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RoW Chapter 16 Discussion

237 posts in this topic

21 hours ago, Bliev said:

Don’t we have a WOB that states that gavilar was on the same bondsmith path as Dalinar? That would definitely set aside the idea that he was working for Odium, though I’ve considered the idea of a potential unmade influence.

 

The WoB in question:

Quote

Ted Herman (paraphrased)

Has Dalinar been on the Bondsmith path for a long time? How about Gavilar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes to both.

Brandon said that Gavilar had been on the Bondsmith path for longer than Dalinar has been.

Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

He had been "on the path" longer but that doesn't really say much about how far his Oaths progressed. I think that more or less spoke to how long they had been receiving visions. I believe Odium said that Dalinar was the first to actually Bond him since Honor was Shattered. 

Almost forgot to add that if you note the date this is as of WoR. 

Edited by Harrycrapper
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1 hour ago, Harrycrapper said:

The WoB in question:

He had been "on the path" longer but that doesn't really say much about how far his Oaths progressed. I think that more or less spoke to how long they had been receiving visions. I believe Odium said that Dalinar was the first to actually Bond him since Honor was Shattered. 

Almost forgot to add that if you note the date this is as of WoR. 

Gavilar must have been receiving the Visions very long time then. Didn’t Dalinar get his first 5.5 years ago in the wagon right before he went Into The Valley? That’s the impression I got from how he wakes up startled trying to fight. 
 

Quote

Dalinar came to himself, gasping, in the cabin of the storm wagon. Heart pounding, he spun about kicking over empty bottles as he raised his fists. 

What in the Almighty’s tenth name had that been. One moment he was in his bunk the next he had been .. well he didn’t rightly remember. - OB Ch. 114

It makes sense, we”ve seen spren jump to  bonding a sibling of the deceased right away with Timbre. 

The Visions stress reading “the book”. The first thing Dalinar does after Gavilar’s funeral is listen to Jasnah read the entire Way of Kings. That may have impressed the Stormfather. “Good enough!”

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38 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

It makes sense, we”ve seen spren jump to  bonding a sibling of the deceased right away with Timbre. 

We've actually seen that a bit more than you might realize. Most of the main Radiants had a sibling who was bonding/bonded a spren.

Kaladin:Tien

Dalinar:Gavilar 

Jasnah:Elhokar 

Venli:Eshonai

Shallan and Helaran kind of apply, but it's a bit of a murky situation. 

I can't remember if there was a WoB or just a lengthy discussion on the forums but if I recall correctly, this phenomenon is occurring because these people are Connected to each other and the spren seem to be attracted to people who are Connected to Radiants/proto-Radiants.

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3 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

I can't remember if there was a WoB or just a lengthy discussion on the forums but if I recall correctly, this phenomenon is occurring because these people are Connected to each other and the spren seem to be attracted to people who are Connected to Radiants/proto-Radiants.

There is a WoB.

Quote

JoyBlu

Both Tien and Kaladin are Radiant, you talked about how that wasn't hereditary, and how that was more because of where they were with association. Was it because they were associated with the same person, or the same place?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Connection influences spren.

JoyBlu

Right, but was the Connection to a person that they were around?

Brandon Sanderson

Connection to people.

JoyBlue

So not necessarily the place where they were?

Brandon Sanderson

Right.

Joyblu

Because my way of thinking it might be with the people is because, like with the Purelake on the Cognitive Realm there would be more spren hanging out there because that was more land, right; so if you spent more time on that you would have more spren around you. So if you're closer to more water, you're closer to more spren.

Brandon Sanderson

That is not an irrelevant observation.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

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13 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

We've actually seen that a bit more than you might realize. Most of the main Radiants had a sibling who was bonding/bonded a spren.

Kaladin:Tien

Dalinar:Gavilar 

Jasnah:Elhokar 

Venli:Eshonai

Shallan and Helaran kind of apply, but it's a bit of a murky situation. 

I can't remember if there was a WoB or just a lengthy discussion on the forums but if I recall correctly, this phenomenon is occurring because these people are Connected to each other and the spren seem to be attracted to people who are Connected to Radiants/proto-Radiants.

9 hours ago, Karger said:

There is a WoB.

 

Awesome! I hadn't seen that WoB, thank you! My takeaway from this is that it's only a matter of time before Navani bonds a spren. Both her kids, her first husband and her second husband had one. This would fit nicely with idea that ancient spren Gavilar found and couldn't bond being the Sibling. She bonds what Gavilar could not, take that jerk! 

Pair that idea with Brandon saying Navani is the surprise main character of RoW and the Fused big plan centering around Urithiru, a giant fabrial that works best with the Sibling active and Navani's expertise in fabrials. 

Everything's coming up Navani! 

1232680.jpg?b64lines=IEVWRVJZVEhJTkcnUyBDT01JTicgVVAKIE1JTEhPVVNFLg==

 

If The Sibling is in a gem or multiple gems at once and Navani will bond them, I'd argue that this increases the odds that The Sibling is Navani's spanreed critic. Stormfather is of storms, Nightwatcher is of plants / other lifeforms that grow (she lives in a mystery jungle, but her job is changing people who seek her out).  The Sibling being of stone or their special abilities revolve around stone fits the pattern. Perhaps, the Sibling can manipulate gems, making them seem to move on their own. 

I'm making big leaps and yeah the Sibling is sleeping forever, dead or "as good as a dead-eye". Yet "dead" spren aren't all that dead. Even physical realm beings have a tendency to not stay dead. How many people are present in the Roshar system that died and came back? Szeth, Zahel, Heralds, Fused. Jasnah seemed very dead, but was not at all dead. 

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2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

I'm making big leaps and yeah the Sibling is sleeping forever, dead or "as good as a dead-eye". Yet "dead" spren aren't all that dead

Mayalaran can barley speak her name during a perpendicularity but you think the sibling can send a letter without one?

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

Mayalaran can barley speak her name during a perpendicularity but you think the sibling can send a letter without one?

The sibling is a much larger and more powerful spren, so maybe.

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8 hours ago, Karger said:

Mayalaran can barley speak her name during a perpendicularity but you think the sibling can send a letter without one?

5 hours ago, Nameless said:

The sibling is a much larger and more powerful spren, so maybe.

That’s what I am banking on. The Bondsmith spren are on another level of power than the other radiant spren. Either they a broken Oath doesn’t do as much damage to them or the Siblings “withdrawal” just prior to the Recreance reduced the damage it took.

The Bondsmith spren also very different from other spren. We don’t know their “rules”. We didn’t know Jasnah could hold her breath indefinitely with Stormlight and take a knife through the heart, but she could. Always another secret.

EDIT: The Sibling isn't necessarily unbonded either. The Stormfather began bonding Dalinar without him knowing it for quite a while, Navani has been living in that tower the Sibling is so closely associated with for over a year. A bond could have begun. 

The Sibling seems the most unique spren since they are a They and don’t have a name. Or that name was Urithiru, but everyone calls the tower that so the Spren now goes by The Sibling. AKA elaborate sleight of hand by Brandon to not give away that the tower and the spren are basically the same.

RoW Ch. 14:

Quote

 “I will lead a team into the tower,” Raboniel said, "then secure control of the Sibling’s heart. ... I can learn much studying the gemstones at the Sibling’s heart"

"She wants the opportunity to experiment upon the Sibling…”

The Fused use Sibling almost interchangeably with the word tower. They aren't the same, but they're close. The gemstone pillar isn't the Sibling's heart, but it is inside the Sibling's heart. That whole giant fabrial that extends throughout Urithiru (the tower) might actually be the Sibling's form. The Sibling might be able to transform into gems. Sounds weird, but so is the Nightwatcher. 

That's not necessarily compatible with Gavilar finding a piece of the Sibling, unless the Sibling is in multiple places.

Edited by Child of Hodor
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I think Gavilar’s spheres contain the souls of Singers. Maybe Fused. For some reason I cannot specify I ascribe a size requirement to hold an Unmade. Like the King’s Drop or the ones mentioned in Shadesmar held by the money exchangers. Basically Gavilar’s spheres seem underwhelming to contain Unmade. But both instances are extremely interesting to me. 

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On 10/20/2020 at 10:18 PM, Karger said:

Then why the extra security sphere?  It is super valuable and rare but its use here only makes sense if you find what you have either valuable or dangerous.

I am confused by what you mean, what "security sphere"?

We know from Navani's prologue that Gavilar had half a dozen or so spheres. And we know from other prologues that he was practically giving them away, so it seems reasonable that they were neither valuable nor dangerous. He possibly created several such spheres as proof that he could teleport the box to Braize, and figured he could always make more.

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Brandon weighed in the whole 'dropping the Thrill in the Ocean' thing on reddit yesterday

Quote

therealkami

The main concern I saw with people on this chapter [Rhythm of War Chapter Sixteen] is the whole thing with where The Thrill ended up. Do we just lack info, or did Jasnah allow something that powerful to be simply tossed away and hope no one finds it?

Brandon Sanderson

Betas had some questions about this too, and my team keeps pushing me to put more info about it--but I haven't found the right place. It's more secure than you'd think.

My assumption is that what this means is that there's no easy way to find it in the Cognitive Realm. 

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27 minutes ago, Weux082690 said:

I am confused by what you mean, what "security sphere"?

A sphere that allows for extra security like Honor's drop because it is "perfect."  Gavilar would not waste such a sphere on something that did not require it.

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