How come shardic futuresight doesn't cancel each other out?

[Necessary Eagle]

In Mistborn, Leras's big plan has an awful lot of very specific moving parts. Especially considering that he put everything into motion a thousand years ago, and has been mostly dead since. There had to have been a huge about of precise precognition involved. But Ati can see the future, too, and they're actively working against each other. So why don't they cancel each other out?

And we know that Shards can suffer from the atium-shadow effect. Over in Roshar, Renarin's futuresight, which he gets from Odium's power, confounds Odium enough that he can't see Renarin on the Diagram. You'd think that an actual Shard vs Shard effort would wipe out their prognostications completely.

[aneonfoxtribute]

Presumably its because Shards have varying amounts of future sight. Preservation has very strong future sight. If he were at odds with, say, Cultivation, then their future sight might cancel each other out. But Ruin is worse at future sight, likely be a significant amount. 

[Azarias]

23 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

Presumably its because Shards have varying amounts of future sight. Preservation has very strong future sight. If he were at odds with, say, Cultivation, then their future sight might cancel each other out. But Ruin is worse at future sight, likely be a significant amount. 

I think this is absolutely true, but I also think that they do cancel each other out. These differences in power may allow some shards to retain some future sight, but even then, the shards are essentially gods with thousands of years worth of time to plan and scheme and create these elaborate plans. People in the real world are able to create big plans with lots of moving parts, and their plans can work. Why can't the Shards do the same to each other? 

Plus you assume everything in the plan went right. Leras's plan A could have been totally different and Ruin could have forced in to plan Z. We only saw the very end of it, it is perfectly possible that Leras's plan was just good enough, and he knew Ruin well enough, that it just worked.

[ftl]

It also isn't necessarily the case that Preservation had everything planned out precisely.

Part of the theme of the books is trust - and you can definitely interpret Preservation's plans as giving humans the tools to solve the problems and then trusting that they'd be able to do it, even when he wasn't there to aid them directly (contrasting with Ruin, who either did things directly or via control/manipulation).

...but it also could just be that Preservation's foresight was better than Ruin's. Ruin was only ever shown planning a few decades ahead, whereas Preservation's plan was in action for millenia.

[Eternal Khol]

the Shards see into the Future in different ways and due to Intent, some are just naturally better at it.

Preservation couldve been seeing something that Ruin was uncapable of Predicting?

 

 

Questioner

When Wax is talking to Harmony he mentions 'the radio' and other things. Are there already societies that have things like that and how is he getting that information. Is it like a Spiritual Realm..

Brandon Sanderson

He knows things from his Ascension. He gain an innate knowledge of the universe in interesting ways. In addition, Preservation had some minor innate progno... he could see the future a little bit, and so could Ruin in a little different way. Let's just say that there are a bunch of things mixing together that give Harmony some knowledge that most people wouldn't have.

Questioner

But will we see some of societies soon or is that further in the future?

Brandon Sanderson

*RAFOes* You'll find out.

Shadows of Self Portland signing (Oct. 10, 2015)

[Brgst13]

Also, Odium is blocked by his own power.  Shard v. Shard uses different powers, which may interact differently.

[Friendshipspren]

Huh I wonder if odium and cultivation cancel each other out 

[theTruthshaper]

Futuresight does not 'cancel' out. It just splits when you interact with another Futuresight user. Shards can still look at the possibilities.

i.e. Preservation completely trumps Ruin's futuresight, 'cause he can predict what Ruin would do after seeing the future.

Edit: Sort of like chess, but better.

Edited September 9, 2020 by The_Truthwatcher

[Thanatos]

Yes like all the shards are high on Atium.

Their future sight is like an atium allomancer dance.

[StanLemon]

22 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

Futuresight does not 'cancel' out. It just splits when you interact with another Futuresight user. Shards can still look at the possibilities.

i.e. Preservation completely trumps Ruin's futuresight, 'cause he can predict what Ruin would do after seeing the future.

Edit: Sort of like chess, but better.

This is more or less how I see it. Shards see multiple possibilities and the likelihood of those possibilities. It's just a matter of predicting what the other Shard will do with their predictions. Far easier said than done but seems to be the case

[Anticipationspren]

I have always thought of it causing a similar effect as two people burning atium what you end up with is a vision of possible futures then beacuse each shard is focused on the purpose (ruin wants to destroy, preservation wants to preserve) you will be able to find trends in the pattern which let you get a better idea of what will happen. I also believe that the stronger shards can see farther into the future which also will help narrow the paths some. The other shard will be able to see some of the same stuff but they are to focused on there goals and aren't likely to do something that does not help them archive it so they are allowing the likely paths to exist

[Eternal Khol]

the Shards see the Future in Different ways.

Which is why i think they actually have the ability to see Into the future instead of seeing constant black(Renarins name was blacked out when Odium showed taravangiam how far he sees) or atium shadows-like things

If Ruin can see into the future in a way Preservation cant, then there shouldn’t be any(or at least, less)resistance by another from another Shard seeing the future too

 

 

Questioner

When Wax is talking to Harmony he mentions 'the radio' and other things. Are there already societies that have things like that and how is he getting that information. Is it like a Spiritual Realm..

Brandon Sanderson

He knows things from his Ascension. He gain an innate knowledge of the universe in interesting ways. In addition, Preservation had some minor innate progno... he could see the future a little bit, and so could Ruin in a little different way. Let's just say that there are a bunch of things mixing together that give Harmony some knowledge that most people wouldn't have.

Questioner

But will we see some of societies soon or is that further in the future?

Brandon Sanderson

*RAFOes* You'll find out.

Shadows of Self Portland signing (Oct. 10, 2015)