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Lerasium Hemalurgic spikes


Aspiring Writer

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I've been going through the Coppermind Wiki for the better part of two weeks, and I came across the Metallic arts page and saw that for Lerasium, it says that its Hemalugic power was to steal all attributes. When I read this in the back of one of the Mistborn books, I assmed it meant all Metallic arts, so if you use it on a Mistborn, you steal all their powers, but nothing else, as Sazed (Or whoever writes the notes on the back, I assme it's Sazed.) would not know of any other attributes to steal. So does Lerasium steal all the powers of a person spiked, or just metallic arts? Esspically since I feel that's an Atium spike, being made of Ruin's godmetal, would be the superior metal to be used Hemalurgy, being able to steal any attribute, but if Lerasium can steal all the powers of a person, that would not be the case. Thoughts?

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19 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

I've been going through the Coppermind Wiki for the better part of two weeks, and I came across the Metallic arts page and saw that for Lerasium, it says that its Hemalugic power was to steal all attributes. When I read this in the back of one of the Mistborn books, I assmed it meant all Metallic arts, so if you use it on a Mistborn, you steal all their powers, but nothing else, as Sazed (Or whoever writes the notes on the back, I assme it's Sazed.) would not know of any other attributes to steal. So does Lerasium steal all the powers of a person spiked, or just metallic arts? Esspically since I feel that's an Atium spike, being made of Ruin's godmetal, would be the superior metal to be used Hemalurgy, being able to steal any attribute, but if Lerasium can steal all the powers of a person, that would not be the case. Thoughts?

The Ars Arcanum is writen by Khriss, as(likely) is the Hemalurgy chart

I think that Lerasium could only be used on Allomancy and Feruchemy and steal all powers of that sort, but something like say Radiance, would be Atium.

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2 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

I've been going through the Coppermind Wiki for the better part of two weeks, and I came across the Metallic arts page and saw that for Lerasium, it says that its Hemalugic power was to steal all attributes. When I read this in the back of one of the Mistborn books, I assmed it meant all Metallic arts, so if you use it on a Mistborn, you steal all their powers, but nothing else, as Sazed (Or whoever writes the notes on the back, I assme it's Sazed.) would not know of any other attributes to steal. So does Lerasium steal all the powers of a person spiked, or just metallic arts? Esspically since I feel that's an Atium spike, being made of Ruin's godmetal, would be the superior metal to be used Hemalurgy, being able to steal any attribute, but if Lerasium can steal all the powers of a person, that would not be the case. Thoughts?

Correction, Lerasium steals all abilities. We don't know exactly what that includes.
The option I think is likely is that it can steal all 15 options from the table at once (excluding aluminum). But I think it degrades faster than any other spike.

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17 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

Correction, Lerasium steals all abilities. We don't know exactly what that includes.
The option I think is likely is that it can steal all 15 options from the table at once (excluding aluminum). But I think it degrades faster than any other spike.

I feel like Lerasium would steal all of a person's "Human attributes", like strength, intelligence, emotional stability.

The non-power stuff hemalurgy can steal.

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19 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

I've been going through the Coppermind Wiki for the better part of two weeks, and I came across the Metallic arts page and saw that for Lerasium, it says that its Hemalugic power was to steal all attributes. When I read this in the back of one of the Mistborn books, I assmed it meant all Metallic arts, so if you use it on a Mistborn, you steal all their powers, but nothing else, as Sazed (Or whoever writes the notes on the back, I assme it's Sazed.) would not know of any other attributes to steal. So does Lerasium steal all the powers of a person spiked, or just metallic arts? Esspically since I feel that's an Atium spike, being made of Ruin's godmetal, would be the superior metal to be used Hemalurgy, being able to steal any attribute, but if Lerasium can steal all the powers of a person, that would not be the case. Thoughts?

36 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I feel like Lerasium would steal all of a person's "Human attributes", like strength, intelligence, emotional stability.

The non-power stuff hemalurgy can steal.

I think Haylo has it right here. If you look up the Hemalurgic Table of Metals, it shows the two god metals and what they do. Atium says "steals any power" while Lerasium says "steal all abilities." It seems unlikely that ability and power are referring to the same thing, otherwise I don't see why there would be a distinction. Also, it seems unlikely that the God metal of Preservation has a greater utility in Hemalurgy than the God metal of Ruin.

 

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4 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

I think Haylo has it right here. If you look up the Hemalurgic Table of Metals, it shows the two god metals and what they do. Atium says "steals any power" while Lerasium says "steal all abilities." It seems unlikely that ability and power are referring to the same thing, otherwise I don't see why there would be a distinction. Also, it seems unlikely that the God metal of Preservation has a greater utility in Hemalurgy than the God metal of Ruin.

 

Stealing all non-power stuff at once makes Lerasium more useful than Atium. I don't think it's a good measure.
Lerasium has more of the Preservation power than Atium has of Ruin, it is not so difficult for him to do something bigger.

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8 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

Stealing all non-power stuff at once makes Lerasium more useful than Atium. I don't think it's a good measure.
Lerasium has more of the Preservation power than Atium has of Ruin, it is not so difficult for him to do something bigger.

I'm going to have to disagree there. Lerasium spikes would mostly be useful to Kandra, which there are relatively few of at the moment. But a Kandra would still be better off burning the Lerasium and becoming a Mistborn than using it as a spike. Even Brandon has stated that there isn't really a use case for a Lerasium spike, its primary function is still much more enticing than using it for Hemalurgy. Atium on the other hand can steal any power from any magic system(though with some complications with some like the Nahel bond). The only way Lerasium is at all more useful than Atium is that you can use it on any person while Atium is only useful for stealing from someone with a power. But considering stealing powers is what Hemalurgy is mostly about, Atium is the superior tool.

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14 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

Stealing all non-power stuff at once makes Lerasium more useful than Atium. I don't think it's a good measure.
Lerasium has more of the Preservation power than Atium has of Ruin, it is not so difficult for him to do something bigger.

No it doesn't

WoB

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

Why is there such an imbalance between the amount of atium and the amount of lerasium in the world? Also, why are atium and lerasium very imbalanced in Allomantic power (Lerasium is far more useful than atium, really)?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There isn't. Leras is just spread out further. He is in the mists, in the Well, and in the lerasium. Ruin's power however is condensed strictly in atium.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

They contain equal amounts of power

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21 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

I think Haylo has it right here. If you look up the Hemalurgic Table of Metals, it shows the two god metals and what they do. Atium says "steals any power" while Lerasium says "steal all abilities." It seems unlikely that ability and power are referring to the same thing, otherwise I don't see why there would be a distinction. Also, it seems unlikely that the God metal of Preservation has a greater utility in Hemalurgy than the God metal of Ruin.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that, as abilities can mean lots of things. And while I agree Ruin's god metal would be the superior metal to be used in Hemalurgy, having Lerasium being able to steal all Allomantic abilities would make sense. Use a spike of Preservation to steal all of something related to Perseveration. And Atium would still be superior due to the fact it still has more utility in the wider cosmere. Lerasium would be only useful in the case of Allomancy, while Atium can be used anywhere. Not sure how Feruchemy would add into this.

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7 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

I'm not sure I agree with that, as abilities can mean lots of things. And while I agree Ruin's god metal would be the superior metal to be used in Hemalurgy, having Lerasium being able to steal all Allomantic abilities would make sense. Use a spike of Preservation to steal all of something related to Perseveration. And Atium would still be superior due to the fact it still has more utility in the wider cosmere. Lerasium would be only useful in the case of Allomancy, while Atium can be used anywhere. Not sure how Feruchemy would add into this.

That still makes no sense. Why spike powers out of a Mistborn when you can burn the Lerasium to become a Mistborn that's more powerful than you'd become if you stole the powers? Remember, Hemalurgy always results in a net loss of power and there are very few Mistborn that would be worth spiking the powers out of as opposed to burning the Lerasium.  Not to mention, the stronger the Mistborn, the less likely you'll be able to take them alive to manage it(considering the fact that you are not a Mistborn because for some reason you didn't burn your Lerasium). But if you don't bag a strong one, you're wasting your Lerasium. 

Maybe that is how it works and that's why Brandon equates using Lerasium as a spike to using a nuclear bomb as a paperweight. But, there honestly isn't much he could have made a Lerasium spike do that makes it at all smart to use it except to burn it or make an alloy of it and burn it. 

 
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12 hours ago, Frustration said:

No it doesn't

WoB

  Hide contents

Chaos (paraphrased)

Why is there such an imbalance between the amount of atium and the amount of lerasium in the world? Also, why are atium and lerasium very imbalanced in Allomantic power (Lerasium is far more useful than atium, really)?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There isn't. Leras is just spread out further. He is in the mists, in the Well, and in the lerasium. Ruin's power however is condensed strictly in atium.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

They contain equal amounts of power

If you make anything into gas instead of metal it will spread quite alot more..!
1L of water at room temperature = 1367 L water vapour at room temperature (if you had a magical way of just turning liquid to gas without changing pressure or temperature :P)

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1 hour ago, Harrycrapper said:

That still makes no sense. Why spike powers out of a Mistborn when you can burn the Lerasium to become a Mistborn that's more powerful than you'd become if you stole the powers? Remember, Hemalurgy always results in a net loss of power and there are very few Mistborn that would be worth spiking the powers out of as opposed to burning the Lerasium.  Not to mention, the stronger the Mistborn, the less likely you'll be able to take them alive to manage it(considering the fact that you are not a Mistborn because for some reason you didn't burn your Lerasium). But if you don't bag a strong one, you're wasting your Lerasium. 

Maybe that is how it works and that's why Brandon equates using Lerasium as a spike to using a nuclear bomb as a paperweight. But, there honestly isn't much he could have made a Lerasium spike do that makes it at all smart to use it except to burn it or make an alloy of it and burn it. 

 

I agree it doesn't make too much sense to use it like that, which is probably why Brandon Sanderson said there wasn't much point to making it into a spike than to just burn it, though it does have the added benefit of taking away a Mistborn's power and we also don't know how it would work with feruchemy. If it can take all the powers of a feruchemist, that might be worth something, as there isn't a Lerasium equavliant for feruchemy burning a bit of Lerasium and making the rest into a spike could make someone into another Lord Ruler. 

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3 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

I agree it doesn't make too much sense to use it like that, which is probably why Brandon Sanderson said there wasn't much point to making it into a spike than to just burn it, though it does have the added benefit of taking away a Mistborn's power and we also don't know how it would work with feruchemy. If it can take all the powers of a feruchemist, that might be worth something, as there isn't a Lerasium equavliant for feruchemy burning a bit of Lerasium and making the rest into a spike could make someone into another Lord Ruler. 

You might be right... but then, an Atium spike might work for that? Dunno... Atium spikes "Must be refined" by the way. According to the chart, at least. What does that even MEAN? Atium from the geodes is pure, right? does that mean you need to make an Atium alloy to specify what it does? But then what's the point of using Atium for the spike?! :angry:

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43 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

You might be right... but then, an Atium spike might work for that? Dunno... Atium spikes "Must be refined" by the way. According to the chart, at least. What does that even MEAN? Atium from the geodes is pure, right? does that mean you need to make an Atium alloy to specify what it does? But then what's the point of using Atium for the spike?! :angry:

I think you are misunderstanding the Atium spike. First off, not sure what refined means in this case, but I'm sure it can be easily done, Malatium is an alloy of Atium and they made that with fairly old technology.  And the Atium spike can steal any power from anyone, no matter the type of investiture, which gives it a lot of versatility. You can make a spike that's better for a certain situation, like using a pewter spike to steal someone's pewter, as that is cheaper to get, or if my Lerasium theory is correct, a spike that can steal all the powers of allomancy and maybe even feruchemy, which is good in that situation, but not in any other. The atium spike seems special not for its raw power or anything like that, but for the variety of situations it can work it.

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