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Valigus

Theory on windrunner potential powers

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Ok so we know that windrunners are very close to Bondsmiths as an order and this is what causes their power up moments when they swear ideals and seem to not create obviously but become their own source of investiture for a brief time.

Additionally dalinar seemingly with adhesion can fully power up knights with investiture. however we have a the stormfather having said that Bondsmiths adhesion is different from windrunner adhesion. 
however windrunner adhesion is so far very underpowered compared to some surges we have seen. On top of this from the information given windrunners Role within the knights radiant seems to have been as commandos, scouts, strike forces and quick response teams as opposed to stone wards which seem to have been the line infantry of the radiants.

with adhesion being underpowered, their role among the radiants Requiring them to be self sufficient and dalinars uses of adhesion I think it’s possibly why may have access to these abilities.

 

1. storm light creation- this fits very well with bondsmith adhesion and with their role in the radiants, especially since we don’t hear  Skybreakers filling the same role. However it’s also super op

a. Storm light generation- basically in a similar way to lift just making it through calories, this is doubtful since lift is unique seemingly.

b. Spontaneous generation- basically what windrunners already do when swearing oaths just becoming full of stormlight but on command this would probably be a 5th ideal thing and if it’s very very powerful may affect their squires as well.

c. Stormlight fusion- this I think is a much more reasonable and balanced version of ability b and I think more in line with the 2 surges basically a windrunner would take in a bunch of stormlight and use it to basically start stormlight fuaion generating it for themselves for a while this could take any amount to start but I imagine it would take a lot. So like for example dalinar infuses a windrunner then they use all of it to start fusion.

(stormlight fusion  may actually be what happens when they say their oaths since kaladin in wor sucks in all the storm light on the hallway before bursting with what I assume is more light than he took in since it was during the weeping.)

2. perfect stormlight capturing- basically using adhesion to just hold stormlight perfectly without releasing any, but this may also just be what happens to all fifth ideal radiants though it does like up with adhesion.

3. A possible later ability linked to leadership and their resonance may be instant cool squires we know dalinar can use adhesion to gain information adhesion plus gravitation shoudl be able to impart it. It’s also possible later ideal radiants who would have to embody leadership may have way more squires. Essentially imagine if a 5th ideal windrunner walks into a group of 30 or even 100 soldiers and is like ok you guys are coming with me and turns them all to squires on command and grants them the knowledge to use those powers. This seems a little op especially if you can also increase the number of total squires, and I have seen it suggested they may be able to communicate over distances with their squires.

 

overall I think the most likely at least as windrunner specific are 3 and 1c

Edited by Valigus
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Windrunners can deflect highstorms and survive in space using Adhesion's ability to manipulate pressure. That is not an underpowered ability...

2 hours ago, Valigus said:

b. Spontaneous generation- basically what windrunners already do when swearing oaths just becoming full of stormlight but on command this would probably be a 5th ideal thing and if it’s very very powerful may affect their squires as well.

You're misreading what happens in those scenes. When Kaladin appears to explode with Stormlight, he's not generating it, he's absorbing it from every single source near him. He takes it from the gemstones woven into the hair of the listeners in WoK and from all the lamps in WoR, as the text notes and the exact same thing happens to the Lopen when he unintentionally swears the Second Ideal.

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c. Stormlight fusion- this I think is a much more reasonable and balanced version of ability b and I think more in line with the 2 surges basically a windrunner would take in a bunch of stormlight and use it to basically start stormlight fuaion generating it for themselves for a while this could take any amount to start but I imagine it would take a lot. So like for example dalinar infuses a windrunner then they use all of it to start fusion.

Investiture follows its own form of thermodynamics and can't be created from nothing, you either have to change something else into Investiture like Lift does or you have to pull more Investiture from the Spiritual Realm or some more physical source.

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2. perfect stormlight capturing- basically using adhesion to just hold stormlight perfectly without releasing any, but this may also just be what happens to all fifth ideal radiants though it does like up with adhesion.

Humans are simply too imperfect a vessel for the power to hold it perfectly. Consider that you need a molecularly perfect gemstone to not leak, you aren't getting that with a human body, ever. Brandon has said that humans are always going to be less efficient than Voidbringers (who have gemhearts) so perfect retention is definitely not on the cards for Fifth Ideal Radiants.

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It’s a weird approximation basically in order for fusion to happen right you need to put in energy first to get to where fusion can happen. So stormlight fusion is basically where you woudl use a bunch of storm light to start a “fusion process” generating more stormlight if that makes sense

I’m not entirely sure that he is not generating it he seems to help stormlight more then he absorbed specific during the weeping.

additionally  we actually know nothing about How adhesion really works a scholar claims that adhesion is the surge of vacuum and pressure and we have 1 example of this actually working that way. We have only seen adhesion be used by a windrunner to do something that doesn’t involve sticking things together once with adhesion. So while these abilities are assumed to be possible we don’t know.

if stormlight follows a law similar to thermo dynamics storm light fusion seems highly possible. In fact it could even be possible for windrunners to create black holes or small suns

Edited by Valigus
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1 hour ago, Valigus said:

we actually know nothing about How adhesion really works

This right here is actually one of my great aggravations with the Starlight Archive. On one hand, the Windrunners are the order we know the most about. We know their duties and Oaths. We know they get the most(and most powerful) squires. We also know what kind of people the honor spree go for when bonding. But... we only know what one of their surges does with any reliability, and a full half of their power set has only been hinted at. We're almost half way through the series after being with the order for all four books. And... almost nothing. Sticking rocks to walls. Creating a windshield while flying to protect their eyes. The biggest hint we've had was when Kal created a pocket in the Highstorm. I can only imagine Sanderson is saving it for a big reveal or high point. Because if he isn't, and adhesion is just meh... Bridge Four's lack of dedicated, on-screen research into figuring it out will feel hollow(at least to me).

A good comparison at this point(at least in part) would maybe be how (SPOILER) Harry Dresden hasn't thought to research what a Starborn is in Dresden Files. (END SPOILER) Granted, it's not quite as egregious. But... the willful lack of experimentation is adding up.

Edited by BasementDwellingRadiant
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1 hour ago, Weltall said:

Windrunners can deflect highstorms and survive in space using Adhesion's ability to manipulate pressure. That is not an underpowered ability...

You are totally right. Adhesion is the surge of vacuum and pressure. All winds are is the movement of molecules due to vacuum and pressure. I imagine that him deflecting the highstorm was just a raw but crude manipulation of these things. Potentially, we could see full manipulation of the winds to a really technical level in the future- avatar the last airbender style.

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1 hour ago, Valigus said:

It’s a weird approximation basically in order for fusion to happen right you need to put in energy first to get to where fusion can happen. So stormlight fusion is basically where you woudl use a bunch of storm light to start a “fusion process” generating more stormlight if that makes sense

Ummmm, no, it actually makes no sense. Stormlight is Investiture coming from the Spiritual Realm which can be (imperfectly) captured in the Physical Realm before dissipating. It's not something you can just generate more of under your own power.

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I’m not entirely sure that he is not generating it he seems to help stormlight more then he absorbed specific during the weeping.

Things infused with Stormlight glow. Kaladin and Lopen explicitly absorb huge amounts of Stormlight from their surroundings when they swear Ideals. It's coming from somewhere but that somewhere isn't the Radiant themselves.

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additionally  we actually know nothing about How adhesion really works a scholar claims that adhesion is the surge of vacuum and pressure and we have 1 example of this actually working that way. We have only seen adhesion be used by a windrunner to do something that doesn’t involve sticking things together once with adhesion. So while these abilities are assumed to be possible we don’t know.

The fact that we've seen an application that does not involve sticking things together once means that sticking things together isn't the only thing it can do. Brandon has said quite directly that the Windrunner power set has been set up to allow them to travel in a vacuum. Gravitation will get you off Roshar but it's Adhesion that will keep you alive out there.

Also, Khriss is not just 'a scholar', she's the most knowledgeable person about Investiture in the Cosmere. She knows what she's talking about.

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if stormlight follows a law similar to thermo dynamics storm light fusion seems highly possible. In fact it could even be possible for windrunners to create black holes or small suns

We have a Word of Brandon that even a whole group of Windrunners would find this to be theoretically possible but practically impossible.

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the other Nathan

If a large group of Windrunners lashed enough mass towards a single point, could they create a black hole?

Brandon Sanderson

Offhand, I think that would be theoretically possible, though in practicality impossible. We'd need [Peter Ahlstrom] to do some math.

#SandersonChat Twitter Q&A with Audible.com (Feb. 4, 2016)

 

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If lift can generate investiture from calories why wouldn’t a windrunner be able to preform some sort of similar thing, addiotnslly stormlight fusion is just my approximation if you would rather it could be described as pulling storm light directly form the spiritual realm and that would require the same criteria just enough to pull more out of the spiritual realm plus if it was just about sucking in more storm light why woudl it just be windrunners, as far as we know it’s because of their relationship to bond smiths and therefore adhesion whcih also can seemingly pull investiture form the physical realm

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19 minutes ago, Valigus said:

If lift can generate investiture from calories why wouldn’t a windrunner be able to preform some sort of similar thing, addiotnslly stormlight fusion is just my approximation if you would rather it could be described as pulling storm light directly form the spiritual realm and that would require the same criteria just enough to pull more out of the spiritual realm plus if it was just about sucking in more storm light why woudl it just be windrunners, as far as we know it’s because of their relationship to bond smiths and therefore adhesion whcih also can seemingly pull investiture form the physical realm

Lift can only do this because Cultivation a litteral Shard of Adonalsium gave her that power.

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On 28.09.2020 at 10:52 PM, Valigus said:

If lift can generate investiture from calories why wouldn’t a windrunner be able to preform some sort of similar thing, addiotnslly stormlight fusion is just my approximation if you would rather it could be described as pulling storm light directly form the spiritual realm and that would require the same criteria just enough to pull more out of the spiritual realm plus if it was just about sucking in more storm light why woudl it just be windrunners, as far as we know it’s because of their relationship to bond smiths and therefore adhesion whcih also can seemingly pull investiture form the physical realm

What Lift is doing is practicly Cultivation's version of Allomancy, but  with food instead of metals.

Also, part of Bondsmith powers is leading and connecting people, Spiritual Adhesion - and Windrunners have this power too, this is why they have many squires and why they often are great leaders. Every Surge has Physical and Spiritual aspect.

Also, ability to go into space or underwater cannot be ignored (I think Dustbringers will do better underwater but Windrunners also can do the trick).

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