RoW Chapter 16 Discussion

[+Harrycrapper]

15 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

I also think that tossing Nergaoul in the ocean is a good call. Like keeping the gem somewhere where humans can get to it is just begging for it to get broken someday, so keep it out of everyone's hands forever. And, in a more meta sense, getting rid of the Thrill was the entire emotional climax of OB; undoing that would just be undermining OB for no reason other than to throw antagonist the heroes have already beaten at them all over again. I honestly not think that that gem's getting found. 

I definitely don't think that the gemstone will make a return in RoW or book 5, but I could see it coming back in the back half with someone having found it in the 10 year gap. I think it's without question that they will in some way regret just throwing it into the ocean at the same time I don't see any better options they have at this time. It can't be taken off world, so it's stuck on Roshar. It's not like they can just bury it in the ground, that's even worse than the ocean. They know they can't just hold onto stuff like that, the stolen Honorblade proved that. The only thing that I can think of that it doesn't look like they did is put it in an aluminum lined container and then throw it in the ocean, that would make it much harder to locate. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

We know from Navani's Ted talks about fabrials that she is aware of the Investiture shielding properties of Aluminum, and that she has used Aluminum in the construction of the Fourth Bridge.

Like @Harrycrapper and @Bzhydack mentioned, the logical solution is to use Aluminum to hide the Kings Drop.

Place the Kings Drop in the center of a 6' cube of tallow, soulcast the tallow into aluminum, take the 6x6x6 cube of Aluminum to an undisclosed location as far out as possible in the Endless Ocean and drop the encased Kings Drop. Then listen to the Thrill is gone by BB King. Simple.

If the aluminum cube is housed in a conveyance that could support its weight, a Dalinar supercharged Windrunner following the trailing edge of a Highstorm could get it so far out into the ocean as to effectively remove all chance of recovery.

*Edit*

Just did some calculations, the density of Aluminum is 2.7 g/cm^3, so a 6' cube of Aluminum would have a mass of 16,514 kg. Which, accounting for Roshar's reduced gravity at .7 earth gravity, would weigh 12.74 tons. Probably would be best to hedge your bets and tweak Odium's nose a bit and make the Aluminum cube 9x9x9 feet, giving a Rosharan adjusted weight of 43 tons. That wouldn't be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[Gilphon]

19 minutes ago, Karger said:

Security is a balance between strength and secrecy.  You generally can't have both at once so people usually opt for one or the other.  I personally think having the "radiant council" send Kaladin to dump it at super specific coordinates and only sharing this info with successors would work quite well.

I am of the opinion that this is a context where strength is irrelevant, because it's not just about keeping it safe in the current war, it's about keeping it safe from all future generations. No amount of strength could ever be enough. So the rationale decision is to go all in on secrecy; if there's only one person who knows where it is, that's one person too many. 

[GriffinMaze]

She glanced to him, then—instead of being provoked—seemed to relax. Adolin had that effect on people.

 

Adolin the Allomancer (Soother)?

[I Am A Fish]

5 minutes ago, GriffinMaze said:

She glanced to him, then—instead of being provoked—seemed to relax. Adolin had that effect on people.

 

Adolin the Allomancer (Soother)?

Yes! It makes perfect sense! All this time he was a scadrian worldhopper, who kidnapped the real Adolin, and uses soothing to...

Wait. What's the motive?

[Innovation]

7 minutes ago, GriffinMaze said:

She glanced to him, then—instead of being provoked—seemed to relax. Adolin had that effect on people.

 

Adolin the Allomancer (Soother)?

He could simply just have an effect on people that makes them relax and calm down. Not everyone is an Investiture-user in disguise. But you never know...  

[Gilphon]

So. If Nergaoul has an obvious manifestation in the Cognitive, that's a pretty big flaw with the plan. But I feel like they would've thought of that, and used an Oathgate to check what it looked like. So I would suggest that either it's been pulled entirely into the physical and doesn't have a manifestation in the Cognitive, or they did go with the Aluminium cube plan and found that that blocked the manifestation. 

[the_archduke]

Does aluminum have a cognitive aspect?  If so, couldn't you search for the aluminum?

[Karger]

20 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

I am of the opinion that this is a context where strength is irrelevant, because it's not just about keeping it safe in the current war, it's about keeping it safe from all future generations. No amount of strength could ever be enough. So the rationale decision is to go all in on secrecy; if there's only one person who knows where it is, that's one person too many. 

By the same token this cannot be kept secret forever.  The methods to locate the thrill may already exist at silverlight.  I am also worried that they might need the thrill later and not have it.  This approach maximizes secrecy and minimizes strength.  While this might seem attractive it has just as many problems as putting your stuff in an "impenetrable" fortress. 

2 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Does aluminum have a cognitive aspect?  If so, couldn't you search for the aluminum?

Yes to both questions although you would have to know to look for aluminium and even when you do there is a lot of AL on roshar generally.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Karger

[I Am A Fish]

1 minute ago, Gilphon said:

So. If Nergaoul has an obvious manifestation in the Cognitive, that's a pretty big flaw with the plan. But I feel like they would've thought of that, and used an Oathgate to check what it looked like. So I would suggest that either it's been pulled entirely into the physical and doesn't have a manifestation in the Cognitive, or they did go with the Aluminium cube plan and found that that blocked the manifestation. 

Until it's discussed further, we won't know.

All we can do is compose Keteks.

Nergaoul with fishies.; Hopefully aluminum also; Yes. Padlocks too. Padlocks? Yes.; Also aluminum hopefully; Fishies with Nergaoul.

[+Harrycrapper]

4 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

So. If Nergaoul has an obvious manifestation in the Cognitive, that's a pretty big flaw with the plan. But I feel like they would've thought of that, and used an Oathgate to check what it looked like. So I would suggest that either it's been pulled entirely into the physical and doesn't have a manifestation in the Cognitive, or they did go with the Aluminium cube plan and found that that blocked the manifestation. 

I said it earlier in the thread, throwing something in the ocean in the physical realm equates to burying it deep underground in the cognitive realm.

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, I Am A Fish said:

Until it's discussed further, we won't know.

All we can do is compose Keteks.

Secrets or strength?  Enough! opted for secrets.  Strong lies strong.  Secrets we opted enough?  Strength or secrets?

Edited October 20, 2020 by Karger

[Hearty_Joe]

29 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

We know from Navani's Ted talks about fabrials

Best comment in this topic.

[+Bzhydack]

19 minutes ago, GriffinMaze said:

Adolin the Allomancer (Soother)?

Adolin is Kandra! And has allomantic powers. So he is Harmony agent - will be in perfect place!

[Gilphon]

4 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Does aluminum have a cognitive aspect?  If so, couldn't you search for the aluminum?

I imagine that in theory it does, but there'd be nothing obvious to distinguish it from any other Bead in Shadesmar, so you'd have to search manually.  

[Rainier]

6 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

I said it earlier in the thread, throwing something in the ocean in the physical realm equates to burying it deep underground in the cognitive realm.

Is this true, or is it more like putting it on the top of a mountain?

[Zea mays]

1 hour ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Why does he still want to wear white?

Because Moash wears black. 
Moash and Szeth are styling themselves direct opposites.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Zea mays

[Ytsken]

4 hours ago, I Am A Fish said:

Is the coalition trying to be politically correct?

 

Most likely they feel it to be more correct since humans were revealed to have been the original voidbringers.

[I Am A Fish]

21 minutes ago, Zea mays said:

Because Moash wears black. 
Moash and Szeth are styling themselves direct opposites.

Okay.

I can't be the only one who really would like a Moash bridge four uniform. Say what you will about the man, he has an awesome wardrobe.

Black and silver? Yes please.

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, I Am A Fish said:

I can't be the only one who really would like a Moash bridge four uniform. Say what you will about the man, he has an awesome wardrobe.

Black and silver? Yes please.

I mean sure but he also comes off as an edgelord.  Yes I want an eeeeeeviil bridge four uniform.  Make it snazy though!  Chop chop human slave!

[I Am A Fish]

Just now, Karger said:

I mean sure but he also comes off as an edgelord.  Yes I want an eeeeeeviil bridge four uniform.  Make it snazy though!  Chop chop human slave!

Yes!

The buttons can be made of the skulls of lighteyes...

 

[Schneeente]

6 hours ago, Pattern said:

Sinking the perfect gem with Nergaoul in the ocean - facepalm...
What could possibly go wrong with that?

Honestly, when I head it my reaction was "very prudent". 

Where could they possibly have hidden that gem where it would be more secure than somewhere on the bottom of an ocean? 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Schneeente

[Aon Tia]

Nightblood makes Navani sick ! Knew that she was pure of heart! 
Gavinor! does this kid needs therapy ! After all that happened to him, big surprise. But get in line Gav behind Szeth! 
 

Mystery of dark sphere deepens. It is a perfect sphere! BaM, are you in there? 
 

@Schneeente The bottom of the ocean is a vast plain in the Cognitive realm. Is it retrievable?? I think so.

Edited October 20, 2020 by The Traveller

[Schneeente]

4 minutes ago, The Traveller said:

 

@Schneeente The bottom of the ocean is a vast plain in the Cognitive realm. Is it retrievable?? I think so.

But the ocean is gigantic. Even if somehow Odium knows that the gem was dropped somewhere into the ocean (I hope Dalinar gave it to Kaladin and even he wouldn't be able to find the place he dropped it down) that at least makes it incredibly tedious to re-find. 

What would the alternative be? Always in Dalinar's jacket pocket? Somewhere hidden in the tower? Somewhere hidden on the landmass of the continent? There is no foolproof spot, wherever you drop it, someone can retrieve it. And they didn't feel to take the chance to try to destroy it, a decision I can understand. 

[Rainier]

3 hours ago, robardin said:

Artificial creation of a perfect gemstone.

3 hours ago, Bliev said:

Maybe Mraize wants Restares because he knows how that gemstone was made. Maybe that's the secret they want to extract from him?

Probably not, but it would be cool.

Exactly! This is huge news. Who made it? How? Where? When? Is this something Gavilar found himself, or is it something he was given? Is this a relic from ages lost to time, or is this a new piece of technology developed within the lifetimes of our main characters? Did it come from Braize?

If you can create a perfect gemstone that can hold investiture, could you create one without the same Connection to one world? Could this be the perfect vessel for transporting Investiture off of Roshar, and making it available for export?

So many new questions, which means we're getting answers for old questions, soon.