RoW Chapter 12 Discussion

[Mage of Lirigon]

2 minutes ago, robardin said:

Everyone in Bridge Four but Rlain and Dabbid, plus pretty much everybody in Bridge Thirteen after squiring for Teft, plus a bunch of other squires-to-Bridge-Four-guys in other "Bridge" crews, have bonded honorspren, and Dalinar's vision of the Recreance at Feverstone Keep showed legions of Windrunners and Stonewards(?)...

Being a Radiant isn't something rare, though of course there are only so many spren to go around; mostly a matter of opportunity (being around where the spren are congregating) and being worthy. And Adolin sure seems worthy.

Definitely hoping his thing is with Maya, whatever that "thing" turns out to be (full or partial revival).

It's definitely moving in that direction, what with his refusal to abandon Maya for a spren, even though it would make him much more combat effective.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Mage of Lirigon

[Rainier]

24 minutes ago, Scriptorian said:

Dalinar, Lift, Hoid, Zahel, Mraize, Gallant, Taln, Nightblood, the Nightwatcher, Odium

I know this is a silly list, but I want to actually brainstorm.

Dalinar has to be one, but he just demoted Kaladin, so even though Kaladin can't intimidate him, he's useless to Syl at the moment.

Jasnah is mentioned, but she would be stern instead of affable.

Adolin, we saw.

I think Lift would be intimidated by Kaladin, if she's even nearby.

Hoid/Wit would not be intimidated, but he's probably busy at the moment. However, having given Kaladin one gift that was discarded, I don't think he'd be willing to offer another.

Zahel. Ahem, excuse me, what I meant to say was

ZAHEL.

That's better. Yeah, this is the one I wanted to see. This is the one who might be able to relate to Kaladin, but I doubt he'd be able to help. If anyone can know what it means to wield power without being able to protect who you love, it's probably the slightly-immortal worldhopper who killed his own lover to prevent a secret from getting out, that his protege found out anyway. But Zahel is not kind, not understanding, and has little patience. He might have done something very similar to Adolin, but it would not have stopped at the orange wine.

Mraize. Not intimidated, not willing (for free, and you don't want to ask the price).

Gallant is a horse, and not even Kaladin's horse.

Taln is the person absolutely least equipped to support someone else in the entire Cosmere.

Nightblood would happily destroy evil, which in Kaladin's state, might be most of the known universe.

The Nightwatcher is like Mraize. If you could get her, you wouldn't like the price.

 

Who else could there be?

[+Oltux72]

2 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Who else could there be?

Cultivation. That would be monumental.

[+robardin]

1 minute ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

It's definitely moving in that direction, what with his refusal to abandon Maya for a spren, even though it would make him much more combat effective.

Ooh I just thought of something in terms of "Maya revival". Where WoBs have said reviving a dead spren would generally require the original Radiant to re-commit to the Ideals (or to reach the next one) the way that Kaladin did in WoR, or "some extraordinary circumstances" that have never happened, many of us immediately hoped (assumed?) that Adolin would be in such circumstances.

What if one of those were... Being chosen by a spren of the same kind (cultivationspren) but rejecting the bond because he already "had" a cultivationspren, and the "revival" is some kind of spren fusion of the quick and the dead?

[StormingTexan]

This was a an absolutely brutal but beautiful chapter. Brandon is not holding back on the feels early on at all. Adolin is a great friend and I loved the banter between him and Veil even the boob talk. As usual I worry about Shallan though. 

So am i understating this correctly that Rock will be judged by Wit? I somehow do not think Wit will be to harsh on him and cant wait for the novella. Btw does anyone else ever meld Rock with Mihali from the Powder Mage books? 

[StanLemon]

This might be my favorite chapter so far released. Adolin being the best boy, Kal getting some much needed relief, and Shallan's issues being discussed. I hope all goes well with Rock

[+robardin]

Just now, StormingTexan said:

So am i understating this correctly that Rock will be judged by Wit? I somehow do not think Wit will be to harsh on him and cant wait for the novella.

No, I don't think so. Rock has recognized Hoid as the same "powerful, but tricky" afah’liki he mentioned seeing in his youth in the Horneater Peaks back in TWoK, as being "here" (in Urithiru), likely as Jasnah's Wit (that phrase seems like it carries a LOT of weight). How Rock knows about Kaladin receiving, and then losing, Hoid's flute has an untold story, eh?

Besides, where IS that flute? Left back in Sadeas' warcamp when Bridge Four packed up after being ransomed?

[Singer]

Would that we all had friends like Adolin and Syl. 

This whole chapter for me was *I'm not crying, YOU'RE CRYING* 

I really thought Adolin would react more strongly to reading Oathbringer, but maybe there is more there and he's just trying to keep a lid on it.

[Michael Portz]

6 minutes ago, robardin said:

No, I don't think so. Rock has recognized Hoid as the same "powerful, but tricky" afah’liki he mentioned seeing in his youth in the Horneater Peaks back in TWoK, as being "here" (in Urithiru), likely as Jasnah's Wit (that phrase seems like it carries a LOT of weight). How Rock knows about Kaladin receiving, and then losing, Hoid's flute has an untold story, eh?

Besides, where IS that flute? Left back in Sadeas' warcamp when Bridge Four packed up after being ransomed?

Spoiler

 

Wasn't the flute mentioned in the Lift reading?

Quote

An old flute that Wyndle said looked strange to him.

And Brandon confirming (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/412/#e13605):

Quote

Questioner

Are we ever going to know what happened to Kaladin's flute that he lost in [Stormlight] book <two>?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I just did a reading that mentions the flute.

Questioner

I know. I heard that and I was wondering, "Is that?..."

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah that is the flute.

LTUE 2020 (Feb. 15, 2020)

 

 

[StanLemon]

1 minute ago, Singer said:

Would that we all had friends like Adolin and Syl. 

This whole chapter for me was *I'm not crying, YOU'RE CRYING* 

I really thought Adolin would react more strongly to reading Oathbringer, but maybe there is more there and he's just trying to keep a lid on it.

I'm sure there will be an Adolin pov where we will see his internal thoughts. He's had months to get used to it so he's had some time to adjust at least. I hope we'll find out soon

[+robardin]

1 minute ago, Michael Portz said:

  Hide contents

 

Wasn't the flute mentioned in the Lift reading?

And Brandon confirming (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/412/#e13605):

 

 

Ah! No spoilers for me then (even in this Spoiler forum, haha); long ago I decided against listening to the "author readings" which are often out of chapter order and just go by (at best) "early released" chapters like is happening now ahead of the official release.

But I take it this Lift reading is from a soon-to-be-published work, either Dawnshard or Rhythm of War.

[Karger]

20 minutes ago, robardin said:

Besides, where IS that flute? Left back in Sadeas' warcamp when Bridge Four packed up after being ransomed?

Lift's interlude.

Spoiler

Lift has it

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Karger

[Michael Portz]

18 minutes ago, Singer said:

I really thought Adolin would react more strongly to reading Oathbringer, but maybe there is more there and he's just trying to keep a lid on it.

*headscratch* ... well ... I mean ... Adolin was THERE quite some of the time of the Blackthorn and had to live through it. He must have KNOWN at least some of the dark aspects of his dearly loved and venerated father.

[Mistbornwithakitty]

That chaper....hurt my feelings. 

Adolin is literal BEST BOY.  Do I see a bromance on the horizon?  I love the interactions between him, Shallan, and Kaladin.  Such banter, never a dull moment.  Kaladin has such good friends to back him up.  Hopefully they'll keep being there when he needs it most.

My suspicions about Shallan are being proved correct.  She *isn't* as stable as she seems to pretend.  In fact, she may be the opposite of stable.  Intriguing that Radiant said Kaladin makes things better for her...which brings me to my next suspicion.

I think Adolin's going to die in this book.  Just the way Kaladin is admiring him, the way he's saying he's the perfect general, cares about everyone.  It almost sounds like he's eulogizing him already.  Maybe it's a false lead and I'm being duped, but it appears that he's the next to go.  It would make sense and would move forward the plot.  Especially if he sacrificed himself in some way.  That being said, I'm not totally convinced.  What do you guys think?

Lastly, Rock nooo! You really don't know how much you'll miss a character until they say they're leaving.  Ouch.  Hopefully he's treated kindly by his homeland.

[Valigus]

One thing that I find funny about this which really lightened the chapter was when veil and adolin were shipping kaladin, except the fan base instead of going for random people have latched onto leshwi, speaking of which no reference or mention of her here.

i an interested to see how jadnah and kaladins interactions are at this point, they were antagonistic before but that syl considered her makes it seem like they are less so.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Valigus

[Lightspine]

I typically don't do this kind of theory but it's just too tempting.

*Puts tinfoil hat on*

Quote

“Still, a fling couldn’t hurt, right?” Veil said. She nodded her chin toward one of the passing barmaids, a tall young woman with unusually light hair. “What about Hem over there? She’s tall.”

"Unusually light hair" you say? Must be a WORLDHOPPER. And she's tall too, that must mean she's Terris. It's not like the Alethi are tall or anything....

*Removes tinfoil hat*

Okay that's enough crackpot theorizing for me.

This chapter made me feel like I was getting stabbed and tickled at the same time.

Edit: I kept reading and dragged myself further into crackpot territory. Check out this quote

Quote

“She’s attractive,” he said. “But that blouse is terrible on her. I need to tell Marni that the house uniforms here are dreadful. They should at least have two different shades to match different skin tones.”

Does this mean Hem's skin tone is distinct? Someone stop me before I actually start believing she's a Terriswoman.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Lightspine

[Diomedes]

Seems like I predicted this chapter somewhat well two weeks ago 

 That comment by Veil that Kal is into smart girls was really awkward considering she was swooning over him last book.  

Edited September 22, 2020 by Diomedes

[Valigus]

This chapter also made me love syl so much more then I already did, I kinda wanna see syl interacting with adolin or shallan without kaladin there like just having a conversation about kaladin or not it doesn’t matter.

[Cosmical Existence]

I loved this chapter. I think this one and the chapter with Venli are my favourites so far. The interactions between characters, the implications and hints of things to come... I didn't think it was possible but I'm even more excited about Dawnshard than I was before this chapter. Rock has always been one of my favourite characters, and now I have a feeling I'm going to fall in love with his family and their story. And Hoid! I can't wait to see more of him, and Rock seems to know more about him than we do. I wonder what we are going to find out about him from Dawnshard. What does Rock mean by calling him a god? Aldo I think Kaladin should go to the Peaks. 

I liked the interaction between Pattern and Veil, poor Shallan going to have to explain where babies come from... it's going to be close to the level of "No mating!" for Shallan. 

I like it that Radiant is acknowledging that The Three are not doing as good as Veil or Shallan would like everyone to believe. And the fact that she thinks Kal helps is interesting. Though I don't think that Brandon is trying to hint at Shallan and Kaladin are going to be a thing after Adolin dies. Or at least I hope not. I liked their interactions in the previous books, but more as friends rather than potential love interests. 

And Syl is amazing. I love her. She is so smart, and funny, and beautiful, and just... amazing. 

[Innovation]

24 minutes ago, Valigus said:

This chapter also made me love syl so much more then I already did, I kinda wanna see syl interacting with adolin or shallan without kaladin there like just having a conversation about kaladin or not it doesn’t matter.

I just want to see Syl gamble. It is all I have ever wanted. 

[+Bliev]

9 minutes ago, Cosmical Existence said:

I like it that Radiant is acknowledging that The Three are not doing as good as Veil or Shallan would like everyone to believe. And the fact that she thinks Kal helps is interesting. Though I don't think that Brandon is trying to hint at Shallan and Kaladin are going to be a thing after Adolin dies. Or at least I hope not. I liked their interactions in the previous books, but more as friends rather than potential love interests. 

And Syl is amazing. I love her. She is so smart, and funny, and beautiful, and just... amazing. 

So agreed. I do agree with a poster above that I think it seems to be setting Adolin up to die/sacrifice himself at some point this book--and Kal having to let him do so willingly (he has to accept that people get to choose to be protected or not)--I had thought it might be Lirin to play that role for him, but it seems more likely to be Adolin at this point? The question for me would be whether this would be before or after Shallan reckons with her past and the threat it's posing to her stability. BC if it's before...oh dear. No ship with Kal would be able to pull her back from the brink. Right now Adolin is the only thing holding Shallan AND Kaladin together, and while I think the loss of Adolin could be a useful character progression for Kal, it would *not* be that way for Shallan. 

If that happens we might see the first on-screen Radiant to break her oaths and kill her spren in the process as she further devolves into lies and escapism. 

 

[+Wax]

The Sulkstorm returns...!

 

[dgreene196]

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

It's painful true but it's nothing compared to how much the others have suffered to get the cracks in the spiritwebs 

Also he seems to have a much more efficient coping mechanisms

What about watching his wife slowly break down mentally, building barriers, feeling her slip away even when he's holding her?  Or discovering that your father, the man you very nearly idolize as the model of leadership, killed your mother in an act of rage and vengeance?  Or even his determination to hold onto a bond with a dead spren, despite knowing the potential advantages of being a true Radiant.

Adolin is every bit as injured spiritually as many of our other key characters.  He does have better coping mechanisms, but has he experienced enough emotional injury to attract a spren (if that's what spren are interested in?)?  How could the answer be anything but yes?

[Rainier]

4 minutes ago, dgreene196 said:

Or even his determination to hold onto a bond with a dead spren, despite knowing the potential advantages of being a true Radiant.

Adolin is every bit as injured spiritually as many of our other key characters.  

Not to derail, but I think Adolin, if he does revive Maya, is not going to bond her. Think of it this way: if you were Maya, and somehow you were brought back from the nearly dead, why would you go and put yourself in the same situation that got you killed in the first place? No, I think she'll hang around him, but there's no way she's accepting Words from anyone.

That said, remembering those who are forgotten is what he's doing, and that's what Edgedancers do.

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

And she's tall too, that must mean she's Terris. It's not like the Alethi are tall or anything....

Tall by Alethi standards and a world hopper? Just Iri ancestry by any chance?

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

Does this mean Hem's skin tone is distinct? Someone stop me before I actually start believing she's a Terriswoman.

Well, no. If it were unique or nearly so Adolin woud not complain about the uniforms. The expectation would be unreasonable.