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Navani's Critic?


Karger

Navani's Critic?  

146 members have voted

  1. 1. Who left the ruby?

    • Taravangain?
      1
    • Malata as a rouge agent?
      3
    • A sleepless
      53
    • A rouge sleepless?
      4
    • Odium's forces?
      1
    • Venli?
      4
    • A spren?
      22
    • The sibling?
      29
    • The GBs?
      1
    • Some other force of Odium's
      1
    • Other?
      13
    • Sja-anat
      14


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1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Sja-Anat. If it were another force of Odium with that capability, why not poison or a knife in her back? And few would have the capability of getting a gem into Navan's capsule.

Sorry I forgot that one fixed now.

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As much as I'd love it to be the Sibling, my best guess is one of the Sleepless. I find it very hard to believe that they would let the expedition leave Aimia without having some high-ranking spies amongst Team Radiant and it would be extremely easy for them to sneak in the ruby. Navani seems to be on the right track to figure out the Spiritual Realm and the origin of Surge fabrials, which likely leads to the Dawnshards - and these are extremely dangerous. The Honorspren are probably not to be trusted because they believe that Roshar is doomed anyway, while the Dysian Aimians are still willing to fight for it

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What about Renarin? This wouldn’t be the first time he’s left anonymous messages, and the bad handwriting is explained by his recent literacy. And Glys could have explained fabrials and his opinion on them to Renarin, maybe even dictated the messages to Navani. Plus, Renarin was on the 4th Bridge. It wouldn’t have been that difficult to sneak into Navani’s room and plant the ruby.

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I just mentioned on the Chapter 9 thread that I think it's a Sleepless. The cache they took on Aimia included tons of soulcasters that the Kaza interlude in OB demonstrated were to be protected at all costs. But if the Sleepless have been around millennia, surely they have seen other scholars like Navani, playing with things they have no business playing with--not grasping the ramifications of their actions beyond winning their "little" war. The Sleepless have long memories. And if understanding the soul casters means recreating the Dawnshards? Well...Navani is playing with fire, probably. 

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9 minutes ago, *{kara}* said:

What about Renarin? This wouldn’t be the first time he’s left anonymous messages, and the bad handwriting is explained by his recent literacy. And Glys could have explained fabrials and his opinion on them to Renarin, maybe even dictated the messages to Navani. Plus, Renarin was on the 4th Bridge. It wouldn’t have been that difficult to sneak into Navani’s room and plant the ruby.

Not bad handwriting.  Just written quickly.  Also why not just say something?  Everyone knows about his powers now.

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Who do we know who cares about spren, who could have feasibly discovered something about the suffering potential of non-sapient spren? Who has been passively observing spren-related phenomena for a long time ("I couldn’t watch any longer")? Who has good reason to believe they can stop a woman as powerful and well-connected as Navani if they have to?

I think it might be Axies.

Aside from that, I will say that the speech pattern reminded me of, well, Pattern. A kind of innocent, childlike bluntness. So another possibility is a rogue Cryptic (bonus points that they tend not to get along with Honorspren).

Edited by Jess
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2 minutes ago, Jess said:

I think it might be Axies.

While I love the possibility I think he might be a bit too single minded.  Unless he is trying to find conspiracyspren or intriguespren I don't think he could afford to take the time away from his important research. 

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The sleepless are a good guess.  The same fabrials that could capture a higher spren could conceivably also capture a sleepless.  This is a route of technological development that could potentially exterminate their race.

I wonder if it isn't a Herald.  Taravangian mentioned that Dova may be the Herald Batar, and we've seen Dova manipulate spanreed communication before to leak the information in the Eila Steele.

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Just now, Karger said:

While I love the possibility I think he might be a bit too single minded.  Unless he is trying to find conspiracyspren or intriguespren I don't think he could afford to take the time away from his important research. 

I don't think we really know enough about his personality to say this. He came across that way in his interlude, but that's just one interlude and a lot has changed since then. An immortal who spends their days goofing around cataloging spren, just to give themself something to do during "normal" times, could very well get more serious once the apocalypse starts. In fact the dialogue overall gives the feel of someone who has been passive or distracted for a long time finally finding themself moved to action by extraordinary circumstances.

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Somebody on the Tor.com thread raised the possibility of it being one of the Heralds. Which does kind of fit. The implication that the speaker believes herself to be a better authority on spren welfare than the Honorspren; the extreme but not entirely illogical viewpoint, the hypocrisy of using a fabrial to denounce fabrials, the secrecy... 

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1 minute ago, Gilphon said:

Somebody on the Tor.com thread raised the possibility of it being one of the Heralds. Which does kind of fit. The implication that the speaker believes herself to be a better authority on spren welfare than the Honorspren; the extreme but not entirely illogical viewpoint, the hypocrisy of using a fabrial to denounce fabrials, the secrecy... 

It's grasping at straws, but the handwriting being cramped and almost illegible could also make sense for an ancient Herald.  Handwriting styles change quite noticeably over time and the Herald might be writing in an older style from centuries past.

If not Batar, Paliah is a good possibility too.  Both their associated orders seem to focus on scholarly pursuits and would presumably have familiarity with fabrials.

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17 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

Somebody on the Tor.com thread raised the possibility of it being one of the Heralds. Which does kind of fit. The implication that the speaker believes herself to be a better authority on spren welfare than the Honorspren; the extreme but not entirely illogical viewpoint, the hypocrisy of using a fabrial to denounce fabrials, the secrecy... 

How would a Herald get a gem into the capsule? Walking up to an ardent and claiming to be a Herald is unlikely to work. Ghostbloods?

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26 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

The same fabrials that could capture a higher spren could conceivably also capture a sleepless.

I'm confused, how would that be possible? Spren are pure cognitive entities that are comprised of Investiture. The sleepless are a sapient species in the cosmere, a hivemind or collective entity. I don't follow you here.

 

I do think it is the sleepless though, I felt like the person on the other end of the Spanreed was speaking for more than just themselves and the powers of Soulcasters and whatever else Navani is toying with are aligned with the Sleepless' goals.

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48 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

Somebody on the Tor.com thread raised the possibility of it being one of the Heralds. Which does kind of fit. The implication that the speaker believes herself to be a better authority on spren welfare than the Honorspren; the extreme but not entirely illogical viewpoint, the hypocrisy of using a fabrial to denounce fabrials, the secrecy... 

I like the Herald theory. Just unhinged enough. 

I think one thing that is working against my sleepless theory is the focus on "Pain". not potential destruction. The message seems very much like a spren-rights activist (you know what I mean), almost such that it could be a spren. But spren with span reeds? Which sapient spren type would have one? Unless it's a rogue radiant. 

I kind of like the Axies (as a Siah Aimian) idea for this reason. He's maybe kind of of in the cognitive realm already (opposite shadow, remember) and is obsessed with spren. If he was trying to seek out purpose in his apparent immortality and connected enough with them that he started communicating with them, he might have found his purpose in advocating for them, no matter the cost. What does he care if there's a war if he'll live anyways? But that might be too central of a role for him in this book.

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I personally like Sja-Anat. We know she views spren as her children (corrupted ones at least), she is ostensibly trying to switch sides (the communication was not openly hostile, but was rather an ultimatum to change course), and Renarin under the influence of Glys could have hidden the Ruby and penned the Spanreed communication.

Also there's the bit about not being able to trust the Honorspren, maybe the reason they have retreated to Lasting Integrity is because they are worried about Sja-Anat corrupting them. This would seem a little far fetched if it weren't for the fact that Shallan has been tasked by the Ghostbloods to pursue Sja-Anat, that Sja-Anat has communicated to Shallan that she wants to switch sides, and that we know from the recent book description that Shallan's journey through Shadesmar has Lasting Integrity as its destination.

A lot of the narrative pieces fit, this is circumstantial proof to be sure, but I think it would be narratively compelling.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
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3 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Also there's the bit about not being able to trust the Honorspren, maybe the reason they have retreated to Lasting Integrity is because they are worried about Sja-Anat corrupting them. This would seem a little far fetched if it weren't for the fact that Shallan has been tasked by the Ghostbloods to pursue Sja-Anat, that Sja-Anat has communicated to Shallan that she wants to switch sides, and that we know from the recent book description that Shallan's journey through Shadesmar has Lasting Integrity as its destination.

What makes you think that the reference is to all Honorspren rather than the renegades bonding Knights Radiant?

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I thought the only people to have such strong emotions on the subject would point to a spren.  Which got me thinking about the Sibling because I don't know why another random spren would be brought into the storyline when the Sibling is already mysterious enough and knowing the Sibling will be somewhat part of the plot.  We don't know much about the sibling, there are cryptic clues that have led to some theories documented on the Shard though.

What if this spren is called the 'Sibling' because it considers itself a sibling to all spren.  This would give it the motivation to not like Navani and her work.  The Sibling slumbered because so many of its brothers and sisters lost their minds during the Recreance and it was too painful for the Sibling, hence why the Stormfather wants humans to let it rest.

This is the beginning of Navani's interactions with the Sibling, eventually leading to her bonding it. 

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