify them all as Cognitive

The kind-of-clever Unmade (we know too little to propose a better name): Re-Shephir, Chemoarish, Dai-gonarthis. Re-Shephir's modus operandi, the great scale of Aimia's destruction and the name Dustmother make me think they would be Physical

The Intelligent Unmade: Sja-Anat, Yelig-Nar, Ba-Ado-Mishram. What they do (rewriting spiritweb, talking via corrupted spren, granting all Surges, massive Connection) seems mostly Spiritual to me

There's clearly another level of classification though:

Leaders: BAM and Nergaoul lead people/singers to battle. We don't know that much about Chemoarish or Dai-gonarthis to be sure which fits here, to be honest

Spies: Sja-anat and Moelach seem to spy for Odium. Once again, I'm not sure if it's Chemoarish or Dai-gonarthis that fits into this category

Terror / chaos / anarchy agents: the Unmade that can get behind enemy lines to cause destruction and sow chaos. I would classify Yelig-Nar, Re-Shephir and Ashertmarn here