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RoW Chapter 9 Discussion

188 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Harbour said:

Scene when Shallan talked to Adolin, and then Veil emerged and started talking about Shallan in third person, was truly disturbing

Why?  Shallan is a different person.

3 minutes ago, Harbour said:

I feel really bad for Adolin who tries to keep sanity talking to wife who partly isnt his wife.

He is talking to a person who shares his wife's body.

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6 minutes ago, robardin said:

In another RoW Spoilers thread I theorized that perhaps Shallan's deeper secret is that she was not her mother's child - that her happy memories of being with her mother are fabrications - and that was why her mother found it so easy to try to kill her "suddenly". Was it sudden? What did she mean by "one of THEM?"

When she reflected to herself that "even Shallan is a lie" in this chapter, I started to really wonder, as you did here, how deep that goes... Yeesh.

Agree. This may go into the direction of fabricated family that adopted Shallan because someone asked them to adopt her.

Or maybe it was Shallan herself who subconsciously forced them to take her and supressed their and own memories about that to comfort her.

Or something even more wild, like her being some creature who seek for family and found it in Davar, and assimilated there, faking own persona and look.

 

Just now, Karger said:

Why?

He is talking to a person who shares his wife's body.

You answered your own question.

Edited by Harbour
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2 minutes ago, Harbour said:

You answered your own question.

You find that weird?

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Nalthis, Taldain, and Scadrial namedrop, I love it. I wonder if this is related to Brandon hinting that by the time RoW releases he will have canonized all the Shardic Intents... maybe we will get a new one in this book? :D

 

also, I can’t help but think that Lopen “almost dying a few months back” had to be at or related to Aimia. What in the Almighty’s Tenth Name happened there?? Dawnshard can’t come soon enough! 

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I'm just here to gloat. Navani, creator of great suffering? Of course, I called it based on the flavor text on Amazon! She's creating weapons of war using spren, and they don't like it.

Who sent the message? I'm thinking someone in Silverlight, possibly one of the spren themselves. If not them, then I'd guess Malata, who besides being attached to the Diagram hasn't revealed her loyalties. Also, who would want to distrust the Honorspren? Who are their rivals? I know the cryptics are set up as their opposite, but I'm not certain that makes sense for the actions we're seeing now.

As for the other....

Quote

It wasn’t just about him. What if Pattern knew? Dalinar? Her agents?

They would leave, and her life would become a wasteland. She’d be alone, as she deserved. Because of the truths she hid, her entire life was a lie. Shallan, the one they all knew best, was the fakest mask of them all.

I've been saying this since WoR, so it's nice to get some confirmation in black and white.

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1 hour ago, Innovation said:

Well, Radinet spren inside surge Fabrials confirmed. 

And there are both shards and soulcasters hidden in Aimia? Interesting. 

I have a feeling that this might be at least part of the answer of what happened to missing shardblades. The way Navani described them sounded kind of like dead eyes to me. I see two options here:

1) Some of the radiant Spren when their Radiants abandoned their oaths turned to Fabrials and not shardblades.

2) Someone at some point figured how to turn dead shardblades into Fabrials.

 

There is of course an option of making these fabrials using proto Radiants and traping the spren but that doesen't seem like it's the way really.

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3 minutes ago, Karger said:

You find that weird?

Yep, i find it disturbing.

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1 minute ago, Rainier said:

I've been saying this since WoR, so it's nice to get some confirmation in black and white.

But...but...Adolin knows Shallan is the real one. He knows her. That's what OB ending told me. And Adolin is never wrong!

In all seriousness though, I thought that after 3 years of not reading Stormlight, and stepping away from Brandon's work for a while that I would be over my distaste for the way Shadolin was done. (I still have not done a full reread of OB, and no reread of of the other books either). But nope, this chapter just brought it all back to me. I'll cop to that, I'll own it. I'm massively @#$-hurt over it, and it has become clear that time has not changed that fact. I don't know how I'm going to read a book where half the plot is going to involve a major journey of two characters whose interactions with each other trigger a mild form of revulsion in me. But, you know, that's my problem to figure it out, and it's not the end of the world if I don't. I'll just know its time for me to bow out of this series.

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20 minutes ago, Rainier said:

I've been saying this since WoR, so it's nice to get some confirmation in black and white.

5 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

But...but...Adolin knows Shallan is the real one. He knows her. That's what OB ending told me. And Adolin is never wrong!

Ah you forgot the beauty of an unreliable narrator.

5 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

But nope, this chapter just brought it all back to me. I'll cop to that, I'll own it. I'm massively @#$-hurt over it, and it has become clear that time has not changed that fact

Any particular reason?  Yeah they are still in the honeymoon phase but the will get over it.

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1 hour ago, Karger said:

That would be fun.  Only how would the Sibling arrange that?

I’m not sure, since we don’t know much about the Sibling. But it’s just what my first gut reaction was.

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32 minutes ago, Karger said:

You find that weird?

Why don't you find that weird?

31 minutes ago, Tezim said:

I have a feeling that this might be at least part of the answer of what happened to missing shardblades. The way Navani described them sounded kind of like dead eyes to me. I see two options here:

1) Some of the radiant Spren when their Radiants abandoned their oaths turned to Fabrials and not shardblades.

2) Someone at some point figured how to turn dead shardblades into Fabrials.

 

There is of course an option of making these fabrials using proto-Radiants and trapping the spren but that doesn't seem like it's the way really.

So, why aren't there fabrials for other surges? Only Transformation has fabrials, why are there no Progression fabrials anymore, in general use. Those are clearly at least as useful as soulcasters, if not more. Also, how is this connected to the fact that some soulcasters can only convert things into particular Essences? Does this change with the nature of spren? I don't think that the metal is so important in this. Otherwise, they would have at least partially cracked it.

Somewhat relatedly, where do the Oathgate spren come from? Those clearly aren't Radiant spren but are still sapient.

Edited by The_Truthwatcher
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AAAAAHHHH! I had to reread that paragraph like three times I was so excited!

Nalathis! Scadarial! Tal Dain! YEAH!

I'm liking my theory of one of our main characters going off-world by the end of book 4.

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1 minute ago, Goatbringer said:

AAAAAHHHH! I had to reread that paragraph like three times I was so excited!

Nalathis! Scadarial! Tal Dain! YEAH!

I'm liking my theory of one of our main characters going off-world by the end of book 4.

Alas this is a long way from being turned into weird world travel agency girl book.

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4 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

Why don't you find that weird?

Why should I?  I go to other worlds all the time.  Other people sharing a body does not seem particularly odd.

4 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

So, why aren't there fabrials for other surges? Only Transformation has fabrials, why are there no Progression fabrials. Those are clearly at least as useful as soulcasters, if not more

There were.  We see it in vision.

Edited by Karger
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1) Looks like the Stormlight addiction theory might be correct

2) Pewter flare! Hope the epigraphs don't stop just as we get to the Spiritual/Enhancement quadrant

3) Soulcasters have spren!?

4) Hmmm the person that warned Navani, a truth or a lie by Odium's forces or someone else? 

5) sweaty Adolin, eh? I completely understand, Shallan *wink*

6) Formless, fourth persona confirmed!

7) "main Shallan" also a mask confirmed!

8) Adolin is downright uncomfortable with the other personas and considers them separate people. I mean, I noticed this before, it's just so much more stark in this scene

9) My, oh my, mentions of other Shardworlds: Nalthis, Scadrial & Taldain (might the last one also be a neighbour then, another theory getting canon support!)

Edited by Honorless
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1 minute ago, Karger said:

Why should I?  I go to other worlds all the time.  Other people sharing a body does not seem particularly odd.

There were.  We see it in vision.

I meant in current times. (Outside of Nale, obviously) Should have made that clearer.

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1 minute ago, Karger said:

There were.  We see it in vision.

And we saw Radiants use them. I can’t imagine why Radiants would use trapped space to spren, at least some of the orders wouldn’t. 

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3 minutes ago, Honorless said:

8) Adolin is downright uncomfortable with the other personas and considers them separate people. I mean, I noticed this before, it's just so much more stark in this scene

Because they are separate people.

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6 minutes ago, Karger said:

Any particular reason?  Yeah they are still in the honeymoon phase but the will get over it.

Yes, several, but I don't really want to derail this thread as I've been known to do, so I'll try to send you a more detailed message at length when I have more time. I'll just say this for now:


I am not unhappy with their interactions as it is written now, per se. I am a big fan of all phases of love, and appreciate them for what they are and the role they play in the maturing of any relationship. I would in fact enjoy reading their "honeymoon" like stage a lot if it weren't for one thing: how we got here. What bothered me then, and continues to bother me now is how the build up to their marriage was written, and it's complete lacking of any kind of drama, tension, conflict, as well as its inclusion of another character that ultimately served no purpose for any of these things. Of course one could make the argument that they had this, it just took place at the very end of the book. However, I disagree with this argument, and have detailed it numerous times on this forum, and will do so again later in a more appropriate discussion form.

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Quote

But with the Oathgates, Navani could travel into Shadesmar—and everything in the Physical Realm reflected there. Human beings manifested as floating candle flames. Spren manifested as larger, or more complete versions of what was seen in the Physical Realm.

So Dalinar removed the ban on Shadesmar travel for the Oathgate Spren in the year in between? 

Sleepless makes sense as someone who could sneak a spanreed gem into the 4th bridge. I want it to be the Sibling communicating, but I don't see how that could be. 

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I just can't imagine that whoever is writing to Navani is the Sibing. Seems like a silly/contrived way to being them into the story.

I think it's a lot more likely that it's one of the Sleepless, a Willshaper, or just anything else for that matter.

Also I'm predicting that whoever is writing to Navani is a man, because Navani is assuming that it's a woman (understandably). Brandon has done this before, where a character assumes that another character that they've only heard about is a man/woman and it turns out the be the opposite. Since the Women's script is being written nearly illegibly it's probably someone who is unfamiliar with it or new at it, like a man perhaps.

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1 hour ago, Harrycrapper said:

That is kinda odd how we've had no Venli chapters or any flashbacks. I'm pretty sure there were flashback chapters in the part ones of the other books.

I think we'll get a Venli chapter soon, either next chapter, or the one after that at the latest, since we have winded down from the "climax". However, it seems like there won't be any flashbacks in part 1. Brandon recently said this over at Reddit:

Quote

Kinolee

It's surprising me to me that we haven't heard from Venli yet. Considering this is her book, I would have expected her to take more of a center stage. But we haven't even seen or heard from her yet, let alone had a flashback. I wonder why /u/mistborn decided to start elsewhere.

I suppose it's important to establish the time skip early on, but I wonder why that couldn't have been done from the perspective of Odium's forces so that Venli could take the lead.

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, this part you're reading is the "end" of the in-between book, and Venli's book hasn't started yet. Her first chapter is what you might consider the "true" beginning of the novel.

As a note, though, I decided her flashbacks worked better when spread across a shorter reading space--so I don't introduce them until later in the book than the others started.

 

Edited by Black_Shoshan
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Seems like Kal is experiencing withdrawal symptoms similar to Spook as a Tin Savant.  He has been getting supercharged with stormlight constantly since Oathbringer, that can't be healthy.  Also did Brandon ever answer swallowing infused gems like in Mistborn?

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1 hour ago, Karger said:

Could it be Venli?  I admit I don't think it is but that would be a cool thing to do.

Venli, as a parshendi, could both have extra motivation to agree with the use of fabrials, or disagree with it. Parshendi use their gemhearts to trap spren to achieve different forms, much in the same way that fabrials use them. A parshendi could therefore look at it as perfectly natural, or as a perversion of their individual relationship with spren, or appropriation of their lifestyle.

Sorry if the conversation had moved on from this- just thought i'd say it

Edited by Azarias
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So, something interesting popped out to me here about the fabrials.

Quote

Soulcasters manifested as small unresponsive spren, hovering with their eyes closed. So the Soulcasters did have a captured spren. A Radiant spren, judging by their shape. Intelligent, rather than the more animal-like spren captured to power normal fabrials.

While this is mostly as we expected, one part of it is not—the unresponsiveness. At least, I had not expected it because the Oathgate spren we see in Oathbringer are very responsive. There are two things this unresponsiveness brings to mind:

  1. The Sibling, who is currently "asleep"
  2. Syl after she lost her first Radiant

This brings up an interesting possibility. What if the unresponsiveness of the Soulcaster spren isn't a necessary part of their function? Perhaps more powerful fabrials, like the Oathgates and the one at the heart of Urithiru actually require that their spren are "awake," and the "sleeping" state of the Soulcaster spren is voluntary.

Syl cannot be the only spren who went asleep after losing their Radiant. How does spren society handle these spren? Maybe these spren decide to "volunteer" to serve as fabrials. This could explain why the ancient Radiants didn't consider them unethical. (or at least, they used the Progression fabrial. That said, it's also possible that they did consider it unethical but the life-saving potential of this particular fabrial outweighed that for some of the Orders).

(Edit: just realized that my reputation is now "Artifabrian". How timely!)

Edited by Lightspine
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