What is the Cosmere's technologically most backward planet (not counting First of the Sun)

[+Oltux72]

We are asking often how advanced a planet is. But which planet is most primitive? Ruling out the gunpowder worlds leaves few candidates. Roshar has quite advanced science. So Nalthis or Sel? I cannot decide.

[Quantus]

Braize.  Hasnt even evolved Physical life yet... 

 

42 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

We are asking often how advanced a planet is. But which planet is most primitive? Ruling out the gunpowder worlds leaves few candidates. Roshar has quite advanced science. So Nalthis or Sel? I cannot decide.

Roshar has pretty advanced scientific Fabrial magic, but Im not actually sure their basic science understanding is all that strong.  They have a few basic Rules from the Heralds, but for the most part they dont understand them (they know to clean things, but not what germs are, etc). 

To be fair, the issue may be less about the knowledge and more about terrible public education leading to very silo'd knowledge held by a few.  

Edited October 19, 2020 by Quantus

[Gilphon]

People focus too much on gunpowder when deciding this sort of thing. It was discovered 1200 years ago in the real world, after all, and most Cosmere worlds appear to be further along than that. 

For my money, Threnody appears to be the most primitive- although we have no idea what things are actually like in the Homeland. But in the society we've seen, the Simple Rules are gonna do a lot to limit technological development- they represent severe restrictions on trade, travel, agriculture and fire. And if you're struggling with those, just about everything else is gonna be even harder. They should count themselves lucky that they haven't been blasted back to the stone age yet. 

This does appear to be a case of them having lost a lot of what they once had, rather than technology never having been developed at all, but that's possibly also the case for Sel, since Odium's visit there was probably pretty dramatic. As for Nalthis, well, they have relatively easy access to the rest of the Cosmere, and scientifically-minded worldhoppers meddling in politics, so they can't be that far behind. 

[Karger]

Mistborn era one is really incredibly primitive.  Bronze age China had more innovation and was much better organized.  We don't actually know what wealthy people on Threnody live like or what technologies they use.  They do have steel but they can't do combustion engines for obvious reasons.  Roshar actually is quite primitive in many respects.  Most people are farmers combined with fabrails that are only available to the wealthy who are actually not that impressive.  Of course magic messes with everything we do.  Using this internet definition.

Quote

Technology is defined as “purposeful intervention by design”, and technological practice as the activity through which technological outcomes are created and have impact in the world.

Technological outcomes are designed to enhance the capabilities of people and expand human possibilities. They change the made world in ways that have positive and/or negative impacts on the social and natural world.

Technology uses and produces technological knowledge. Technological communities endorse technological knowledge as valid when it is shown to support the successful development of technological outcomes.

All technology exists within a historical context, influenced by and influencing society and culture.

Technological practice is becoming increasingly interdisciplinary, relying more than ever on collaboration between the technology community and people from other disciplines.

I would actually say Roshar.  Mistrust of surgery, the mysticism surrounding fabrail science, and the lack of centers of learning that support new commercial sectors are all indicators.  Also most of their most impressive stuff is really salvaged and reworked from the Heralds and Radiants.  Rysn's babsk Vstim is at the absolute cutting edge but he is the only individual we have seen use fabrails for commercial reasons rather then personal comfort or warfare.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Karger

[Elend Venture]

On 10/19/2020 at 3:05 PM, Oltux72 said:

• optics: they have telescopic glasses
• barometric height formula: ardents can tell how high Urithiru is based on ambient pressure
• ecology: Shallan has a clear grasp of apex predators and their biology
• metallurgy: steel
• linguistics: they get how the Dawnchant was used
• architecture
• ceramics
• map making

• abundant steel
• factories
• extensives canals
• multistory buildings
• quite advanced medicine (Sazed was a good surgeon)
• limelights

A gas turbine or steam engine would work just fine provided you use an existing flame to light them.

Any place where that was not so before 1880? OK, Venice, but that is cheating.

Kharbranth? The ardentia? Azish science?

 

I hate to resurrect such an ancient thread, but I cannot help but add that for the setting, the medical field in general is quite advanced on Roshar. Surgeons such as Lirin have firm understandings of topics such as infection, bone setting, anaesthesia, sterilization of surgical equipment, etc. near all of which was not know in Europe until the mid nineteenth century.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Elend Venture

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

Roshar has pretty advanced scientific Fabrial magic, but Im not actually sure their basic science understanding is all that strong.  They have a few basic Rules from the Heralds, but for the most part they dont understand them (they know to clean things, but not what germs are, etc).

• optics: they have telescopic glasses
• barometric height formula: ardents can tell how high Urithiru is based on ambient pressure
• ecology: Shallan has a clear grasp of apex predators and their biology
• metallurgy: steel
• linguistics: they get how the Dawnchant was used
• architecture
• ceramics
• map making

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Mistborn era one is really incredibly primitive.  Bronze age China had more innovation and was much better organized. 

• abundant steel
• factories
• extensives canals
• multistory buildings
• quite advanced medicine (Sazed was a good surgeon)
• limelights

1 hour ago, Karger said:

We don't actually know what wealthy people on Threnody live like or what technologies they use.  They do have steel but they can't do combustion engines for obvious reasons.

A gas turbine or steam engine would work just fine provided you use an existing flame to light them.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

  Roshar actually is quite primitive in many respects.  Most people are farmers

Any place where that was not so before 1880? OK, Venice, but that is cheating.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

combined with fabrails that are only available to the wealthy who are actually not that impressive.  Of course magic messes with everything we do.  Using this internet definition.

I would actually say Roshar.  Mistrust of surgery, the mysticism surrounding fabrail science, and the lack of centers of learning

Kharbranth? The ardentia? Azish science?

 

[+Bzhydack]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Mistborn era one is really incredibly primitive.  Bronze age China had more innovation and was much better organized.  We don't actually know what wealthy people on Threnody live like or what technologies they use.  They do have steel but they can't do combustion engines for obvious reasons.  Roshar actually is quite primitive in many respects.  Most people are farmers combined with fabrails that are only available to the wealthy who are actually not that impressive.  Of course magic messes with everything we do.  Using this internet definition.

But this threat is about current moment, i.e. Second Era.

We still know too little. We dont know what happens on Sel now, remember, Elantris is few hundreds years ago. We dont know how much they advance. Also, we dont know practicly anything about Threnody, we know they have some technological advancement, but anything more.

But yes, Roshar seems to be not very advanced. Something like Age of Discovery maybe. With some twists, of course.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Bzhydack

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

• abundant steel
• factories
• extensives canals
• multistory buildings
• quite advanced medicine (Sazed was a good surgeon)
• limelights

I am going to cross off medicine as Sazed has access to an entire medical library in his head.  Normal people do not.  All of the other things you talk about are not the result of good technology but rather abundant slave labor and a lack of enemy nations.  Limelight just happens when you more or less burn the right type of rock.  It is actually even less impressive when you consider that the technology required to make it is electricity meaning TLR could easily have cut costs with even the smallest amount of R&D. 

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

A gas turbine or steam engine would work just fine provided you use an existing flame to light them.

We think.  Neither would be available at Silence's place anyway and we don't actually know neither exists.  I will concede we have not learned about Threnody much but they have tax laws which imply a lot of bureaucracy and we have yet to see what one of their major population centers looks like.  I kind of excluded them because we don't really know anything about them.

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Kharbranth? The ardentia? Azish science?

What about them?  All of these planets do have centers of learning(other then early mistborn).  In fact I think in 50 years or so Roshar could easily jump to first or second place.  It is just that research on Roshar is heavily concentrated and directed pretty narrowly and has lots of barriers.

[Honorless]

Probably Second, Third or Fourth of the Sun (depending on which other two have human life as per AU).

From our current knowledge, and we haven't seen all the planets in the now, Elantris and White Sand took place way in the past. We saw very little of Nalthis too.

Scadrial has made a lot of progress post Catacendre, trains, canals, ships, guns. Roshar has too, after Aharietiam but not nearly as much. Threnody has been stuck since the Evil struck, and we saw very little of that world, but it still had gunpowder. Nalthis and Sel, we saw too little of. Taldain is presumably ahead since last we saw, Darkside was already where Scadrial is in era 2 (and was before the Final Empire), so it's probably got the other planets beat. Ashyn seemed technologically ahead from the Silence Divine. Who knows where Yolen is.

Technically speaking Roshar is the furthest behind if we think of it in terms of conventional technological development but they do have fabrials! Southern Scadrial also has good magitech.

Hmm... we simply can't really answer this question at this point of time.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Honorless

[Zoey]

Hard to really say, it depends on a mix of when you look and where on the planet you look. But, I would definitely have to say Threnody, a lot of things on it get in the way of advancement. Shades and the Simple Rules. And the technology we see on it is far more basic than other worlds.