theory 16 Heightening?

[Aspiring Writer]

Okay, me was having a thinky think about heightening when it hit me... there must be sixteen heightenings. A lot of the magic systems either relate to the cosmere as a whole or with their shard. Endowment's shard number is supposedly 5, which might explain with immortality comes at the fifth heightening and why some of the really advanced powers come at the tenth heightening, which is a factor of five, but there are clearly more than five heightenings, so what's the max? My theory is that it's either 16 because of cosmere significance, or fifteen because of the five significance. What do you think? (Also, I have no idea if someone else made this theory, if they did, sorry.)

[Koloss17]

I think 16 heightenings checks out! I like that idea! 
 

maybe the heightened heightenings help senses....

 

but if we’re going with multiple of 5, 10 is already a multiple of 5.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Koloss17

[Quantus]

Per WOB, not all shards have associated numbers.  In the case of Endowment, Five is thematically recurring with Nalthis (five scholars, etc) but there havent been any actual magical examples of it yet.  Personally, I dont think there is any actual limit to Heightenings/breaths, just a semi-linear (or exponential, etc) progression of Investments all the way up to Sliver, and eventually/potentially to actual Vessel.  

[Aspiring Writer]

10 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

I think 16 heightenings checks out! I like that idea! 
 

maybe the heightened heightenings help senses....

 

but if we’re going with multiple of 5, 10 is already a multiple of 5.

Doesn't mean there can't be more, and 10 is honor's number sooo...

10 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Per WOB, not all shards have associated numbers.  In the case of Endowment, Five is thematically recurring with Nalthis (five scholars, etc) but there havent been any actual magical examples of it yet.  Personally, I dont think there is any actual limit to Heightenings/breaths, just a semi-linear (or exponential, etc) progression of Investments all the way up to Sliver, and eventually/potentially to actual Vessel.  

Yes, but what if the final heightening you can reach before becoming a silver is 15 or 16? My theory still works then.

 

[Weltall]

Just because 16 is significant to the broader Cosmere doesn't mean it's magically significant everywhere. The only world where we know it actually is would be the one where the resident Shards had (by implication) a good deal more control over the magic systems than elsewhere. So while there may well be tangible effects to having significantly more Breath than the Tenth Heightening's loose threshold indicates, that doesn't mean there are necessarily fifteen or sixteen discrete levels.

That said, the Ars Arcanum does state that there are rumors of unknown powers associated with the Tenth Heightening. This could mean the Tenth is the limit and these extra powers (if real) are associated with it or it could be there are Heightenings beyond and that's where these rumors come from. A rough calculation based on the initial size of Peacegiver's Treasure and the number of weeks that have passed since it was bestowed suggests the initial quantity of approximately fifty thousand Breaths has grown by close to another sixteen thousand since, if the God Kings always receive exactly one extra Breath per week. Susebron however says that some weeks he receives three or four so that number could be decently higher depending on how often the God Kings get that many. There's probably some benefits to all of that excess and the rumors Khriss has heard of additional powers might (if true) be related to how much extra Breath the God Kings have, a fact that Khriss presumably doesn't know about.

[Aspiring Writer]

16 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Just because 16 is significant to the broader Cosmere doesn't mean it's magically significant everywhere. The only world where we know it actually is would be the one where the resident Shards had (by implication) a good deal more control over the magic systems than elsewhere. So while there may well be tangible effects to having significantly more Breath than the Tenth Heightening's loose threshold indicates, that doesn't mean there are necessarily fifteen or sixteen discrete levels.

That said, the Ars Arcanum does state that there are rumors of unknown powers associated with the Tenth Heightening. This could mean the Tenth is the limit and these extra powers (if real) are associated with it or it could be there are Heightenings beyond and that's where these rumors come from. A rough calculation based on the initial size of Peacegiver's Treasure and the number of weeks that have passed since it was bestowed suggests the initial quantity of approximately fifty thousand Breaths has grown by close to another sixteen thousand since, if the God Kings always receive exactly one extra Breath per week. Susebron however says that some weeks he receives three or four so that number could be decently higher depending on how often the God Kings get that many. There's probably some benefits to all of that excess and the rumors Khriss has heard of additional powers might (if true) be related to how much extra Breath the God Kings have, a fact that Khriss presumably doesn't know about.

Is it canon that he is at the tenth heightening still, or could the god-kings have surpassed that at one point?

[Weltall]

There are only ten canon Heightenings, if there were officially more we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Aspiring Writer]

26 minutes ago, Weltall said:

There are only ten canon Heightenings, if there were officially more we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Can't someone from the first heightening identify someone's heightening?

[Weltall]

Not exactly, Aura Recognition per the Ars Arcanum:

Quote

The First Heightening grants a person the ability to see the Breath auras of others instinctively. This allows them to judge roughly how many Breaths the person contains and the general health of that Breath.

Vivenna can instinctively compare auras to her own experience and has an idea what that means but she knows the specific capabilities of each Heightening through education, so she's basically looking at an approximation of how many Breaths so and so has and working out what that means in Heightening terms; she's not getting all of that directly from the auras.

When she looks at Susebron, her aura recognition basically pings his Breath store as 'off the charts'. It really tells us nothing either way.

[Quantus]

11 hours ago, Weltall said:

Not exactly, Aura Recognition per the Ars Arcanum:

Vivenna can instinctively compare auras to her own experience and has an idea what that means but she knows the specific capabilities of each Heightening through education, so she's basically looking at an approximation of how many Breaths so and so has and working out what that means in Heightening terms; she's not getting all of that directly from the auras.

When she looks at Susebron, her aura recognition basically pings his Breath store as 'off the charts'. It really tells us nothing either way.

Agreed, though I suspect that will ultimately be a matter of exposure/experience.  For now it's the only known cache of that size, but other countries may have similar Breath-stores, to the point where a hypothetical version of the UN could give us a gathering of several God-Rulers.  Even if they dont have specifically different abilities (enough to warrant declaiming a new Heightening), they might be discernable relative to each other, even to low-level senses.  Im picturing aura's that fight for dominance int he meeting room, and people tracking their movements through the compound by the various beacons of powers shouting at everyone's senses.  

[Adolinalsium]

I think I like there being sixteen heightenings but that no one could reach that because the governor tend to be double or more than double so you would need an insane amount like a hundred thousand for the weekend until for a sixteenth you would need millions so without I shard I don't think anyone could feasibly reach the sixteenth heightenings or even close.

But I do like the theory I haven't thought of it but now they you brought it up it feels obvious. 

[Friendshipspren]

On 10/22/2020 at 2:25 AM, Ookla the Crimson King said:

Just because 16 is significant to the broader Cosmere doesn't mean it's magically significant everywhere. The only world where we know it actually is would be the one where the resident Shards had (by implication) a good deal more control over the magic systems than elsewhere. So while there may well be tangible effects to having significantly more Breath than the Tenth Heightening's loose threshold indicates, that doesn't mean there are necessarily fifteen or sixteen discrete levels.

That said, the Ars Arcanum does state that there are rumors of unknown powers associated with the Tenth Heightening. This could mean the Tenth is the limit and these extra powers (if real) are associated with it or it could be there are Heightenings beyond and that's where these rumors come from. A rough calculation based on the initial size of Peacegiver's Treasure and the number of weeks that have passed since it was bestowed suggests the initial quantity of approximately fifty thousand Breaths has grown by close to another sixteen thousand since, if the God Kings always receive exactly one extra Breath per week. Susebron however says that some weeks he receives three or four so that number could be decently higher depending on how often the God Kings get that many. There's probably some benefits to all of that excess and the rumors Khriss has heard of additional powers might (if true) be related to how much extra Breath the God Kings have, a fact that Khriss presumably doesn't know about.

Wait . I thought the auras were consumed . Much like colour or metal . J Thought they would be lost to the SR after providing spiritual sustenance or such 

[Weltall]

5 hours ago, Friendshipspren said:

Wait . I thought the auras were consumed . Much like colour or metal . J Thought they would be lost to the SR after providing spiritual sustenance or such 

They are... except that it's very clearly stated that Susebron gets more than one Breath per week. This means that the God Kings' store of Breath has grown over time.

Quote

“No,” Siri said. “Bluefingers told me you’d been collecting them for centuries. That each God King gets two Breaths a week, instead of one, building up his reserves.”

Actually, he admitted, some weeks I get three or four.

“But you only need one a week to survive.”

Yes.

Warbreaker Chapter 29

 

[Friendshipspren]

@Weltall ah kk. Thanks . I had forgotten that