RoW Chapter 17 Discussion

[+honorblades]

“The Dustbringers continue to flirt with rebellion, often ignoring Dalinar’s orders”

You know, for an Order known for being oft maligned and misunderstood, the Dustbringers certainly seem to straight up suck. I think the rumors are true.
 

There is something so hilarious about Wit nonchalantly going to fetch the Heralds. Oh don’t worry, brb, just gonna grab the Heralds of the Almighty.

 

lol, the Shin take aggressive neutrality to a whole new level.

Edited October 27, 2020 by lightweaver spy

[Pattern]

3 minutes ago, Bliev said:

Info dump extraordinaire. I love how he's just ....giving us this info. It's amazing. Aluminum, Shin, God King, Dustbringer revolts, Taravangian, Wit, Heralds, Jezrien. Wow.

And a roadmap to book 5. First get a hold in the Makabaki region. Shinovar might be dealt with in book 5 - Szeth's book.

3 minutes ago, lightweaver spy said:

There is something so hilarious about Wit nonchalantly going to fetch the Heralds. Oh don’t worry, brb, just gonna grab the Heralds of the Almighty.

Quote

"Two gods," Wit said, "delivered as requested."

My kind of humor...

Edited October 27, 2020 by Pattern

[Nathrangking]

2 minutes ago, lightweaver spy said:

There is something so hilarious about Wit nonchalantly going to fetch the Heralds. Oh don’t worry, brb, just gonna grab the Heralds of the Almighty.

How did you know that that is the name of Hoid's new band? On the drums the mad Herald Ishar!!

[+Child of Hodor]

8 minutes ago, Karger said:

JASNAH! JASNAH! JASNAH!  I chose well in my celebrity crush.

She's the best!

Quote

There was a mystery about this Wit that Navani had never noticed during Elhokar’s reign. Perhaps he molded himself to the monarch he served.

I guess Jasnah didn't share with everyone that Wit new the Herald's and gave them accurate drawings of them. She'd  have a lot more specific questions about him if she knew that.

 

[+Bliev]

Just now, Child of Hodor said:

I guess Jasnah didn't share with everyone that Wit new the Herald's and gave them accurate drawings of them. She'd  have a lot more specific questions about him if she knew that.

 

Navani wouldn't even know to ask. And she's downright intimidated by her daughter. Jasnah isn't the type to supply unnecessary information. My guess is that she'd tell Navani if she asked, but she doesn't. 

[yulerule]

I freely admit we haven't seen much of Jasnah and Hoid for a while, but from the very last chapter of WoR:

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“No, really. If you did know me, that river of annoyance would be an ocean, obviously. Regardless. I know things that you do not, and I think you might actually know some that I do not. That gives us what is called synergy. If you can contain your annoyance, we might both learn something.”

So I feel like Jasnah will take Hoid's throwaway comments more seriously. 

And anyway, with all the we readers know (or don't know, actually) about Hoid, he strikes me as the last person in the Cosmere who's going to be in a relationship with anyone. Unless it's with a Shardholder.

[Friendshipspren]

18 minutes ago, Honorless said:

 

3) Mink's hyper paranoid reaction reminded me of Vin a bit

6) Ishar's forces are behind enemy lines, who are sandwiched between him & the coalition over in Emul. I think this might be where the Skybreakers who joined Odium under Nale's guidance strike. Nale still listens to Ishar.

Oh yeah vin would have probably Pushed a Storm of coins at the illusion before jumping out the window. 

Oh yeah. I had never taught about how nale would react to Odium trying to kill ishar but now it seems ishar is on Odium's side too. Hmmm but we don't know for sure yet. 

Whether he really is with Odium now.  Maybe odium just hasn't attacked him cause nale loves him and he doesn't wanna lose the skybreakers. 

Or maybe he just doesn't care about ishar anymore. 

[Kittalia]

I think the strange metal must be an alloy of aluminum, not straight aluminum. We know they can soulcast aluminum because of Shallan's necklace in her flashbacks, and Navani doesn't recognize the metal. And we know that some alloys of aluminum are investiture-inert like (MB era 2)

Spoiler

the ones used for Wax's guns.

I'd guess it's a stronger alloy that they don't know how to forge or soulcast, and their metallurgy isn't enough that they can connect it to aluminum

 

Also, relevant WoB on Hoid/Jasnah:

 

Quote

 

Questioner

My question is a follow up to what you answered in my Well of Ascension. I asked if Hoid had any love interests, and you said, "Several". My follow up question is, have we seen any of those *inaudible*.

Brandon Sanderson

They will show up in various books but you have not seen them yet. They're *inaudible*.

Footnote: That entry can be found here.
FanX 2018 (Sept. 8, 2018)

 

 

[+Bliev]

4 minutes ago, Kittalia said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Also, relevant WoB on Hoid/Jasnah:

 

 

Boy, I have to say, I would *LOVE* a Wit/Jasnah fling. Just for funsies. I don't think Brandon has the "casual fling without any strings attached" in him though. Jasnah, as pragmatic as she is, surely would if she had the inclination and felt safe enough to engage, but my guess is that there's no actual relationship between them save information sharing and ally ship. But I'm having fun imagining this one. So much wit. So much snark. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Bliev

[Govir]

 

48 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Faith of the Fallen

I did not expect to see a Terry Goodkind reference here, but Faith of the Fallen is probably my favorite of that terrible series.

 

35 minutes ago, Karger said:

This is obviously the most important take away from the chapter.  It will probably become one of the most hotly debated topics until we get a strait answer but.  Are Jasnah and Hoid a thing?

I mean, we know they're not, but I can definitely see how the in-world characters could think that's what's going on.

[Pattern]

One more thing I totally forgot:

Jasnah plans to abolish slavery. This would be of utmost importance - first to get Roshar into the modern ages economically, second to make peace with the Singers - the former Parshmen - possible at all.

[KidWayne]

I'm curious to know whether anyone has any thoughts on why Ishar/Tezim is holding back? 

I know some have connected him to epigraphs that suggest a traitor, so do we think he is a fully committed ally of Odium or is he just a total loose cannon? 

[Mage of Lirigon]

31 minutes ago, lightweaver spy said:

lol, the Shin take aggressive neutrality to a whole new level.

I wonder if they're actually on Odium's side? They could have been for a while. It might also explain what happened to Szeth.

[+Bliev]

5 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Jasnah plans to abolish slavery. This would be of utmost importance - first to get Roshar into the modern ages economically, second to make peace with the Singers - the former Parshmen - possible at all.

Yes, this is huge. It would be a watershed moment for our reticent Last Listener to envision a world free from slavery of any kind, FREEDOM if I may?? Willshapers as liberators. 

I think we have found Venli's plot line. 

Timbre wants her to capture a radiant...but what if he next oath is about liberation?

[Aon Tia]

Wow, this weeks chapter is here

So epigraph talks about aluminium, great! 
 

We learn more about those 3D maps! Now that they have mentioned it, j hope Dalinar combines his power with atleast one other radiant order in this book. Please please! 

Finallly, we have Jasnah the queen onscreen! And Hoid is now Queen’s Wit!!!? What!! Awesome! I bet she knows more about him than elhokar ever did! Makes me wonder how much he has shared with her! 
 

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Yet he was… different now. Navani often noted him and Jasnah whispering in conspiratorial tones during meetings

And it was good of Navani to inform us about the current situation of war on Roshar. What is occupied territory and what is contested. 

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He thought if he’d been able to quash the squabbling highprinces and finish the war at the Shattered Plains, Alethkar would not have fallen.

Well, it is hard to disagree with Dalinar, here. Now that you think about it, it is hardly a surprise that Alethkar fell to enemy forces. They had long neglected it and it is very heavily foreshadowed in Way of kings in Dalinar’s pov. 
And we finally know what the skybreakers 
Have been upto. Hmm sighs. 
And dustbringers as an entire order of radiants is opposed to the radiants and their spren wants revenge against humans and not just spark and malata. That is sad to know. 
 

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I do not trust the Blackthorn, but perhaps I can trust the man who would write the words you did.”

Hmm. I want a more proper addressing of that book by someone like adolin or Renarin’s and not just a passing remark on the book by the mink. 
Well, I dare say I like the mink. And something tells me that so will Dalinar. 
There are rumours about Jasnah and Wit! Raised eyebrows. I want Jasnadin not jasnit. 
 

Quote

There is no more Oathpact.”

“And do you think Dalinar,” Jasnah asked, “as a Bondsmith, could repair or replicate it somehow? Sealing the enemy away?”

Seems to be how we might end the 1st arc of SA then. 
All in all I think a good chapter. Info-dump but such chapters are needed. 
And Emul might be where Dalinar and Jasnah will be, away from the tower when Robarien will go for her plan. Exciting times ahead. 

[Mage of Lirigon]

8 minutes ago, Pattern said:

One more thing I totally forgot:

Jasnah plans to abolish slavery. This would be of utmost importance - first to get Roshar into the modern ages economically, second to make peace with the Singers - the former Parshmen - possible at all.

This was easily my favourite part. I really loved how Jasnah did not let Dalinar and Navani's reticence slow her down. She was perfectly right when she said history has a way of catching up with people, which is why they need to move forward.

[+Child of Hodor]

There is a WoB saying the Oathpact is not as broken as the Heralds think it is. Ash is wrong.https://wob.coppermind.net/events/160/#e2893

Seeing that Wit is in the "inner circle" convinces me he's the spy. 

 

[Ailvara]

Forget Jasnah/Wit. Given her abolition of slavery there is one entirely different character that I want to see her interact with ASAP.

[Truthless of Shinovar]

Any one else get the feeling that Jasnah is going to become a Cosmere player eventually/might have already started on that path? Before the series even started, she was aware of the Cognitive Realm and could apparently navigate it, indicating she’d been there before. And this entire book, I feel like she’s been kinda mysterious and hiding a lot of her motives even from her family, maybe protecting them from more truths that would simply serve to distract them? And, of course, with Wit as her best bud I feel like she’ll be prying up a lot of answers from him as well.

[+Oltux72]

We have a confirmation about Roshar's ecology. Even major rivers are not permanent.

[Realmatic Shadow]

15 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

Forget Jasnah/Wit. Given her abolition of slavery there is one entirely different character that I want to see her interact with ASAP.

Not quite sure how our resident Flying Bridgeboy will react to that. On the one hand, probably happy that nobody else will have to go through that in future, and those that are currently suffering the system are allowed to live more freely; but he might also see it as a slight to those that have worked through the system and survived until now...

You can very easily see how Szeth will end up in Shinovar next book, with a key focus of theirs now being consolidating their power in Makabak, and pushing into Shinovar to discover what they can about what they know of the surges, to see what they can do with their resident Bondsmith.

[psc92]

I love that some people in-world are thinking that Jasnah and Hoid are a thing, when in reality they are probably spending their alone time having discussions about important realmatic things where 98% of the conversation is him annoying the hell out of her and the other 2% is actual useful information. Just enough for her to keep him around.

[+Bliev]

21 minutes ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Any one else get the feeling that Jasnah is going to become a Cosmere player eventually/might have already started on that path? Before the series even started, she was aware of the Cognitive Realm and could apparently navigate it, indicating she’d been there before. And this entire book, I feel like she’s been kinda mysterious and hiding a lot of her motives even from her family, maybe protecting them from more truths that would simply serve to distract them? And, of course, with Wit as her best bud I feel like she’ll be prying up a lot of answers from him as well.

Agreed.

Jasnah as book 10 adds credence to this too. She knows more than she says, and bc we rarely get a POV from her, we don't know what she knows. She is logic before all else, and so if she has become more Cosmere aware, then surely that is factoring into her strategy. I can honestly say it's better for Roshar to have Jasnah at the helm than Dalinar though. Their leadership styles are very different, but very well suited to each task.

[Raphaborn]

Right now, Elend is proud in the Beyond.

[I Am A Fish]

3 minutes ago, Bliev said:

Agreed.

Jasnah as book 10 adds credence to this too. She knows more than she says, and bc we rarely get a POV from her, we don't know what she knows. She is logic before all else, and so if she has become more Cosmere aware, then surely that is factoring into her strategy. I can honestly say it's better for Roshar to have Jasnah at the helm than Dalinar though. Their leadership styles are very different, but very well suited to each task.

So, I just found this.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Me making a book about someone is not a promise they'll live until that book. So the fact that Jasnah gets book ten does not mean necessarily mean Jasnah survives until book ten.