Kesamijr

New Shards Theories

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Posted (edited)

So I just watched Brandon’s Live Signing Session from Thursday and just saw the part where he said that by ROW we’ll have all (or close to all) 16 shards canonized! This seems like a big reveal to me as we only have 11 or 12 IIRC!
 

So then I wanted to start this thread to ask: do we have any new ones confirmed appearing in ROW/Dawnshard or if not how do you think we’ll get the new ones canonized and which ones will appear? Will Odium knowledge dump about the previous shards he’s killed? Will Khriss appear in ROW and spill some Realmatic knowledge? Kelsier? Do the Aimians know or is there something about the shards there? Will we learn something from the Shadesmar trip?

And then also which new shards will there be? I personally support the theories for Ingenuity, Wisdom and Prudence. (I know there’s a similarity there but there’s a WoB somewhere talking about how there are two that are pretty close.) I’d love to hear any others we have confirmed appearing or any theories y’all have too!

Edit:

My personal theory is that as things continue to escalate Hoid corresponds with a few new shards and then a couple are dropped in randomly by say, the Ghostbloods or some spren in Shadesmar. I don’t think most of the new ones will be tremendously important, but I bet it’ll be just some little name drops. That does raise the question though: why canonize Shards (when he’s been reluctant to for so long) for something as simple as a random namedrop here and there. So I think it’s possible that either Odium discusses some shards he’s killed or maybe some shards get involved somehow? Even with that though I think there are WoBs to say that SA is about Odium, Cultivation and Honor so interference is unlikely, so yeah I’m interested to hear what y’all think it is! 

As far as new shards I’m way less sure, I tried to think through it mapping out the shards like the Allomantic Table and ended up with these: 

Change: Ruin (In, Push), Preservation (In, Pull), Preservation (Ex, Pull), Endowment (Ex, Push)

Relationships: Honor (In, Pull), Autonomy (In, Push), Dominion (Ex, Pull), Devotion (Ex, Push) 

Feelings: Odium (Ex, Push), Anguish (Ex, Pull), Elation (In, Pull), Ataraxis (In, Push)

Decisions: Ambition (Ex, Push), Ingenuity (Ex, Pull) Wisdom (In, Push), Prudence (In, Pull)

Tbh, a lot of those feel like reaches so I don’t think I have a lot of this table right but I do agree with Prudence, Wisdom, Ingenuity and Anguish as new Shards! Excited to hear y’all theories!

Edited by Kesamijr
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Also while typing this my phone autocorrected Odium so Sodium so here’s my official pitch for a Sodium shard in rhythm of war 

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6 minutes ago, Kesamijr said:

Also while typing this my phone autocorrected Odium so Sodium so here’s my official pitch for a Sodium shard in rhythm of war 

Sodium: the shard of salt and gamer rage. :D

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15 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Sodium: the shard of salt and gamer rage. :D

:DHis Magic raises your blood pressure each time you use it 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Kesamijr said:

So I just watched Brandon’s Live Signing Session from Thursday and just saw the part where he said that by ROW we’ll have all (or close to all) 16 shards canonized! This seems like a big reveal to me as we only have 11 or 12 IIRC!

10 by my count.  I agree it is exiting.

1 hour ago, Kesamijr said:

So then I wanted to start this thread to ask: do we have any new ones confirmed appearing in ROW/Dawnshard

No.  I also don't think they will.  I see Odium's only three that should concern you as a way of telling the audience not to think about other shards showing up.

Edited by Karger
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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Kesamijr said:

So I just watched Brandon’s Live Signing Session from Thursday and just saw the part where he said that by ROW we’ll have all (or close to all) 16 shards canonized! This seems like a big reveal to me as we only have 11 or 12 IIRC!

That is great news. As for new shards I will stick to my old and simple theory that shards correspond to divine attributes, so in addition to Wisdom we should expect Justice, Mercy and Beauty.

Edited by Parallax
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4 hours ago, Kesamijr said:

So I just watched Brandon’s Live Signing Session from Thursday and just saw the part where he said that by ROW we’ll have all (or close to all) 16 shards canonized! This seems like a big reveal to me as we only have 11 or 12 IIRC!

Wow Wow Wow Pitch Meeting GIF - WowWowWow Wow PitchMeeting - Discover &  Share GIFs

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That seems super interesting!

Are these going to get transcribed to wob.coppermind.net ? I never end up seeing them but would love to read them

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I love the idea of Anguish as a Shard, but in the way I interpret it, it could be reframed as Empathy, although, being in a state of constant anguish because of the constant pain and suffering throughout the cosmere, its predominant feature is its anguish.

1 hour ago, Parallax said:

That is great news. As for new shards I will stick to my old and simple theory that shards correspond to divine attributes, so in addition to Wisdom we should expect Justice, Mercy and Beauty.

I do love these, but I think that under my interpretation of Anguish as empathy, mercy would be redundant as surely an empathetic shard would be a merciful one. Justice also seems an odd one because we have a knights radiant order framed around justice, and as the knights radiant are of honour and cultivation (and I think skybreakers lean heavily towards honour), it would be weird to have that much overlap.

I love the idea of wisdom and beauty as shards though!

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9 hours ago, Karger said:

10 by my count.  I agree it is exiting.

No.  I also don't think they will.  I see Odium's only three that should concern you as a way of telling the audience not to think about other shards showing up.

Oh yeah duh you’re right cuz Harmony ain’t OG! And I’m assuming for the Odium thing that’s something he said in a book at some point?

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When I saw the livestream, I'll be honest and say I took his words to mean that he, Brandon Sanderson, will have finished canonizing within Dragonsteel and his own planning the remaining Shards, not that they were in RoW (though I will be happily surprised if I am wrong and they are there - I don't remember his specific words right now). I imagine if they are in RoW that they are mentioned in Hoid Letters or in his monologue at the end - if I remember correctly Hoid's monologue at the end is a scene that Brandon Sanderson has been wanting to write since the very beginning and is a big thing.

As for you chart, I love the idea of using the Internal/External Push Pull method with 4 categories. Under change you have Preservation mentioned twice. Otherwise, I like your ideas!

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6 hours ago, Kesamijr said:

Oh yeah duh you’re right cuz Harmony ain’t OG! And I’m assuming for the Odium thing that’s something he said in a book at some point?

Yeah it is a pretty common way of letting the audience know when working in a shard universe.

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On 8/30/2020 at 2:42 PM, Kesamijr said:

So I just watched Brandon’s Live Signing Session from Thursday and just saw the part where he said that by ROW we’ll have all (or close to all) 16 shards canonized! This seems like a big reveal to me as we only have 11 or 12 IIRC!

Did he say that they would appear in RoW or just that he'd have finalized them himself?  

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On 9/1/2020 at 8:56 AM, Scion of the Mists said:

Did he say that they would appear in RoW or just that he'd have finalized them himself?  

He said they’d be canonized but the points people have made are right that might just mean for himself, though I think it was implied that they would be canonized to the general public! And since he said by the end of RoW that presumably means in RoW or Dawnshard somewhere but it could be something else 

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With respect to canonizing the shards if Brandon was referring to himself and not the readers wouldn't he use the past tense? After all he has finished writing.

@Azarias I consider Mercy and Empathy as distinct. Also Honor is about personal relationships while Justice is a universal concept. 

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Brandon does a lot of planning - I just assumed that that it was on his schedule to sit down and finish canonizing them, but I hope we do find out! It would be super exciting!

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Iirc, there was a WoB where he said, that he considers everything that is printed in the books as canon, and things that he has planned are not canon per se, because he tends to alter them aftewards.

Quote

Questioner

Out of the Cosmere, you have your whole plan, I'm assuming you have in your brain or written down... When do you finalize, like, whenever you're writing. Is it all finalized then?

Brandon Sanderson

...The books become the canon. Even the wiki is not canon. Until I write it into the books, it's not canon. For instance, you can go find Oaths of various orders of Knights Radiant in there, but I don't canonize those until I write the books, because I usually tweak some of the words. By the way, sometimes people ask me "Can you write an Oath of a Knights Radiant that we haven't seen yet?" in a book, and I always say no. Number one, like, if at the release party I got asked that, like, 8 times; we'd be out of Oaths by now. That's the same reason why I won't tell you the names of Shards that I haven't canonized, or their intents, or things like that. Until I get to it in the books, it's not canon. Because I need that flexibility going forward as I'm putting the whole thing together, to get all the puzzle pieces to fit.

Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017)

 

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4 hours ago, spaidapig said:

Iirc, there was a WoB where he said, that he considers everything that is printed in the books as canon, and things that he has planned are not canon per se, because he tends to alter them aftewards.

 

Dope! Then that means that yeah they're confirmed to appear in RoW or Dawnshard, barring some like surprise release of Dragonsteel on November 18th or something. :P But yeah that makes sense given that we say the other planets named in last weeks chapter, I can see the Ghostbloods having a lot of cosmere/realmatic influence and we get the shards from them somehow for sure!

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On 8/31/2020 at 4:29 AM, I Used To Be A Fish said:

Wow Wow Wow Pitch Meeting GIF - WowWowWow Wow PitchMeeting - Discover &  Share GIFs

U get an upvote for that Ryan George gif fam. Love that guy.

I personally am betting on the Shard of Depravity or Deprivation. Something cruel , cowardly and perhaps low key villainous. It's intent would basically be to increase suffering and warp ppl.

Imitation would also be a cool concept for a shard,  I think. 

I also have a bet on Erudition as a shard. This is perhaps just Wisdom percieved differently tho. 

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20 hours ago, Kesamijr said:

Dope! Then that means that yeah they're confirmed to appear in RoW or Dawnshard, barring some like surprise release of Dragonsteel on November 18th or something. :P But yeah that makes sense given that we say the other planets named in last weeks chapter, I can see the Ghostbloods having a lot of cosmere/realmatic influence and we get the shards from them somehow for sure!

This seems like a massive jump.  I find it very unlikely that Brandon would name-drop 6 brand new Shards in Rhythm of War, even if their names have been finalized.  

What exactly did he say on the live stream?  

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10 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

This seems like a massive jump.  I find it very unlikely that Brandon would name-drop 6 brand new Shards in Rhythm of War, even if their names have been finalized.  

What exactly did he say on the live stream?  

I also would be surprised if he named dropped them all as well. But I could see it happening if like a conversation of divine traits came up and someone like the Heralds or more likely Hoid listed off a series over traits like "to preserve and to destroy" and the like.

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On 04/09/2020 at 3:18 PM, PrinceGenocide said:

Something cruel , cowardly and perhaps low key villainous. It's intent would basically be to increase suffering and warp ppl.

Isn't that basically Ruin?

 

@Scion of the Mists @StanLemon didn't Brandon say that the end of RoW involves scenes that he has wanted to write since he started working on cosmere some 20 years ago? In that case we might have a shard fight. I can imagine Cultivation and Odium fighting it out and talking about pre-shattering and all the other vessels ...

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His exact wording is, that by the time RoW comes out, they will have canonized all 16, or nearly all 16 shards.

It's by minute 57 on average during a writing advice to foreshadowing.

So all in all, he will have canonized them, but we will most probably not know all of them, but I'm fairly certain, that at least a few will be dropped in RoW. Probably on the Epigraphs.

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1 hour ago, spaidapig said:

It's by minute 57 on average during a writing advice to foreshadowing.

Thanks! I've been missing out on the live streams.  

 

Quote

By the time Rhythm of War comes out, I think we will have canonized all 16 or very close to all 16.

I'm pretty sure this is just internal, Dragonsteel canonization.  

I would not combine this statement with the earlier clarification that "published works are the true canon" to mean that all 6 new Shards will appear in RoW.  

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44 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I'm pretty sure this is just internal, Dragonsteel canonization.  

I would not combine this statement with the earlier clarification that "published works are the true canon" to mean that all 6 new Shards will appear in RoW.  

Yes.

That's my conclusion after listening to the stream myself, too.

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