the_archduke

Adolin and Maya

57 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Bliev said:

We rarely see any other character provide solace to Adolin; usually it's the other way around.

Well Renarin has been there for Adolin on numerous occasions and we just have not seen Renarin on screen recently (when they are in the same location. prior Adolin was on the mission with Shallan while Renarin was on the mission to Hearthstone). I would imagine Renarin has been there for Adolin even though we don't actively see it. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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2 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Well Renarin has been there for Adolin on numerous occasions and we just have not seen Renarin on screen for a bit. I would imagine Renarin has been there for Adolin even though we don't actively see it. 

Great point. Renarin often provides a corrective to Adolin in WOR in particular. I wonder if they've remained as close. It was strange for Adolin to see Renarin as a Radiant in OB. But given what we've learned of Renarin being somewhat ostracized due to his corrupted spren, it seems like he probably still needs some big brother protection as well. I was worried that Adolin might retreat from Renarin due to his own insecurities about being surrounded at all times by remnants of gods. 

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1 hour ago, Bliev said:

As an aside, to me, this week's chapter adds more evidence to the idea that Adolin is *not* just blithely okay with his father's reflections on his mother, and his character arc toward self-realization seems more clear (as per Navani's POV anyways). Seeing him and Shallan present a united married front to Dalinar was really a great sign that their marriage is strong, and it was nice for me to see Shallan comfort Adolin and relax him in return. We rarely see any other character provide solace to Adolin; usually it's the other way around.

Ah, so Adolin's issue all along was that he was never able to be his own person before. And now that he has been happily married for a year, and no longer under the responsibility of being Dalinar's perfect son, he has finally grown into himself. Wonderful. Wish I could have seen that as it took place. Also seems like the kind of person that Adolin is exploring to be is also someone that doesn't seem to present any issues for anyone other than Dalinar. More on that later.

 

Quote

Neither Shallan nor Dalinar would admit to squabbling over Adolin—indeed, Navani suspected Dalinar would insist he approved of the marriage. But he’d also never needed to give up one of his children to the influence of an outsider. Navani felt Dalinar blamed Shallan too much for the changes in the boy. Shallan wasn’t pushing him to be something he was not; more, he finally felt free enough to explore an identity that wasn’t tied to being the Blackthorn’s son.

This to me read like Dalinar is going through what most parents go through when their children commit their lives to someone else: having to give up a part of that child in a way you haven't before, and learn to accept it. It remains to be seen whether Adolin's low-key challenging of his father's expectations actually matter in any meaningful character sense. It's got to start straining their relationship to the point where it starts having negative consequences for one or both of them, and we are NOT there yet. So far, it just seems like normal banter indicating that Dalinar is still going through what is otherwise a normal adjustment to a life change. We shall see.

In regards to your larger post from earlier: most of those "character development" items you bring up occurred in the past of the narrative, and most of them were resolved before the start of RoW. All those points you made about "insecurities" seem to fall flat for me after having just read the new chapter, where Adolin seems to have anything but insecurities. In fact, he seems so secure in his marriage, his family position, and ranking where he feels comfortable enough to start testing/probing/challenging his father on the expectations Dalinar still holds for him.  I'll address that more when I have the time, but for now I want to reiterate that my contention has always been that Adolin needed to be given something new this book, otherwise there would be issues for the narrative, especially where this "Maya" plot is concerned.

Do I think that problems with his father are going to be this new "arc" for Adolin? Do I really see that tension between them growing in a way that actually has repercussions to the narrative plot? I'm leaning towards no, especially given that Adolin is confirmed to be jaunting off to Shadesmar with Shallan for most of the book. To develop that animosity, that tension, that build up, they have to interact with each other.

Though now that I think on it, is Dalinar going to be the "envoy" to Lasting Integrity that Shallan and Adolin escort? Especially since we know that Taravangian is supposed to get him out of the Tower? That actually would be a fun read, the tensions and squabbles between the 3 of them, where such problems might actually hurt their ability to complete the task. I like that thought. It's probably been debunked already somewhere though...

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56 minutes ago, Bliev said:

Great point. Renarin often provides a corrective to Adolin in WOR in particular. I wonder if they've remained as close. It was strange for Adolin to see Renarin as a Radiant in OB. But given what we've learned of Renarin being somewhat ostracized due to his corrupted spren, it seems like he probably still needs some big brother protection as well. I was worried that Adolin might retreat from Renarin due to his own insecurities about being surrounded at all times by remnants of gods. 

Renarin has bridge 4 to provide support, and Jasnah and Navani to help him figure out his spren. Last time we saw Renarin with Adolin, he healed Adolin's wrist, suggested that Shallan could draw Sureblood, and looked out for Adolin at the battle of Theylenah. Since truthwatchers are all about finding truth, I could easily see Renarin continuing to help Adolin on that journey. 

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@DeployParachute I have to say that I have really enjoyed this character jaunt with you re: Adolin. It's been really helpful for me to dissect my thoughts on this to read the perspective of someone who has vastly different interpretations of the same on-page experiences than I have. Thank you. 

@Pathfinder I would love to read that. Maybe Renarin will be the "special envoy" to keep him around Adolin. lol

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5 minutes ago, Bliev said:

@DeployParachute I have to say that I have really enjoyed this character jaunt with you re: Adolin. It's been really helpful for me to dissect my thoughts on this to read the perspective of someone who has vastly different interpretations of the same on-page experiences than I have. Thank you. 

@Pathfinder I would love to read that. Maybe Renarin will be the "special envoy" to keep him around Adolin. lol

NP, glad to have someone who engages with me. I know that I come across as abrasive on this forums more often than I would like, so I am always appreciative of someone who sticks around while I try and work on my own shortcomings with getting my points across.

As an aspiring writer, when not doing all things required of me by my day job, raising a family, and other responsibilities, I often find myself looking way too much at the Meta analysis of Brandon's work now, where I didn't before. It almost certainly has had an affect on my level of enjoyment of the books, and these forum interactions are a good reminder that I should stop and take the time to be more focused on why I started this series in the first place: enjoyment. So thank you for that.

To me, it feels like there is still something missing to Adolin. Something critical about his character that would take the story to the next level, and I can't quite put my finger on it. These rants on the forums are kind of my way of working that out now, since I spent the 3 year gap since OB decidedly not thinking about it.

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15 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

As an aspiring writer, when not doing all things required of me by my day job, raising a family, and other responsibilities, I often find myself looking way too much at the Meta analysis of Brandon's work now, where I didn't before. It almost certainly has had an affect on my level of enjoyment of the books, and these forum interactions are a good reminder that I should stop and take the time to be more focused on why I started this series in the first place: enjoyment. So thank you for that.

 

I feel you, completely. I can appreciate your feeling of something "missing" with Adolin--I want *more* as well. And I love that this convo made me think a bit more about why I connect with him--and what is textual and what is just years of those impressions rolling around in the back of my brain.

I find myself on this forum to escape from the same--day job, children, etc.--and I have to find the line between analysis that detracts from my enjoyment and that which enhances it. Pre-internet forums, when I was a young girl/woman, I read so much and so voraciously that I never had *anyone* to talk with about my analysis. So I just stayed in the moment, enjoyed it, and moved on. And I kind of miss that sometimes? So I have to switch back and forth to some less mentally taxing reading sometimes to relax that part of my brain and be mindful and present. 

But that's  harder to do when it's Stormlight time. haha

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