RoW Chapter 14 Discussion

[+Bliev]

@PrinceGenocide Yes, I wonder if she took her cue from the Ashynite magic. Brandon said this on Reddit last week:

Quote

Suffice it to say that the disease magic is related to a symbiotic bond between spren-like investiture and microorganisms.

Which definitely could be something a connection-cohesion (I get those mixed up sometimes)-like Fused could manufacture as a plague, right?

[Friendshipspren]

1 minute ago, Bliev said:

@PrinceGenocide Yes, I wonder if she took her cue from the Ashynite magic. Brandon said this on Reddit last week:

Which definitely could be something a connection-cohesion (I get those mixed up sometimes)-like Fused could manufacture as a plague, right?

Heck i don't really know if Surges can be usee like that. But I'm betting on it being Progression. 

[IcaroRibeiro]

24 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Wait the human who might be of the Fourth Ideal . Jasnah ????

That's what I was thinking. The other candidate must be Shallan 

[+Bliev]

5 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Heck i don't really know if Surges can be usee like that. But I'm betting on it being Progression. 

That's a good idea.

(confession: i still have no idea what all the surges mean and i just gloss right over those parts lol. I am just like "oh, right, magic.") 

[+Child of Hodor]

8 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

That's what I was thinking. The other candidate must be Shallan 

Jasnah almost certainly does and hides it like she did with her other abilities given the geometric shapes Adolin sees fading around her in the climax of OB. Shallan probably did and made herself forget like with the other three. She probably has 5 and forgot. Why not at this point? 

[Shardsplinter]

I can't put in words how much this chapter excited me!!!!! So many interesting info!!!!!

- Logicspren bait for next chapter (now is gonna drive me crazy all week)

- Singer politics was amazing! Getting to see the culture, the Lore and the interactions firsthand Made for an excellent chapter. Not sure how practical the whole liders trapped in stone part is, but it sure impressed me a lot. So The Rool of Cool wins. And is also a good metaphor to how this ancient Fused have move beyond the simplicities of mortality like eating or moving.

- Also curiouse as to what The Land of the Second Advance really means.

- The Villains: Lezian is a crazy egotist, I don't like him but in the good way( Kal killing him without Powers is the highlight of this first part)

Raboniel seems super intriguing and powerful ( in the political term, but maybe in the literal one, too?)

Vyre, well, let me start by saying I'm normally on team Moash sucks and F him; but on the context of Fused politics his high position and general actitude seemed kind of cool( don't kill me Moash haters, I'm one of you) it's just interesting to see a human speak however he wants when inmortal Fused have to follow so much protocol. Is Vyre' rol on Odium's plan more important than we might think??

- Leshwi, note that I almost didn't include her on the Villains. I have to say, after this chapter I kind of like her a loooot. That moment when Venli thinks that Leshwi is trying to save Kal and doesn't even notest I stopped reading and said to myself " Kalashwi shippers, I hope I'm welcomed in your ranks" In a more serious note until now Leshwi actually caring( in a messed up enemy kind of way) for Kal seemed like some sort of stretch for me( so good eye on those who called it) but now it looks way more real. Leshwi please turn out to be good( which doesn't necessarily mean turn to team Radiant, just be the kind of charachter I can love)

- Venli, thank u for being a POV on this book looking forward to your arch.

TL;DR BEST CHAPTER EVER( until next week when we get the super Cosmere reveal and I end up jumping and running like a crazyman around the house.......again)

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Shardsplinter

[Rainier]

I'm going to be honest, this was the first chapter that I finished and really couldn't stand the fact that there's nothing more to read. I'm incorrigible, so I'll be back here next week, but man, November 17 is looking too far away. Forty-two days remaining, and it's finally become a burden instead of a pleasure.

At least I get to look forward to Vasher next week. Looking forward to that.

As for this chapter, the cast of characters around Venli grows, with Raboniel and the Pursuer as well-lit characters who will drive much of the story from the Fused perspective. 

Jasnah has definitely reached the Fourth Ideal, and she was almost certainly in her shardplate during the Battle of Thaylen Field. Dalinar, who knows, Brandon isn't being very forthright with us about his ideals. Shallan had spoken the fourth, but regressed, and maybe partitioned that part of her off into Radiant, given that we saw Shallan as Radiant in armor during the battle, too. 

Moash, on the other hand, is right to caution the Fused against Kaladin, although we'll see what kind of threat Kaladin can pose to their plans. Even though he's been moping and despondent, he still managed to kill Mr. Pursuer, and as a leader he's worth more than that. I expect the assault to happen after the Syl interlude, which I'm putting between part 1 and part 2. Part 1 looks like preparations for the assault on Urithiru and expedition to Lasting Integrity. Part 2 is the journey to LI and the attack on Urithiru. Part 3/4/5, who knows. 

[psc92]

Quote

As the Sibling is essentially a deadeye, I should be able to turn the tower’s defenses against its owners.”

Oh man, the word "essentially" is pulling massive amounts of weight in this sentence. I'm pretty sure that this means that the Sibling is not a deadeye. Using the word "essentially" here is intentional and most likely just means that while the Sibling is dormant and can't be bonded with, they are not technically a deadeye, just essentially one. If the Sibling was a deadeye, there would be no need to use the qualifier "essentially".

This tracks with what the Stormfather told Dalinar, that the Sibling is "slumbering", not dead. In addition to the fact that the Stormfather heavily implied that they could reawaken the Sibling, but he didn't want them to because he feared it would just lead to the humans causing more harm to the Sibling.

[ScadrianTank]

I think you people are overthinking that comment about a Radiant of the Fourth ideal. Given what Raboniel had heard during this meeting, her comment likely refers to Kaladin, who, according to Lezian, might have sworn that oath.

The epigraph is quite intriguing, however. At first, I thought that logicspren provide some level of automation or control over the function of a fabrial. If we assume that Oathgates operate using two spren because they fulfill two distinct functions, one oversees the mechanism that verifies the key and checks the destination while the other actually uses the Surge of Transportation, logicspren may act in a similar to the first one on a smaller scale. But since we haven't seen any fabrials that may require this level of complexity, other than the Oathgates themselves, it seems unlikely. 

[+robardin]

26 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Jasnah almost certainly does and hides it like she did with her other abilities given the geometric shapes Adolin sees fading around her in the climax of OB. Shallan probably did and made herself forget like with the other three. She probably has 5 and forgot. Why not at this point? 

Haha, I joked recently her Fourth Ideal will be accepting the truth about herself that she has been of the Fifth Ideal all along (since 11 years old), and that her Fifth Ideal "truth" was that for her sanity she needed to suppress it all and start over as a new Lightweaver, like a russian doll

The combination of tautology and semi-paradoxical recursion would send Pattern over the moon(s). And explain why Pattern is so sure Shallan will eventually kill him. "You do it every time you've reached the Fifth Ideal!"

Edited October 6, 2020 by robardin

[lookingglass]

13 minutes ago, psc92 said:

Oh man, the word "essentially" is pulling massive amounts of weight in this sentence. I'm pretty sure that this means that the Sibling is not a deadeye. Using the word "essentially" here is intentional and most likely just means that while the Sibling is dormant and can't be bonded with, they are not technically a deadeye, just essentially one. If the Sibling was a deadeye, there would be no need to use the qualifier "essentially".

This tracks with what the Stormfather told Dalinar, that the Sibling is "slumbering", not dead. In addition to the fact that the Stormfather heavily implied that they could reawaken the Sibling, but he didn't want them to because he feared it would just lead to the humans causing more harm to the Sibling.

I agree that the Sibling is not a deadeye. I think that we're all forgetting that when a knight is killed, their spren goes "slumbers" according to Syl and we know that there was only one Bondsmith during the Last Desolation. If the Sibling is really a Bondsmith spren, then maybe they're just waiting for the "right" person to bond to awaken? 

[Honorless]

Who else is thinking the Deadeyes might very well be revived in this book with how fast Stormlight plot moves despite it being supposed to cover 10 huge books!? Looks like we might also see the Sibling in this very book!  

[Singer]

I am really looking forward to seeing Venli's character growth. Timbre is like her little conscience, trying to keep her focused on more noble, radiant-esque attributes. 

Also, Kaladin. How many times he gonna have to kill that guy?? I know Kaladin can kick butt with or without storm light, but the pursuer is relentless. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Singer

[+robardin]

14 minutes ago, lookingglass said:

I agree that the Sibling is not a deadeye. I think that we're all forgetting that when a knight is killed, their spren goes "slumbers" according to Syl and we know that there was only one Bondsmith during the Last Desolation. If the Sibling is really a Bondsmith spren, then maybe they're just waiting for the "right" person to bond to awaken? 

I think there's more to the Sibling being "equivalent" to a deadeye.

What is a deadeye? Not just a spren whose Nahel bond was broken, and now walks around the CR while mindlessly tracking whoever's bonded their Physical remains... But a spren who had formed enough of a Nahel bond to manifest in the Physical Realm as a Shardblade, and a big chunk of whose Investiture is still coalesced in that way (as a Blade in the Physical Realm).

So what is this mechanism that appears to repel Fused from Urithiru, that "prevents them from attacking there"? Raboniel implies that is related to the "Surge supression fabrial" Kaladin encountered in Hearthstone, which development was inspired by "technology [she] discovered from within [Urithiru] itself thousands of years ago"?

It seems to be related to the physical remains of the Sibling, perhaps? Like, that was the Sibling's function while "alive" (or one of them - powering the terraces seems like it may also have been a thing of an "awake" Urithiru), but they are locked in that function while "slumbering" the way a deadeye is a Radiant spren locked into Blade form, sort of like a fabrial?

How did Raboniel get access to technology within Urithiru back then, anyway? Or did they just have a spy or traitor within the Radiant ranks?

And apparently, being of the Fourth Ideal might allow a Radiant to "push through" the suppression, as she has particular concerns to have the Elsecaller (Jasnah) and the Bondsmith (Dalinar) to be drawn away from Urithiru as part of her plan.

Edited October 6, 2020 by robardin

[Innovation]

I have a theory about how the Sibling was deadeyed, among other things, I made a few months ago, right here.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Innovation

[paperstones]

Sounds like 4th level Radiants have power levels that can’t be contained. I think this is foreshadowing Kal teaching it during a fight with the Pursuer.

Also, Navani will bond the Sibling after they infiltrate Urithiru. That will stop them from corrupting the tower. I think she will go all bad @ss and become a Bondsmith.

[Friendshipspren]

1 hour ago, Bliev said:

That's a good idea.

(confession: i still have no idea what all the surges mean and i just gloss right over those parts lol. I am just like "oh, right, magic.") 

I mean compared to mistborn it is a soft loose magic system. Doesn't help that we don't know much of it either 

@Honorless I think it's like real history where trade routes were found to India and America . And organisations leveraged massive power . 

So the Cosmere is in the age of discovery now I guess ???

 

[Schneeente]

I really LOVE the idea that the "decision makers" (the 9 fused) have to sacrifice so much to get into this position. 

 

That shows that they understand a lot about power and how it corrupts and also indicates that they were (at some point) rather advanced socially. (it certainly appears to be more advanced than Altethi culture in which basically the most powerful decides) 

 

The idea that you can only become of the the big decision makers (rulers of your fellow singers) if you sacrifice all your personal ambitions/luxuries to make sure that your decisions are actually based on what is best for your "country" and not for you personally.. ensures that certain types of politicians never reach those high offices.  

Edited October 6, 2020 by Schneeente

[IcaroRibeiro]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

Jasnah almost certainly does and hides it like she did with her other abilities given the geometric shapes Adolin sees fading around her in the climax of OB. Shallan probably did and made herself forget like with the other three. She probably has 5 and forgot. Why not at this point? 

The question about Jasnah is if she is so advanced in her words, why was her so unused to transportation (If I'm not mistaken, it was her first time fully elsecalling) in her removed chapter from Words of Radiance? Was that chapter non-canonical? Because it was most like a reaction of someone who was only in her second ideal, while se sworn third one right before come back to physical realm 

 

That's said, she choosing to not kill Renarin really looks like a fourth (or at least third) ideal scene

Edited October 6, 2020 by IcaroRibeiro

[+robardin]

12 minutes ago, Schneeente said:

I really LOVE the idea that the "decision makers" (the 9 fused) have to sacrifice so much to get into this position. 

That shows that they understand a lot about power and how it corrupts and also indicates that they were (at some point) rather advanced socially. 

The idea that you can only become of the the big decision makers (rulers of your fellow singers) if you sacrifice all your personal ambitions/luxuries to make sure that your decisions are actually based on what is best for your "country" and not for you personally.. ensures that certain types of politicians never reach those high offices.  

Also that Raboniel gave up being one of the Nine to be... What she is.

And what does that mean happened in all those past Desolations (or "Returns")? Somewhere each time, there was a chamber set up with the Nine encased in pillars, for the humans to have find and then to chisel out dead Fused bodies from at some point? Creepy, eh?

[Valigus]

I think the most interesting take away from this for me isn’t one others may think of but it’s kaladin and at least his perception in that he is unique, the fused seem to have never seen anyone like him before, they don’t even seem to consider that kaladin could be skilled enough to kill lezian without powers and find it more likely for him to have shardplate then be able to do that. That indicates A level of skill they have never seen before and coupled with leshwi’s fascination with kaladin makes me think something about him is unique in all the desolations some part of his skill and the way he has managed to redound a radiant order quite successfully without any help and the fact that even the fused seem to be aware of his growing legend.

 

also I desperately want a leshwi pov chapter, I really want to know what’s driving her fascination with kaladin

[+robardin]

3 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

The question about Jasnah is if she is so advanced in her words, why was her so unused to transportation (If I'm not mistaken, it was her first time fully elsecalling) in her removed chapter from Words of Radiance? Was that chapter non-canonical? Because it was most like a reaction of someone who was only in her second ideal, while se sworn third one right before come back to physical realm 

That's said, she choosing to not kill Renarin really looks like a fourth (or at least third) ideal scene

Eh, she could simply be much more natural at or more practiced with Soulcasting than Transportation, the way Shallan hasn't done much Soulcasting. Or it's one of those Surges that come first for the order - the way that Skybreakers can fly as squires with Gravitation after the Second Ideal, but evidently don't "get" to use Division until the Third Ideal.

Ooh. A thought just occurred to me. It is odd, isn't it, that Shallan hasn't done any Soulcasting except under extreme duress or as a kind of depth effect to her Lightweaving (literally only twice - transmuting a goblet to blood when frantic to get the "fabrial" to work, and the ship to fire then to save herself from the Ghostbloods on The Wind's Pleasure)?

Is that another aspect of her "blockage" of OG Shallan? Like maybe the past version of her that she's suppressing, did a lot more with Soulcasting...

[IcaroRibeiro]

Raboniel concern about Dalinar is understandable, as he is a Bondsmith and his powers include the ability to trap spren including the Unmade 

Her concern about Jasnah is yet to be understood, as much as Jasnah is by far the deadliest Soulcaster in the world (and most likely the only one Elsecaller in human army) I don't think soulcasting alone is what is troubling her.  She specified Jasnah oaths might be advanced enough to push through suppression fabrials. Is this in any way related to her order, or is just a assumption her oaths are indeed stronger (4th ideal)?

[Experience]

1 minute ago, robardin said:

Eh, she could simply be much more natural at or more practiced with Soulcasting than Transportation, the way Shallan hasn't done much Soulcasting. Or it's one of those Surges that come first for the order - the way that Skybreakers can fly as squires with Gravitation after the Second Ideal, but evidently don't "get" to use Division until the Third Ideal.

Ooh. A thought just occurred to me. It is odd, isn't it, that Shallan hasn't done any Soulcasting except under extreme duress or as a kind of depth effect to her Lightweaving (literally only twice - transmuting a goblet to blood when frantic to get the "fabrial" to work, and the ship to fire then to save herself from the Ghostbloods on The Wind's Pleasure)?

Is that another aspect of her "blockage" of OG Shallan? Like maybe the past version of her that she's suppressing, did a lot more with Soulcasting...

That's a cool idea. Now I want to go back and read her flashback chapters to see if there's any hidden evidence of that.

[Gilphon]

They sure seem to be very cautious of Jasnah, don't they? Like they seem to think she's as dangerous as Dalinar. To be fair, she was pretty badass as Thaylen City, but that can't be all there is too it; surely they haven't had to tip-toe around every Elsecaller to ever spring up. And, indeed, surely some of the Transformation Fused are better at Soulcasting than her.

And, of course, we have the need to divert her being emphasized just as they say that they don't think they can suppress Radiants at the Fourth Ideal, and that they only know of one human who's definitely at the Fourth Ideal. 

And they also seem very worried about Artefabrians. Though I think Raboniel is overselling the potential there; from what we'd know it'd be really hard for an Artefabrian to catch a Fused, and catching every Fused sounds nigh impossible, but I can understand why they're rattled. Two Unmade trapped, after all.