Lerasatium Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Not sure if this belongs here or in the Stormlight forum, but does anyone else think the Expanse of the Broken Sky in Shadesmar would lead to Taldain? We already know that Vapors and Densities lead to Scadrial and Sel, respectively. The Expanse of Vibrance likely leads to Nalthis (which I found on the Coppermind), but there's nothing about where Broken Sky might lead. Personally, I think Taldain fits perfectly because of binary star system keeps the planet locked in place, creating a clear "break" in the sky between Dayside and Darkside. Let me know what y'all think 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 It's a popular theory, other popular contenders are Ashyn & Threnody 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 12 hours ago, Honorless said: It's a popular theory, other popular contenders are Ashyn & Threnody Shouldn't the planets of the same star system be adjacent to each other in Shadesmar? And given that the continent of Roshar is almost exclusively on the southern hemisphere, towards the sun should be north. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerasatium Posted August 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Shouldn't the planets of the same star system be adjacent to each other in Shadesmar? And given that the continent of Roshar is almost exclusively on the southern hemisphere, towards the sun should be north. If you orient the map of Shadesmar so that the Expanse of Vapors lines up with Scadrial on the cosmere star chart, then Taldain & Threnody both fit the general direction of Broken Sky (Ashyn is probably accessible through Shadesmar too, but I think the Expanses are probably meant for "big" worldhopping). I think Taldain is the most likely option & it's a straight shot when the maps are lined up, but Brandon's said that space is weird in the cognitive realm, so it really could be anywhere (after all, it only took Kelsier a few weeks to get from Scadrial to Sel[?] as a cognitive shadow) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Shouldn't the planets of the same star system be adjacent to each other in Shadesmar? Its Shadesmar. Placement depends on how people in Physical Realm sees that. So this is why between Planets are reflected as plains surrounded by mountains - mountains reflects unacessable terrain. Distance in Physical Realm doesnt matter - people sees planets as independent areas, and is impossible (to most) to leave planet, so if other Planet is in the same System, or on other edge of Cosmere, it doesnt matter - is hard to reach equaly. Of course, distance in Shadesmar is relative, because places when nothing living existad also doesnt existed in CR, so I think is equaly hard in Shadesmar reach Ashyn or Scadrial. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, Lerasatium said: If you orient the map of Shadesmar so that the Expanse of Vapors lines up with Scadrial on the cosmere star chart, Now, I may be dense, but that chart shows Roshar. Hence it cannot be drawn from the perspective of Roshar. I always assumed it to be drawn on Yolen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerasatium Posted August 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Now, I may be dense, but that chart shows Roshar. Hence it cannot be drawn from the perspective of Roshar. I always assumed it to be drawn on Yolen. Sorry, I should’ve been clearer. If you orient the Shadesmar map with Roshar as the center & the Expanse of Vapors in the top right to line up with Scadrial, it all lines up like I described. You might be on to something with the chart as a whole being drawn on Yolen Edited August 29, 2020 by Lerasatium 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, Lerasatium said: Sorry, I should’ve been clearer. If you orient the Shadesmar map with Roshar as the center & the Expanse of Vapors in the top right to line up with Scadrial, it all lines up like I described. You might be on to something with the chart as a whole being drawn on Yolen Well, but these stars must be relativey close together, so the map must look totally different from each of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 On 8/29/2020 at 6:59 AM, Lerasatium said: (after all, it only took Kelsier a few weeks to get from Scadrial to Sel[?] as a cognitive shadow) He wasnt even close to Sel lol he was still in the same solar system Questioner So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. So when Kelsier is in Shadesmar, he meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrians. How far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's within-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into, kind of, the darkness between planets. Questioner Okay. Brandon Sanderson He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system. Questioner Okay, so he's still in the Scadrian system, just not--just edging a bit there. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yep. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point him in that <a map>. It gets really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like, he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense. Questioner That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but... Brandon Sanderson It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah Questioner Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or-- Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it. If people are thinking about it - like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't. Questioner So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware of its presence, would it... Brandon Sanderson It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause-- but thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hokey, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that. Questioner That's interesting. Brandon Sanderson You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar. White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerasatium Posted September 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said: He wasnt even close to Sel lol he was still in the same solar system Questioner So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. So when Kelsier is in Shadesmar, he meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrians. How far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's within-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into, kind of, the darkness between planets. Questioner Okay. Brandon Sanderson He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system. Questioner Okay, so he's still in the Scadrian system, just not--just edging a bit there. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yep. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point him in that <a map>. It gets really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like, he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense. Questioner That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but... Brandon Sanderson It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah Questioner Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or-- Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it. If people are thinking about it - like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't. Questioner So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware of its presence, would it... Brandon Sanderson It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause-- but thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hokey, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that. Questioner That's interesting. Brandon Sanderson You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar. White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016) Hence the question mark after Sel in my original thought. Thanks for pointing out this WoB, makes things much easier 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiberty Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 The strange thing is that even though Kelsier seemed to be between Sel and Scadrial in the cognitive realm, Densities and Vapors are on opposite sides of the Shadesmar map. Picturing this as 2D maps stitched together, that doesn't make much sense to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, Chiberty said: The strange thing is that even though Kelsier seemed to be between Sel and Scadrial in the cognitive realm, Densities and Vapors are on opposite sides of the Shadesmar map. Picturing this as 2D maps stitched together, that doesn't make much sense to me. That is to be expected. The distances and angles are still right. This is impossible on a flat projection of a globe. We must conclude that it does not obey the laws of Euclidean geometry. That is, if A is northwest and B southwest from C, going south from A is not necessarily going to take you to B. We do know that the voidspren arrived at the area of Tukar. So unless they took a detour that should be the place next to Braize. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 I feel like I should point out that no one actually said the Ire fortress was between Scadrial and Sel, just that the fortress is on the edge of Scadrial's subastral. It would sort of be like starting in Portugal and going east across Europe, arriving in Moscow and finding the Brazilian Embassy. It's not that you're walking toward Brazil, just that a small population of Brazilians is on the eastern side of Europe, and you just happened to find them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Sliver Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 On 8/28/2020 at 9:41 PM, Lerasatium said: Not sure if this belongs here or in the Stormlight forum, but does anyone else think the Expanse of the Broken Sky in Shadesmar would lead to Taldain? We already know that Vapors and Densities lead to Scadrial and Sel, respectively. The Expanse of Vibrance likely leads to Nalthis (which I found on the Coppermind), but there's nothing about where Broken Sky might lead. Personally, I think Taldain fits perfectly because of binary star system keeps the planet locked in place, creating a clear "break" in the sky between Dayside and Darkside. Let me know what y'all think I've always thought it was Threnody because the fight between Ambition and Odium did a lot of collateral damage and that might be seen from Shadesmar as a broken expanse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) On 5/10/2021 at 6:46 PM, Infinitysliver said: I've always thought it was Threnody because the fight between Ambition and Odium did a lot of collateral damage and that might be seen from Shadesmar as a broken expanse That is why it's a popular theory! On 8/29/2020 at 8:29 PM, Lerasatium said: If you orient the map of Shadesmar so that the Expanse of Vapors lines up with Scadrial on the cosmere star chart, then Taldain & Threnody both fit the general direction of Broken Sky (Ashyn is probably accessible through Shadesmar too, but I think the Expanses are probably meant for "big" worldhopping). I think Taldain is the most likely option & it's a straight shot when the maps are lined up, but Brandon's said that space is weird in the cognitive realm, so it really could be anywhere (after all, it only took Kelsier a few weeks to get from Scadrial to Sel[?] as a cognitive shadow) The Ire were not near Sel's subastral but Threnody's. The Ire mention something about "the powers of Threnody wanting to join the stage" and worried about Shades possibly reaching their fortress somehow Edited June 13, 2021 by Honorless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Sliver Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 19 hours ago, Honorless said: That is why it's a popular theory! ooooo,never knew that tbh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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