Argent

RoW Chapter 12 Discussion

241 posts in this topic

7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

What? This is still the first day. Fourth Bridge is over a thousand kilometers away picking up Herdazians.

Clearly I need to pay more attention to the logistics and less attention to small character developments and hunting for shreds of foreshadowing. I remember, now, that Navani was riding in a capsule, with Kaladin and Dalinar flying outside (with more windrunners). So I guess some/most of the windrunners are there, but the big boat itself is slowly making its way across Alethkar.

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Kaladin seems like on a stage before the one Shallan on. Wishing to slide into "nothinghappenedness".

Its pretty baffling to me that in so many cases pretty shrewd, Kaladin is so clueless about Shallan problem. I mean, is it that hard to realize Shallan using other personas to cope with pain is bad idea?

Maybe in the end Shallan will scream at him something like "Dont try to cope, dont try to be like me, just accept the pain and move on".

This advice, though, is the cure for both of them.

Edited by Harbour
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4 hours ago, agrabes said:

I find it really interesting too that Shallan would not tell Adolin about Formless, but does immediately tell Kaladin about it

That was Radiant actually.

I think everyone is going to get their quest assignments soon.  Traditional bar scene where the different adventurers compare notes and catch up with each other followed by "the thing!"  I very much wish we knew what "the thing!" is.  Leshwi seems to have some idea.

Edited by Karger
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8 hours ago, Pattern said:

Adolin is the best! Roshar needs psychiatrists more than ever...

Rock leaving won't be the end of him, I bet ;-)

WOB - "This is the last we'll see of Rock in the book, I'm afraid. I really hope to be able to do the Rock novella sometime in the next few years to trace his course, but one of the things I forced myself to do in this series is keep the focus on the main storylines and characters." :( Today on Reddit

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Adolin is such a wonderful person.  Caring companion to all and paragon of supportiveness for his friends in distress.  No real character flaws and doesn't even seem to feel an inferiority complex regarding all the other important characters becoming Radiants before him.

He's going to die soon isn't he? 

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33 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Adolin is such a wonderful person.  Caring companion to all and paragon of supportiveness for his friends in distress.  No real character flaws and doesn't even seem to feel an inferiority complex regarding all the other important characters becoming Radiants before him.

He's going to die soon isn't he? 

Yep,

I've always thought that he would get offed, and that makes me sad.

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10 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

First these things Brightlord Master Highmarshal Stormface  “I needed someone you couldn’t intimidate,” she replied. “That list at best includes three people. And the queen was likely to transform you into a crystal goblet or something.” Brandon you mad genius you took the darkness and made some levity appear!! Syl you always seem to know what Kal needs even if her won't admit it. Shallan explaining where babies come from, Veil that was mean!! Note to self have Veil teach Syl to gamble. Nahn's are being messed with. Jasnah what have you been up to. Adolin has not disowned his father that is a positive note. This chapter was so bittersweet. It's interesting how Veil and the three consider Kal a friend.  "You’re my only bridgeboy,” Adolin said with a grin. “Where would I get another?" Oh Adolin you are one of kind.

Rock go off my friend and have your novella. What do you know of Hoid? Hmmm.... 

My heartstrings could not take this chapter. Kal don't do something foolish.

All of the above. I would die for Kal, Syl, Adolin and Rock.

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1 hour ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Adolin is such a wonderful person.  Caring companion to all and paragon of supportiveness for his friends in distress.  No real character flaws and doesn't even seem to feel an inferiority complex regarding all the other important characters becoming Radiants before him.

He's going to die soon isn't he? 

Yep,

I've always thought that he would get offed, and that makes me sad.

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Adolin has every characteristic  to be dislikable for me rich, audacious, pampered, handsome, convinced and inconsequential

And yet he's just so lighthearted and kind, I just can't stop myself from loving him

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3 hours ago, Smye said:

WOB - "This is the last we'll see of Rock in the book, I'm afraid. I really hope to be able to do the Rock novella sometime in the next few years to trace his course, but one of the things I forced myself to do in this series is keep the focus on the main storylines and characters." :( Today on Reddit

Nothing against you, but I literally smacked my screen when I read this. 

2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Adolin is such a wonderful person.  Caring companion to all and paragon of supportiveness for his friends in distress.  No real character flaws and doesn't even seem to feel an inferiority complex regarding all the other important characters becoming Radiants before him.

He's going to die soon isn't he? 

This has been my thought ever since OB. I really don't want it to happen. But it is gonna happen.

I just hope it can hold off until the climactic scene in book 5. If he goes out, I'd like it to be him swearing the first/second ideal of the Edgedancers, followed by saving someone (preferably Kaladin/ShallanVeilRadiant) before being struck down in a blaze of glory and defying Odium the whole way. 

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10 hours ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

People have gotten into the habit of thinking that Kaladin and Shallan level trauma is the benchmark for Radiancy. If it was, then pretty much no one would be Radiants.

They are the benchmark for the ultimate level of radiance, kinda

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8 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Nothing against you, but I literally smacked my screen when I read this. 

Right there with you...

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4 hours ago, Smye said:

WOB - "This is the last we'll see of Rock in the book, I'm afraid. I really hope to be able to do the Rock novella sometime in the next few years to trace his course, but one of the things I forced myself to do in this series is keep the focus on the main storylines and characters." :( Today on Reddit

As sad as this chapter was, this is the saddest part. I can’t even go back and reread it knowing this is Rocks last moment for awhile. Hopefully. I really hoped he would’ve stayed around for the long haul. I understand Bridge Four evolving and changing but for him to leave, while Kal is at his lowest makes me hurt. He is doing the right thing, what he needs to do, but I can’t imagine what Kal is thinking knowing he may never see him again. 

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38 minutes ago, paperstones said:

. I understand Bridge Four evolving and changing

Also from the same annotation from Brandon, about Bridge Four:

Spoiler

That said, what we're witnessing here is kind of the end of Bridge Four as a cohesive entity, at least as it existed in the series up until now. I was sad, for all the fun of this chapter, to be moving into this sequence of the stories. There was a temptation, of course, to just let Bridge Four continue to be Bridge Four--but it wouldn't feel right. Lives change and evolve. My tight-knit friend group from college can never be the same again, not now that we all have families and jobs. Bridge Four couldn't remain the same either.

Rock is off to the Horneater Peaks to be "punished" (possibly by being given responsibility and being made their King or something, is my guess). The former Bridge Four crew aren't Kal's squires anymore - they're Windrunners in their own right and have crews of their own squires.

I'm also going to guess that sometime soon is the moment Rlain (possibly after being rejected by Yunfah?) goes off and starts doing his own thing, and not waiting to be part of the no-longer-cohesive Bridge Four.

Edited by ftl
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7 hours ago, robardin said:

I would love to hear Syl's take on what has or is happening with Maya...

For example, is Adolin still able to hear her and/or summon her in fewer than ten heartbeats, or was that an artifact of "Three Realms being very close" after Dalinar's UNITY moment while swearing the Third Ideal of the Bondsmiths in Odium's divine FACE?

And you'd think sentient spren would have had some kind of jaw-drop moment to see a "deadeye" act with volition in Shadesmar the way she did to defend Adolin from the Fused! (Or at least, to avenge him... He'd already gotten a pretty nasty gut wound by then...)

I kind of wonder if Adolin explained to them what happened with Maya. I got the impression that Kaladin and Shallan didn't directly witness what Maya did for Adolin in Shadesmar, and obviously no one else would know of how Maya communicated with him later.

But I don't see a reason why Adolin wouldn't at least tell those select few (Dalinar, Kaladin, etc.) about it, since he knows they can keep a secret, and it probably would've been weird if he'd just started calling her Maya out loud with no explanation.

Yet Kaladin just speaks of Adolin's blade like any other dead Shardblade. Kaladin treating Adolin's attachment to Maya so harshly would be pretty out of character unless he doesn't know about what happened with Adolin and Maya.

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Adolin probably hasn't said much about Maya, because there's not much to say. All the stuff about reviving her is our fan-speculation; there's no indication that anybody in-world has come up with this as a possibility.

Sure, Adolin kind of summoned her with fewer heartbeats once, but as far as he can tell, that was just a curiosity. She helped him out in Shadesmar, but is that some big heavy Reveal Of Cosmic Secrets? No, it was just a fight, and I think none of the characters have interacted with Deadeyes in Shadesmar for this to seem unusual. And he knew her name - great, so his sword is named Maya and not Oathbringer, cool name.

I think Adolin hasn't talked about it not because he's keeping it some terrible hidden secret, but because to the characters involved, it seems like a minor curiosity rather than a hint of massive world revelations. They don't get to do the textual analysis we can do to see what's been given narrative importance that indicates it's part of some larger plot.

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1 hour ago, Ptolema said:

I kind of wonder if Adolin explained to them what happened with Maya. I got the impression that Kaladin and Shallan didn't directly witness what Maya did for Adolin in Shadesmar, and obviously no one else would know of how Maya communicated with him later.

But I don't see a reason why Adolin wouldn't at least tell those select few (Dalinar, Kaladin, etc.) about it, since he knows they can keep a secret, and it probably would've been weird if he'd just started calling her Maya out loud with no explanation.

Yet Kaladin just speaks of Adolin's blade like any other dead Shardblade. Kaladin treating Adolin's attachment to Maya so harshly would be pretty out of character unless he doesn't know about what happened with Adolin and Maya.

Unlike us Adolin only experiences Maya's actions during a few moments with a lot of adrenaline.  He probably just attributes it to "shardblades are special" rather anything unique or important having to do with their bond.

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How can a single chapter make me both cry so much and then laugh so much !! 
This chapter for me was Sanderson at his best. 
Have I ever said that adolin’s is my favourite character after Kaladin and dalinar. He is just such a good friend and as expected very understanding but worried about Shallan. 
I loved when he said “ I am not giving up Maya” !! Maya, did you hear it? 
Also loved how much Kal has changed his mind about Adolin. From he is such a brat to how has no spren taken you up yet? 
loved it!
Rock is going off that part was really sad. 

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4 hours ago, Karger said:

Unlike us Adolin only experiences Maya's actions during a few moments with a lot of adrenaline.  He probably just attributes it to "shardblades are special" rather anything unique or important having to do with their bond.

I beg to differ and even add an: On the contrary!

Adolin stems from a culture, where shardblades are coveted and venerated  objects. Up to a very short time in the past they where mysterious, too. People only knew that they where immensely powerful. Quite some of them where named by their owners.

My point is: an Alethi like Adolin, educated for warfare, had of course a very personal relationship to his shardblade, even before he learned (less than two years earlier!!!) that they originally had been spren. Hardheaded as he is, he just refuses to change his ways of handling his sword of caring for it, just because, you know, Modern Times.

It might well be, that this is the core reason, that radiancy for him is further away than for many others.

Edited by Michael Portz
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1 hour ago, Michael Portz said:

I beg to differ and even add an: On the contrary!

Adolin stems from a culture, where shardblades are coveted and venerated  objects. Up to a very short time in the past they where mysterious, too. People only knew that they where immensely powerful. Quite some of them where named by their owners.

My point is: an Alethi like Adolin, educated for warfare, had of course a very personal relationship to his shardblade, even before he learned (less than two years earlier!!!) that they originally had been spren. Hardheaded as he is, he just refuses to change his ways of handling his sword of caring for it, just because, you know, Modern Times.

It might well be, that this is the core reason, that radiancy for him is further away than for many others.

I'd find that quite hard to believe. Not only did Adolin specifically refuse to name his Shardblade like others do out of respect for it, Dalinar's Shardwielding skills were among the best on Roshar and yet he was able to attain Radiancy and bond the Stormfather.

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1 hour ago, Michael Portz said:

Hardheaded as he is, he just refuses to change his ways of handling his sword of caring for it, just because, you know, Modern Times.

I find very hard to reconcile your image of adolin with mine. Hardheaded is he? Not much. He is Dalinar’s son so he is that, a little but I think he is quite flexible too. 
I think he has always proven to be quite in sync with “modern times”. 
I also find it hard to believe that he refuses to shed his bond with Maya just because he treats his blade as a tool. If it just a tool to him, then why not shed it, and get a better improved one. An alive spren alongwith radiant powers. 
No, I think there is some sort of connection that he shares with Maya which he does not want to let go. A connection which I think had only strengthened, once he learned that she is a spren, a dead one. 

Edited by The Traveller
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Anyone else thinking that Adolin’s efforts to help Kal and Shallan overcome/cope with mental illness will be mirrored with his (hopeful) revival of Maya?

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14 hours ago, Karger said:

That was Radiant actually.

I think everyone is going to get their quest assignments soon.  Traditional bar scene where the different adventurers compare notes and catch up with each other followed by "the thing!"  I very much wish we knew what "the thing!" is.  Leshwi seems to have some idea.

I suspect The 4th Bridge is going to be attacked and the Windrunners will have to go. Things will get bad. Kal might swear the 4th oath back at camp as he realizes what he needed and then save the day. 

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I actually think Bridge Four not been the same will be a good thing for Kaladin. He's been using them as  sort of a crutch,focusing on trying to protect them and keeping them together and I kinda feel it's been getting in the way of him focusing on his problems. Not that it's a bad thing or whatnot

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14 hours ago, Smye said:

WOB - "This is the last we'll see of Rock in the book, I'm afraid. I really hope to be able to do the Rock novella sometime in the next few years to trace his course, but one of the things I forced myself to do in this series is keep the focus on the main storylines and characters." :( Today on Reddit

Rock's arc is one of the best already in Stormlight, partly because we have relatively few POVs from him, yet we have seen him so much from other POVs.

I was hoping he'd have that arc continue past that teary-eyed farewell to Kaladin, but if that was the last passage I read of Rock for several years, storms it was a powerful one.

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