+Bzhydack Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Falkir said: I definitely want to hear the theory, that's like my thing. Probably I pasted something wrong, because i want link it in my earlier post. We know that Investiture can be converted one into other. But Odium dont want to invest AT ALL. He has to, because of Oathpact, but he try to avoid it. He wants to go out and kill other Shards, and every next piece of Investiture he Invest into Roshar will bond him more and more. Edited October 23, 2020 by Bzhydack 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessel of Theory Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Okay, thanks So, a related question that stems from this one, I think... When Honor made the Heralds, and gave them full access to his Investiture, and then they went through a whole heccin bunch of Desolations, how did Honor still have Investiture? Or is it a Ruin-Preservation situation, where Honor(as Preservation, metaphorically) was "destroyed" by Odium(metaphorically Ruin) because his Investiture was being used by the Heralds? Also... Do we know when Honor was broken? Wouldn't the Heralds have drawn Investiture from him at some point, only to find that he was dead? Can someone help me clear this up? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessel of Theory Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bzhydack said: Probably I pasted something wrong, because i want link it in my earlier post. We know that Investiture can be converted one into other. But Odium dont want to invest AT ALL. He has to, because of Oathpact, but he try to avoid it. He wants to go out and kill other Shards, and every next piece of Investiture he Invest into Roshar will bond him more and more. Okay, makes sense to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Falkir said: Okay, thanks So, a related question that stems from this one, I think... When Honor made the Heralds, and gave them full access to his Investiture, and then they went through a whole heccin bunch of Desolations, how did Honor still have Investiture? Or is it a Ruin-Preservation situation, where Honor(as Preservation, metaphorically) was "destroyed" by Odium(metaphorically Ruin) because his Investiture was being used by the Heralds? Also... Do we know when Honor was broken? Wouldn't the Heralds have drawn Investiture from him at some point, only to find that he was dead? Can someone help me clear this up? The honor blades are pieces of Honor's investiture. They can still use it, and their cognitive shadows (Kinda), making them immortal. Honor still had investiture, Shards can't run out of investiture, that's like earth running out of earth. Honor gave a little up, and even after being splintered, his investiture still exists. Regarding ruin and preservation, preservation still had investiture, but because he used a little bit up compared to ruin, ruin was just stronger than him, letting him kill him. Something similar might have happen with Odium and honor, where Honor had less than Odium, who made sure to never invest as much as possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessel of Theory Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 So Honor(kind of) made Invested pieces of himself? And then Odium was able to kill him because he didn't have enough Investiture? Basically the Honorblades make the Herald then, not the Oathpact? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Falkir said: Basically the Honorblades make the Herald then, not the Oathpact? Also no. Honor made Heralds as Cognitive Shadows (something like made from Investiture copy of soul/mind of living person), and they were Connected directly to him, and also make splinters of himself, and condenset them as Honorblades. Heralds dont need their blades to be Heralds. Oathpact was made BY Heralds (Ishar, more specificly) to somehow bond Odium. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessel of Theory Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Bzhydack said: Also no. Honor made Heralds as Cognitive Shadows (something like made from Investiture copy of soul/mind of living person), and they were Connected directly to him, and also make splinters of himself, and condenset them as Honorblades. Heralds dont need their blades to be Heralds. Oathpact was made BY Heralds (Ishar, more specificly) to somehow bond Odium. Okay makes sense, kind of This is where I know little So the Heralds are Heralds because of the Oathpact, and the Honorblades gave them "Radiant" abilities through the Honorblades' Connection to Honor, not a spren bond. So, question: If the Honorblades are connected to Honor, and Honor is dead, where do the Honorblades draw the Investiture from? Do they just have unlimited Investiture? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Falkir said: Okay makes sense, kind of This is where I know little So the Heralds are Heralds because of the Oathpact, and the Honorblades gave them "Radiant" abilities through the Honorblades' Connection to Honor, not a spren bond. So, question: If the Honorblades are connected to Honor, and Honor is dead, where do the Honorblades draw the Investiture from? Do they just have unlimited Investiture? No. They are pure investiture and basically make the wielder have a connection to honor, doing something similar to nicrosol metalminds. Also, okay, i need to make this clear because I can see your confused, Honor aka Tanavast the vessel is dead. The shard honor and its power is not. There are still remnants of his power people can use, it's just the shard that's gone. And even that may not be true, because the stormfather has a large amount of Honor power and ay be some sort of cognitive shadow of tanavast. Just because a shard dies downs't mean the power dies. they may change, but it's still there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessel of Theory Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Oh Thanks, that makes sense. Shard vs shardholder. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Falkir said: So, question: If the Honorblades are connected to Honor, and Honor is dead, where do the Honorblades draw the Investiture from? Do they just have unlimited Investiture? Honor's Vessel is dead. But Honor's Investiture still exist. Is shattered to pieces, but this is power and cannot be practicly destroyed, but can be dispersed. Also, Honorblades dont draw Investiture to exist. They ARE Investiture - Honor's God Metal. And they allow user to use Surges, but he needs to have his own power supply - gems with Stormlight, or, if he is Herald, direct Connection to Honor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessel of Theory Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Ooooooooh, okay, makes sense. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Falkir said: Ooooooooh, okay, makes sense. Thanks Okay dude, when responding to some, quote them. That plus button next to the word quote? Click that. Then we get alerted. We can't read your responses if we don't know you responded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessel of Theory Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 25 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said: Okay dude, when responding to some, quote them. That plus button next to the word quote? Click that. Then we get alerted. We can't read your responses if we don't know you responded. k, thx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiring Writer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Falkir said: k, thx you have no idea how satisfying it is to see a quote. Hmmm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessel of Theory Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just now, Aspiring Writer said: you have no idea how satisfying it is to see a quote. Hmmm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) On 9/11/2020 at 10:10 AM, Honorless said: Judging by the comments made by Syl, Pattern and that Cultivationspren at Celebrant, yes, Odium threatened Shadesmar as well. Not to mention Shadesmar's continued existence is dependent on Roshar's continued existence, it's formed by the collective consciousness of Roshar's inhabitants after all @robardin The main reason a lot of Roshar spren never liked Odium and wanted to help fight against him is that Odium's explicit goal is to kill and splinter their mom and dad. Wyndle refers to Cultivation as mother repeatedly. Stormfather says "my siblings" to refer to Nightwatcher and The Sibling (OB Ch. 64). Nightwatcher calls Cultivation mother. They're all related, all the radiant spren are a mix of Honor and Cultivation. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/29/#e2114 Edited October 23, 2020 by Child of Hodor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted October 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said: @robardin The main reason a lot of Roshar spren never liked Odium and wanted to help fight against him is that Odium's explicit goal is to kill and splinter their mom and dad. Wyndle refers to Cultivation as mother repeatedly. Stormfather says "my siblings" to refer to Nightwatcher and The Sibling (OB Ch. 64). Nightwatcher calls Cultivation mother. They're all related, all the radiant spren are a mix of Honor and Cultivation. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/29/#e2114 Right. So... Why would the Stormfather, being aware of the Oathpact being broken, still want to forbid spren (particularly honorspren) from bonding with humans again? If it's death by oathbreaking by human hands or splintering by Odium, at least go down fighting? With him trying to wash away the Alethi army before the Battle of Narak, I guess you might say he hoped to forestall the Everstorm by making it a default victory for the Parshendi so they wouldn't have to do it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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