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Nightwatcher Bondsmith Theory


ftl

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I can't, even in my own mind, tell whether this is a crempost or a legitimate theory. But hear me out.

To fight off Odium, it seems like our heroes would need to complete the order of Bondsmiths - get all three. And man, that would be awesome.

Dalinar's bonded the Stormfather. That's one.

The Sibling is missing. However, there's a lot of story progress towards finding them.  Sibling's somehow connected to Urithiru, which is being investigated. Dalinar's asking questions of the Stormfather. So maybe Navani will be the one to bond the Sibling, since she's interested in fabrials and Urithiru's basically a giant fabrial. It's a reasonable possibility at least, one which wouldn't be totally out of left field.

But what about the Nightwatcher? There's been no story progress towards anybody "bonding" the Nightwatcher. She stays in her valley. The main characters mostly stay away from there. And we're running into character limitations - so many main characters already have Spren bonds, and we probably need one prominent character of each Radiant order, and it would feel anticlimactic if some random side character who we've never heard of until now appeared and within half a book became a Bondsmith, so who's even left? It would have to be someone we already know. Someone without a Spren bond. Someone who already has a history with Cultivation, since Cultivation would have to send the Nightwatcher out of the valley to make the bond and she'd probably go with someone she knows. That leaves one obvious candidate, and one inescapable conclusion: Taravangian is going to end up bonding the Nightwatcher! (Probably on one of his super-compassionate days. I hope. And then stabbing Odium in the back with his new powers.)

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Taravangian Bonding the Nightwatcher is a popular theory actually. What makes you think it couldn't be a new character? We've only had 3/10 books so far. Especially for a book the length of the Stormlight books, half a book is plenty of space for characterisation. Heck, a chapter in an interlude is enough for good characterisation, and we could get to know the character afterwards.

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25 minutes ago, Invocation said:

I'm still hoping Rlain ends up a Bondsmith, honestly.

Me too

11 hours ago, ftl said:

To fight off Odium, it seems like our heroes would need to complete the order of Bondsmiths - get all three. And man, that would be awesome.

For some reason this is something that never seems to be discussed (at least I've never seen a thread about it), but technically up to five Bondsmiths could exist simultaneously on Roshar. Three get their powers from godspren, one from Ishar's Honorblade and Syl's Interlude seems to indicate that (RoW spoilers)

Spoiler

people wielding Dawnshards also become Bondsmiths and there's at least one Dawnshard left on Roshar

 

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Okay, it’s a good theory, and totally could happen, but I’ve got a personal hope that keeps me from buying into it. I really don’t want taravangian to have a comeback arch. I don’t know if that’s what you’d even call it, since he thinks what he’s doing is right, but regardless, I don’t want it to happen. 

Spoiler

It might be that by the end of the story Odium is all alone, and everyone who used to be with him has seen the light, but I hope not. For the sake of story telling I hope there’s at least one character who stays bad. If everyone gets a comeback arch, comeback arch’s will mean less. Amaram is dead. Sadeas is dead. Venli is obviously coming to the good side. That leaves Moash and Taravangian. One of the two will probably get a comeback, personally I hope it’s Moash. Who knows, we are only 3 books in and anything could happen, but at this point of the story, im hoping taravangian will stay with Odium

One other thing that makes me hesitant is that Taravangian has already been to see the nightwatcher (though he ended up seeing cultivation of course), and again from a story telling perspective, I think it’ll be someone who’s been previously untouched by her. I would like to see Taravangian bond the sibling though. 

Now Rlain as the Nightsmith? That’s something I can get behind. Imagine him tired of being ignored, just wanting to be like everyone else, so he goes to seek the old magic. While he’s there, he bonds the nightwatcher. I think it’d be cool. 

Edited by Hentient
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On 31/08/2020 at 4:21 AM, Hentient said:

Imagine him tired of being ignored, just wanting to be like everyone else, so he goes to seek the old magic. While he’s there, he bonds the nightwatcher.

What boon would he seek though, that he may or may not get alongside the bond? Maybe he tries to get the ability to move into a form that looks very close to humans, or something like that to try and fit in. Maybe just to be made into a human as a whole? It would be interesting to have a Listener turned human character, and how they would reflect on the differences between the two species.

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42 minutes ago, Realmatic Shadow said:

What boon would he seek though, that he may or may not get alongside the bond? Maybe he tries to get the ability to move into a form that looks very close to humans, or something like that to try and fit in. Maybe just to be made into a human as a whole? It would be interesting to have a Listener turned human character, and how they would reflect on the differences between the two species.

He would go to the Nightwatcher after seeing a pitched battle between his adopted family (Bridge Four) and his species (Singers). He would ask to bring them together, to make them stop fighting each other.

Cultivation would give him a bond - the power to unite them, as a Bondsmith. With the "cost"/"curse" being the oaths he has to follow. It fits. Might be usurping Dalinar's role a bit, but that's to be expected if there are extra Bondsmiths.

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1 hour ago, Realmatic Shadow said:

What boon would he seek though, that he may or may not get alongside the bond? Maybe he tries to get the ability to move into a form that looks very close to humans, or something like that to try and fit in. Maybe just to be made into a human as a whole? It would be interesting to have a Listener turned human character, and how they would reflect on the differences between the two species.

 

20 minutes ago, ftl said:

He would go to the Nightwatcher after seeing a pitched battle between his adopted family (Bridge Four) and his species (Singers). He would ask to bring them together, to make them stop fighting each other.

Cultivation would give him a bond - the power to unite them, as a Bondsmith. With the "cost"/"curse" being the oaths he has to follow. It fits. Might be usurping Dalinar's role a bit, but that's to be expected if there are extra Bondsmiths.

Exactly! I’ve always hoped someone’s boon would be bonding the nightwatcher, and that’s the best scenario I’ve heard so far. Long story short, Rlain nightsmith is my new favorite thing. 

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15 minutes ago, ftl said:

He would ask to bring them together, to make them stop fighting each other.

Cultivation would give him a bond - the power to unite them, as a Bondsmith.

This certainly works much better than my silly idea, and could build upon the idea that Cultivation appears to have much more stake in this Desolation compared to previous ones, with characters such as Dalinar and Taravangian already having had the direct influence of Cultivation on them.

The same way that the Stormfather's bond is different now that Honor is gone, maybe with Cultivation being more active in the fight the Nightwatcher's bond and the associated powers differ from what they were historically?

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On 8/30/2020 at 0:21 PM, KandraAllomancer said:

Me too

For some reason this is something that never seems to be discussed (at least I've never seen a thread about it), but technically up to five Bondsmiths could exist simultaneously on Roshar. Three get their powers from godspren, one from Ishar's Honorblade and Syl's Interlude seems to indicate that (RoW spoilers)

  Hide contents

people wielding Dawnshards also become Bondsmiths and there's at least one Dawnshard left on Roshar

 

I think this is kind of right and kind of wrong. It's been a bit since I read the Syl interlude, but I recall her saying "A Bondsmith," no mention of Dawnshards. As we know, Bondsmiths are unique in that they require much larger spren than a typical Nahel Bond. Ishar was not a Bondsmith because he was given that Honorblade. He was bonded to Honor himself and was the Bondsmith that Syl was referring to when she said a Bondsmith created the Oathpact. I get the feeling the Dawnshards are fabrials that mimic part of what a Bondsmith can do just like a Soulcaster fabrial imitates what Lightweavers and Elsecallers can do. But wielding one does not make that person a Radiant as there is no bond involved. 

However, at one point there technically could have been 5 Bondsmiths. Three bonded to the Stormfather, Nightwatcher and Sibling respectively. One - specifically Ishar - bonded to Honor. And then possibly another bonded to Cultivation. Now, I've never heard anything about someone bonding Cultivation, but I believe it's technically possible, if improbable. Unless new information comes out, it doesn't seem like it ever happened and I doubt it will happen considering Culivation's general outlook these days. 

Assuming Cultivation isn't in the mix, the hard limit used to be 4 Bondsmiths but now that limit has been reduced to 3. As Honor has been Shattered, his remnants reside in the Stormfather, the amount of Bondsmiths seems to be set at 3. 

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2 hours ago, RazeU said:

Where does this information come from? Never heard that before but a lot of WOBs slip by me.

Syl's Interlude, from one of recent newsletters:

Spoiler
Quote

“Your abilities are what made the original Oathpact,” she said. “And they existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded. A Bondsmith connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world. A Bondsmith created—or at least discovered—the Nahel bond: the ability of spren and humans to join together into something better. You Connect things, Dalinar. Realms. Ideas. People.”

Dawnshards are not explicitly mentioned, but there's a striking similarity between this description and what they are supposed to do - hence the "seems to indicate"

 

1 hour ago, Harrycrapper said:

However, at one point there technically could have been 5 Bondsmiths. Three bonded to the Stormfather, Nightwatcher and Sibling respectively. One - specifically Ishar - bonded to Honor. And then possibly another bonded to Cultivation.

If we consider a (Nahel or otherwise) bond to be part of Bondsmith definition then the cap is obviously 3. I use a broader definition here - a Bondsmith is a person with access to both Tension & Adhesion, including their Spiritual aspects. Ishar's Honorblade apparently provides that, so I'm willing to use the name here. It's not as powerful as what Dalinar has, obviously, but I believe a person wielding this Honorblade could, for example, imprison an Unmade.  The same applies to (RoW spoilers)

Spoiler

Bondsmiths from Ashyn, as they clearly predate the discovery of Nahel bond. If they truly used Dawnshards, as I believe they did, then we can't assume they bonded with Honor (or Cultivation). We have no idea where the Dawnshards came from (for all we know  they might be of another Shard or some remnant from Yolen) or if there was even some presence of H+C on Ashyn

 

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1 hour ago, KandraAllomancer said:

Syl's Interlude, from one of recent newsletters:

  Hide contents

Dawnshards are not explicitly mentioned, but there's a striking similarity between this description and what they are supposed to do - hence the "seems to indicate"

 

If we consider a (Nahel or otherwise) bond to be part of Bondsmith definition then the cap is obviously 3. I use a broader definition here - a Bondsmith is a person with access to both Tension & Adhesion, including their Spiritual aspects. Ishar's Honorblade apparently provides that, so I'm willing to use the name here. It's not as powerful as what Dalinar has, obviously, but I believe a person wielding this Honorblade could, for example, imprison an Unmade.  The same applies to (RoW spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Bondsmiths from Ashyn, as they clearly predate the discovery of Nahel bond. If they truly used Dawnshards, as I believe they did, then we can't assume they bonded with Honor (or Cultivation). We have no idea where the Dawnshards came from (for all we know  they might be of another Shard or some remnant from Yolen) or if there was even some presence of H+C on Ashyn

 

I still say what Syl is referring to is Ishar bonded to Honor, though I suppose it is possible his pre-Oathpact powers came from a Dawnshard.  However, we know Ishar was bonded to Honor in some way before the Oathpact and the forming of the Heralds. We also know Ishar was the Herald who helped create the Oathpact and organized Surgebinders into Radiant orders when the Heralds discovered them, so I doubt she is referring to someone else there. 

I do consider the bond part of the definition, it's important. The Bondsmiths are said to have unique powers depending on the Spren they bond. And as Syl says, the powers of a Bondsmith existed before Bondsmiths. So, there's definitely a difference between modern Bondsmiths and what we call proto-Bondsmiths. They are an order of Knights Radiant, not just a broad term for a person with access to those specific Surges. Szeth had the powers of a Windrunner but he was not a Windrunner, Syl made a special point of that. Likewise, someone with Ishar's Blade has the Surges of a Bondsmith, but is not one. And even then, I feel the Godspren have offer unique abilities beyond those surges, like Dalinar's ability to open a perpendicularity to the spiritual realm. 

But even going with the broad definition of Bondsmith = someone with Adhesion + Tension, the maximum is not fixed at 5. The Bondsmiths can have squires just like some of the other orders, so there could be dozens, if not more, people that can access those powers, though probably limited access. 

Yes, I'm splitting hairs here. No, this stuff isn't clearly defined. But I personally would hesitate to call anyone with with the same Surges as an order by the title of that order. 

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On 3.09.2020 at 0:27 AM, Harrycrapper said:

I do consider the bond part of the definition, it's important.

Honorblades are pieces of Honor's soul and are bonded by individuals, so the bond is here - just not a Nahel one. But I agree, the definition gets fuzzy in this case

 

On 3.09.2020 at 0:27 AM, Harrycrapper said:

I still say what Syl is referring to is Ishar bonded to Honor, though I suppose it is possible his pre-Oathpact powers came from a Dawnshard.  However, we know Ishar was bonded to Honor in some way before the Oathpact and the forming of the Heralds. We also know Ishar was the Herald who helped create the Oathpact and organized Surgebinders into Radiant orders when the Heralds discovered them, so I doubt she is referring to someone else there. 

What she says is definitely mostly about Ishar, but (RoW spoilers)

Spoiler

she mentions Bondsmiths (plural) and their ability to bind Surges in a non-Nahel way - presumably fabrials. This is what leads me to the connection between Bonsmiths and Dawnshards

I think that's how Navani could become a Bondsmith without bonding the NW or the Sibling

Edited by KandraAllomancer
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