RoW Chapter 11 Discussion

[Jofwu]

Here's a discussion thread on RoW Chapter 11 You can read it here: https://www.tor.com/2020/09/15/read-rhythm-of-war-by-brandon-sanderson-chapter-eleven/

A new chapter will go live every Tuesday at 9am Eastern.

[king of nowhere]

so, iron attracts, and they don't yet know the metal to repel... wanna bet it's steel?

apparently they didn't figure out the connections between pushing and pulling and pure metal and it alloy

[Govir]

My immediate thought is that the epigraph reinforces my thought that the previous epigraph contains an error, specifically that iron and steel mentioned in chapter 10 should have been pewter and tin (i.e. the two metals being talked about separately prior to that statement).

I haven't read the rest of the chapter yet.

Edit: Further thought, if they knew iron and steel could "reverse polarity" and they knew iron could be used as an attractor, they should have tried steel as the repeller.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Govir

[Karger]

9 minutes ago, Govir said:

Edit: Further thought, if they knew iron and steel could "reverse polarity" and they knew iron could be used as an attractor, they should have tried steel as the repeller.

Agreed.

Venli's plan seems risky.  It also seems that something important just happened.  This seems like a reference to Navani's work but what else could it be?  What just happened that was so important/dangerous.

Also good to confirm Venli has cohesion and workform happens with gravitationspren.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Karger

[Agent34]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

Agreed.

Venli's plan seems risky.  It also seems that something important just happened.  This seems like a reference to Navani's work but what else could it be?  What just happened that was so important/dangerous.

Perhaps Navani's penpal is an unexpected third party to this conflict.

[Karger]

Just now, Agent34 said:

Perhaps Navani's penpal is an unexpected third party to this conflict.

So whoever is "keeping score" is worried?  What about?

[Agent34]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

So whoever is "keeping score" is worried?  What about?

Any deviation to a plan can be cause for worry.

[Karger]

Just now, Agent34 said:

Any deviation to a plan can be cause for worry.

Sure but whose plan and what deviation? 

[Innovation]

I think whatever just happened was the plans for the ”dangerous operation” which the Fused received via meditation. 

Also, there are Fused that can take the shapes of others? Are those the progression Fused or the Lightweaving Fused? 

[Karger]

Just now, Innovation said:

Also, there are Fused that can take the shapes of others? Are those the progression Fused or the Lightweaving Fused? 

I think Venli is referencing the Lightweaving fused.  We have seen them before.

1 minute ago, Innovation said:

I think whatever just happened was the plans for the ”dangerous operation” which the Fused received via meditation. 

Oooh.  But what is it?

[Agent34]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

Sure but whose plan and what deviation? 

The plan is likely Odium's since this all came about because of Leshwi's comment and as for the deviation if I knew I wouldn't be discussing like this  if it's the Sibling, as some have theorised, maybe they were suppose to stay asleep.

 

2 minutes ago, Innovation said:

I think whatever just happened was the plans for the ”dangerous operation” which the Fused received via meditation. 

Also, there are Fused that can take the shapes of others? Are those the progression Fused or the Lightweaving Fused? 

Probably the Lightweaving Fused. Progression isn't really suited for shapeshifting.

[Infinity Sliver]

Could the spren that represent an entire people be the lightspren?

Edited September 15, 2020 by Infinitysliver
misspelling

[Karger]

Just now, Agent34 said:

if it's the Sibling, as some have theorised, maybe they were suppose to stay asleep.

We know that something happened.  We also know or can deduce that Odium has some idea of what.  However I am not sure we can conclude that he was actually the one who started this.  His actions seem too knee jerk. 

[Agent34]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

We know that something happened.  We also know or can deduce that Odium has some idea of what.  However I am not sure we can conclude that he was actually the one who started this.  His actions seem too knee jerk. 

Someone on Discord suggested that perhaps it's related to Moash/Vyre and what happened to him. Renarin's situation could have gotten out.

[Pattern]

Finally we got a Venli chapter. And we see her working toward the Willshaper oaths - like

"I will seek freedom"

Freeing singers from Odium's influence and the domination of humans looks like a difficult task, though...

[Karger]

Just now, Agent34 said:

Someone on Discord suggested that perhaps it's related to Moash/Vyre and what happened to him. Renarin's situation could have gotten out.

That is a good guess.

[Friendshipspren]

Oh my god , oh my god , omigod. 

 

Wow , Rebellion is the spiritual ideal of the willshapers as interpreted by Venli. 

Yesssssss.

To Rebel .

That should be the title of the prologue if Venli is the next pov of the night of Gavilar's Assassination. 

[Govir]

12 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Also, there are Fused that can take the shapes of others? Are those the progression Fused or the Lightweaving Fused? 

They are known as mavset-im, Those Ones of Masks. Mask implies a covering, which to me reinforces the thought it is a Lightweaving Fused (which we've seen in a Rysn interlude).

[Gderu]

7 minutes ago, Karger said:

Also good to confirm Venli has cohesion and workform happens with gravitationspren.

What? Since when have we assumed that workform happens with gravitationspren? That seems like a completely random choice to me. Maybe you could say workform is down to earth? lol, I don't see why it would be gravitationspren.

I wonder what the dangerous thing that happened here is. It could be the person contacting Navani, but the distances don't seem to match. Navani received the message when arriving at the Shattered Plains. Hearthstone is much closer to Kholinar than to the Shattered Plains. Unless Fused fly much slower than Radiants, I don't see how the times would match. I think that this is the beginning of the dangerous operation that was hinted at in the book descriptions.

In general, I really enjoyed this chapter. Venli was a very refreshing viewpoint after the long weeks of Kaladin and depression and gloom. Its interesting how much she thinks about autonomy and letting people make their choices. Timbre seems to have influenced her much in the past year. Also, only now do I realize how much sense it makes that the Willshaper would be a parsh/singer/whatever we're calling them. Because the willshapers focus so much on autonomy and free choice, its obvious that they might take issue with the forms, or at least that there will be an interesting point there. Also, I wonder what Venli means by what she says at the end to Shumin. Could it be that all Willshaper spren are going to be bonding singers instead of humans? If so, why have we not heard about there being no Willshapers from the humans so far?

I wonder if Venli might meet the Shadesmar envoy to the Honorspren. That could be the opening to discussions between her and our MCs.

[Nathrangking]

Wow what a chapter. Venli, you are a gem. You are more courageous than you admit. However, you will be taken on a journey I think to discover that not all human are as you say. You are indeed coming along nicely as a Willshaper,  but you have ways to go. Leshwi, what is your Kaladin fascination? You worry that you will not fight him again? What is your angle? Spren that are willing to give the singers a chance could be light spren as mentioned above. Couldn't it also be the dustbringer spren perhaps? They might see the potential in renewing a bond which allow the to take things apart, but maintain a lack of trust in humans. Singers taking human customs!! Nice. We also have a name for the large Fused who bit the dust and Leshwi genuinely seems to dislike him. Her telling Kaladin to save the humans that were being attacked may not have been a ploy after all.

6 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

Someone on Discord suggested that perhaps it's related to Moash/Vyre and what happened to him. Renarin's situation could have gotten out.

6 minutes ago, Karger said:

That is a good guess.

What if Sja- Anat has been found out? The source of Renarin's ability to do this must be a source of annoyance to Odium. He may start asking questions and if he does things could get interesting in a hurry.

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, Gderu said:

What? Since when have we assumed that workform happens with gravitationspren? That seems like a completely random choice to me. Maybe you could say workform is down to earth? lol, I don't see why it would be gravitationspren.

Oh no I never theorized that it is just good to know what workform does.  Two separate clauses. 

3 minutes ago, Gderu said:

Unless Fused fly much slower than Radiants, I

They do.  Also they could have stopped on the way.  We don't know they came here direct.

Just now, Nathrangking said:

What if Sja- Anat has been found out? The source of Renarin's ability to do this must be a source of annoyance to Odium. He may start asking questions and if he does things could get interesting in a hurry.

Maybe?  Odium must be somewhat aware of Renarin from before now.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Karger

[Honorless]

1) yup, they might not know of copper fabrials if they don't know steel, iron pulls & steel pushes

1.5) congrats to those who predicted this would be a Venli chapter 

2) "Thunderclasts and Unmade"? Thunderclasts are considered to be above the Fused?

3) confirmation of Dalinar's "hunch" of nine types (called brands, apparently) of Fused. Moash had also counted 9 types of Fused in OB, Ch 121

4) okay, so apparently the Fused don't take over bodies perfectly. The original gender remains, but carapace patterns change

5) ah, so the looking into the Cognitive comes from being a Willshaper

6) that's the most complex communication we've seen via the Rhythms

7) title of He Who Quiets? 

8) It's difficult when you only have a conquering culture and a dark regime in your past to emulate, it's nice to see the real world dilemma reflected

9) Ah, such a thematic resonance between her situation and her Order. Volition. Agency.

10) both Voidlight and Stormlight! Actually, now that I think about it, yeah, but that still took me off guard 

11) I think that we now have a name for the voidspren that detected usage of (most) of the Surges: secretspren, presumably Corrupted secretspren.

So Lightweaving and peeking into the Shadesmar does not draw them... and wow she's good at it, unlike Shallan

12) Another type of Fused! The Masked Ones. They can assume the forms of others. This would be the Lightweaver Fused? We met them in OB, Rysn's interlude when one of them took the form of a Thaylen guard in order to steal the perfect gemstone

13) gravitationspren for Workform? So... just hardier, I guess

14) with Moash, Kaladin and now Venli, looks like Leshwi really will be a major player going forwards

15) Venli's quite practical, and yeah, I don't see many spren willing to Bond with Singers

16) So Timbre wasn't alone in this... she's representing other spren. Presumably not a certain type of spren given that we've met her kind, her father, to be exact.

17) Cliffhanger!? Wonder what Leshwi sensed...

Edited October 5, 2020 by Honorless

[Friendshipspren]

So it's a new attribute to be able to use both voidlight and stormlight. 

Huh , chimes in well with the willshapers love of novelty and oddity. 

Hey is renarin the same ? Could it be that he hasn't been able to unlock his abilities properly cause he requires voidlight for that ? 

Or perhaps both voidlight and stormlight simultaneously ?

Oooooo that would so cool 

Edited September 15, 2020 by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

5) ah, so the looking into the Cognitive comes from being a Willshaper

Does it?  Couldn't it just be the amplification of Venli's natural abilities?  Even Kaladin sees some shadesmar visions.

3 minutes ago, Honorless said:

11) I think that we now have a name for the voidspren that detected usage of (most) of the Surges: secretspren, presumably Corrupted secretspren.

They might be just voidspren.

1 minute ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Could it be that he hasn't been able to unlock his abilities properly cause he requires voidlight for that ? 

Good question.  Also the question.  Where does the voidlight come from?

[Nathrangking]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

Maybe?  Odium must be somewhat aware of Renarin from before now.

That is likely true. However, the shenanigans with Moash that just taken place may have earned a second look as far as Odium is concerned.