Stormlight Addiction?

[DracostarA]

Reading Chapter 8 made me wonder why Kaladin suddenly seemed to react so strongly to what Moash was saying and I think there's a factor outside his depression. I think it's significantly linked to him running out of Stormlight just at that moment.

Ever since the beginning Kaladin described the intense feeling of taking in Stormlight, and I think he's been self-medicating his depression by using Stormlight excessively. The feeling of that takes his negative thoughts away and so he's now become accustomed to having it when he's in stressful situations (i.e. fights). I think his reaction to Moash makes a lot more sense when looking at it as Kaladin having a 'come-down' from this 'drug' as he's now not used to dealing with these thoughts on his own anymore, which is why Moash's words affect him so much in this more vulnerable state.

Edit: This might be a precursor to Stormlight Savantism where you struggle to function normally without it?

Edit 2: Upon rereading the chapter, there's a marked difference between Kaladin's attitude to Moash before vs after he's run out of Stormlight. Compare the last thing he says to Moash before he runs out of Stormlight 

Quote

“I said shut up!” Kaladin shouted.

to the first thing he says after

Quote

“No…” Kaladin whispered.

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by DracostarA

[bdoble97]

Great topic. When I read the title I said out loud hell yea I'm addicted to Stormlight Archives hahha. Tou bring up good points. Kaladin has been depending on storm light to solve alot of his problems when he fights he probably also use it in every day thing that he doesn't even realize 

[RazeU]

This is an epic topic and I hope it gets the attention it deserves. I’ve given it a little thought before now but haven’t come to any definite belief on my part other than it’s definitely plausible. 

Teft and his addiction issues being in a position so close to Kaladin also raises the plausibility of this to me. Simply due to the fact that those interactions and discussions are so easy to imagine and potentially dramatic interventions.

Also it’s a possible explanation for what Kal is doing with the surgeons instead of being in the field later in the book... something constructive to do while “detoxing”? 

 

[agrabes]

Yeah, really interesting idea.  Totally would make sense if it's true.

That said, I'm not sure I actually want it to happen.  Somehow it makes the story seem sad if the Radiants can become addicted to Stormlight and get messed up like that.

[Honorless]

Oh no..... this seems entirely too plausible... oh, Kaladin 

[Master Silver]

We saw this very thing throughout TWOK and WOR. When Sanderson would take about his training the troops or even going up for guard duty at the palace. Then when Syl almost died Kaladin reflected on how much of it was the bond and how much of it was him. But he also realized how dependent he had been on stormlight. and several times he mentions how relying on it or drawing in too much could be dangerous. @DracostarA great observation. I'm unsure when the Syl interlude is but all of this must be connected. I think the 4th ideal must really help the Radiants stabilize. Not that depression or anything else goes away. But they can now be considered masters to focus more on helping others make the leap. 

[IcaroRibeiro]

Quality theory, take my upvote 

 

Anyone else entered in this thread thinking this was a discussion about how we fans are addicted to Stormlight Archive ?

Edited August 26, 2020 by IcaroRibeiro

[dgreene196]

I could definitely see Stormlight as a form of self-medication for certain mental health disorders, though I don't quite see it as an addiction in and of itself.

From the experiences described to me by someone I know well, it can be hard to get up, to move, to do anything when depression flares.  And we've certainly seen from Kaladin, particularly at the beginning of The Way of Kings, when he can barely find the energy to talk to a fellow slave in a cage.

Stormlight, though, encourages action, movement.  After bonding the Stormfather, Dalinar notes, "It urged him to act, to move, to not stand still."  If you're dealing with depression, that sounds like a great treatment, however transient, to face the struggle of getting out of bed, of just completing the activities of daily living.

Of course, as noted, it doesn't last long.  I'd compare it to Dalinar's drinking post-Rathalas.  The Stormlight takes the edge off the depression, overcomes the inability to move, just as the alcohol kept Dalinar from hearing the voices of the dead, but only for awhile.

Eventually, he'll have to find a way to achieve a real balance in his life.

[+JesterLavorre]

If I remember correctly radiants are protected from becoming a savant by the nahel bond. However, I do like the idea that Kal has some solely non-magical mental problems from holding so much stormlight. He’s also been exhausted lately, and, as some other said maybe using stormlight to counteract that somehow.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Kal’s sudden change in attitude when he runs out of stormlight is some combination of an addiction/reliance on stormlight, and his body suddenly realizing he’s so exhausted without that stormlight.

[DracostarA]

2 hours ago, dgreene196 said:

Of course, as noted, it doesn't last long.  I'd compare it to Dalinar's drinking post-Rathalas.  The Stormlight takes the edge off the depression, overcomes the inability to move, just as the alcohol kept Dalinar from hearing the voices of the dead, but only for awhile.

Eventually, he'll have to find a way to achieve a real balance in his life.

From what I know about depression, medicine helps recovery but only alongside therapy, so eventually you will no longer be reliant on the medicine. Medicine alone is not the solution and leaves people prone to backsliding once off meds, and I think that's what Kaladin has been doing: powering through his exhaustion and dark thoughts by self-medicating and ignoring them, instead of dealing with his issues in a healthy manner. I think part of his arc in RoW will be finally coming to terms with this.

[earthexile]

I've spent some time with psychedelic substances, and the descriptions of being filled with Stormlight always make me think of those times. The way the world becomes more vibrant, more alive, and you feel full of light and potential. You can see every blade of grass, you almost think you can see the wind. The world seems to sing and dance. Your mind works differently, more positive and active. And then when it's over, you're absolutely drained on every level. 

I can imagine a deeply depressed person becoming addicted to that sort of sensation. Personally I can only enjoy it once or twice a year, anything more and I think I'd start to have a real hard time with real life. 

[Zelly]

Interesting topic!  I immediately thought of a scene from WoR, when Kaladin had been in prison for awhile.  There are spheres outside his cell and he is desperate to get the Stormlight.  He succeeds in drawing stormlight, but it was difficult for him because he made conflicting promises and his ideals were unstable.

In the scene, he has NO real need for stormlight.  He is not hurt, fighting, or anything else.  He is sliding towards the void and just wants to feel alive.  Which, yeah, sounds a lot like addiction.

If it is the case, I wonder if Teft will be the one to confront it.

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 8/26/2020 at 11:33 AM, agrabes said:

Yeah, really interesting idea.  Totally would make sense if it's true.

That said, I'm not sure I actually want it to happen.  Somehow it makes the story seem sad if the Radiants can become addicted to Stormlight and get messed up like that.

You can get addicted to

Spoiler

Allomancy. See Spook for someone who was doing something similar. 

I’m getting serious deja vu vibes.

[Subvisual Haze]

I think it's more that even a small amount of Stormlight grants you a degree of protection to the influence of the Unmade.  Once he exhausted all of his Stormlight reserves, he was wide open to mental influence.  I think it derives from the natural tendency for investiture to resist applications of investiture.

It's not absolute protection (we saw Dalinar still being impacted by the Thrill despite using Stormlight), but I think in Dalinar's case that was a function of connection with Odium due to past actions.  Kaladin has no innate connection to the Unmade/Odium, but if he's in close proximity of one and without Stormlight he can become vulnerable.

[Harbour]

While i like this theory, i dont want it to become the major point of Kaladin's arc. If Brandon started to explore it in WoR, it would have enough room to deal with.

In second to last book though... i dont want it to interrupt the ongoing narrative about Kaladin struggles (honor, not killing people, being alone and so on).

Its the same as with Shallan's kid. Its fun stuff to explore. But its too late to dive deep into it now. We have only two books left and so so so much stuff to solve even without Stormlight addiction.

Id like Brandon to go with this idea for Teft. For Teft the addiction is the major point of the character arc. Stormlight addiction plot would fit him greatly.

Dont add another brick of crem for Kaladin to deal with. He has already enough problems to struggle with.

[+Bzhydack]

17 minutes ago, Harbour said:

 

Id like Brandon to go with this idea for Teft. For Teft the addiction is the major point of the character arc. Stormlight addiction plot would fit him greatly.

But Teft, as expirienced with Addiction, more likely can recognise that Stormlight can be addictive. So will be very good person to help Kal and pull out him from this.

[Shardsplinter]

“Kaladin,” Syl said, “it’s getting worse. This… distance to your expression, this fatigue. It happens whenever you run out of Stormlight. As if… you can only keep going while it’s in you.”

It's sure starting to seem like if not the main problem Stormlight addiction does play a big role on Kal. Ooohh, poor Kal, reading his POV through chapter 9 just killed me. I need him to get better, he desearves it!!!

[Gderu]

I don't think it's an addiction, more of an overreliance on it. I would imagine that Kaladin uses stormlight to keep going and ignore his problems, but it doesn't seem like he is actually addicted to it. It's just that without the stormlight, he doesn't have that urge to always move and be active, and that is causing his depression to become more apparent.

[DracostarA]

5 minutes ago, Gderu said:

I don't think it's an addiction, more of an overreliance on it. I would imagine that Kaladin uses stormlight to keep going and ignore his problems, but it doesn't seem like he is actually addicted to it. It's just that without the stormlight, he doesn't have that urge to always move and be active, and that is causing his depression to become more apparent.

Well maybe it's just a matter of semantics, but I'd argue relying on ANY substance to 'keep going and ignore his problems' constitutes an addiction. If we replaced stormlight with alcohol or nicotine in that sentence I think the word 'addiction' would be the first thing to come to most people's minds.

[RazeU]

The way he basically went catatonic when his Stormlight ran out seemed almost like shock. As in his system doesn’t work well without it anymore. I’m sure Moash didn’t help but I don’t think Moash’s words elicited that response. I think it was physical. And I stand by what I said earlier in this thread... his time with the surgeons is a way for him to not need Stormlight so he can “detox” for a while. 

[Subvisual Haze]

Physical dependence and addiction are different things.  Kaladin displays almost no symptoms of substance abuse or addiction, just physical dependence.

[Zelly]

5 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Physical dependence and addiction are different things.  Kaladin displays almost no symptoms of substance abuse or addiction, just physical dependence.

Had to go look these up to think about the difference, but I agree.  Although he may be edging towards addiction, based on this last chapter.  There seems to be a fine nebulous line.

[Subvisual Haze]

26 minutes ago, Zelly said:

Had to go look these up to think about the difference, but I agree.  Although he may be edging towards addiction, based on this last chapter.  There seems to be a fine nebulous line.

Nah, physical dependence on various non-psychoactive substances is actually quite common.  Antidepressants aren't addictive, but if you stop taking them all at once you'll get unpleasant physical withdrawal symptoms for example.  Or heartburn medications like Prilosec, stop taking them all at once and you'll get nasty rebound heartburn.

Addiction needs to have a psychological component, the physical symptoms of dependence aren't actually even necessary for a diagnosis of addiction/abuse.  Signs of addiction or abuse would be symptoms such as: escalating dose, continuing to use a substance despite clear evidence of harms, spending large amounts of time thinking about acquiring the substance, and most critically craving.  I haven't really seen much evidence of any of those symptoms.

The core problem is just that Kaladin is depressed and doesn't know how to fix himself.  Without stormlight he'd be basically non-functional, with stormlight he can be just barely functional enough to do his job.  His current pattern isn't sustainable, but that's more a problem with his depression, not necessarily a sign that stormlight usage itself is harmful to him.

[Zelly]

@Subvisual Haze So we've got Teft with true addiction to firemoss: constant cravings, using repeatedly even though it was negatively affecting his work, unable to say no even though he knew it was doing terrible things to his life

I guess in media and culture we've gotten used to tossing the word addiction around when we actually mean dependence. I'll say I'm addicted to caffeine, but what I really mean is dependent. I'm a mess without it, but I'm not constantly thinking about, drinking more and more coffee, or skipping responsibilities.  It's not the #1 priority in my life, taking precedence over family, work, etc.

 

[Zaineph]

On 02/09/2020 at 7:26 AM, Subvisual Haze said:

Nah, physical dependence on various non-psychoactive substances is actually quite common.  Antidepressants aren't addictive, but if you stop taking them all at once you'll get unpleasant physical withdrawal symptoms for example.  Or heartburn medications like Prilosec, stop taking them all at once and you'll get nasty rebound heartburn.

Addiction needs to have a psychological component, the physical symptoms of dependence aren't actually even necessary for a diagnosis of addiction/abuse.  Signs of addiction or abuse would be symptoms such as: escalating dose, continuing to use a substance despite clear evidence of harms, spending large amounts of time thinking about acquiring the substance, and most critically craving.  I haven't really seen much evidence of any of those symptoms.

The core problem is just that Kaladin is depressed and doesn't know how to fix himself.  Without stormlight he'd be basically non-functional, with stormlight he can be just barely functional enough to do his job.  His current pattern isn't sustainable, but that's more a problem with his depression, not necessarily a sign that stormlight usage itself is harmful to him.

This is pretty much spot on. In most cases the substance abuse is a symptom of a 'spiritual malady'. And the substance becomes it's own problem at a later date. A true addict will know the dangers and possible downsides but at times will have 'no effective mental defence against the drink' (or other substance). A true addict is powerless against their addiction and cannot overcome it without a spiritual awakening. Note that abstinence from a substance does not mean that they have overcome it. Far from it as many addicts have fallen to their addictions after many years sober. Addicts also have an physical 'allergy' to substances which limits their ability to stop once they've started.

What I would be interested to know is how Teft would be perceived in the Spiritual realm considering that he has this malady, and is there a Stormlight equivelent of a Twelve Step program, and if he acheived this would he look different in the Spiritual realm.