Where is Szeth being utilized?

[Karger]

20 minutes ago, Invocation said:

"Leshwi’s spear was lined with a silvery metal that resisted Shardblade cuts."

Is that...not confirmation?

Unfortunately no.  It is a strong indication but until Navani positively identifies it I am afraid we can't know for sure.

[I Am A Fish]

4 hours ago, agrabes said:

No, I don't think it's lame to remove Nightblood from the story of Stormlight Archive.  

1) If you are a reader of Stormlight Archive only, you do not know or have reason to suspect that Nightblood is any more powerful than a normal shardblade.  Different, but not more powerful.  So, as a reader of SA, you do not know that Nightblood is hyper powerful.

Sanderson doesn't want there to be any plain SA readers anymore, you can see him working hard to make all his readers cosmere aware

10 minutes ago, Karger said:

Unfortunately no.  It is a strong indication but until Navani positively identifies it I am afraid we can't know for sure.

Yeah,

Not necessarily aluminum, that's just the most likely answer. 

[+Bzhydack]

4 hours ago, agrabes said:

1) If you are a reader of Stormlight Archive only, you do not know or have reason to suspect that Nightblood is any more powerful than a normal shardblade.  Different, but not more powerful.  So, as a reader of SA, you do not know that Nightblood is hyper powerful.

You can expect this. This sword can literally vaporized Thunderclast, also Odium is aware (and probably scared) of this blade - he directly ordered one Fused to steal sheeth, living Szeth to die - with sheeth someone will probably gather blade later.

Also, Szeth is in the jail. It was probably political agreement of some sort, or Dalinar want to siply hide him from other rulers - they suspect that Alethi want to conquer them, is no need to hit them with Assasin in the White person following Dalinars every step.

[ftl]

2 hours ago, I Used To Be A Fish said:

Sanderson doesn't want there to be any plain SA readers anymore, you can see him working hard to make all his readers cosmere aware

Those things aren't contradictory! You don't have to read *other books* to read SA, though SA introduces readers to the broader cosmere now.

[Michael Portz]

19 hours ago, I Used To Be A Fish said:

This is fair. Have we seen that the Fused can soulcast?

Yes, of course we have in Chapter 2 3 FIVE *god...m* FIVE(!!):

Quote

Leshwi’s spear was lined with a silvery metal that resisted Shardblade cuts.

Edited: Ok, further reading shows this already was discussed, so ignore at will :-)  But count me in the camp of "Fused have Aluminium Confirmed".

Edited September 16, 2020 by Michael Portz
Explained in change, change of reference

[I Am A Fish]

2 hours ago, Michael Portz said:

Yes, of course we have in Chapter 2 3 FIVE *god...m* FIVE(!!):

Edited: Ok, further reading shows this already was discussed, so ignore at will :-)  But count me in the camp of "Fused have Aluminium Confirmed".

I conceded that the fused had aluminum.

Spoiler

I was just being difficult 

 

[+robardin]

23 hours ago, I Used To Be A Fish said:

I honestly don't. This doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that Odium could prepare for.

Not sure what you mean. I'm certain that there will be people on Team Odium who could draw Nightblood - the built-in nausea test functions as a measure of self-evaluation: "am I evil?" in the sense of, "is what I am eager to do with this sword something I know is wrong?"

So Moash and Amaram, who are filled with self-loathing and who "gave their pain" to Odium to be free of it, no, they cannot draw Nightblood...

...But I could see a regular singer, particularly one from Alethkar, being indoctrinated in a way so as to pick up Nightblood in service, in a righteous fury to destroy the humans who stole their very minds and identities and enslaved them for centuries!

And if you recall the backstory from Warbreaker, remember that Nightbood would have no problem being wielded against people who formerly wielded it...

As for Warbreaker elements being an "Easter Egg" in Stormlight Archive, that's at least a little bit unfair. Warbreaker was intended to dovetail with SA from the get-go, as the very inspiration for the creation of an sentient, Awakened Sword was from when Shashara and Talaxin (Vasher) went to Roshar and saw Shardblades in action, and I think Vasher hints at that in Warbreaker itself while speaking to Vivenna? (Not sure any more)

[+robardin]

BTW as far as Nightblood goes...

As terrifying (but appropriate) as it is for Nightblood to be wielded by Szeth, what about Dalinar himself?

Szeth now has a living Shardblade of his own, having sworn the Third Ideal; Dalinar "has no Shards" as a Bondsmith, but not only could he wield Nightblood in battle instead, with his innate Perpendicularity he could probably wield Nightblood the longest of anybody. And he certainly knows his way around using a Blade.

[I Am A Fish]

40 minutes ago, robardin said:

BTW as far as Nightblood goes...

As terrifying (but appropriate) as it is for Nightblood to be wielded by Szeth, what about Dalinar himself?

Szeth now has a living Shardblade of his own, having sworn the Third Ideal; Dalinar "has no Shards" as a Bondsmith, but not only could he wield Nightblood in battle instead, with his innate Perpendicularity he could probably wield Nightblood the longest of anybody. And he certainly knows his way around using a Blade.

Three things

1. Dalinar can't fly, important I know
2. He's an old man, and even he recognizes this
3. He's about the last person who should be put in harms way, because of his innate perpendicularity 

You double posted may wanna edit your first one

[+Child of Hodor]

There is the WoB about him starting RoW in a jail that Dalinar sent him to. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/394/#e12849

I assume he will be running it as Warden. Szeth executed a crooked Warden in OB. Szeth had some strong opinions on prison administration and Warden is a good role for a Skybreaker. I don't think Dalinar is punishing Szeth, if he was going to do it he'd have done it at the end of OB instead of making him Navani's bodyguard. As Dalinar says to Kaladin about Amaram in WoR you can't imprison a shardbearer they'll just cut themselves free (I guess they could take Nightblood by force and Szeth may not have said the oath to take summon a blade yet). 

Anyways, I think Szeth isn't being utilized on the front lines because they don't trust him in that role and he doesn't trust himself. How many times has Szeth freaked out in battle during the series? Twice against Kaladin in WoR, then in OB he refused to go into the Thrill to help Dalinar who he just swore to follow. He made Lift take the King's Drop to Dalinar instead. Plus, Nightblood is super dangerous, he nearly killed Szeth and Lift.

I do agree with the OP, he's the most dangerous fighter they have. He's been actively using the surges for longer (he trained with all the surges before being Truthless) and actively used them to kill a lot as Truthless. Szeth and Nightblood + Dalinar nearby to keep investiture plentiful for Nightblood is a devastating combination. Maybe a book 5 thing. 

[agrabes]

14 hours ago, I Used To Be A Fish said:

Sanderson doesn't want there to be any plain SA readers anymore, you can see him working hard to make all his readers cosmere aware

Yeah,

Not necessarily aluminum, that's just the most likely answer. 

This is not true.  He's maintained for a long time that he has intentionally set up the Cosmere so that you don't have to follow and know tons of details about all his series to understand any one series.  He does want it to be possible for someone to read only Stormlight or only Mistborn, etc.  At some point, the stories of the individual planets will converge, but this is not set to happen in the 10 Stormlight Archive books.  He is starting to drop more open hints for readers that there is more to the world but the vast majority of characters themselves don't know it yet.  Sanderson has said things similar to the below on multiple occasions.  

Quote

V_Spaceman

I hope you don’t mind me asking, how do you think you’ll approach balancing out knowledge self-contained to the Mistborn series with the audience’s need to know about the larger Cosmere? Do people who only read Mistborn have to brush up on Roshar stuff beforehand?

Brandon Sanderson

For the final Mistborn trilogy, they will have to. That will be the cosmere equivalent of Endgame or something--the series that won't really work for you unless you've followed most everything up to that point. Dragonsteel, Era Three, etc should still work as stand-alones.

Is_Meta

That will be the cosmere equivalent of Endgame or something

This sentence alone gives me shivers. I can't wait for all of it. And I hope that everything comes together as you plan and hope.

Brandon Sanderson

I'm always hesitant to make Avengers comparisons, as the cosmere endgame is less about individuals coming together (though there will be some of that) and more about the clash between philosophies and cultures. But who knows? That is several decades away. Right now, I just need to keep working on Stormlight Four.

General Reddit 2019 (Dec. 10, 2019)

 

 

14 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

You can expect this. This sword can literally vaporized Thunderclast, also Odium is aware (and probably scared) of this blade - he directly ordered one Fused to steal sheeth, living Szeth to die - with sheeth someone will probably gather blade later.

Also, Szeth is in the jail. It was probably political agreement of some sort, or Dalinar want to siply hide him from other rulers - they suspect that Alethi want to conquer them, is no need to hit them with Assasin in the White person following Dalinars every step.

Odium is aware of Nightblood and what he is though Odium's knowledge is only hinted at in the books and confirmed by WoB, not directly stated.  So far as we know no one else on Roshar other than Vasher and Azure (and probably Cultivation) are aware of Nightblood's true nature.

I will grant that vaporizing a Thunderclast does give a hint that Nightblood's powers may be greater than a regular shardblade.  But, for all other enemies the effects are similar to a shardblade - pretty much one hit kill, with more drawbacks - stormlight drain.  As of right now, the Radiants don't really know Nightblood's true power or nature.  They can guess, but they don't know.

16 hours ago, Nameless said:

@Karger and @I Used To Be A Fish, the fused do have access to aluminum. They line their spears with it.

I mean, considering that Szeth completely vaporized an entire thunderclast, I think you would know that Nightblood is hype-powerful. In fact, I know that you would know that Nightblood is stronger than a normal shardblade, because I read OB before Warbreaker, and I knew Nightblood was awesome. I mean, compare his feats in Warbreaker to those in Stormlight, and what do you get?

I don't think it will be. I think Nightblood will be a very useful weapon, potentially a game-changing one, but there are thousands of fused, and Szeth struggled to kill them even during OB, which was before the best of the fused awakened.

First off, Azure is chasing Vasher, not meeting with him. I also don't think that Szeth is simply going to give Nightblood away. As for Azure stealing Nightblood, I could see that happening in book five maybe, with Szeth being injured and Azure taking Nightblood, reflecting on how he might have saved them, but I could also see her realizing that this war is a place that Nightblood can do more good than harm. As for the Warbreaker characters staying as an Easter egg plot, Brandon has said that back half of Stormlight is going to start bringing the Cosmere characters together, and the Nightblood/Vasher/Azure plot could very well stay an easter egg until then, with Nightblood being used strategically thoughout books four and five, and then later, in the peace in between series, they try to discover more about Nightblood's past.

Again, aluminum can at counter Nightblood somewhat, and the fused are very skilled. Maybe Nightblood could kill an unmade. That's a big maybe, and I would think that he most likely could not. That leaves him as an effective anti-fused tool, that has a lot of limitations. Not a delete-Odium weapon of mass destruction. A weapon on par with the dawnshards, whatever they are, or a Bondsmith.

I do think Azure is chasing Vasher, but if she catches him, she will be meeting with him.  I could see Szeth giving Nightblood away.  I don't think Szeth particularly likes Nightblood, he nearly died the one time he used him.  I don't think that Sanderson has said that the back half of Stormlight is going to start bringing Cosmere characters together.  In fact, I think he's said the opposite, see above WoB.  Cosmere characters won't come together until the very final cosmere series, Mistborn Era 4.

Aluminum is a weak counter to Nightblood.  Superior swordsmanship could defeat someone with a shield or armor made of aluminum.  Aluminum is a weak metal - so physical force could penetrate it relatively easily.  And you may not have been following it, but there is a huge amount of fan speculation (and recorded questions from fans to Sanderson about this topic) that Nightblood could indeed one hit KO anything in the Cosmere including Odium.  I think in terms of what Sanderson actually intends, I don't think Nightblood will be used as a delete Odium weapon.  I think Sanderson is trying to drop hints that Nightblood does have some limitations and he can't fully absorb the power of a being like Odium.  But tons of fans disagree.

 

3 hours ago, robardin said:

As for Warbreaker elements being an "Easter Egg" in Stormlight Archive, that's at least a little bit unfair. Warbreaker was intended to dovetail with SA from the get-go, as the very inspiration for the creation of an sentient, Awakened Sword was from when Shashara and Talaxin (Vasher) went to Roshar and saw Shardblades in action, and I think Vasher hints at that in Warbreaker itself while speaking to Vivenna? (Not sure any more)

I don't know that it's intended to dovetail into SA.  As I understand it, Sanderson thought that Vasher was a cool character when he wrote him for WoK Prime and decided it would be fun to write a backstory about him which became Warbreaker.  So Vasher isn't an Easter Egg exactly since he was always part of the SA story (though the fact that he's from another planet is), but Azure and Nightblood are.  

[NameIess]

35 minutes ago, agrabes said:

I don't think that Sanderson has said that the back half of Stormlight is going to start bringing Cosmere characters together.  In fact, I think he's said the opposite, see above WoB.  Cosmere characters won't come together until the very final cosmere series, Mistborn Era 4

Here's another WoB: (Spoiled for length)

Spoiler

Brainless

If you had a chance to go back for Elantris and the early Mistborn books and stuff like that, would you potentially consider adding more crossover characters, because you did put Hoid in all of those, but would you potentially put other smaller things from other planets, like other worldhoppers, in it?

Brandon Sanderson

So, the cheeky answer to this is, I've read The Monkey's Paw, and I've read enough science fiction stories to know that if someone says "Do you want to change this thing about your past?" that you say "No." Because depending on the writer you are either going to end up in a horror story, or you are going to have to learn some lesson about how important you are, or your family is, and then it will all be a dream, so no, I wouldn't.

But really the answer is no, I wouldn't change. I like the fact that the cosmere has a very light touch on those early books. I like it in part because I feel like people who are just getting into my fiction, I don't want them to feel like they have to follow everything to enjoy one book. And yeah, I'm adding little bits more into Stormlight, but that's inevitable because so much will take place in Shadesmar, which by it's nature is far more cosmere-aware, and so we're going to have to do more things the further Stormlight gets and the further Mistborn gets, because it will become inevitable. And that's fine, I'm embracing that. The further we go in the cosmere, the more you're going to have to be on board for the idea of the crossovers working. But I don't want the initial books that you get into to have to be like that. I was very intentional with my light touch on those early cosmere books and I wouldn't go back and add more. Even Way of Kings, right? Has what has Hoid and Felt in it, and that's just about it.

Chaos

Felt's in Words of Radiance.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, is he in Words of Radiance? He's not even in Way of Kings.

Several Questioners

*talking over each other*

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you saw Galladon, you saw the seventeenth shard. So there's like one scene in the whole book, maybe two, depending, but Hoid isn't even very Hoid-like in that first one. It's the second one where he mentions Adonalsium and stuff—

Several Questioners

*correct the previous statement*

Brandon Sanderson

Is it the first one? It's the first one. It's that party at the thing with Dalinar. So there's two scenes in Way of Kings, and that's very intentional. By the time we get to the second stage Stormlight books, and the fourth stage Mistborn books, you'll just have to be on-board. But by then you're entrenched. If you're reading Stormlight seven, then the Stormlight series is already longer than everything else, so you might as well just've read everything else.

MisCon 2018 (May 26, 2018)

 

[agrabes]

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Here's another WoB: (Spoiled for length)

  Reveal hidden contents

Brainless

If you had a chance to go back for Elantris and the early Mistborn books and stuff like that, would you potentially consider adding more crossover characters, because you did put Hoid in all of those, but would you potentially put other smaller things from other planets, like other worldhoppers, in it?

Brandon Sanderson

So, the cheeky answer to this is, I've read The Monkey's Paw, and I've read enough science fiction stories to know that if someone says "Do you want to change this thing about your past?" that you say "No." Because depending on the writer you are either going to end up in a horror story, or you are going to have to learn some lesson about how important you are, or your family is, and then it will all be a dream, so no, I wouldn't.

But really the answer is no, I wouldn't change. I like the fact that the cosmere has a very light touch on those early books. I like it in part because I feel like people who are just getting into my fiction, I don't want them to feel like they have to follow everything to enjoy one book. And yeah, I'm adding little bits more into Stormlight, but that's inevitable because so much will take place in Shadesmar, which by it's nature is far more cosmere-aware, and so we're going to have to do more things the further Stormlight gets and the further Mistborn gets, because it will become inevitable. And that's fine, I'm embracing that. The further we go in the cosmere, the more you're going to have to be on board for the idea of the crossovers working. But I don't want the initial books that you get into to have to be like that. I was very intentional with my light touch on those early cosmere books and I wouldn't go back and add more. Even Way of Kings, right? Has what has Hoid and Felt in it, and that's just about it.

Chaos

Felt's in Words of Radiance.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, is he in Words of Radiance? He's not even in Way of Kings.

Several Questioners

*talking over each other*

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you saw Galladon, you saw the seventeenth shard. So there's like one scene in the whole book, maybe two, depending, but Hoid isn't even very Hoid-like in that first one. It's the second one where he mentions Adonalsium and stuff—

Several Questioners

*correct the previous statement*

Brandon Sanderson

Is it the first one? It's the first one. It's that party at the thing with Dalinar. So there's two scenes in Way of Kings, and that's very intentional. By the time we get to the second stage Stormlight books, and the fourth stage Mistborn books, you'll just have to be on-board. But by then you're entrenched. If you're reading Stormlight seven, then the Stormlight series is already longer than everything else, so you might as well just've read everything else.

MisCon 2018 (May 26, 2018)

 

Hmm interesting.  Based on the fact that he contradicts himself a bit, it's most likely that he hasn't set his plans in stone yet.  Maybe SA back 5 do start to introduce the concept of multiple worlds being in contact, but it still plays only a small role.  Then, Mistborn 4 is finally the fully integrated Cosmere.  This is the kind of thing that will probably change over time as he finishes more of the books.

[ftl]

9 minutes ago, agrabes said:

  Maybe SA back 5 do start to introduce the concept of multiple worlds being in contact, but it still plays only a small role. 

Stormlight books 3 and 4 are already introducing the concept of multiple worlds being in contact! The trips to Shadesmar in Oathbringer, as Brandon said in that WoB, are the start. And in RoW, Shallan discovers the Ialai/Ghostblood notes about "Nalathis" "Tal Dain" and "Scadarial". So both the characters and the readers are explicitly learning about other worlds.

I think the key point for me is that "multiple worlds being in contact" is not the same thing as "requiring other series". In Stormlight Archive, we're getting introduced to people and plots that touch other planets. The Ghostbloods and their plans, the Warbreaker trio, the economy of Shadesmar. But everything you need to know about those people/planets in order to read Stormlight is introduced in Stormlight - there's not going to be a plot point that relies on knowledge readers would be expected to have from Warbreaker or Mistborn or White Sand.

[Gilphon]

I actually suspect that the Fused are lining their spears with chromium, not aluminium. Because those spears appear to be Fabrials, not just coated with a metal, and they behave basically exactly like a Leecher does. 

But- the more salient point is that the Fused appeared to be ready for Nightblood at Thaylen City. Like they seemed to know exactly how to deal with him- steal the sheath and run away as fast as you can. Nightblood is a powerful option if use correctly, but not one that can be deployed thoughtlessly. The problem with the chess metaphor is that in chess, you don't get to use pieces you capture. Odium's forces using Nightblood against the Radiants is a scenario that should be avoided at all costs.

[agrabes]

1 hour ago, ftl said:

Stormlight books 3 and 4 are already introducing the concept of multiple worlds being in contact! The trips to Shadesmar in Oathbringer, as Brandon said in that WoB, are the start. And in RoW, Shallan discovers the Ialai/Ghostblood notes about "Nalathis" "Tal Dain" and "Scadarial". So both the characters and the readers are explicitly learning about other worlds.

I think the key point for me is that "multiple worlds being in contact" is not the same thing as "requiring other series". In Stormlight Archive, we're getting introduced to people and plots that touch other planets. The Ghostbloods and their plans, the Warbreaker trio, the economy of Shadesmar. But everything you need to know about those people/planets in order to read Stormlight is introduced in Stormlight - there's not going to be a plot point that relies on knowledge readers would be expected to have from Warbreaker or Mistborn or White Sand.

I guess I'm saying multiple worlds being in contact as an actual plot element.  There are vague hints that clued in fans can pick up on currently.  But those are not part of the plot of the story.  If you only read Stormlight, you wouldn't know that there are references to other Cosmere books currently.  None of the Rosharan characters, including Jasnah, know that other worlds exist or that it is possible for them to travel to other worlds.  I hope that it stays that way for the front 5.  Maybe there will be a "post credits" reveal that there are dangers from other worlds that provide the hook for why the story isn't finished going into the back 5, but I think/hope that the front 5 will remain a tight story confined to Roshar.

I expect that in the back 5 is when there will be actual plot in Stormlight related to traveling to (or from) other worlds.  Rather than minor easter eggs with no plot relevance as it has been up through the currently release RoW chapters, in the back 5 you may start to see outsiders openly travel to Roshar.  Maybe if they are still around, Vasher and/or Azure will reveal their true origins.  Maybe the Ghostbloods will be revealed as worldhoppers.  Maybe Jasnah will go on a mission to another Shardworld to get some kind of relic.  It will still be on the fringes of the story, which will still be centered around Roshar.  But, it will be openly explored.

I agree with the general premise - it's cool if Rosharan characters branch out and find the way to contact other worlds at some point.  It's also cool if we find out at some point that an evil organization of worldhoppers is a major antagonist.  The only thing that isn't cool is if our favorite Rosharan heroes are proved incompetent and have to have their bacon saved by a prominent worldhopper from another series.

[Isilel]

On 16.9.2020 at 9:54 PM, agrabes said:

 None of the Rosharan characters, including Jasnah, know that other worlds exist or that it is possible for them to travel to other worlds. 

Wasn't the revelation that Rosharan humans arrived from another world a major plot point of OB? I'd say that the fact that other worlds exist and could be travelled to and from is fairly widely known by now. Not to mention whatever secret lore the Iriali may have retained. I have a theory that their deal with Odium is that he is going to help them relocate to their next world in exchange for their alliance. And that it is going to be

Spoiler

Scadrial

.

 

Quote

 Rather than minor easter eggs with no plot relevance as it has been up through the currently release RoW chapters, in the back 5 you may start to see outsiders openly travel to Roshar. 

Given Navani's prologue and Ialai's hints about why the Ghostbloods persecuted the Sons of Honor :

Quote

"Most of the Sons of Honor simply wanted their gods back, but Gavilar saw more. He saw entire worlds…”

I'd say that plot relevance definitely exists already. Unless you suggest that Shallan will just forget about Ialai's words, burn her notebooks  and won't interact with the Ghostblood leaders until the back 5.

 

Quote

I agree with the general premise - it's cool if Rosharan characters branch out and find the way to contact other worlds at some point.  It's also cool if we find out at some point that an evil organization of worldhoppers is a major antagonist.  The only thing that isn't cool is if our favorite Rosharan heroes are proved incompetent and have to have their bacon saved by a prominent worldhopper from another series.

Incompetent?! Our heroes are completely outmatched through no fault of their own. In fact, they should have already been destroyed - I attribute their survival solely to the fact that Odium isn't looking for a quick military victory, but needs something else - for them to give up and succomb to him, probably.

Is  the massively abused SF/fantasy trope of an ancient evil preparing for it's return for millenia, just to be defeated by the newbie protagonists pulling powers out of their posterior as the plot requires and having repeated contrived escapes/victories "by the seat of their pants" better? Personally, I don't entirely like how quickly our heroes obtained their Radiant skills and prefer them having some help to them rediscovering and mastering everything forgotten for millenia + coming up with  new revolutionary insights that would allow them to do better than their predecessors, all in the nick of time to triumph over an extremely capable prescient evil god  and his cohorts.

P.S. And how is Nightblood different from any old powerful, but dangerous artefact? As far as SA protagonists and even Vasher/Vivenna know it is very destructive, but also very risky to use.  Which is why it isn't going to be trotted out constantly, but employed very carefully and strategically. They don't yet know about it's effect on the Fused/thundreclasts, nor can they know that it can hurt Odium's Vessel - though one-hit KO is very unlikely in this case, IMHO.

Quote

Aluminum is a weak counter to Nightblood.

In OB a Fused parried Nightblood with it's own aluminum sheath. It worked excellently.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Isilel

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 9/16/2020 at 3:54 PM, agrabes said:

I guess I'm saying multiple worlds being in contact as an actual plot element.  There are vague hints that clued in fans can pick up on currently.  But those are not part of the plot of the story.  If you only read Stormlight, you wouldn't know that there are references to other Cosmere books currently.  None of the Rosharan characters, including Jasnah, know that other worlds exist or that it is possible for them to travel to other worlds.  I hope that it stays that way for the front 5.  Maybe there will be a "post credits" reveal that there are dangers from other worlds that provide the hook for why the story isn't finished going into the back 5, but I think/hope that the front 5 will remain a tight story confined to Roshar.

I expect that in the back 5 is when there will be actual plot in Stormlight related to traveling to (or from) other worlds.  Rather than minor easter eggs with no plot relevance as it has been up through the currently release RoW chapters, in the back 5 you may start to see outsiders openly travel to Roshar.  Maybe if they are still around, Vasher and/or Azure will reveal their true origins.  Maybe the Ghostbloods will be revealed as worldhoppers.  Maybe Jasnah will go on a mission to another Shardworld to get some kind of relic.  It will still be on the fringes of the story, which will still be centered around Roshar.  But, it will be openly explored.

I agree with the general premise - it's cool if Rosharan characters branch out and find the way to contact other worlds at some point.  It's also cool if we find out at some point that an evil organization of worldhoppers is a major antagonist.  The only thing that isn't cool is if our favorite Rosharan heroes are proved incompetent and have to have their bacon saved by a prominent worldhopper from another series.

I think the Ghostblood arc is intended to reveal the existence of other planets. It certainly seems to be headed that way, and Shallan will soon be headed to Shadesmar...

[Elsecaller_17.5]

The right answer is because he's in jail. Another one though would be the recognize his value so they want him to get plate before sending him to battle so he's better protected. 

[agrabes]

On 9/17/2020 at 7:06 AM, Isilel said:

Wasn't the revelation that Rosharan humans arrived from another world a major plot point of OB? I'd say that the fact that other worlds exist and could be travelled to and from is fairly widely known by now. Not to mention whatever secret lore the Iriali may have retained. I have a theory that their deal with Odium is that he is going to help them relocate to their next world in exchange for their alliance. And that it is going to be

  Reveal hidden contents

Scadrial

.

 

Given Navani's prologue and Ialai's hints about why the Ghostbloods persecuted the Sons of Honor :

I'd say that plot relevance definitely exists already. Unless you suggest that Shallan will just forget about Ialai's words, burn her notebooks  and won't interact with the Ghostblood leaders until the back 5.

 

Incompetent?! Our heroes are completely outmatched through no fault of their own. In fact, they should have already been destroyed - I attribute their survival solely to the fact that Odium isn't looking for a quick military victory, but needs something else - for them to give up and succomb to him, probably.

Is  the massively abused SF/fantasy trope of an ancient evil preparing for it's return for millenia, just to be defeated by the newbie protagonists pulling powers out of their posterior as the plot requires and having repeated contrived escapes/victories "by the seat of their pants" better? Personally, I don't entirely like how quickly our heroes obtained their Radiant skills and prefer them having some help to them rediscovering and mastering everything forgotten for millenia + coming up with  new revolutionary insights that would allow them to do better than their predecessors, all in the nick of time to triumph over an extremely capable prescient evil god  and his cohorts.

P.S. And how is Nightblood different from any old powerful, but dangerous artefact? As far as SA protagonists and even Vasher/Vivenna know it is very destructive, but also very risky to use.  Which is why it isn't going to be trotted out constantly, but employed very carefully and strategically. They don't yet know about it's effect on the Fused/thundreclasts, nor can they know that it can hurt Odium's Vessel - though one-hit KO is very unlikely in this case, IMHO.

In OB a Fused parried Nightblood with it's own aluminum sheath. It worked excellently.

I guess I could do better with using more precise language.  The Rosharan characters don't know that worlds exist other than those introduced within Rosharan myth and legend.  They know about Braize and Ashyn because that is part of their history.  They don't know about Scadrial, Nalthis, etc.  They believe the only way to travel to other worlds is through the Vorin religion, being a good person will send you to fight for the Tranquiline Halls in the afterlife.  Jasnah and others who don't follow the Vorin religion probably don't believe it's possible to travel to other worlds except with the help of a Shard.

The references from Navani's Prologue and Ialai's brief conversation with Shallan were vague.  They also aren't clear - they don't state directly that there are other planets.  Ialai's comment that Gavilar saw "entire worlds" would most likely be taken figuratively by Shallan.  Whatever method it was that Gavilar was using to transport things off Roshar was very imperfect.  This would be the maximum extent of his and Ialai's knowledge.  It feels like a teaser for fans.  Shallan will definitely be exploring the ideas and hints left behind by Ialai, but I don't think she will learn everything.  The Ghostbloods will actively hide this secret from Shallan and they have gotten the better of her at every opportunity thus far.  I would compare it to the mystery of the Voidbringers.  It was introduced in WoK - who and what are the voidbringers?  Jasnah was doing a lot of research and had some ideas of what she thought they were, but she didn't know for sure.  By the time of late WoR, Shallan had become convinced she was right and then at the end of WoR we saw it play out.  If we follow a similar arc for this mystery, then we would expect that it might be solved in SA5.  The idea of travelling between worlds is a major mystery.  I don't think it can be introduced and resolved within a single book.  I also think it's a real possibility that Shallan never is able to fully solve the Ghostblood mystery in the Front 5.  My personal prediction is that as SA5 draws to a close, the Ghostbloods step out of the shadows and reveal themselves as worldhoppers who are looking to seize power on Roshar for themselves.  The main heroes have to ignore them to focus on their battle with Odium and the Fused.  They save the planet, but there are consequences, setting up the Ghostbloods as the major villain of the back 5 and leading our heroes on a chase across the cosmere to find them.

Our heroes are indeed outmatched through no fault of their own.  I'm reading the story of Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar.  I want to see how they grow and adapt and eventually learn to defeat the ultimate evil.  I don't think they've acquired their Radiant skills easily.  All three of the major heroes have struggled and suffered greatly to develop their skills.  None of the three have mastered much more than half their abilities yet.  They've got a lot of room to grow.  Heck, we've seen both Kaladin and Shallan regress significantly in the last book.  I don't want to see the story of how everything they did was mostly unimportant and how Vasher and Vivenna arrived to save the day.  This is the story of Roshar, the story of Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar and their friends and allies.  It shouldn't be one upped by the story of Nalthis and Vasher, Vivenna, and Nightblood.  They got their own story, which was great, but let's leave it be.

Nightblood is different because he originates from another story which I dislike due to the idea of one-upmanship and because fan theories about him/it are extremely annoying.  If Nightblood were original to Roshar, I would still find its concept annoying, but would probably tolerate it.

On 9/18/2020 at 1:56 AM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think the Ghostblood arc is intended to reveal the existence of other planets. It certainly seems to be headed that way, and Shallan will soon be headed to Shadesmar...

I agree, but I don't believe it will be revealed to the characters in RoW.  Travelling to Shadesmar does not mean Shallan will travel to other worlds.  Shallan and Jasnah have both done it by the end of OB and neither have ventured to other worlds.  I don't think the mission to the Honor Spren in Shadesmar will lead to a trip to another world.  I think it might lead to Shallan picking up on the idea that the Ghostbloods may be from another world.

[Kingsdaughter613]

1 minute ago, agrabes said:

I guess I could do better with using more precise language.  The Rosharan characters don't know that worlds exist other than those introduced within Rosharan myth and legend.  They know about Braize and Ashyn because that is part of their history.  They don't know about Scadrial, Nalthis, etc.  They believe the only way to travel to other worlds is through the Vorin religion, being a good person will send you to fight for the Tranquiline Halls in the afterlife.  Jasnah and others who don't follow the Vorin religion probably don't believe it's possible to travel to other worlds except with the help of a Shard.

The references from Navani's Prologue and Ialai's brief conversation with Shallan were vague.  They also aren't clear - they don't state directly that there are other planets.  Ialai's comment that Gavilar saw "entire worlds" would most likely be taken figuratively by Shallan.  Whatever method it was that Gavilar was using to transport things off Roshar was very imperfect.  This would be the maximum extent of his and Ialai's knowledge.  It feels like a teaser for fans.  Shallan will definitely be exploring the ideas and hints left behind by Ialai, but I don't think she will learn everything.  The Ghostbloods will actively hide this secret from Shallan and they have gotten the better of her at every opportunity thus far.  I would compare it to the mystery of the Voidbringers.  It was introduced in WoK - who and what are the voidbringers?  Jasnah was doing a lot of research and had some ideas of what she thought they were, but she didn't know for sure.  By the time of late WoR, Shallan had become convinced she was right and then at the end of WoR we saw it play out.  If we follow a similar arc for this mystery, then we would expect that it might be solved in SA5.  The idea of travelling between worlds is a major mystery.  I don't think it can be introduced and resolved within a single book.  I also think it's a real possibility that Shallan never is able to fully solve the Ghostblood mystery in the Front 5.  My personal prediction is that as SA5 draws to a close, the Ghostbloods step out of the shadows and reveal themselves as worldhoppers who are looking to seize power on Roshar for themselves.  The main heroes have to ignore them to focus on their battle with Odium and the Fused.  They save the planet, but there are consequences, setting up the Ghostbloods as the major villain of the back 5 and leading our heroes on a chase across the cosmere to find them.

Our heroes are indeed outmatched through no fault of their own.  I'm reading the story of Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar.  I want to see how they grow and adapt and eventually learn to defeat the ultimate evil.  I don't think they've acquired their Radiant skills easily.  All three of the major heroes have struggled and suffered greatly to develop their skills.  None of the three have mastered much more than half their abilities yet.  They've got a lot of room to grow.  Heck, we've seen both Kaladin and Shallan regress significantly in the last book.  I don't want to see the story of how everything they did was mostly unimportant and how Vasher and Vivenna arrived to save the day.  This is the story of Roshar, the story of Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar and their friends and allies.  It shouldn't be one upped by the story of Nalthis and Vasher, Vivenna, and Nightblood.  They got their own story, which was great, but let's leave it be.

Nightblood is different because he originates from another story which I dislike due to the idea of one-upmanship and because fan theories about him/it are extremely annoying.  If Nightblood were original to Roshar, I would still find its concept annoying, but would probably tolerate it.

I agree, but I don't believe it will be revealed to the characters in RoW.  Travelling to Shadesmar does not mean Shallan will travel to other worlds.  Shallan and Jasnah have both done it by the end of OB and neither have ventured to other worlds.  I don't think the mission to the Honor Spren in Shadesmar will lead to a trip to another world.  I think it might lead to Shallan picking up on the idea that the Ghostbloods may be from another world.

I agree. We’ll get a lot more hints in Shadesmar, possibly official confirmation of Scadrial, Nalthis and Taldain being planets outside the Rosharan system. This last would be near the end though.

It isn’t until near the end of book 5 that we officially learn these are inhabited worlds from the other series, possibly with someone name dropping a title (likely Mistborn.) That’s also when we properly meet a world hopper (as in: ‘I’m not from Roshar. I’m from Planet X.’)

 

This is a mystery that isn’t being answered until the end of book 5, but it is leading toward it.