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RoW Chapter 10 Discussion

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30 minutes ago, TMC29ZX said:

We know from Syl’s that now is the time Kaladin will be a surgeon.

Ever since that interlude people keep saying Kaladin is back to being a surgeon for a time. But the actual wording is:

Quote

She needed to help Kaladin. Perhaps he would be satisfied as a surgeon, and it would be good for him to not have to kill anymore. 

This doesn't say anything about him actually going down that path, it's only Syl speculating about options again.

As for the chapter, storms. Even with vaguely knowing what was coming it hit hard.

Edited by Ailvara
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59 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

haha wherein the Windrunners discover lift and dismiss it as an inconvenience to their gravity negating powers.

I thought you meant *Lift*, and was super confused.

56 minutes ago, Shardsplinter said:

Changes polarization? Did someone really get what that means? Like you need them to switch between painrial and pain inducer?

Could this be the difference between conjoined gems (e.g. spanreeds) are either going the same way, or going opposite (in addition to the different gems, as per The Coppermind?

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Wow, a real short chapter but it was so much more painful to read! 
Kaladin being taken off-duty!! While I can see how this must hurt kaladin right now but I think this should be a good thing. Trust Dalinar to bench the best of his army! 
Could it be that there are windrunners who are ready to say the forth oath but are holding back!? Out of respect to Kaladin? 
interesting... 

yunfah and Rlain? Does it mean that Rlain is already a squire? Has he been able to breathe in stormlight?

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1. Does anything feel perturbed by the ominous ending to this chapter? Makes me nervous.. perhaps Kaladin isn’t as safe as we all think he is. 
 

2. Well, we know why the Honorspren aren’t bonding any more Radiants, but does anyone have any guesses on what will convince them to change their minds? 
 

3. I wonder if Dalinar swearing by The God Beyond is an indication of him becoming more cosmere-aware? My guess would be via Ash & Taln, though there could be an open worldhopper that we just haven’t met yet. 

Edited by _edgedancer
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32 minutes ago, robardin said:

FWIW, I did a text search and the only mention of "The God Beyond" in SA works was in Words of Radiance, in the Shallan flashback when "the messenger" (Hoid) who came to give Heleran's message at the Davar household tells her the story about two blind men debating their respective abilities to know beauty, and one of them says he prays "to the God Beyond" to restore his sight.

And in this chapter, Dalinar reflects on the semi-usefulness of talking to the Heralds, one mad and the other mostly so, but yeah perhaps they swear by the God Beyond, so if one of their erstwhile Vorin gods (Heralds) swears by a god "beyond" Honor as the Almighty, who are they not to follow suit?

isn't it a bit too soon then for him to start swearing by the god beyond. We know in world it's only been a year,is that enough time for him to adopt a whole new religion and then change his way of speaking to match that?

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Good chapter.  I really appreciated the parallels between Kaladin as the commanding officer given necessary but uncomfortable orders to the honorspren subordinate contrasted with Dalinar the superior doing the same to Kaladin.

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3 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

isn't it a bit too soon then for him to start swearing by the god beyond. We know in world it's only been a year,is that enough time for him to adopt a whole new religion and then change his way of speaking to match that?

Dalinar was already saying in OB that if Honor was dead then he must not have been God. That there must be a higher God beyond Honor. I think Dalinar is essentially making up the rest of the belief system as it suits him, mostly following Vorinism, but reforming it.

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12 minutes ago, Infinitysliver said:

isn't it a bit too soon then for him to start swearing by the god beyond. We know in world it's only been a year,is that enough time for him to adopt a whole new religion and then change his way of speaking to match that?

You hardly have to adopt a whole new religion to pick up new swears...!

The percent of Jews I know who routinely say "Jesus Christ!" as an exclamation exceeds the Christians who do, and it's probably partly or largely due the fact that they don't consider it blasphemy, you know?

For that matter, in a Mistborn reference and partial spoiler for The Final Empire

Spoiler

Kelsier's crew, including Vin and even Kelsier himself as a cognitive ghost in Secret History, all still exclaim Lord Ruler! even after being personally responsible for ending him.

If anything, if that is the source of it, for Dalinar to have picked it up implies he's spent a fair amount of time talking to the Heralds, and for them to have been saying it a lot as well. Ha ha.

Edited by robardin
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So i wonder now. Did Syl came to Dalinar to thank him in her Interlude because Kaladin played resentful kid and didnt talk to him again.

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1 minute ago, _edgedancer said:

2. Well, we know why the Honorspren aren’t bonding any more Radiants, but does anyone have any guesses on what will convince them to change their minds? 

I think it is two part. First is Kaladin saying the 4th oath. Second is Rlain bonding his Spren. 

 

Kaladin reaching the next Ideal shows humans can reach that level of "commitment". Also, with Rlain it shows that the humans and Singers can unite together against Odium and they aren't necessarily using the power against each other. 

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2 minutes ago, paperstones said:

I think it is two part. First is Kaladin saying the 4th oath. Second is Rlain bonding his Spren. 

 

Kaladin reaching the next Ideal shows humans can reach that level of "commitment". Also, with Rlain it shows that the humans and Singers can unite together against Odium and they aren't necessarily using the power against each other. 

Both very good predictions, love this 

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I know that "reversing polarity" has become science-babble-speak for making an item perform the opposite function, but ultimately the term "polarity" just means "orientation". For instance, it is used in botany to refer to a plant's ability to grow towards the sun.

My personal theory on steel and iron "changing polarity" is changing the direction of the effect and changing how focused the effect is in that direction. So steel and iron can be used to turn a heating fabrial into a heat ray gun.

Edited by Weux082690
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4 minutes ago, _edgedancer said:

Both very good predictions, love this 

If Kaladin ends up being the Envoy that goes with Shallan and Adolin to meet with the Honorspren, his swearing could happen in Shadesmar. How would that work with the powerup? We've only seen a swearing of an Oath/Ideal on the Physical Realm and not the Cognitive. Would he somehow manifest plate there?

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Ideals are always sworn at a personal/moral climax (I will protect those I hate etc.), and I can't believe that Brandon is going to have Kaladin not say the fourth ideal, ever. What I think is going to happen is that one of the original Bridge Four Windrunners (Lopen, Teft, etc.) is going to die and he's going to say an oath along the lines of "I cannot protect everyone, no matter how hard I try."

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1 minute ago, paperstones said:

If Kaladin ends up being the Envoy that goes with Shallan and Adolin to meet with the Honorspren, his swearing could happen in Shadesmar. How would that work with the powerup? We've only seen a swearing of an Oath/Ideal on the Physical Realm and not the Cognitive. Would he somehow manifest plate there?

Well he almost did swear the Fourth Ideal in Shadesmar in Oathbringer, and windspren started swirling around him. Yet at the same time, he wasn't able to summon Syl as a Blade in Shadesmar. So... Something would happen, but would it result in him being encased in living Shardplate, I'm guessing not.

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6 minutes ago, Weux082690 said:

I know that "reversing polarity" has become science-babble-speak for making an item perform the opposite function, but ultimately the term "polarity" just means "orientation". For instance, it is used in botany to refer to plant's ability to grow towards the sun.

My personal theory on steel and iron "changing polarity" is changing the direction of the effect and changing the how focused the effect is in that direction. So steel and iron can be used to turn a heating fabrial into a heat ray gun.

Yeah, I really don't like the amount of technobabble Brandon has put in these chapters. I figured that iron and steel are not doing anything, and simply moving pieces of tin and pewter around. (You move a lever made of steel and it swaps the pewter piece for a tin one, turning the fabrial into a Diminisher from an Augmenter.)

4 minutes ago, paperstones said:

If Kaladin ends up being the Envoy that goes with Shallan and Adolin to meet with the Honorspren, his swearing could happen in Shadesmar. How would that work with the powerup? We've only seen a swearing of an Oath/Ideal on the Physical Realm and not the Cognitive. Would he somehow manifest plate there?

 

1 minute ago, robardin said:

Well he almost did swear the Fourth Ideal in Shadesmar in Oathbringer, and windspren started swirling around him. Yet at the same time, he wasn't able to summon Syl as a Blade in Shadesmar. So... Something would happen, but would it result in him being encased in living Shardplate, I'm guessing not.

I do hope that he swears it in Shadesmar. I think he will simply summon a ton of windspren around himself, he might also get a boost in strength.

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I read this chapter, and now I have mixed feelings about Kaladin. On the one hand, I want him to swear the fourth ideal at a dramatic moment, and save everyone heroically, but... I don't know if he will. This chapter scares me a lot. Kaladin is my favorite character, not just in Stormlight, but in anything, and that makes me expect him to be basically a god, but he's not, he's just a human being who has been broken by his terrible life. I don't know if he can do it this time, however much I want him to.

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I just didn't saw it coming in any way. Storms Sanderson, this is the most fast paced first arc you ever wrote, I'm still processing everything that happened in just 10 chapters

Poor Kaladin I feel how shocked he is being demoted, Dalinar you are incredible, you are the only one who can be that heartless because you understand and cares for what it better for others

There is an actual chance that Kaladin is still in group 1, but he's the main character with few viewpoints (Navani, Venli and other being the members of group 1 with many viewpoints)

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What does everyone think Kaladin is going to do during the book? He has to progress towards the 4th ideal, so what is he going to do?

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39 minutes ago, robardin said:

You hardly have to adopt a whole new religion to pick up new swears...!

The percent of Jews I know who routinely say "Jesus Christ!" as an exclamation exceeds the Christians who do, and it's probably partly or largely due the fact that they don't consider it blasphemy, you know?

For that matter, in a Mistborn reference and partial spoiler for The Final Empire

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelsier's crew, including Vin and even Kelsier himself as a cognitive ghost in Secret History, all still exclaim Lord Ruler! even after being personally responsible for ending him.

If anything, if that is the source of it, for Dalinar to have picked it up implies he's spent a fair amount of time talking to the Heralds, and for them to have been saying it a lot as well. Ha ha.

exactly,thats what i mean,they grew up with it,thats already part of the culture or whatever its called. This has been only one year and he's already swearing by the God Beyond? what i'm saying is that,isn't this too soon for him to use it as part of his linguistics? i'm looking for the right word but lingusitics was the closest i could get to.

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Kaladin is my favorite Stormlight character, so this chapter hit hard.  However, from a writing perspective Kal speaking the 4th Oath will probably happen differently from the 2nd and 3rd.  Those two happened at climactic moments and involved saving main characters.  In OB, it looked like it was going to happen again but Brandon pulled a bait and switch.  When Kal speaks the 4th Ideal, it seems like it will be a more personal moment this time around.

Honestly, if Kal is going to be hanging around Urithiru, him spending some time with Lift might do wonders for his mental state.  Plus I really want the two of them to have some screen time together, just to see how they interact.

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21 minutes ago, Innovation said:

What does everyone think Kaladin is going to do during the book? He has to progress towards the 4th ideal, so what is he going to do?

I hope he goes to the Honorspren capital and has an emotionally charged debate with them about the nature of honor and loss and protecting who you love despite it all. The honorspren are both shamed and inspired and swear themselves to the cause. Kal in turn is inspired to better cope with loss and swears the next oath.

As the one who cares so deeply about the loss of comrades, his opinion would probably resonate well with the Honorspren still bitter about the losses in the Recreance.

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1 minute ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I hope he goes to the Honorspren capital and has an emotionally charged debate with them about the nature of honor and loss and protecting who you love despite it all. The honorspren are both shamed and inspired and swear themselves to the cause. Kal in turn is inspired to better cope with loss and swears the next oath.

As the one who cares so deeply about the loss of comrades, his opinion would probably resonate well with the Honorspren still bitter about the losses in the Recreance.

But why would Dalinar send a depressed, emotionally wounded highmarshal into Shadesmar? Kaladin is still useful to train troops and inspire soldiers. 

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1 hour ago, Doneil said:

So Kal gave Yunfah 10 days and Dalinar gave Kal 10. Im hoping that there may be something more than irony at work here. Perhaps the decisions conflict eachotger somehow? Maybe Yunfah decision helps Kaladin at the last minute?

Probably more like it's the standard "long, but not too long" time allotted for making a major decision on Roshar where things come in tens. Like giving someone "a week to think about it" in our world.

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I doubt Kaladin is going to be on the expedition.  I don't think Dalinar, having just pulled him from frontline duty, is going to send him off on an expedition when he clearly sees the turmoil Kaladin is experiencing.  He will want to keep him close.

2 minutes ago, robardin said:

Probably more like it's the standard "long, but not too long" time allotted for making a major decision on Roshar where things come in tens. Like giving someone "a week to think about it" in our world.

10 days is two weeks in Roshar calendar, I don't think it's anything more than that.

Edited by Kuram
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