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The end of a desolation


Oltux72

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2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Why didn't the first Herald's death end a Desolation?

Leshwi says " They somehow found some way to shift the Oathpact to depend on a single member" indicating back in the day it did not work unless all of the Heralds were involved.

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I imagine they originally had to use the Highstorms? And that the joining process  worked similar to how it worked when we saw Eshonai join with the void Spren. 
 

 

the way I picture it. All 10 Heralds would return. They would train the Knights and Humans and when they were sufficiently accomplished, the Heralds would “Suicide” (magically choose to die) and would be returned to Braize. This would trigger the lock. Any Fused they had killed would remain there, any not killed would be locked once they returned. Towards the Last desolation when it was happening too quickly for training to happen satisfactorily, Ishar modified the Oathpact so that when 1 Herald died the lock started. During the WoK prelude I have to assume they considered this the final battle and once Taln died they killed off the Fused and then announced the war was over and then went into hiding.  

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On 10/6/2020 at 2:03 PM, Karger said:

Leshwi says " They somehow found some way to shift the Oathpact to depend on a single member" indicating back in the day it did not work unless all of the Heralds were involved.

If it's accurate that the Heralds had to actively shift the locking mechanism to Taln, then it makes Ishar and Nale seem more reasonable in their concern over surgebinders "undermining certain ... measures we took" (OB Ch. 106), which could trigger a desolation. 

It also makes them seem worse to me. In essence it's the same, they put it all on Taln, but imagining them standing around and being like "Hey, maybe, maybe we don't have to go back and it will be ok?" is better to me than them actively working together to change the Oathpact once they noticed only Taln died. 

I do feel bad that, according to Leshwi, the surviving Heralds would travel to Braize by killing themselves. Again in essence it's not that different from being violently killed in battle then horribly tortured on Braize, but to be survive and have to kill yourself so you can be tortured on Braize feels rougher emotionally. 

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35 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

It also makes them seem worse to me. In essence it's the same, they put it all on Taln, but imagining them standing around and being like "Hey, maybe, maybe we don't have to go back and it will be ok?" is better to me than them actively working together to change the Oathpact once they noticed only Taln died. 

But it must not have been an active plan by the other 9.  If something was done to the Oathpact, then Kalak wasn't aware of it until he met with Jezrien and the other 7 had already abandoned their Honorblades.  Is it safe to presume that Ishar (as the creator of the Oathpact) was the one with the abilities need to put the full weight of the Oathpact on Taln?  And the others, in their pain and torment and fear, agreed with that plan?  Or perhaps even another proposed the idea?

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31 minutes ago, dgreene196 said:

Or perhaps even another proposed the idea?

Maybe Taln himself proposed this to Ishar? He wasnt angry for betrayal, he was happy for all this time he gave humanity. Maybe this was his idea - to stay on Braize and hold Odium, and other Heralds can direct humanity advancement?

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What I found interesting is that this made it seem like the Heralds return and prepare the humans. Teaching them, giving them technology. This technology you wouldn't expect to be lost when the heralds are there. So why is it, that there is a regression after the war is won? I know lots of people die. But if the heralds teach and advance technology. Shouldn't they still have it after the war is won? But then, when the heralds return, they find the people using stone tools again. So what happens in between the desolations. Do the humans just kill each other? Or do the humans and singer keep fighting? Is it the unmade that continue to destroy civilization between desolations? Does anyone see the point I'm trying to make?

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1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Maybe Taln himself proposed this to Ishar? He wasnt angry for betrayal, he was happy for all this time he gave humanity. Maybe this was his idea - to stay on Braize and hold Odium, and other Heralds can direct humanity advancement?

That would only work with no other Herlads died during the final desolation which Taln had no way of knowing.

35 minutes ago, Master Silver said:

What I found interesting is that this made it seem like the Heralds return and prepare the humans. Teaching them, giving them technology. This technology you wouldn't expect to be lost when the heralds are there. So why is it, that there is a regression after the war is won? I know lots of people die. But if the heralds teach and advance technology. Shouldn't they still have it after the war is won? But then, when the heralds return, they find the people using stone tools again. So what happens in between the desolations. Do the humans just kill each other? Or do the humans and singer keep fighting? Is it the unmade that continue to destroy civilization between desolations? Does anyone see the point I'm trying to make?

The Heralds don't stick around forever but at least some of the fused survive not to mention embittered parsh.  Finally the Heralds don't exactly teach advanced technology.  They most likely teach simple things that work(sanitation, crop rotation, ignoring soothsayers, having a good legal code).  If too few of your people are educated on an advanced topic(theoretical physics) and are having to deal with the aftermath of a war(few young people to do labor) they will not perpetuate that knowledge.

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That makes sense, and raises an idea. So humans/team honor wins. Remaining fuse lay the ground work for the next desolation. Assassinate key leaders and scholars. Spend the last of their strength to destroy as much knowledge as they can so it can't be passed on. Then in a generation or two, everyone the heralds taught will be dead, leaving the humans with less knowledge. Hence a regression. Thanks for helping me think through it :-)

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