Bodily functions of the Returned

[+Oltux72]

They speak, so they must breathe. I think we can assume that they eat and drink for fun. But in doing so, are they triggering the inevitable outcome of these activities? The added material can't just vanish, can it? So is it normally digested? Do they have a gall bladder?
And more delicately, do female Returned menstruate? If they do, whence'll come the lost mass if they can't eat?

[Dancer]

The Returned function just like any normal human would. The only difference is that every week they need Investiture to stay living and they can't procreate. They can suppress their divine breath to become more normal i.e no light bending aura or any heightenings but that's about it.   

[HSuperLee]

These are really excellent questions, some of which we may need to ask Sanderson. I would imagine that most metabolic functions are handled by investiture. How that interfaces with ATP and other energy carrying molecules in terms of continuing the normal biological functions of the body, I have no idea and the answer might ultimately just be "magic." But it seems to me that mass isn't really a big deal for Returned considering they can shift theirs with practice. Maybe they have some ability to pull it from the SR as investiture then convert it to mass and then reverse the process. Maybe that's how their metabolism works and they're constantly turning investiture into chemicals to continue their biological functions without needing other inputs. For all we know, the divine breath is really a kind of portal to the SR that allows them to push and pull investiture through in the first place. That might actually make the most sense, as so long as they have it they're connected to their spiritual ideal and when they give it up they're briefly creating a surge of Connection to the ideal of another person along with the investiture to allow that ideal to manifest. But its clear that while the divine breath skips over some biological functions, at some point they do take effect. Otherwise they wouldn't need air and thus wouldn't be able to bleed to death. As for menstruation, I imagine they probably don't but could if they knew how (that's weird to say but I think its correct) considering that returned are considered sterile unless they have special knowledge that allows it.

[Quantus]

This is the closest thing to a datapoint I could find, which states that in the case of sleep specifically, it's needed for biological Memory Management.  Beyond that we know that in general the physical body/forms of the Returned are way more affected by their cognitive state than say, your average Spiritual Healing.  We know are capable of reproduction but that it takes some "trick" that most dont figure out. I suspect that it's another cultural thing like the super-height, that they mostly assume Gods just dont do messy natural childbirth. 

All that to say there is a line somewhere with Returned where bodily function takes over from the cognitive-skewed magic, but I strongly suspect the line will vary slightly between Returned.

 

Quote

 

Argent (paraphrased)

Why do the Returned need to sleep?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Sleep is necessary for many reasons - different from the reasons we need food and water, for example. One of those reasons (for sleep) is memory storage. Like humans, Returned need to sleep so their (important) short-term memories get moved to long-term storage.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

These are really excellent questions, some of which we may need to ask Sanderson. I would imagine that most metabolic functions are handled by investiture. How that interfaces with ATP and other energy carrying molecules in terms of continuing the normal biological functions of the body, I have no idea and the answer might ultimately just be "magic." But it seems to me that mass isn't really a big deal for Returned considering they can shift theirs with practice. Maybe they have some ability to pull it from the SR as investiture then convert it to mass and then reverse the process. Maybe that's how their metabolism works and they're constantly turning investiture into chemicals to continue their biological functions without needing other inputs. For all we know, the divine breath is really a kind of portal to the SR that allows them to push and pull investiture through in the first place. That might actually make the most sense, as so long as they have it they're connected to their spiritual ideal and when they give it up they're briefly creating a surge of Connection to the ideal of another person along with the investiture to allow that ideal to manifest. But its clear that while the divine breath skips over some biological functions, at some point they do take effect. Otherwise they wouldn't need air and thus wouldn't be able to bleed to death. As for menstruation, I imagine they probably don't but could if they knew how (that's weird to say but I think its correct) considering that returned are considered sterile unless they have special knowledge that allows it.

That's not necessarily true.  In other examples where Investiture is interacting with food and/or air function (SA

Spoiler

Lift

, Mistborn [

Spoiler

Gasper & Subsumer Ferrings

), it's doing so with a metabolic-level conversion; the magic will oxygenate your blood and/or add sugars, but that blood is still needed to carry and distribute all that goodness to your various organs.  

[Aspiring Writer]

Intriguing. I don't remember them having to eat or drink to survive, nor do I remember Lightsong every mentioning how they have to poop. I wonder why?

[trav]

On 1.10.2020 at 5:28 AM, Aspiring Writer said:

nor do I remember Lightsong every mentioning how they have to poop. I wonder why?

not an enticing plot point now, is it?

the book could have used a few passages where characters inform us that they really need to take a dump though.

Edited October 6, 2020 by trav

[Keepsleep]

On 9/30/2020 at 9:28 PM, Aspiring Writer said:

Intriguing. I don't remember them having to eat or drink to survive, nor do I remember Lightsong every mentioning how they have to poop. I wonder why?

When he was camping out trying to get Allmother’s attention, it did say he had not eaten or drank much in order to avoid needing to use the privvy. 

[a Faceless Immortal]

I believe this is the quote @Keepsleep was referring to is this;

Quote

"As he sat--idly listening to a group of musicians--a priestess occasionally checked on him.  Several hours passed.  He didn’t eat or drink very much so he didn’t need to visit the privy." - pg 1088 (of the free draft on his website)

That seems pretty good evidence of usual bodily function among the returned to me. Now, whether or not this is because they expect their body to and so it does or if it's something a skilled Returned like our old friend 'Peacegiver Kalad-Talaxin-Vasher, Warbreaker the Peaceful, Collector of Pseudonyms' could choose not to do remains to be seen I guess.

Edited May 31, 2021 by a Faceless Immortal
edited because of my poor grammar and lack of reading skills

[+robardin]

On 9/30/2020 at 11:28 PM, Aspiring Writer said:

Intriguing. I don't remember them having to eat or drink to survive, nor do I remember Lightsong every mentioning how they have to poop. I wonder why?

So as quoted above, at one passage Lightsong reflects on the fact that consuming enough food and drink would eventually require him to "visit the privy" as with anybody else, but he hadn't reached that threshold to need to go just yet (in terms of the time he'd spent waiting for the Allmother).

But do they need to eat food to survive? No - at least that's what Lightsong thinks on p. 45, shortly before getting his weekly Breath from the child.

Quote

Llarimar pursed his lips in displeasure. Other servants began to file in, bearing various dishes of food. Mundane, human food. As a Returned, Lightsong didn't really need to eat such things -- they would not give him strength or banish his fatigue. They were just an indulgence.

He thinks he "doesn't really need to eat" mundane food, but really, how would he know? As someone who Returned not only in T'telir, where he would be revered as a god, he did so in the presence of someone who was already a priest at the Court of Gods! Short of actually Returning in the Court itself, one can hardly imagine a quicker path to divine pampering, LOL.

So, despite what he thinks, he's never had to go without food for long enough to know what would happen to him without it. But he does know, and can feel, that he's near to death from running out of Investiture, since the Hallandren priests keep the Returned rationed to the minimum one Breath per week.

[apepi]

Was thinking about the menstruating part... 

Stormlight

Spoiler

I do think returned females do. If we look at female Radiants, it does appear they do. And seeing as the appearance thing is somewhat similar between radiants and returned, I think they still do. Because doing so, is part of their identity. It isn't about their ability to have children, but it is part of seeing themselves as female. I can also see the older females having gone through menopause and not have to deal with it. I also can see males working how they are supposed to because it is part of their identity. And they seemed to talk about having sex, so we can moderately confirm that at least some of the male things work.