Parshmen/ Singer Genocide in RoW

[Diomedes]

In regard of this new Chapter I`d like to present an updated version of an old theory of mine. 

“Extinction is the natural escalation of this war,” Leshwi whispered. “If you forget why you are fighting, then victory itself becomes the goal. The longer we fight, the more detached we become. Both from our own minds, and from our original Passions.” RoW ch. 14. This does not only apply to the Singers, but to the Humans  as well. I propose that this will lead a lot of Alethi to join  Odium. 

Part 1 Exterminating Parshmen

In Words of Radiance the first assumption of Bridge Four after they eavesdrop on a conversation of Shallan warning Adolin of the Singers is to assume she wants to exterminate them all.

Quote

My men said”, Kaladin continued, “that you seemed to want to get the parshmen murdered” WoR. Ch. 70. P. 837

 

In OB Jasnah makes this offhand comment:

Quote

“It`s either that, or we completely exterminate the Parshmen so that the enemy has no hosts” OB ch. 39 p. 41.

 

It`s in the sake of an argument, I know, but the extermination of all Singers is actually thinkable. If Parshmen genocide is thinkable for our heroes, then it might be more than that for a lot of Alethi. Throughout OB the Parshmen are referred to as “monsters”. What do you do with monsters? You slay them.

Additionally, the war against the Parshendi was ended by killing almost all Parshendi, why should the same trick not work on a grander scale?

 

Part 2 Rebellious Parshmen

The uprising of the Parshmen resembles a slave or peasant uprising. Slaves shove off the yoke of their masters and free themselves. You know how many slave/ peasant uprisings have been successful in western ancient and medieval history? Right, not a single one. They seized a lot of territory but were ultimately crushed, all of them. (Edit, well almost all of them, you get the point)

There are reasons for this. Slaves don`t have any fighting experience, masters have professional armies, that fought their entire lives. We see this at the battle of Thaylen. the Sadeas armies would have totally crushed the Singer-army, even with support from the Fused and the beasts. But aren´t the Fused these tactical geniuses? Yes they are, but there are only a few hundred of them and a lot of them have gone insane.

Essentially the Singers are normal people like you and me trying to fight a professional boxer. Even if we had the best coach and the best strategy ever (the Fused/ Voidspren), we could never beat the professional boxer. Even if we trained every hour of every day for a year- we just could not. 

But the Parshmen have the numbers, don`t they? If you compare current army sizes, yes. But, ultimately, there are way more Humans on Roshar and in Alethkar than Singers. All these Humans in Alethkhar need Parshmen guardians to look after them. So they cannot bring their full army force to battle because they need to garrison all those towns and cities in Alethkar. Remember the mantra Shardbearers don`t hold any territory? Well the same goes for the Fused. Plus the Alethi have a giant pool of possible recruits in Jah Keved. So no, the Singers don´t have the numbers.

This explains why the Nine in this Chapter are so shocked in face of the new Fabrials, because their situation really is almost desperate. 

 

Part 3 A war in Alethkar

 Odium does not want to exterminate the Humans he wants to rule them. Shalash said at the end of Ob that he always longed for Humans to join his side. A lot of human nations in the west have joined him already. Dalinar himself was supposed to be his champion with nine shadows who leads his armies. 

He is sure that he will win: Like, there is no possible way he could not. This is why he does not concede to a duell of champions. Therefore, he has to have a sure plan on how to turn a lot of Alethi to his side. How will he do it? By putting them in a situation  where they feel that it is necessary, just and feels satisfying to exterminate the Parshmen. I think Dalinar`s flashback chapters gave us a hint at what the current Alethi ethics of war are like. It will be worse, if the enemy happens to be not even human/ is a “monster”. Plus, what will they see, if they enter Alethkar? Abused Humans. This will surely persuade them that a war of extermination is justified.    

I imagine the debate on the conduct of the war will open a rift between House Kholin, Aladar, Sebarial and the others. Dalinar will urge upon an honorable conduct of war. The other Houses will see this first as a weak and soft hand approach, then as a betrayal. After a few decisive battles for the Alethi at the beginning of the war, the Fused will opt for a guerilla war strategy. By that time the other Houses will desert from House Kholin and follow a new leader. They will begin the extermination of all Parshmen and fight the Kholins. By that time they will be in Odium`s hands.

The Vorin church and Taravangian will actively support them. Aren`t the Parshmen literally the Voidbringers? Aren`t they supposed to kill them according to their religion? Aren´t Queen Jasnah and Dalinar Heretics? Aren`t the Knights Radiant traitors? What about that really powerful god that revealed himself and who says he loves us? He must be the Almighty right? 

This is how the Alethi as a nation will become the monsters they fought.

Part 4 Odium`s betrayal 

Odium  wants Humans to fight for him, just like it had been in ancient times, before Honor and the spren intervened. The Singers are just a tool to get Humans to his side and always have been. Odium will throw them away, once they will have outlived their usefulness and enslave those in Alethkar once again to their human masters. Venli and Leshwi will play a critical role in saving as many Singers as possible and turning them to Team Honor. That way the war will become a battle between Team Honor and Odium, Singers and Humans being equally on both sides. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Diomedes

[IcaroRibeiro]

Quality analysis and I think it's a real possibility  

[Kingsdaughter613]

3 hours ago, Diomedes said:

In regard of this new Chapter I`d like to present an updated version of an old theory of mine. 

“Extinction is the natural escalation of this war,” Leshwi whispered. “If you forget why you are fighting, then victory itself becomes the goal. The longer we fight, the more detached we become. Both from our own minds, and from our original Passions.” RoW ch. 14. This does not only apply to the Singers, but to the Humans  as well. I propose that this will lead a lot of Alethi to join  Odium. 

Part 1 Exterminating Parshmen

In Words of Radiance the first assumption of Bridge Four after they eavesdrop on a conversation of Shallan warning Adolin of the Singers is to assume she wants to exterminate them all.

 

In OB Jasnah makes this offhand comment:

 

It`s in the sake of an argument, I know, but the extermination of all Singers is actually thinkable. If Parshmen genocide is thinkable for our heroes, then it might be more than that for a lot of Alethi. Throughout OB the Parshmen are referred to as “monsters”. What do you do with monsters? You slay them.

Additionally, the war against the Parshendi was ended by killing almost all Parshendi, why should the same trick not work on a grander scale?

 

Part 2 Rebellious Parshmen

The uprising of the Parshmen resembles a slave or peasant uprising. Slaves shove off the yoke of their masters and free themselves. You know how many slave/ peasant uprisings have been successful in western ancient and medieval history? Right, not a single one. They seized a lot of territory but were ultimately crushed, all of them.

There are reasons for this. Slaves don`t have any fighting experience, masters have professional armies, that fought their entire lives. We see this at the battle of Thaylen. the Sadeas armies would have totally crushed the Singer-army, even with support from the Fused and the beasts. But aren´t the Fused these tactical geniuses? Yes they are, but there are only a few hundred of them and a lot of them have gone insane.

Essentially the Singers are normal people like you and me trying to fight a professional boxer. Even if we had the best coach and the best strategy ever (the Fused/ Voidspren), we could never beat the professional boxer. Even if we trained every hour of every day for a year- we just could not. 

But the Parshmen have the numbers, don`t they? If you compare current army sizes, yes. But, ultimately, there are way more Humans on Roshar and in Alethkar than Singers. All these Humans in Alethkhar need Parshmen guardians to look after them. So they cannot bring their full army force to battle because they need to garrison all those towns and cities in Alethkar. Remember the mantra Shardbearers don`t hold any territory? Well the same goes for the Fused. Plus the Alethi have a giant pool of possible recruits in Jah Keved. So no, the Singers don´t have the numbers.

This explains why the Nine in this Chapter are so shocked in face of the new Fabrials, because their situation really is almost desperate. 

 

Part 3 A war in Alethkar

 Odium does not want to exterminate the Humans he wants to rule them. Shalash said at the end of Ob that he always longed for Humans to join his side. A lot of human nations in the west have joined him already. Dalinar himself was supposed to be his champion with nine shadows who leads his armies. 

He is sure that he will win: Like, there is no possible way he could not. This is why he does not concede to a duell of champions. Therefore, he has to have a sure plan on how to turn a lot of Alethi to his side. How will he do it? By putting them in a situation  where they feel that it is necessary, just and feels satisfying to exterminate the Parshmen. I think Dalinar`s flashback chapters gave us a hint at what the current Alethi ethics of war are like. It will be worse, if the enemy happens to be not even human/ is a “monster”. Plus, what will they see, if they enter Alethkar? Abused Humans. This will surely persuade them that a war of extermination is justified.    

I imagine the debate on the conduct of the war will open a rift between House Kholin, Aladar, Sebarial and the others. Dalinar will urge upon an honorable conduct of war. The other Houses will see this first as a weak and soft hand approach, then as a betrayal. After a few decisive battles for the Alethi at the beginning of the war, the Fused will opt for a guerilla war strategy. By that time the other Houses will desert from House Kholin and follow a new leader. They will begin the extermination of all Parshmen and fight the Kholins. By that time they will be in Odium`s hands.

The Vorin church and Taravangian will actively support them. Aren`t the Parshmen literally the Voidbringers? Aren`t they supposed to kill them according to their religion? Aren´t Queen Jasnah and Dalinar Heretics? Aren`t the Knights Radiant traitors? What about that really powerful god that revealed himself and who says he loves us? He must be the Almighty right? 

This is how the Alethi as a nation will become the monsters they fought.

Part 4 Odium`s betrayal 

Odium  wants Humans to fight for him, just like it had been in ancient times, before Honor and the spren intervened. The Singers are just a tool to get Humans to his side and always have been. Odium will throw them away, once they will have outlived their usefulness and enslave those in Alethkar once again to their human masters. Venli and Leshwi will play a critical role in saving as many Singers as possible and turning them to Team Honor. That way the war will become a battle between Team Honor and Odium, Singers and Humans being equally on both sides. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution

There’s been at least one successful slave revolt... there have probably been others. Don’t assume based on commonly known history; it’s usually wrong.

 

So far the only ones we know are guilty of attempted genocide are the Fused, who killed 1 out of 10 humans with a violent-weapon. And 1 out of 100 Listeners too, which is probably why there were so few left. There are far more humans than Listeners, even with those losses and humans could better survive the bioweapon because of it.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Kingsdaughter613

[Diomedes]

8 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

There’s been at least one successful slave revolt... there have probably been others. Don’t assume based on commonly known history; it’s usually wrong.

Slaves outnumbered masters 10 to 1 on Haiti, you can`t compare that to Roshar, besides I was thinking about ancient and medieval history as stated. 

Most communities in the ancient world depended on slave labor, despite countless uprisings this social structure was not changed. The same goes for medieval feudal systems. Granted there are exceptions to the rule, so I was exagerrating to make my point. But generally speaking this social structure was upheld again and again by force. 

22 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

So far the only ones we know are guilty of attempted genocide are the Fused, who killed 1 out of 10 humans with a violent-weapon. And 1 out of 100 Listeners too, which is probably why there were so few left. There are far more humans than Listeners, even with those losses and humans could better survive the bioweapon because of it.

Well Dalinar did kill all the inhabitants of Rathalas. Given this ethics in war, why would a lot of Alethi restrain themselves from genocide, when they seek revenge for their abused families, friends and countrymen? 

[Kingsdaughter613]

23 minutes ago, Diomedes said:

Slaves outnumbered masters 10 to 1 on Haiti, you can`t compare that to Roshar, besides I was thinking about ancient and medieval history as stated. 

Most communities in the ancient world depended on slave labor, despite countless uprisings this social structure was not changed. The same goes for medieval feudal systems. Granted there are exceptions to the rule, so I was exagerrating to make my point. But generally speaking this social structure was upheld again and again by force. 

Well Dalinar did kill all the inhabitants of Rathalas. Given this ethics in war, why would a lot of Alethi restrain themselves from genocide, when they seek revenge for their abused families, friends and countrymen? 

There’s no saying they wouldn’t, though the Windrunners would likely fight any attempt. But right now the Fused seem more likely to attempt it, seeing as they just put someone who has already tried back in charge.

[Diomedes]

2 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

There’s no saying they wouldn’t, though the Windrunners would likely fight any attempt. But right now the Fused seem more likely to attempt it, seeing as they just put someone who has already tried back in charge.

Which in turn makes it pretty likely the Alethi would want to retaliate.

I found a good article that explains the sucess chances of a peasant revolt which were indeed close to zero. So my initial statement was correct.  https://www.quora.com/Have-there-ever-been-any-successful-peasant-revolts-in-Medieval-times

[Kingsdaughter613]

Just now, Diomedes said:

Which in turn makes it pretty likely the Alethi would want to retaliate.

I found a good article that explains the sucess chances of a peasant revolt which were indeed close to zero. So my initial statement was correct.  https://www.quora.com/Have-there-ever-been-any-successful-peasant-revolts-in-Medieval-times

You said none were successful, which is untrue. Not that ‘they are very rarely successful’ which is.

 

And speaking from the perspective of a people who has faced multiple attempts at genocide, we have zero interest in enacting revenge. All we’ve ever wanted was to live our lives, and keep our faith, in peace. Admittedly, revenge would mean wiping the entirety of Europe off the face of the Earth, so...

[Diomedes]

10 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

You said none were successful, which is untrue. Not that ‘they are very rarely successful’ which is.

Alas I admit it, I was being hyperbolical to make my point. 

 

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 minute ago, Diomedes said:

Alas I admit it, I was being hyperbolical to make my point. 

 

And I have a NVLD, so these things tend to stick for me. Also, I tend not to always get when people are exaggerating or being sarcastic. Comes with the territory.

[DiamondMind]

This would also be a really interesting way to end the first half of the series.The humans do win but Odium wins as well, so ultimately the heroes lose and have to fight back from nothing. Pretty bleak for Sanderson though.

[Schneeente]

Wow, I've read your analysis and the first comment that comes to mind: It's certainly possible and by no means implausible!

[Diomedes]

18 hours ago, DiamondMind said:

This would also be a really interesting way to end the first half of the series.The humans do win but Odium wins as well, so ultimately the heroes lose and have to fight back from nothing. Pretty bleak for Sanderson though.

Idk, This should be the arc of RoW which will leave our heroes betrayed and abondoned to fend off Odium alone, kinda like Taln for all those millenia.

Last book should feature them finding somehow a way to overcome those odds and to banish Odium for a couple of years. That would be anything but bleak!  

@IcaroRibeiro @Schneeente Thx for your kind words