Odium's perpendicularity

[desi_sparta]

Hey guys, just had a weird thought. If the highstorm is Honor's perpendicularity, then is the everstorm Odium's perpendicularity? For that matter, does that mean that every unmade, being a concentration of investiture, can be used as a perpendicularity?

Edited August 27, 2020 by desi_sparta

[Quantus]

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Hey guys, just had a weird thought. If the highstorm is Honor's perpendicularity, then is the everstorm Odium's perpendicularity?

According to the Stormfather, Odium "Rides" the Everstorm the same way Honor used to Ride the stormfather. For now the implication is that Odium uses the Everstorm as a conduit for his perpendicularity (to resurrect the fused and whatnot) but that it takes some more active effort/participation to activate than your standard shardpool.

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For that matter, does that mean that every Jade, being a concentration of investiture, can be used as a perpendicularity?

Jade has no particular significance in the Cosmere, and is not a concentration of Investiture.  In the Cosmere, Investiture in solid form manifests as Metals (for reasons yet to be revealed). 

But for the most part no, it takes a particularly large concentration of Investiture to cause the realmic gravity well that is a perpendicularity, your average chunk of god-metal wont necessarily do it.  Or you need to have a specially adapted means of making a mini-perpendicularity to transition, like the Elsecallers' Transportation Surge, or the Oathgates.  

[+Bzhydack]

13 minutes ago, desi_sparta said:

Hey guys, just had a weird thought. If the highstorm is Honor's perpendicularity, then is the everstorm Odium's perpendicularity? For that matter, does that mean that every Jade, being a concentration of investiture, can be used as a perpendicularity?

Highstorm isnt "full" Perpendicularity. Cannot be used for travel between realms, can "only" provide Investiture. Everstorm is something similar, and probably cannot be used as normal perpendicularity either.

I bet that Odium has Perpendicularity on Braize.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Bzhydack

[desi_sparta]

8 minutes ago, Quantus said:

According to the Stormfather, Odium "Rides" the Everstorm the same way Honor used to Ride the stormfather. For now the implication is that Odium uses the Everstorm as a conduit for his perpendicularity (to resurrect the fused and whatnot) but that it takes some more active effort/participation to activate than your standard shardpool.

Jade has no particular significance in the Cosmere, and is not a concentration of Investiture.  In the Cosmere, Investiture in solid form manifests as Metals (for reasons yet to be revealed). 

But for the most part no, it takes a particularly large concentration of Investiture to cause the realmic gravity well that is a perpendicularity, your average chunk of god-metal wont necessarily do it.  Or you need to have a specially adapted means of making a mini-perpendicularity to transition, like the Elsecallers' Transportation Surge, or the Oathgates.  

Stupid autocorrect. Changed unmade to jade. Do we have an WoB then about Honor's perpendicularity on Toshar? Cuz I was under the assumption from all the talk about Honour's perpendicularity being dangerous and unpredictable, that they were talking about the highstorm only. 

[Gilphon]

So the Honor's Perpendicularity being the Highstorm is an appealing idea, but there's nothing in the text that actually suggests that- we see Jasnah enter the PR from what must be Honor's Perpendicularity at the end of Words of Radiance, and she was just randomly in the middle of nowhere, without the Highstorm being anywhere near. Plus, when they're trekking though Shadesmar is Oathbringer, they pass through the Highstorm several times without even discussing the possibility to trying to use it to cross over. And the Highstorm isn't particularly dangerous in Shadesmar. 

And certainly Dalinar didn't summon the Highstorm when he summoned Honor's Perpendicularity. 

[DracostarA]

13 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

So the Honor's Perpendicularity being the Highstorm is an appealing idea, but there's nothing in the text that actually suggests that- we see Jasnah enter the PR from what must be Honor's Perpendicularity at the end of Words of Radiance, and she was just randomly in the middle of nowhere, without the Highstorm being anywhere near. Plus, when they're trekking though Shadesmar is Oathbringer, they pass through the Highstorm several times without even discussing the possibility to trying to use it to cross over. And the Highstorm isn't particularly dangerous in Shadesmar. 

And certainly Dalinar didn't summon the Highstorm when he summoned Honor's Perpendicularity. 

I don't think Jasnah came through with Honor's Perpendicularity. I think that was just her using the Surge of Transportation, since Hoid asks her

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Did you need to Elsecall this far out in the middle of nowhere?

So I think it's an ability of Elsecallers as opposed to using a Perpendicularity.

[Gilphon]

We actually have a WoB saying that although it's possible for Transportation to do that, Jasnah doesn't know how: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/398-prague-signing/#e13196

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Questioner

Can you tell me anything about the Elsecallers we don't know yet?

Brandon Sanderson

They should be able to get back out of Shadesmar without having to find a perpendicularity, but Jasnah doesn't know how to do it yet. She should be able to do that, she just hasn't figured it out.

So Honor's Perpendicularity was the only thing that could've been.

[Quantus]

40 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

We actually have a WoB saying that although it's possible for Transportation to do that, Jasnah doesn't know how: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/398-prague-signing/#e13196

So Honor's Perpendicularity was the only thing that could've been.

100% devils advocate statements:  Unless you believe that Elsecallers can do something like traditional point-to-point teleportation (RoW Spoiler: 

Spoiler

heavily implied by Kaladin

If so, then the possibility could remain that she transitioned elsewhere and what we saw was her teleporting to that location (for reasons unknown). 

And beyond that, the WOB just says she hasnt figured out how to do it yet, but she did it by accident once to get stuck in shadesmar, so she could have accidentally done it again once she regained a sufficient stormlight supply. 

[Gilphon]

The WOB is saying she hasn't figured how to go from Shadesmar to the PR; she can go from the PR to Shadesmar just fine. 

Also, in Oathbringer, when asked about why she took so long to get back, she talks about how travel to Shadesmar is easier and says that she needs to find a place where the realms were closer together in order to get back. Which certainly sounds like she had to use a Perpendicularity. 

I suppose it's theoretically possible that she could've transitioned somewhere other than the spot in the middle of nowhere where Hoid was hanging out and then teleported to Hoid, but that would be a very strange thing for her to do, given that she didn't even know Hoid was there. 

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, Gilphon said:

I suppose it's theoretically possible that she could've transitioned somewhere other than the spot in the middle of nowhere where Hoid was hanging out and then teleported to Hoid, but that would be a very strange thing for her to do, given that she didn't even know Hoid was there. 

Agreed, though just to throw out a random possibility: maybe she wasnt there to see Hoid, maybe she was there to see the "Cremling" that Hoid was talking to.  

[datalaughing]

I always thought that Jasnah appeared somewhere near the perpendicularity on the Peaks. She didn't come out of the water like we hear about Hoid doing, but with her powers, just being near the perpendicularity might be enough to let her teleport through without actually having to get wet, which seems like a very Jasnah thing to want to do, to me. 

That being said, I went back and read that section, and now I'm not so sure. There's not a lot of details. I think this is the bit that always made me thing the Peaks:

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Very few trees here, though farther west a true forest sprouted on the slopes down from the heights.

As if he's at the top of a very elevated area, so high up that trees don't grow. Though other details seem to contradict that thought:

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Extending in all directions were rolling hills, furrowed by passing water and grown over in the valleys with an odd kind of briar.

Rolling hills does not sound like the top of a mountain, unless there's a whole lot of space up there on this particular peak, which I suppose is possible?

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A small river gurgled nearby, one of the few permanent waterways in this strange land.

Strange land, well, that could be practically anywhere, but one of the few permanent waterways implies that there are many temporary waterways. And the previous quote talks about the hills being furrowed by passing water. Temporary waterways created by highstorms, maybe? Or by melting snow, depending on the season? I don't know. 

I guess it's possible my original idea of it being the Peaks is still possible, but it seems less likely the closer i look, and he doesn't mention the presence of a pool nearby anywhere. So maybe I was completely off base. 

Looking at it now and comparing it to the map of Roshar, my first thought is Shinovar or maybe somewhere near Urithru/The Valley in those mountains. Shinovar could be "strange land" compared to the rest of Roshar at least, and a "true forest" might make more sense in Shinovar than elsewhere. The Valley might also constitute "strange land." Neither of those seems terribly likely, though, because the area around the valley would be so near Urithru that they could get there quickly (probably, depends on if it's actually impossible to get there on foot). And he later says:

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The storm should hit Shinovar tonight, then work its way across the land.

Which doesn't sound like he's there, to me at least. No particular concern about the imminent storm. 

So, basically, all of my ideas seem to have been wrong, and I am contributing nothing here. Ignore me.