Ookla the Headmuncher

Best magic system combo

75 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

They have a limit to how fast they can burn their metals, otherwise Vin wouldn't have cared when duraluminum was discovered.

 I know.  what I meant is that we haven't seen anything to suggest that stormlight/surgebinding has a similar limit.  i.e. there isn't necessarily anything to suggest that Kaladin couldn't just drop all his stormlight on a single massive lashing even without something like duralumin to assist

 

40 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I think it might, dur-aluminum gives more power to allomancy I see no reason it wouldn't with Surgebinding.

does it though?  I thought it just force-burned your metals at a much higher rate than you could do naturally.  to put another way, using duralumin to burn another metal doesnt increase the total power you get out of that metal, it just compresses the amount of time it takes to get that power out.

Edited by Dunkum
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11 hours ago, Nameless said:

I mean, it would work, but it wouldn't do anything useful. Just an uncontrolled burst when you could do the same thing without that.

wait so what can you burn with duralumin? We have allomancy, stormlight, could you do the dor or breaths? 

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Mistborn Feruchemist. duh.

 

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I have no power dynamic reason for this combo, but if I had to choose two abilities I would def go with Elsecaller Zinc Compounding. Both abilities are the ones that either intrigue me the most in the case of zinc, or are my favorite Knight order in the case of Elsecallers. I do think there is some synergy however, Elsecallers are scholars and being able to compound near infinite amount of mental speed would be a huge, it would allow you to do ungodly amounts of thinking and putting things together in a short time. As well as I believe all of the other three abilities are powerful on their own even if I can't think of much synergy between Rioting and the Elsecaller abilities. 

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On 10/5/2020 at 10:26 PM, Dunkum said:

 I know.  what I meant is that we haven't seen anything to suggest that stormlight/surgebinding has a similar limit.  i.e. there isn't necessarily anything to suggest that Kaladin couldn't just drop all his stormlight on a single massive lashing even without something like duralumin to assist

I think we do, simply because they all have had access to infinite stormlight before and still show limits to how much they can channel in one go. 

Separately, in the case of Lashing specifically, they can do multiple lashings (which it seems the Fused cannot), and they can do partial lashings, but I think the max they can cram into a single one is the objects own mass/weight.  But it takes a certain amount of effort to create each one, making it impractical to slap dozens or hundreds on a single object (as often comes up in extreme surge ballistic conversations).  

On 10/5/2020 at 10:26 PM, Dunkum said:

 

does it though?  I thought it just force-burned your metals at a much higher rate than you could do naturally.  to put another way, using duralumin to burn another metal doesnt increase the total power you get out of that metal, it just compresses the amount of time it takes to get that power out.

That's correct, but it's confirmed to still work for Surgebinding.  Per WOB Duralumin does not add increased the power, it just makes it all happen at more or less the same time.  We know that when you Burn a metal, the metal is annihilated and is used to create a temporary Connection to Preservation, tuned by the type of metal for a specific Effect.  I believe Duralumin's power is simply to Expand and Reinforce Connections.  Since WOB has confirmed that it would affect Surgebinding, I suspect it does the same thing to the Nahel bond (or the lesser bond of the Honorblades  & Squires) and essentially gives them a temporarily increased Bond efficiency as if they had progressed to a higher Ideal than they actually have.  

 

Quote

 

Questioner

What happens if you burn duralumin while Compounding?

Brandon Sanderson

Duralumin while Compounding. So, what duralumin does is it burns out of all of your metal in one burst. So it doesn't necessarily gain you power, it makes it all happen at the same time. The same thing would happen.

Questioner

Could you turn into a baby?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, you could totally turn into a baby. That is within the power of using that, doing <health wrong>, yeah you could totally... You'd be really dangerous.

Questioner

But it wouldn't really do much?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh it would have explosive... it does things really fast. That's what it does. Yes you could achieve very powerful sudden effects through that. It'd be scary. Controlling it can be dangerous, regardless of which metal you use.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

 

Quote

 

Paladin Brewer

If a person had the power of Mistborn and other powers like Surges, could he use duralumin to power the Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

 

 

 

Quote

 

Dwarven_Hydra

Would a Duralumin Gnat Surgebinder be able to use duralumin to do a super Surge?

Brandon Sanderson

This (Duralumin+Surgebinding) would work.

General Signed Books 2019 (July 2, 2019)

 

 
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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

I think we do, simply because they all have had access to infinite stormlight before and still show limits to how much they can channel in one go. 

Separately, in the case of Lashing specifically, they can do multiple lashings (which it seems the Fused cannot), and they can do partial lashings, but I think the max they can cram into a single one is the objects own mass/weight.  But it takes a certain amount of effort to create each one, making it impractical to slap dozens or hundreds on a single object (as often comes up in extreme surge ballistic conversations).  

maybe.  i'd have to think about it some, but the text does tend to support this - kaladin during the big shard duel seems to imply that multiple lashings really are multiple separate instances stacked on each other, rather than one singlew big lashing.  but is that because he cant do a big lashing, or because he thinks of the lashing as being 1g?

but that is also only one example.  its hard to imagine that soulcasting or lightweaving works the same way.

and i agree that duralumin + surgebinding would work, just a question of whether the effect could be done with surgebinding alone or not.

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3 hours ago, Dunkum said:

maybe.  i'd have to think about it some, but the text does tend to support this - kaladin during the big shard duel seems to imply that multiple lashings really are multiple separate instances stacked on each other, rather than one singlew big lashing.  but is that because he cant do a big lashing, or because he thinks of the lashing as being 1g?

Lets just say I strongly suspect there will be additional examples in the upcoming novel.  Perhaps even in the first few chapters...

But that wouldnt be something we can discuss here, were it to be the case.  

3 hours ago, Dunkum said:

but that is also only one example.  its hard to imagine that soulcasting or lightweaving works the same way.

 

For Lightweaving, I would think the difference between lots of small/discrete Illusions and one large one could be measured by the size of the Gem it could be anchored to.  She can change her garb in a small gem's worth of Stormlight, but if she wanted to hide an entire building it would use more Stormlight and so presumably require a larger anchor gem.

For Soulcasting, each instance of the surge changes a single discrete Object, (ie one stone at a time, regardless of size).  And we know that there is a maxiumum size a given Soulcaster can effect, and it takes skill and/or Savantism to affect only a piece of one.  Size then could be measured by how large of a single object you could effect.  

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28 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Lets just say I strongly suspect there will be additional examples in the upcoming novel.  Perhaps even in the first few chapters...

But that wouldnt be something we can discuss here, were it to be the case.  

 

For Lightweaving, I would think the difference between lots of small/discrete Illusions and one large one could be measured by the size of the Gem it could be anchored to.  She can change her garb in a small gem's worth of Stormlight, but if she wanted to hide an entire building it would use more Stormlight and so presumably require a larger anchor gem.

For Soulcasting, each instance of the surge changes a single discrete Object, (ie one stone at a time, regardless of size).  And we know that there is a maxiumum size a given Soulcaster can effect, and it takes skill and/or Savantism to affect only a piece of one.  Size then could be measured by how large of a single object you could effect.  

so duralumin + soulcasting would let you affect larger things than you could with soulcasting alone, in that example?

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21 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

so duralumin + soulcasting would let you affect larger things than you could with soulcasting alone, in that example?

That's what Im thinking.  The idea being that Duralumin does not provide a new source of Investiture, it just Expands and/or Augments the existing channels of power so that you can pour more into a given working than otherwise would be possible.  

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I don’t know now if this has been mentioned on this thread, but I would go with Division and duralumin. Division lets you break bonds between Atoms (or Axi, as the people, of the Cosmere call them). But with duralumin I could break the atoms themselves... could be used for infinite power or, with a more violent agenda, basically bomb anything. 

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7 minutes ago, Innovation said:

I don’t know now if this has been mentioned on this thread, but I would go with Division and duralumin. Division lets you break bonds between Atoms (or Axi, as the people, of the Cosmere call them). But with duralumin I could break the atoms themselves... could be used for infinite power or, with a more violent agenda, basically bomb anything. 

But you would be in the blast radius, if not the fireball itself.

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2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

But you would be in the blast radius, if not the fireball itself.

I could heal with Stormlight. And we don’t know if division is ranged or not. 

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3 minutes ago, Innovation said:

I could heal with Stormlight. And we don’t know if division is ranged or not. 

Heal. From instant vaporization? I think that might be beyond what even progression would get you.

Ranged division might be possible.

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4 hours ago, Innovation said:

I don’t know now if this has been mentioned on this thread, but I would go with Division and duralumin. Division lets you break bonds between Atoms (or Axi, as the people, of the Cosmere call them). But with duralumin I could break the atoms themselves... could be used for infinite power or, with a more violent agenda, basically bomb anything. 

Probably not though.  nucelar fission (breaking the atoms) and breaking atomic bonds are, physically, completely different processes.  they arent particularly related to each other, and are moderated by different forces.  It isn't impossible that the surge of division handles both, but I wouldn't bet on it, either.

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1 hour ago, Dunkum said:

Probably not though.  nucelar fission (breaking the atoms) and breaking atomic bonds are, physically, completely different processes.  they arent particularly related to each other, and are moderated by different forces.  It isn't impossible that the surge of division handles both, but I wouldn't bet on it, either.

Probably true. However I will hold on to the hope that duralumin-Division can break atoms.  

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On 10/5/2020 at 6:46 PM, Frustration said:

I think it might, dur-aluminum gives more power to allomancy I see no reason it wouldn't with Surgebinding.

Yeah, it would have an effect, and for transformation and transportation, I can see it being really useful. I think with more physical powers life lashings it gets a little less useful. At least for radients.

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On 10/9/2020 at 9:58 PM, Innovation said:

Probably true. However I will hold on to the hope that duralumin-Division can break atoms.  

You may be a little disappointed.

Quote

Questioner
The Division Surge: does it actually split atoms or does it split the bonds of molecules?

Brandon Sanderson
It splits the bonds of molecules, it does not split atoms. I have done an atom splitting magic originally in Dragonsteel. And wooow it was overpowered. So really, this is fiddling... You'll see what it does when I use it, but we'll not be splitting atoms. We're not creating nuclear reactio... or fission, so.


Snipeexe
Could you create a nuclear bomb using the Surge of Division?

Brandon Sanderson
Not Division, but there are cosmere powers that are built around splitting atoms.

Source One, Two.

As for the topic itself, I'd say Elantrian Awakener. Given enough available power, what you can do is only limited by your own imagination.

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25 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

You may be a little disappointed.

*dies inside*

But if there are atom-splitting Cosmere powers...

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I love immortality so Gold compounding of the Fifth Heightening . 

Also SteelDancing. Compounded steel with abrasion and progression

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6 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

I love immortality so Gold compounding of the Fifth Heightening .

This is more interesting/depthful than it might seem at first glance

Storing health makes you sick... but the 5th heightening prevents that.

So you can just store health when you're relaxing at HUGE rates that would normally make people miserable, and then tap your enormous reserves to heal the physical injuries that the 5th heightening can't manage on its own.

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51 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

This is more interesting/depthful than it might seem at first glance

Storing health makes you sick... but the 5th heightening prevents that.

So you can just store health when you're relaxing at HUGE rates that would normally make people miserable, and then tap your enormous reserves to heal the physical injuries that the 5th heightening can't manage on its own.

i mean, if you are already compounding, then the ability to store more health doesn't really make much difference

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1 minute ago, Dunkum said:

i mean, if you are already compounding, then the ability to store more health doesn't really make much difference

Ok yeah i forgot but this means you don't even NEED compounding.

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Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

Ok yeah i forgot but this means you don't even NEED compounding.

gold ferruchemy + fifth heightening would probably allow you to store health a lot faster, yes.  probably more than enough for almost any normal scenario most people would encounter.  not on the level of compounding, but compounding health is really only necessary if you want to make a career out of doing oterhwise lethal things like walking into burning buildings without potective gear.  for day to day life, even regular gold ferruchemy is probably plenty most of the time.

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1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

This is more interesting/depthful than it might seem at first glance

Storing health makes you sick... but the 5th heightening prevents that.

So you can just store health when you're relaxing at HUGE rates that would normally make people miserable, and then tap your enormous reserves to heal the physical injuries that the 5th heightening can't manage on its own.

Holy u don't even need compounding for that then. It wouldn't make you as resilient as miles but heck I don't really plan on living a dangerous life. 

Noice 

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