Steel is the best metal, Change My Mind

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

I was thinking about compounding, and steel crossed my mind. As one of the most useful metals to store an attribute in, as well as one of the most useful allomantic metals to burn, I think steel might be the best metal to be able to compound. You get the power of a coinshot, which is largely accepted to be one of the most useful (and versatile) allomantic power, and also you get to compound speed, which Sazed says in the first book is "one of the most difficult attributes to store up." Besides that, steel is really easy to acquire in large amounts, so you'd practically never have to go without. (Admittedly, you would have to worry about having the right alloy, or you could give yourself a headache when you burn it, but that's a minor trouble.) So you get basically unlimited speed, as well as a limited form of flying/telekinesis

I've made my case. Now I invite you to make yours. If you think there's another metal that's more useful to compound, then 1) What is it, and 2) Why is it useful?

[Lunamor]

While steel is a really cool metal, personally I think that gold is the most useful because it makes you basically invincible. 

[+Invocation]

I have to agree with @Lunamor on this. Steel is cool, but even if you move fast you're still burning all of those calories that you then have to replenish just to be Sonic for a second. Gold makes you heal fast (so you can potentially donate organs and grow them back immediately) and just in general much better than the other metals. Steel is a close second, though.

[+Ark1002]

I'm not gonna say it's the best, but the most broken is easily iron compounding. With it, you can get infinite weight. When you couple that with iron, which gets more powerful based on weight, you could pull planes from the sky, destroy huge portions of a city, or worse.

The reason it's not the best is that it hits you in the process, and you'll get crushed into the ground, so it sorta sucks

[HSuperLee]

The best for what?

[Frustration]

Bronze, I know what you're doing, and I never have to sleep.

or Lerasium,

Or Atium.

[I Am A Fish]

22 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

The best for what?

The best in general, most versatile, most useful, most destructive.

Honestly I agree with @Frustration probably lerasium, atium is a close second.

The best non-god metal is probably gold.

[Koloss17]

Tin, my friend. heightened senses is SO useful in a fight, as well as on a daily basis. F-tin is even better. You can store senses you don’t want, as well as storing secret stuff, such as steel-sight, atium, electrum, and gold shadows, and bronze sense. That is crazy! Not to mention that you can reverse compound pewter as well. That makes half of any allomantic metals reverse compoundable with tin.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Koloss17

[Dunkum]

Steel is plausibly the most useful in a fight, that or Gold, but lets be honest, how often do you get into fights?  most useful in a fight does me just about no good.  If we are assuming compounding then Gold is still a strong contender, even with the cost of Gold, i guarantee burning a couple goldminds is cheaper than health insurance and doctors, not to mention much faster than actual available treatments.  Someone upthread mentioned Bronze, and not having to sleep would have some benefits.  for one thing you essentially add several hours to every day; speaking personally i hate doing housework after regular work because it feels like a waste of my leisure hours - an issue that would all but vanish if i suddenly had 8 more leisure hours per day.  just that extra time on its own probably puts this at 2nd place for me.  the rest are mostly only more useful in very specific scenarios.  you'll note that I didn't even mention the allomantic powers of these metals and thats because most of them are substantially less useful than their ferruchemic counterpart.  bendalloy and the emotional metals might have some value day to day, pewter and tin too, but their ferruchemy is clsoe enough to their allomancy that its irrelevant

[StanLemon]

When it comes to compounding I think gold is the best just because while gold is expensive you can basically stay in perfect health forever and survive any accidents or bad situations you run into. And as was pointed out, a few Goldminds here and there may very well be cheaper than all the medical expenses that build up. 

That said, I fully agree that steel compounding would be the most useful of them all. The mobility and speed even in every day life could prove fantastic 

[Aspiring Writer]

On 9/21/2020 at 1:20 PM, Ark1002 said:

I'm not gonna say it's the best, but the most broken is easily iron compounding. With it, you can get infinite weight. When you couple that with iron, which gets more powerful based on weight, you could pull planes from the sky, destroy huge portions of a city, or worse.

The reason it's not the best is that it hits you in the process, and you'll get crushed into the ground, so it sorta sucks

I've thought about that combination, too, and I think It's partially a matter of skill of pulling on whatever you want, reducing your weight again, and pulling yourself away, so I think it could work, though you need to keep on your toes.

 

As for my pick, if we're including god metals, Atium. Seeing the future and Immortality? HELL YES. And if we're not including god metals, I'll pick gold, as I will be able to heal certain things and conditions as I age, like my teeth or back. Basically, take away the negative effects of aging.

[Halyo_Alex]

Pewter compounding is the most broadly useful for doing general "real life" work, because of A-Pewter's general physical enhancements and F-Pewter's ability to increase your muscle mass. You could be so useful in so many occupations that would pay a pretty penny for someone with those capabilities...

(This goes doubly so if Reverse Compounding is as I theorize: being able to store the normal Allomantic output of a metal inside the matching metalmind. So you could tap huge amounts of Allomantic Pewter to do incredible feats like surviving being hit by a boulder or something.)

Edited September 27, 2020 by Halyo_Alex
Fixing grammar.

[Frustration]

6 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Pewter compounding is the most broadly useful for doing general "real life" work, because of A-Pewter's general physical enhancements and F-Pewter's ability to increase your muscle mass. You could be so useful in so many occupations that would pay a pretty penny for someone with those capabilities...

(This goes doubly so if Reverse Compounding is as I theorize: being able to store the normal Allomantic output of a metal inside the matching metalmind. So you could tap huge amounts of Allomantic Pewter to do incredible feats like surviving being hit by a boulder or something.)

Pewter can do that anyway

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Allomantic pewter strength can be stored in a metalmind, but it's probably easier to just Compound.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Frustration said:

Pewter can do that anyway

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Allomantic pewter strength can be stored in a metalmind, but it's probably easier to just Compound.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

Well the strength bit, sure. But I'm talking like the sense of balance and stamina also.

Still, good to know.

[+robardin]

On 9/21/2020 at 2:36 PM, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

...you get basically unlimited speed, as well as a limited form of flying/telekinesis.

...If you think there's another metal that's more useful to compound, then 1) What is it, and 2) Why is it useful?

Well...

On 9/21/2020 at 4:30 PM, HSuperLee said:

The best for what?

This has to be considered; is this in the context of me as a Twinborn resident in Scadrial Era 2, attempting to become a superhero in our world, or even just me being me as I am today IRL but boom!, I'm given the gift of being a real-life Twinborn in one of sixteen metals?

I usually imagine these things in the last context...

While the allure of compounded gold = infinite health, heal from and survive practically anything, is pretty attractive, it could also be hard to keep under wraps, if that were something you were concerned with. A spectacular case of emergency regeneration ("...he got hit by a car and just regrew his legs!") would avoid you a trip to the hospital or the morgue, but also get you a trip to some government labs or something, eeek. (Maybe not the US government... Maybe... But you'd probably get "studied" in a way you might not like...)

Me, I'd take zinc. Infinite mental speed on tap would just make me seem really brilliant, which is plausible, and being a Rioter could be something few would notice was due to you if you did it skillfully, the way Breeze does with his Soothing.

If I were to be a Twinborn in Era 2 Elendel, well, as you say compounded iron could be pretty terrifying, especially with airships being a thing. (We already saw Wax basically do this while using the Bands, to be able to hold an airship in place or even ripping it apart in midair.) But what would you use it for in daily life, or even for income, if you weren't already a House Lord with business interests?

Let's think about that - you're transported to Elendel as a Compounding Twinborn of your choice, and no other means of support. What combo would feed and clothe you, and more?

Feruchemical attributes all have internal effects (since they originate in tapping metalminds to regain one's own stored attributes), so monetizing the effects of Compounding would require something an outcome valuable to others or in service to others being infinitely available.

Tin (senses) = A spy whose use of tin can't be detected by a Seeker and whose metalminds won't run out?

Pewter (physical strength) = well, Hulking Out is never going to go out of style for a bodyguard...

Copper (memory) = unclear what compounding memory can do, especially without unsealed metalminds being a thing

Bronze (wakefulness) = so you don't have to sleep. What are you going to do with that, become a guard?

Zinc (metal speed) = you could be a really clever calculator? Oddsmaker?

Brass (Body heat) = unlikely, unless you could harness yourself as a dynamo of some kind

Iron (weight) = As you mentioned, you could be a human black hole. Demolition Man!

Steel (speed) = You'd be The Flash. And a Coinshot. seems very monetizable on both fronts.

OK I'll go with steel in that calculation.

Edited September 29, 2020 by robardin

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

On 9/29/2020 at 0:05 PM, robardin said:

well, Hulking Out is never going to go out of style for a bodyguard...

Okay, you're all going to hate me for saying this because it's just cringe-inducing for so many reasons, but . . . A brute (pewter ferring) man getting a job as a male stripper. And while it's uncomfortable to think about, I'm sure there would be a certain market for female brutes as well. Although that business would call for rioters above everything else.

Unsavory jokes aside, I agree with the zinc argument. Incredible mental speed is just generally useful, and rioting emotions can really help you get things you want. That being said, the usefulness of mental speed is limited by a person's natural intelligence as well as their critical thinking skills. This is one of the biggest caveats of zinc; In the real world, intelligence is extremely valuable precisely because it can't be taught. You're born with it. A sparker (zinc ferring) does have a lot of potential, but only to the extent that their mind is already brilliant. An example of this is in a Wax and Wayne scene (I forget which book) when 

Spoiler

Wax's butler sets off a bomb in Wax's house intending to kill him. Wayne throws up a speed bubble and they start talking about how to escape. Wayne suggests that Wax should use a steel push to destroy the opposite wall and they can get outside safely that way. Wax reminds him of the laws of physics, and then Wayne tells him to just tap iron, making himself heavy enough to destroy the well-built wall. Wax argues that making himself that heavy would probably destroy the floor, at which point he realizes that would be a good thing.

In this case, they're using an allomantic speed bubble, not feruchemical mental speed, but the effect is similar. Wax was smart enough to think of the floor as the solution to his problem, and the combination of magic and an (arguably) intelligent friend to bounce ideas off of helped him get there in time. However, not everyone is as clever as Waxillium Ladrian. Just the abilities of a sparker do not grant one any more creativity. I do remember Vin remarking on atium enhancing her reflexes as well as its main effect of showing her the future. Since atium is a god metal though, I don't know that we can count on zinc feruchemy doing anything similar.

Then also, let's consider the practicality of such a skill. Of course, rioting is great and we've already seen it explored pretty much to its potential, so let's continue to ignore that aspect of compounding zinc. As has been said, very few of us ever find ourselves in a dangerous scenario, much less a fight. However, going back to the point about monetization of metalborn powers, I think zinc has a lot of potential. There are a fair number of jobs that involve dangerous scenarios. Law enforcement, firefighting, search & rescue, and paramedics come to mind. Then you might consider spy work. All these require quick thinking, and for most of them being a rioter would help too. Any military job - infantry, pilot sailor - at any rank - private to captain to general - can benefit from the abilities of a sparker.

So maybe in our world, a zinc compounder could make a great impact. Then again, it sure does sound nice to be able to fly.

[+robardin]

13 hours ago, Narcoleptic Axolotl said:

Okay, you're all going to hate me for saying this because it's just cringe-inducing for so many reasons, but . . . A brute (pewter ferring) man getting a job as a male stripper. And while it's uncomfortable to think about, I'm sure there would be a certain market for female brutes as well. Although that business would call for rioters above everything else.

 

...the usefulness of mental speed is limited by a person's natural intelligence as well as their critical thinking skills. This is one of the biggest caveats of zinc; In the real world, intelligence is extremely valuable precisely because it can't be taught. You're born with it.

...going back to the point about monetization of metalborn powers, I think zinc has a lot of potential. There are a fair number of jobs that involve dangerous scenarios. Law enforcement, firefighting, search & rescue, and paramedics come to mind. Then you might consider spy work. All these require quick thinking, and for most of them being a rioter would help too. Any military job - infantry, pilot sailor - at any rank - private to captain to general - can benefit from the abilities of a sparker.

So maybe in our world, a zinc compounder could make a great impact. Then again, it sure does sound nice to be able to fly.

Not sure that a Brute stripper would be so in demand as you might imagine. A toned physique is generally more attractive than something like what Bugs Bunny faced in "The Crusher":

 

 

(That is always what I picture when a Feruchemist massively taps a pewtermind :D)

And in our world, being able to fly (and doing so) would attract a lot of attention. As would being a human firearm. Yes, you'd be a real live superhero; but my suspicion is, unless you truly mastered the masked identity thing with a normal human "civilian" front on a long-term basis, one would find being the only one in the world like this exhausting, or (much more likely) becoming pressured in various carrot-and-stick ways to become the agent or tool of a government, with other governments out either to steal you or to eliminate you as an asset.

Finally, tapping a zincmind not only speeds up your thoughts, but also may allow you to reach conclusions you would not have otherwise reached. Kind of like how a combustion engine with a turbo is using the exhaust (waste) power from your engine to feed back into it with a boost. Tapping a zincmind is adding mental horsepower that in theory you stored there earlier at the cost of being underpowered. Where you'd have "run out of mental horsepower" to push up the allegorical hill, the boost now got you over.

Of course there is an upper limit to how much boost you get; continuing with the turbo example, a car with a small displacement engine with a turbo may now match one that's 50% larger in horsepower for a given use, and thus be able to accelerate or to go faster than it would ever have done without the turbo, but not in all use cases and it would never be able to match the pulling power of a tractor.

As another concrete example of zinc's upper limit, Scadrial's first ever Compounder - Rashek, the Lord Ruler - had access to a nigh-infinite zincmind and about a thousand years to think about how to defeat Ruin, and in the end still gave up and resorted to just canning food for survival bunkers. You still can't figure out stuff based on what you don't know.

Edited October 14, 2020 by robardin

[Shard of Reading]

I'm just going to say componding nisricol would be by far the best in just about every situation.

You could do just about anything and the gambling opportunities are limitless.

[Dunkum]

3 hours ago, robardin said:

That is always what I picture when a Feruchemist massively taps a pewtermind

it's perfect

[Frustration]

On 10/14/2020 at 7:59 AM, Shard of Reading said:

I'm just going to say componding nisricol would be by far the best in just about every situation.

You could do just about anything and the gambling opportunities are limitless.

Are you thinking of Chromium? because fortune is future sight.

[Shard of Reading]

20 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Are you thinking of Chromium? because fortune is future sight.

No. I was thinking of unlimited luck. (Like mat)

I might have gotten the metal wrong.

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Shard of Reading said:

No. I was thinking of unlimited luck. (Like mat)

I might have gotten the metal wrong.

It's chromium, and it isn't luck

at least it's not likely to be.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Frustration

[Shard of Reading]

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It's chromium, and it isn't luck

at least it's not likely to be.

It is chromium and here it is what it says in the coppermind article.

Quote

Compounding[edit]

A chromium Compounder would be able to use chromium to have a nearly infinite supply of fortune and luck.^[8]

 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Shard of Reading said:

It is chromium and here it is what it says in the coppermind article.

 

here is the coppermind on fortune

Quote

The precise nature of Fortune and how it functions and is used, is currently unclear. Fortune has been described as "luck" by less cosmere-aware groups, such as the Terris three centuries after the Catacendre.^[3] However, it is clear from other individuals that are more cosmere-aware that Fortune is more than simple luck. It's a way of knowing things you would not know otherwise,^[4] and a way in which one can see the future.^[2] It is implied that Fortune is a thing one can access^[5] and draw upon.^[6] Someone drawing upon Fortune can lead to events that appear to be coincidences.^[6]

The Ars Arcanum says fortune, not luck

[Shard of Reading]

Just now, Frustration said:

here is the coppermind on fortune

The Ars Arcanum says fortune, not luck

Alright. It's still the coolest.