Jump to content

RoW Chapter 10 Discussion


Jofwu

Recommended Posts

Just now, Shardsplinter said:

Changes polarization? Did someone really get what that means? Like you need them to switch between painrial and pain inducer?

Exactly. Steel and iron somehow change if tin or pewter are affecting the Fabrial. This wouldn’t be necessary if you only had one, of course.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I forgot how much Kaladin is obsessed with 'protecting' cause we've been seeing him mostly in action lately and in the battlefield protecting your soldiers makes sense. But here? We all know and Kal also knows Dalinar is right yet he keeps coming up with those weird arguments. The break will do good for him, if he sees leading Windrunners in battle as the only valuable thing he really needs to take a step back and think about his life. 

Also I'm pretty sure Kal will eventually say the fourth ideal but it would be crazy if he just didn't. He's been painted as such a hero, the best fighter, best at Lashing and what if he just couldn't do it? Sadly it would mean he wouldn't get any character progress anymore so I doubt this would be the case but I think it would be fascinating if someone said it before him. That would break his best at being a Windrunnner streak and be intresting to see how he deals with it. That could even help him realise he can't protect everyone as he will no longer be the best if that makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

 I'm pretty sure the eye thing is fading away now that anyone can be a radiant and get Shardblades.

Also taln has dark eyes and they know that . Dalinar and the others are pro equality now genderwise and eye colour wise. Have we seen anyone being discriminated against cause of that ? I mean kaladin was just angry at dalinar right?

We've only seen a few of the core characters who already weren't as discriminatory, let's wait and see how the rest of the world reacts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good chapter just wanted more. I'm sure I am not the 1st one to say this. But forcing KL away from fighting and have to look inward at himself will probably get him to speak the 4th ideal/ oath. But he is probably going to be going to a dark place before he gets there. Also I do t this I I want Kaladin in armor. I LOVE shard plate I have always been a tank in any video game I played so the big bulky armor is so cool to me. But Kaladin just doesn't fit in armour 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess Dalinar finally found the god greater than Honor he's been looking for ever since learning that Honor is dead. The aptly named the God Beyond. I wonder how he learned of that. Spiritual Realm powers?

I'm very glad Kaladin has been taken off duty. Let the man finally have some time to reflect and sort things out. Maybe get some healthy coping mechanisms, as a treat. 

I'm kind of surprised most orders just decided to run with the revelation that the singers are the natives of Roshar. I expected more of an outcry. I guess there's the Windrunners that are uncomfortable with it and then there's Dalinar. I can't wait to see how this moral dilemma plays out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if the Heavenly Ones' "duel-istic" approach to fighting the Windrunners will change once Leshwi realizes Kaladin is no longer coming to battle. She appears to be their leader in a similar way to Kaladin leading the Windrunners, and surely she knows about Kaladin's history and relationship to Moash/Vyre; what if she views the way they've been fighting as a kind of personal extension of a struggle with Kaladin, on multiple levels?

And with no Kaladin... It becomes warfare as usual, where as Kaladin noted they are actually outnumbered as well as out-resourced for replacement time in an all-out Heavenly Ones vs. Windrunners type of scenario?

 

1 hour ago, Harbour said:

Its interesting to see how Brandon intentionally paralleled Kaladin's order for Honorspren (10 days) and Dalinar's order fro Kaladin (10 days).

Honestly, the way Kaladin ordered around Honorspren felt very un-Kaladin move. 

Yes, and no. Remember he also berated and commanded Bridge Four back in the chasms to get over "Shen" being a parshman, and to accept him as a full and equal member. This is similar... Of course, giving commands "as your highmarshal" to a spren seemed a little odd, but it was based on Syl's suggestion that "honorspren respect rank and look to you for authority", so I guess that's what Kaladin sounds like on the rare occasion that he actually does pull rank.

As far as spren being "commanded" to bond with a specific person not of their personal choice, we have seen that before with another order - Wyndle said several times early on how he wished "the Ring" hadn't matched him up with Lyft, who kept calling him a Voidbringer and all that.

But ultimately it's surely up to the individual spren to do the actual bonding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also I wonder if Kal is trying for sub intentional suicide. 

U see it a lot in depressed ppl. Ppl who won't accept they want to die but who find other ways ,  doing dangerous stunts like driving at superspeed or taking selfies in front of a train and jumping away right before it might hit u  or in case of drug abusers , trying to get a superhigh by shooting yourself up with way too many drugs .

Generally using thrillseeking and reckless , stupid bravery as excuses. 

Like it would be cowardly and dishonorable to give up. But to die by " accident " . Well that's just bad luck u know. 

I wonder if that plays a role in kal. Like we already know he wants to give up but thinks of it as cowardly and dishonorable , so perhaps he's trying to fight thinking maybe some opponent could kill him. 

Much like szeth used to wish . 

Now that doesn't mean he doesn't want to protect his friends or not care about them.  He probably isn't aware of his bias himself. It usually takes a long time for the victims to realize they aren't stupidly brave but just passively suicidal. 

It could be that he couldn't say the 4th ideal in OB cause if he did he would save the day maybe but he would continue to suffer and see other friends die .

Live to see other days like the day when elhokar ,his watch friends and his parshendi friends die.  

That happened even tho he tried his best to help all of them and was the only Windrunner in Roshar. 

 Saying the fourth ideal will make a honorable death that much unlikely.

If so I wonder if kals words wil be " I will continue to protect , even if it may mean I have to continue to suffer and see others suffer as well ". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, robardin said:

Yes, and no. Remember he also berated and commanded Bridge Four back in the chasms to get over "Shen" being a parshman, and to accept him as a full and equal member. This is similar... Of course, giving commands "as your highmarshal" to a spren seemed a little odd, but it was based on Syl's suggestion that "honorspren respect rank and look to you for authority", so I guess that's what Kaladin sounds like on the rare occasion that he actually does pull rank.

As far as spren being "commanded" to bond with a specific person not of their personal choice, we have seen that before with another order - Wyndle said several times early on how he wished "the Ring" hadn't matched him up with Lyft, who kept calling him a Voidbringer and all that.

But ultimately it's surely up to the individual spren to do the actual bonding.

I agree. The Spren is just refusing to even consider Rlain as an option. All Kaladin did was order the Spren to go talk to Rlain and see that Rlain isn’t an enemy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We know from Syl’s that now is the time Kaladin will be a surgeon. Would it be too obvious if he ends up next to Lirin and keeps having losses and finally accepts he can’t save everyone? Lirin has been telling him that since Roshone’s son in tWoK and maybe that will finally force him to speak the Words. A time of Kaladin losing people in surgery (possibly some friends) might make him accept it. 
 

I also know that Brandon said that Book I is more like the final Book to the time skip, so maybe we won’t have to wait till the end of RoW before he either says the Words or decides he’s happy in his new life. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, robardin said:

Yes, and no. Remember he also berated and commanded Bridge Four back in the chasms to get over "Shen" being a parshman, and to accept him as a full and equal member. This is similar... Of course, giving commands "as your highmarshal" to a spren seemed a little odd, but it was based on Syl's suggestion that "honorspren respect rank and look to you for authority", so I guess that's what Kaladin sounds like on the rare occasion that he actually does pull rank.

As far as spren being "commanded" to bond with a specific person not of their personal choice, we have seen that before with another order - Wyndle said several times early on how he wished "the Ring" hadn't matched him up with Lyft, who kept calling him a Voidbringer and all that.

But ultimately it's surely up to the individual spren to do the actual bonding.

I think this is foreshadowing Kaladin eventually fulfilling Jezrien's place as a Herald and Patron of the Windrunners. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Dalinar's point to Kaladin that he should consider being an ambassador is interesting.  We know of one confirmed ambassador mission and one suspected one that will happen in this book:

 

1) Confirmed Ambassador mission to the Honor Spren in Shadesmar.  Could Kaladin join Shallan and Adolin on that mission?  The Amazon blurb mentions an "envoy", so it's possible Kaladin will go on this mission.  Then again - do you really want to send a depressed, recently stripped of command, Windrunner to see the honor spren?

2) Become an ambassador to the independent parsh faction of the former "listeners" and disaffected "singers."  This isn't confirmed but just seems highly likely to be something that will happen in this book.  Mentioning Rlain in this chapter also makes it seem likely.

I think with Kaladin sort of being the "main" hero of the books and the book likely dealing heavily with the parsh, he's probably going to be working on a mission with/to them.  Maybe this is where and how Kaladin learns there's more to life than fighting as a soldier.  As much of a dedicated person as he is, it may take him first learning a new skill/trade that he feels is equally important to the war effort to understand that he can do other things than just being a soldier and still have value, still protect people.  This may be his way to the 4th/5th oath.  Or, it may be his way to accepting life as a 3rd Oath Windrunner.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice to see Dalinar's battle leadership mesh with his Bondsmith skills of connection. He sees right through Kaladin, but uses questions and silence to get Kal to see it himself (ironically, even Kal sees that he's doing it but can't help but fall into line). Dalinar knows when to use his commands and when to use his compassion, just like Kal does with the wayward spren moments before. Such great parallelisms of leadership. 

I do think the fact that both Kal and Dalinar think there's no coming back for a battle-weary warrior means that Kal's fourth oath will be the catalyst to bring him back, probably after months of development by Lirin's side in Urithiru and at a critical battle moment. I still hope that Kal swears it before anyone else.

In terms of Rlain, I want more of his POVs. How hard must this last year have been for him! And how he must feel seeing the only remaining Honorspren treat him with the same disdain as all the other Alethi probably do. Argh. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

I'm betting the God Beyond part came from the Heralds. They're the only Cosmere aware characters he's likely to have interacted with that would know of that unless Hoid has been around. 

FWIW, I did a text search and the only mention of "The God Beyond" in SA works was in Words of Radiance, in the Shallan flashback when "the messenger" (Hoid) who came to give Heleran's message at the Davar household tells her the story about two blind men debating their respective abilities to know beauty, and one of them says he prays "to the God Beyond" to restore his sight.

And in this chapter, Dalinar reflects on the semi-usefulness of talking to the Heralds, one mad and the other mostly so, but yeah perhaps they swear by the God Beyond, so if one of their erstwhile Vorin gods (Heralds) swears by a god "beyond" Honor as the Almighty, who are they not to follow suit?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...