RoW Chapter 12 Discussion

[+honorblades]

Just now, Bliev said:

Dalinar told everyone about Evi...etc. etc. lol

I think it's very interesting (and a good sign for the future of the orders) that even after Dalinar reveals the truth about Evi, people still basically worship him in the tower. I was worried that was going to completely destroy his credibility. 

[Karger]

18 minutes ago, Shardsplinter said:

"Rock didn’t have a spren either, but he… had moved on to something else. Kaladin wasn’t sure what it was, but he didn’t call himself a squire."

Some other magic system perhaps?  Maybe savathood in one of the surges?

5 minutes ago, _edgedancer said:

I think it's very interesting (and a good sign for the future of the orders) that even after Dalinar reveals the truth about Evi, people still basically worship him in the tower. I was worried that was going to completely destroy his credibility. 

I mean.  He is still the Blackthorn.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Karger

[+robardin]

So let's also discuss the "who knows what about who by now?" of past events stuff revealed here, and review what has yet to be even hinted at.

The Dalinar confessional that is Oathbringer, plus the fact that Dalinar literally wrote it himself (is now literate), appears to be as yet unreleased yet widely known about and discussed.

That Adolin had confessed to killing Torol Sadeas, though... That is not yet common knowledge.

What about Szeth? Nary a mention yet of the Assassin in White becoming the only Skybreaker Radiant to serve Dalinar, nor what that means in their justice system, or how that's viewed by any allied nations like Azir. Though of course, Yanagawn (né "Gawx") wouldn't even be Prime had Szeth not done The Things.

Well, what about the fact that Szeth did almost all of that under orders from Taravangian? Something Taravangian confessed to Dalinar, even before Szeth might have given that information to him? Yet apparently Dalinar still thinks Taravangian is working with him against Odium (or at least, Taravangian thinks Dalinar thinks that)?

[Rainier]

I'm really sad to see Rock go, and so soon into the book, too. Especially that final goodbye to Kaladin, tears my heart out.

While the scenes with Veil/Radiant are cute, even Adolin knows it can't last forever, and he seems to think it's not even going to last much longer.

Once again, the slow drip of chapters works against me. If I had read this moments after chapter 11, it would have been much better all around. This is the restart in the story that we needed, even if one character's story is just now ending.

[Scriptorian]

Quote

“I needed someone you couldn’t intimidate,” she replied. “That list at best includes three people. And the queen was likely to transform you into a crystal goblet or something.”

My initial reaction was that Syl had made the perfect choice in fetching Adolin...but then Jasnah "Storming" Kohlin was mentioned as an option and now I really want that scene for some reason.

Also "at best" there are three people that aren't intimated by Kaladin? Come on, Syl. You can do better than that. Off the top of my head, there's also: Dalinar, Lift, Hoid, Zahel, Mraize, Gallant, Taln, Nightblood, the Nightwatcher, Odium...The Stormfather doesn't make the list because he's a wuss. I'm just saying, we have more than three options here.

[+robardin]

6 minutes ago, _edgedancer said:

I think it's very interesting (and a good sign for the future of the orders) that even after Dalinar reveals the truth about Evi, people still basically worship him in the tower. I was worried that was going to completely destroy his credibility. 

The man is a walking highstorm who renews spheres and personally overcharges Radiants with Stormlight, leading them in a fight against a Voidbringer army that has conquired Alethkar and Herdaz among many other nations, and nearly destroyed Thaylenah.

I think a lot of past misdeeds, especially those confessed to and repented and many of which were not technically "crimes" but arguably "acts of war" done in wartime which in Alethi culture has high value, can be... Overlooked with that factor.

I mean, Sadeas didn't even think Dalinar had done anything excessive in burning all of Rathalas at the time it happened, knowing what he did at the time. Sure, Evi's death was tragic at a personal level, but "she brought it on herself" was surely his (Sadeas') POV on the subject; casting its blame on the people of Rathalas was actually convenient moral cover for the act as "Dalinar was temporarily mad with anger and grief" when in fact they (Sadeas and Dalinar) had been willing to do it over the attempted assassination of Dalinar and frame-up job of Sadeas (which two acts were probably "OK" under Alethi codes of warfare, just as killing the younger Tanalan as a boy was actually expected).

I wonder if Dalinar will include an account of his rejection of Odium in his book. Imagine if Moash were to hear someone reading about Dalinar saying to Odium, You. Cannot. Have. My. Pain.... I will accept responsibility for what I have done. (Probably reflect, "I could never forgive myself" the way that Amaram did, who was actually present when it happened.)

[Pcheinze]

1 minute ago, Scriptorian said:

Also "at best" there are three people that aren't intimated by Kaladin? Come on, Syl. You can do better than that. Off the top of my head, there's also: Dalinar, Lift, Hoid, Zahel, Mraize, Gallant, Taln, Nightblood, the Nightwatcher, Odium...The Stormfather doesn't make the list because he's a wuss. I'm just saying, we have more than three options here.

And of course Stick.

But on the real, this chapter had so much emotion was fun and a gut punch all wrapped up into one.

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Scriptorian said:

there are three people that aren't intimated by Kaladin?

Dalinar

Jasnah

Adolin.

1 minute ago, Scriptorian said:

Lift

Good luck finding her.

1 minute ago, Scriptorian said:

Hoid

Same

2 minutes ago, Scriptorian said:

Zahel

OK I grant you that.

2 minutes ago, Scriptorian said:

Mraize

Who Syl does not know.  Anyway he probably is intimidated by Kaladin.  He is just Iyatil's henchmen.

2 minutes ago, Scriptorian said:

Gallant, Taln, Nightblood, the Nightwatcher

Don't count.

3 minutes ago, Scriptorian said:

Odium

Is probably terrified.

[Shardsplinter]

This episode was so well written. It's incredible how it torn me apart on the inside, but at the same time I couldn't stop laughing. It's a feeling I didn't thought something I read could give me. When Kal breaks in his room and remembers Moash's words I literally felt overwhelming pain and almost wanted to stop reading; but then throughout the rest of the chapter, though I could still feel Kal's sorrow, Adolin and Veil were such a comic relief and just a storming light of fresh air (if that even makes sense)

TL;DR The episode just seems to work really well. I know some people hadn't like the tone of Kal's chapters, but this was a very Smart way of dealing with his depression and still have a very fun chapter.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Shardsplinter

[+robardin]

30 minutes ago, Potus said:

For a brief moment when Adolin mentioned that Dakhnah was a scribe for her father, I thought Kal would look over and see Tarah. I don't recall him actually looking over so there may still be a chance! Though one would think he would know her last name 

If Adolin had courted her in the past, I'm sure Dakhah is a lighteyes. In fact he mentioned that she's the daughter of one of Dalinar's generals. So yeah. Not Tarah.

[Rogueshar]

I loved this chapter. It warmed my little bisexual heart to see Veil talk about women in a way that clearly shows that she's attracted to them, while also knowing that Shallan and Adolin are still disgustingly in love. Also I love Adolin and Veil trying to set Kaladin up. And Adolin won't give up Maya even though he knows it might ruin his chance at becoming a radiant.

I think this is one of those chapters that I will come back to and re-read just because I have a feeling it is going to be the last cozy night and time together for all of them before the rust hits the fan.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Rogueshar

[Scriptorian]

Nightblood: "Do you know what always makes me feel better?"

Kaladin: "I really don't care."

Nightblood: "Destroying evil!"

Syl: "Maybe I should have gotten Jasnah instead..."

[+robardin]

7 minutes ago, Scriptorian said:

My initial reaction was that Syl had made the perfect choice in fetching Adolin...but then Jasnah "Storming" Kohlin was mentioned as an option and now I really want that scene for some reason.

Also "at best" there are three people that aren't intimated by Kaladin? Come on, Syl. You can do better than that. Off the top of my head, there's also: Dalinar, Lift, Hoid, Zahel, Mraize, Gallant, Taln, Nightblood, the Nightwatcher, Odium...The Stormfather doesn't make the list because he's a wuss. I'm just saying, we have more than three options here.

Well, three people who Syl knows about, who are in Urithiru, and who would come to help deal with Kaladin.

When you add that third factor that really eliminates Dalinar as well (he's the one who put him in the funk with the "reassignment"), Jasnah... Well let's just say, Adolin was absolutely the right choice.

So I suppose Shallaradiveil is the third on on that list?

[+robardin]

Oh, and can someone explain (or is it unknown) what Shard(s) daughter Cord has got?

Rock mentioned that "these Shards" (plural) that he'd won from Amaram are collecting dust in a box waiting for him to take them back to the Peaks. So that would be the full set of Plate and Blade, the one that Heleran had originally borne, and the Plate originally from Sadeas.

The other Shardblade he'd won from Amaram, which was Oathbringer given to Sadeas to ransom the bridgemen, he returned to Dalinar.

Has Cord become a Radiant? Or has Dalinar given Oathbringer to Cord (or given it back to Rock who gave it to her)?

I don't think we know either yet, right?

[Person]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

[Odium]

Is probably terrified.

I honestly feel bad for Odium... I would be scared out of my mind if I had to face Kaladin. Even if you are the Shard of Hatred, (Passion, whatever) you stand NO CHANCE of beating Kal.

 

I really hope Kaladin finds Tarah.

[Mage of Lirigon]

Adolin is too precious for words. Everyone should have a friend like him. That segment between him, Veil and Kaladin really reminded me of a sitcom, though. 

I really hope that this isn't the last time we see the idea of mental health as an actual medical discipline get floated about. maybe one day, once the Odium problem is solved, kaladin can become the father of modern psychology on Roshar.

[Chana]

Considering that people left and right seem to be bonding spren nowadays I wouldn't say that there is that much trauma that needs to occur for one to become radiant and I'm pretty sure having as crazy childhood as Adolin had qualifies for it. Not only did his mother die, it drove his father into heavy alcoholism and then he learns that actually his father is responsible for his mums death. Would traumatize me heavily.I think that just we have a sampling bias in the fact that we just followed radiants with extreme trauma we think everyone has that and that might turn out not to be true.
Though I kinda not want Adolin to become a Radiant just cause then basically everyone would be radiants. Hope he get to revive Maya and do his own thing with her.

Outside of that this chapter was so amazing I forgot just how much I love Adolin and his shenanigans, couldn't stop  smiling throughout the chapter. 

[Chana]

5 minutes ago, robardin said:

Oh, and can someone explain (or is it unknown) what Shard(s) daughter Cord has got?

Rock mentioned that "these Shards" (plural) that he'd won from Amaram are collecting dust in a box waiting for him to take them back to the Peaks. So that would be the full set of Plate and Blade, the one that Heleran had originally borne, and the Plate originally from Sadeas.

The other Shardblade he'd won from Amaram, which was Oathbringer given to Sadeas to ransom the bridgemen, he returned to Dalinar.

Has Cord become a Radiant? Or has Dalinar given Oathbringer to Cord (or given it back to Rock who gave it to her)?

I don't think we know either yet, right?

I think this is going to be explained in the Dawnshard novella

[+robardin]

1 minute ago, Chana said:

I think this is going to be explained in the Dawnshard novella

Ahhh, right. Something about finding a cache of shards there was mentioned in one of the earlier RoW chapters, I believe? And I guess Cord was along for the trip.

Still, interesting that Rock considers her as the first Shardbearer from their people, when he'd already won two Blades and a set of Plate by then. Sure he'd them in a box, but they were his... I guess it doesn't count until you actually "bear" the Shards, eh?

Edited September 22, 2020 by robardin

[Mage of Lirigon]

4 minutes ago, Chana said:

Considering that people left and right seem to be bonding spren nowadays I wouldn't say that there is that much trauma that needs to occur for one to become radiant and I'm pretty sure having as crazy childhood as Adolin had qualifies for it. Not only did his mother die, it drove his father into heavy alcoholism and then he learns that actually his father is responsible for his mums death. Would traumatize me heavily.I think that just we have a sampling bias in the fact that we just followed radiants with extreme trauma we think everyone has that and that might turn out not to be true.

People have gotten into the habit of thinking that Kaladin and Shallan level trauma is the benchmark for Radiancy. If it was, then pretty much no one would be Radiants.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Mage of Lirigon

[Georion]

This was beautiful. I have no words

[+robardin]

Just now, Mage of Lirigon said:

People have gotten into the habit of thinking that Kaladin and Shallan level trauma is the benchmark for Radiancy. if it was, then pretty much no one would be Radiants.

Yeah there are numerous WoBs that what we - and even some people in-world, possibly including Jasnah - think is required in terms of "cracking the soul" (Kaladin and Shallan level emotional trauma) for the Nahel bond is not quite right.

[Energy Surge]

2 minutes ago, robardin said:

Oh, and can someone explain (or is it unknown) what Shard(s) daughter Cord has got?

Rock mentioned that "these Shards" (plural) that he'd won from Amaram are collecting dust in a box waiting for him to take them back to the Peaks. So that would be the full set of Plate and Blade, the one that Heleran had originally borne, and the Plate originally from Sadeas.

The other Shardblade he'd won from Amaram, which was Oathbringer given to Sadeas to ransom the bridgemen, he returned to Dalinar.

Has Cord become a Radiant? Or has Dalinar given Oathbringer to Cord (or given it back to Rock who gave it to her)?

I don't think we know either yet, right?

They mentioned in an earlier RoW chapter they found shards in Aimia. And I believe they said that's where Cord's shards came from. Dawnshard novella will most likely answer this question more fully.

[+robardin]

5 minutes ago, Chana said:

Though I kinda not want Adolin to become a Radiant just cause then basically everyone would be radiants. Hope he get to revive Maya and do his own thing with her.

Everyone in Bridge Four but Rlain and Dabbid, plus pretty much everybody in Bridge Thirteen after squiring for Teft, plus a bunch of other squires-to-Bridge-Four-guys in other "Bridge" crews, have bonded honorspren, and Dalinar's vision of the Recreance at Feverstone Keep showed legions of Windrunners and Stonewards(?)...

Being a Radiant isn't something rare, though of course there are only so many spren to go around; mostly a matter of opportunity (being around where the spren are congregating) and being worthy. And Adolin sure seems worthy.

Definitely hoping his thing is with Maya, whatever that "thing" turns out to be (full or partial revival).

[Govir]

1 hour ago, Potus said:

For a brief moment when Adolin mentioned that Dakhnah was a scribe for her father, I thought Kal would look over and see Tarah. I don't recall him actually looking over so there may still be a chance! Though one would think he would know her last name 

I really thought it was going to be Tarah before they gave the name, and I did think we'd at least see Tarah in the bar (maybe in Dakhnah's group). But I'm ok with not seeing her as well.