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Grand Unifying Theory - BAM is the Sibling


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This theory pulls together a lot of the loose ends left dangling at the end of OB into the what I believe is the most compelling case for the identity of the Sibling. This theory has a little bit of something for everyone, an explanation for the significance of the color of the Moons of Roshar, a satisfying explanation of the Realmatic source of Voidlight, the true nature of the Stormstriders, what exactly happened with Melishi's strikeforce, and of course the identity of the Sibling. So grab some popcorn and buckleup, it's a long ride.

This theory started percolating when considering the extreme oddity of the three Rosharan moons, and the most strikingly their color. And from the offhand comment the POV character made in the RoW Interlude included in Brandon's July 7th Newsletter (spoilered below).

Spoiler

Here's the Syl flashback scene when she is flying to the Tower looking for Kaladin's room:

Quote

The tower was dead. She barely remembered the place from before, when she’d bonded her old wonderful knight. He’d spent most of his life traveling to little villages, using her as a Shardblade to cut cisterns or aqueducts for the people. She remembered coming to Urithiru with him once...and the tower had been bright with lights... A strange kind of light...

A strange kind of light... could that in fact be the weird violet nimbus of Voidlight perhaps??

We know from WoB (spoilered below, emphasis added) that each of the invested Shards on Roshar has a specific color or system of colors associated with them, Odium is red/gold, Honor is white/blue and Cultivation is green. The color that is noticeably missing, that happens to be one of the colors of the 3 moons of roshar, and happens also to be the color of the weird anti-glow nimbus of someone using Voidlight, and is coincidentally one of the two colors depicting linking relationships in the voidbinding chart is violet (the other voidbinding chart color is a yellow gold, clearly signifying Odium).

Spoiler

Questioner

So, we know in Mistborn there is this running... you can say, motif about Ruin being associated with the color black and Preservation with the color white, we see a lot of very subtle and a lot of very unsubtle...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yes.

Questioner

Is such a motif present in any other books? I think I see it in Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, in Stormlight you can see it. So, Ruin is a red-gold... not Ruin, Odium. Odium is a red-gold. Honor is a blue-white and Cultivation is green, obviously. So, those motifs stay, when you... when you see a red or a gold, it's a reddish gold sort of thing, either of those colors, it's going to be Odium.

Questioner

Even when we something we might suspect to be outside influence in other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Not necessarily, because red can also mean corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere. So, I would call Odium's real color gold, because you're going to see red when Odium is corrupting other things, so...

Questioner

It's not necessarily on Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

It's not necessarily Odium. So, you're asking for the invading force on Mistborn, it doesn't necessarily mean Odium because it's red. So red just kind of means corruption. I've talked about that before, so. Not necessarily, not definitive, yeah.

Footnote: When Sanderson said "you're asking about the invading force on Mistborn", the questioner made a guilty "caught red-handed" shrug.
ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

 

This was the basis for the theory, but all good theories live or die on the solidness of the proof.

The main proof for this theory comes from looking at the records in the Gem Archive and assuming that the drawer locations and gem numbers of the individual entries imply a rough relative chronology. I think it plausible to assume that the earliest gems would be placed in the lowest number drawers, and that the sequentially numbered gems are explicitly stating their relative chronology. The entries that refer to external events would seem to confirm this chronological assumption (and are noted in the comments below the entries). At the end of this post all of the entries for the gem archive are placed in chronological order based on drawer numbers and gem numbers, for anyone who just want's to read through the raw chronological listing.

The gem archive is comprised of the following 3 types of entries:

  1. Personal Records (of the least interest to us in this investigation, with the exception of the Truthwatcher ones)
  2. Entries about the Tower and the Sibling (very important ones)
  3. Entries about the War with the Parsh during the False Desolation (including Melishi's strike force (also very important ones))

So given the above divisions of content and the assumption that drawer location and numbers reveal a chronological ordering, we can arrange the significant entries into a rough thematic and chronological ordering. Each ordered entry states the Drawer-Sub drawer number: Gem Type (Associated Radiant Order) and CH# where the epigraph can be found in the text. After the entry is a contextualizing footnote.

Before we begin, I have to say, that after ordering and arranging them a very singular narrative begins to emerge with gaps that can be filled in by some educated surmises. First I'll give you the facts and then present the Grand Unifying Theory.


PART 1: Personal Records

The only really noteworthy entry in this category (other than the Truthwatcher entries that will be placed in the Tower/Sibling subcategory) is the following

  1. Drawer 24-18: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 67
    Quote

    "This generation has had only one Bondsmith, and some blame the divisions among us upon this fact. The true problem is far deeper. I believe that Honor himself is changing."

    Boy is that a doozy! This clearly establishes that at the time of the False Desolation the Sibling was unbonded, because if the sole Bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling there wouldn't have been any uncertaintity as to what is happening with the functioning of the Tower. It also means that the sole Bondsmith, Melishi, was either bonded to the Stormfather or the Nightwatcher (more on this later).
     


PART 2: Records about the Tower and Sibling

In this series of entries you can see that the Gem Archive records start with an undisclosed Elsecaller investigating the Sibling, implying that something was off about the Sibling at the start of our Archive derived chronology.

  1. Drawer 1-1: First Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 68
    Quote

    "My research into the cognitive reflections of the spren at the tower has been deeply illustrative. Some thought that the Sibling had withdrawn from men by intent- but I find counter to that theory."

    On first reading, this would seem to imply that Sibling has already withdrawn. But I think based on the subsequent entry by (I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume) the same Elsecaller Radiant, the tower is still partially functional. This Elsecaller investigated the Sibling in the Cognitive realm, and I think the reason that he/she doesn't hold that the Sibling has withdrawn by intent is that in fact the Sibling at this point hasn't withdrawn, at least not fully. The "I find counter to that theory" implies that she has some direct evidence that either 1) The Sibling hasn't withdrawn by intent or 2) The Sibling hasn't fully Withdrawn, or 3) The premise that the Sibling has withdrawn is false because some other process is at work upon the Sibling (namely corruption by Sja-Anat) that is causing the malfunctioning of Urithiru's subsystems. I'll return to this later in the Grand Unifying Theory portion.
  2. Drawer 1-1: Second Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 69

    Quote

    "The wilting of plants and the general cooling of the air is disagreeable, yes, but some of the tower's functions remain in place. The increased pressure, for example, persists."

    This shows that even when some Radiants believed that the Sibling had withdrawn, something was still powering some of the subsystems at Urithiru.
  3. Drawer 1-1: Third Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 70

    Quote

    "Something is happening to the Sibling. I agree this is true, but the division among the Knights Radiant is not to blame. Our perceived worthiness is a separate issue."

    Just more confirmation by the Elsecaller who has investigated what is going on with the Sibling from the Cognitive Realm  (who likewise knows that Urithiru, at this point, is still somewhat functional) that an abnormal process is at work with the Sibling.
  4. Drawer 2-22: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 67

    Quote

    "I wish to submit my formal protest at the idea of abandoning the tower. This is an extreme step, taken brashly."

    This is early in the Gem Archives and shows that the plan to abandon the tower followed pretty shortly after the beginning of the breakdown of Urithiru's subsystems.
  5. Drawer 3-11: Garnet (Lightweaver) CH 73

    Quote

    "I am worried about the tower's protections failing. If we are not safe from the Unmade here, then where?"

    This one is far more interesting, and one of the prime pieces of evidence for the speculation that Sja-Anat had been assualting the Tower. The two Truthwatcher entries in this series are also evidence for this surmise, with the small emerald one basically being a confirmation that Sja-anat had been at the very least actively corrupting Radiant spren.
  6. Drawer 8-1: Amethyst (WIllshaper) CH 65

    Quote

    "Now that we abandon the tower, can I finally admit that I hate this place? Too many rules."

    This entry, and the ones that highlight the divisions in the tower, shows that the withdrawal from Urithiru was a stepped process, not a single mass exodus.
  7. Drawer 8-21: Second Emerald (Truthwathcer) CH 60

    Quote

    "I worry about my fellow Truthwatchers."

    This combined with the drawer 30-2 small emerald heavily implies Sja-anat's presence at the Tower. We know that seeing the future is actually voidbinding (per Argent's signed book WoB). So this Truthwatcher might be wary because his/her fellow Truthwatchers are being secretive about their spren (because they are corrupted) or because prophetic writing similar to Renarin's count down to the True Desolation had begun to appear in the Tower.
  8. Drawer 16-16: Amethyst (Willshaper) CH 63

    Quote

    "I returned to the tower to find squabbling children, instead of proud knights, That's why I hate this place. I'm going to go chart the hidden undersea caverns of Aimia; find my maps in Akinah."

    Another entry that highlights the divisions in the tower and shows that the leaving of the tower was a protracted affair.
  9. Drawer 24-18: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 67

    Quote

    "This generation has had only one Bondsmith, and some blame the divisions among us upon this fact. The true problem is far deeper. I believe that Honor himself is changing."

    This entry is included to show its chronological context, because it is a VERY important entry, and the fact that the Sibling hadn't been bonded in a generation is very significant.
  10. Drawer 27-19: Topaz (Stoneward) CH 64

    Quote

    "The disagreements between the Skybreakers and the Windrunners have grown to tragic levels. I plead with any who hear this to recognize you are not so different as you think."

    This entry is important for establishing a link to the external chronology by giving a plausible reason why the assualt at Feverstone keep was predominantly Windrunners. The record of 2-22 shows that at least one Skybreaker was displeased with abandoning Urithiru, and that group tends to act like a school of herring, one opinion is probably indicative of the opinion of the group. With the Skybreakers dragging their heels about leaving, and with the conflict between the orders at a fever pitch, it's a reasonable surmise to say this is one of the reasons that most of the Windrunners were present at the Feverstone Keep Recreance vision of Dalinar's.
  11. Drawer 29-29: Ruby (Dustbringer) CH 87

    Quote

    "Good night, dear Urithiru. Good night, sweet Sibling. Good night, Radiants."

    This, to me, reads like the last goodbye to Urithiru. And because it precedes the drawer 30 Melishi strikeforce Emerald series, it seems like at this point most of the Radiants had given up on the tower as a lost cause.
  12. Drawer 30-20: A particularly small emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 85

    Quote

    "Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this."

    This entry shows that at least one Truthwatcher at the tower had their spren corrupted by Sja-Anat. With the alarmist tone of the Emerald in drawer 8-21 about being concerned about their fellow Truthwatchers, and the drawer 3-11 garnet expressing worry about the towers defenses being compromised, it's a reasonable surmise to think that Sja-Anat was active at the Tower.

So the rough chronology of events about the Sibling and the Tower established through the Archive is the following:

  1. The Sibling began to behave strangely, things started to not work at Urithiru (assumed pre-archive)
  2. An Elsecaller investigated what was going on by checking on the Sibling in the CR and found that contrary to the general perception, the Sibling had not withdrawn with intent (this leaves several possibilities open, namely only part of the sibling had withdrawn or the sibling had been corrupted)
  3. Shortly after the Elsecaller's investigations into the problems at Urithiru, a decision was reached to abandon the tower. At least one Skybreaker objected to this, and this could be the start of the deepening divisions among the orders.
  4. Shortly after the decision to abandon the tower was reached, a Lightweaver expressed worry about the tower's defenses, implying that the problems with the Sibling were likely to affect the Tower's defense.
  5. Not too long after the concern over the tower's defenses were expressed, a Truthwatcher records his worry about his fellow Truthwatchers (sounds like a sublte assualt to me).
  6. General dissention reigns at Urithiru.
  7. The majority of the Radiants leave the tower.
  8. Melishi, the sole Bondsmith, and his strikeforce leave the tower to confront Ba-Ado-Mishram.

 

PART 3: Records about the War with the Parsh & Imprisonment of Ba-Ado-Mishram

This is a pretty straightforward chronology, but where useful, the comments following the record entries contextualize the entry in terms of the Sibling/Tower chronology.

  1. Drawer 19-2: Third Topaz (Stoneward) CH 84

    Quote

    "The enemy makes another push toward Feverstone Keep. I wish we knew what it was that had them so interested in that area. Could they be intent on capturing Rall Elorim?"

    This is one of those records that establishes a correlation of the Archives with an external chronology. It's after the Willshaper returns to a squabbling tower (Drawer 16-16 amethyst) and before the disagreement with the Skybreaker and Windrunners record (Drawer 27-19 topaz). Of special note is the fact that there is no mention of the enemy having access to Voidlight at this point.
  2. Drawer: 20-10, Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 83

    Quote

    "As the duly appointed keepers of the perfect gems, we of the Elsecallers have taken the burden of protecting the ruby nicknamed Honor's Drop. Let it be recorded."

    This I think is a small bit of foreshadowing, namely that the only perfect gem we know of, The Honor's Drop, is mentioned before the strikeforce sets out to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram in a perfect gem. We know from Oathbringer that prior to the battle of Thaylen Fields the Honor's Drop wasn't imprisoning an Unmade, suggesting heavily that whatever had previously been imprisoned in the Honor's Drop no longer is.
  3. Drawer: 29-5, Topaz (Stoneward) CH 58

    Quote

    "As a Stoneward, I spent my entire life looking to sacrifice myself. I secretly worry that is the cowardly way. The easy way out."

    Chronologically and thematically this is interesting. On the eve of the Melishi's strikeforce operation, even the most dependable of Radiants were beginning to question themselves. Is this from the ramifications of what was going to be attempted with Melishi's strikeforce? Was this from the ravings of Honor? Was this from the corrupting influence of Sja-Anat? Whatever the cause, this record clearly sets the stage for the only view of the Recreance we get at Feverstone Keep, where predominantly Stonewards and Windrunners broke their bonds.
  4. Drawer: 30-20, First Emerald (Truthwathcer) CH 77

    Quote

    "Something must be done about the remnants of Odium's forces. The parsh, as they are now called, continue their war with zeal, even without their masters from Damnation."

    This is the beginning of the denouement for the Knights Radiant. This is the eve of the Recreance, and chronologically it's immediately preceded by a Dustbringer bidding adieu to Urithiru (abandoned), the Sibling (withdrawn possibly partially, fully, or corrupted), and the Radiants (who very shortly will cease to exist as a group due to the wholesale abandonment of their oaths).
  5. Drawer: 30-20, Second Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 78

    Quote

    "A coalition has been formed among scholar Radiants. Our goal is to deny the enemy their supply of Voidlight; this will prevent their continuing transformations, and give us an edge in combat."

    My guess is that one of the scholar radiants in this group is the Elsecaller who investigated the anomalies of the workings of Urithiru regarding the Sibling at the start of the Gem Archive. And further that her special understanding of how Voidlight was supplied enabled Melishi's strategem.
  6. Drawer: 30-20, Third Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 79

    Quote

    "Our revelation is fueled by the theory that the Unmade can perhaps be captured like ordinary spren. It would require a special prison. And Melishi."

    This one is an obvious call back to the Drawer 20-10 Zircon (the one about capturing an Unmade in a perfect gem), and implies heavily that at least part of Ba-Ado-Mishram was trapped within Honor's Drop by Melishi post strikeforce ops.
  7. Drawer: 30-20, Fourth Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 80

    Quote

    "Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her."

    Of special note in this entry is the only parrallel between what BAM and Odium did was in regards to the Connection with the Parsh. The implication from continuing to read the sentence is that Voidlight is supplied through this connection, but the entry only explicitly states that only the manner of Connection was similar. This is VERY important in the Grand Unifying Theory portion below.
  8. Drawer: 30-20, Fifth Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 81

    Quote
      "We are uncertain the effects this will have on the parsh. At the very least, it should deny them forms of power. Melishi is confident, but Naze-daughter-Kuzodo warns of unintended side effects."
    This seems to be only of Realmatic signifigance in that Connection and Identity are important for assuming forms of power.
  9. Drawer: 30-20, Final Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 82

    Quote

    "Surely this will bring - at long last - the end to war that the Heralds promised us."

    Just a reminder that the False Desolation occurred after Aharietiam, and the fact that the Heralds lied about the Last Desolation is just one more reason to throw in the towel and give up on Radiance.

The rough chronology of events in the War agains the Parsh in the False Desolation (with asides about where this fits in with the events in the Sibling/Tower timeline) are:

  1. The subsystems are failing at Urithiru, and there are fractious divisions amongst the Orders at Urithiru before the war with the Parsh (that comprises the False Desolation) are mentioned.
  2. The first mention of the war that would turn into the False Desolation is the drawer 19-2 topaz that talks about the Parsh's push to Feverstone Keep (which is a significant location because that's our one view of the Recreance)
  3. Before Melishi's strikeforce leaves to imprison BAM, even the Stonewards are questioning thier place as Radiants. That's a bad sign.
  4. Melishi's strikeforce sets out with the stated aims of 1) Denying the enemy their source of Voidlight and 2) Imprisoning Ba-Ado-Mishram (heavily implying that the second objective will accomplish the first).

 

PART 4: The Grand Unifying Theory

A lot of the preliminary thought about this is covered in my post about Voidlight not being Odium's Investiture which I initially abandoned but am starting to reassess as perhaps being more or less on the right track (spoilered below):

Spoiler

I initially discounted this theory based on some objections that have turned out to not be the case (mostly color correlations that have since been proved to be correct), but one of the suppositions of the theory that I now think might be incorrect is that the Fused consume the gem hearts of their host to generate Voidlight. The example of Yelig-Nar and how he consumes the body of his host as fuel, definitely provides a counterbalance to the argument, but the nuance comes in that I think the system might be designed for a supply of Voidlight, but in the absence of an entity capable of supplying Voidlight, gemheart consumption would be a workable substitute. Gemheart consumption is not the preferred method of getting Voidlight, but will work in a pinch (especially for the Fused who are basically killing Singers and taking their gemhearts every time they are reborn). I now believe that there is some hack that enables Odium investiture to be converted into Voidlight investiture through the Everstorm, but in previous Desolations this was not an option. Obviously the Sibling has some means of supplying Investiture, seeing as they are the Battery of Urithiru, whether that just be in converting the stored investiture of Gemhearts into kinetic and usable Voidlight in some process like feeding the furnace with coal (or rather in this instance with gemhearts) or allows for the conversion of Stormlight into voidlight for power remains to be seen. Or possibly that the components of the Sibling, with their affinity to Stormlight and Cultivationlight, are able to directly filter and use these forms of Investiture.

So, you have seen the rough chronological progression of events, as reconstructed from the Gem Archives. Here is the Grand Unifying Theory, with each link in the speculative chain presented with evidence spoilered below it.

  1. The color of the Moons of Roshar corresponds to the 3 types of Investiture present on Roshar. Nomon (blue) represents Honor's investiture, Stormlight, (distributed through the Highstorm), Mishim (green) represents Cultivation's investiture, Cultivationlight, (most likely distributed through the Crem cycle), and Selas (violet) represents another type of Investiture,Voidlight, which I believe is another ecological manifestation of investiture, namely the formation of gem hearts in the native fauna on Roshar. We've seen spheres infused with Voidlight, the Fused giving off a nimbus black-violet anti-glow implying they are using Voidlight, and a Fabrial that uses Voidlight to suppress Radiance. The only explicity stated source of Voidlight was BAM in the False Desolation.
    Spoiler
    • The WoB referenced above clearly spells out the colors associated with Honor (blue/white), Cultivation (green), and Odium (red/white gold). The color violet is not mentioned at all, and this is one of the primary pieces of evidence that the violet tinged Investiture, Voidlight, is not a source of investiture tied to any of the shards Invested on Roshar.
    • Gemhearts are the result of coalescing investiture (as shown in the WoB spoilered below), and are a feature of the mega fauna of Roshar that existed pre-shattering. That which coalesces can be consumed, and I think this is what is at the heart of the creation of Voidlight, namely the conversion of stored Investiture (gem hearts of some kind) into kinetic investiture (Voidlight). Brandon explicitly confirms in the WoB that there is a way for the Investiture used in the creation of gemhearts to return to the Rosharan Investiture pool, and further that we have had hints about how this would work. This is an OB signing WoB, so Brandon would have assumed that we have seen the Fused at this point using Voidlight.
      Spoiler

      Overlord Jebus

      So you've previously described gemhearts as Investiture leaking into the Physical Realm in a similar kind of process to atium. Now atium had a way of-- the Investiture used in the creation of it-- of returning back to the kind of background pool of Investiture on Scadrial. Is there a way of the Investiture used in the creation of gemhearts to return to the Roshar Investiture pool?

      Brandon Sanderson

      Yes.

      Overlord Jebus

      There is? Have we had any hints of it at all?

      Brandon Sanderson

      Yes.

      Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

    • The examples of the Fused and Yelig-nar both show a cavalier attitude to the health of the vessel that they inhabit, and both show that an entity is consumed to supply power for the magic being used.



     
  2. Ba-Ado-Mishram (note the double hyphenation) is a tripartite being, and is the Sibling.
    Spoiler
    • The Sibling has been repeatedly referred to as "they" by the Stormfather.
    • The double hyphenation implies that this is a composite entity composed of three distinct parts.
    • The Elsecaller recording her/his investigations about the Sibling in Drawer 1-1: Zircon 1 talks about their "research into the cognitive reflections of the spren at the tower", even though spren is singular, reflections is plural, implying that this particular spren that is a singular entity is composed of more distinct parts. Evidence for BAM being the Sibling will appear later in this chain.

     

  3. The Sibling is a fusion of the original gods of the Singers, the spren of Spren, Stone and Wind, formed from the primitive beliefs of the native life on Roshar pre-shattering. I believe that it's a reasonable surmise that the 3 means of dispersing Investiture predated the arrival of Honor and Cultivation, and that the Singers original Gods were powerful Spren born of the accretion and focus of the three different systems of Investiture distribution. To extend the surmise, it's quite likely that when Honor and Cultivation invested on Roshar, and began investing in 2 of the 3 pre-existing channels for investiture distribution, namely the High Storm and the Crem cycle, the Singer's original Gods of the Wind and the Spren were displaced, leaving only the God of Stone (the one responsible for gemheart formation) with unfiltered Power, and speculative to be sure, but the God of Stone portion of the Sibling is probably the Sibling's primary aspect due to it's unsupplanted function.
    Spoiler
    • The Eila Stele, which is thought to predate the First Desolations clearly states that the Singers Gods were the gods of spren, stone and wind that they betrayed the Singers in preference to the Ashynite refugees:
      Quote

      "Our pity destroyed us. For their betrayal extended even to our gods: to spren, stone, and wind."

    • The Unkalaki (who are related biologically to the Singers) also have a system with 3 gods, here's the quote from the Coppermind article about their Gods:

      Quote

      The Horneaters have three powerful gods they sought aid from: the Gods of the waters, the Gods of the mountains and the Gods of the trees. [12] This may refer to Roshar's three Shards.

      This seems like religious drift to me, native gods forced into a new shape due to a new context. The God of water would correspond with the Singer's God of Spren, the God of the Mountains would correspond to the God of Stone, and the God of the trees would correspond to the God of Wind.

    • The Shin religion likewise has interesting aspects of correspondence with the original Singer Religion with the trinity of Spren. Here's a quote about Stone Shamanism from the Coppermind article on Shinovar:

      Quote

      "The Shin follow Stone Shamanism. They believe stone to be sacred and that their soul is given to the stones upon their death, where they continue to exist.[10] They consider walking upon stones to be a heresy, and derogatorily refer to those who do as Stonewalkers. The stones of Urithiru are the one exception to this, as Urithiru is a holy site.[20]"

      Interesting to note that their souls are given back to the stone (part of the ecology of Gemheart formation, perhaps?) and that the Stones of Urithiru are holy, which could be because the original God of Stone is in residence in Urithiru. One other thing of particular note is the Shin reference to the hateful hour, quoting from Coppermind again:

      Quote

      "They called the period of darkest night between the first two moons the "hateful hour" and believed it was the only time their gods didn't keep watch over them.[10] "

      This implies that all the Spren that are associated with the moons are Gods to the Shin, but just not their primary god. Their primary god, going off of their belief in Stone Shamanism, is the God of Stone. Would be interesting if Selas has an outsized importance in their religious observances like I believe it should.

     

  4. Probably the most compelling piece of evidence that Ba-Ado-Mishram is the Sibling is the chronological series of events presented in thg Gem Archive. When the battery for Urithiru stopped working, suddenly the Singers fighting in the False Desolation had an entity capable of supplying them with power in the form of Voidlight.
    Spoiler
    • The Tower's subsystems, powered by the Sibling, began to malfunction, but they didn't all stop at once, implying that the Tower was still receiving partial power. The Elsecaller's observations about the Sibling not withdrawing by intent, and the description of the Sibling's reflections in Shadesmar, heavily imply that the spren is a composite being with more than one part, and that one portion of the Sibling had withdrawn or had been corrupted by Sja-Anat (or likely both).
    • The Drawer 19-2: Third Topaz entry in the Gem archive about the enemies' push to Feverstone Keep, doesn't mention that the Parsh are being supplied by Voidlight at that point, and tellingly the only entry mentioning BAM supplying Voidlight is the Drawer 30-2: Fourth Emerald one, which is after we know that the Sibling has fully withdrawn from Urithiru (based on the Dustbringer's Drawer 29-29: Ruby entry that is bidding Urithiru, the Sibling and The Radiants goodnight).

     

  5. Melishi, a Bondsmith not bonded to the Sibling, was able to use his Bondsmith abilities to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram (or as I posit a single aspect of the tripartite being) and the consequence of this imprisonment and Melishi's use of his Bondsmith power to affect Connection was a severing of Connection and Identity of all of the Singers connected to BAM.
    Spoiler
    • The Drawer 30-2 emerald series has been analyzed extensively elsewhere, but I think possibly the most significant bit is the Fourth Emerald one, especially the fact that upon a careful reading of it the Only thing that was similar about Odium and Ba-Ado-Mishram during the False Desolation was that they Connected to the Singers in the same way. The only entity we have evidence for ever supplying Voidlight is BAM.
    • If BAM is the Sibling, and therefore is a Bondsmith spren, then that would explain their ability to Connect with the Singers, namely that a Spren granting the Bondsmith the power to affect Connection should themselves be able to affect Connection as well.
    • If the Connection between BAM and the Singers is working under similar principles to the Connection between a Knight Radiant and their spren, the breaking of this connection could be a homologous process to the Breaking of the Bond between a Radiant and their Spren. The Spren becomes a Deadeye after their bond has been broken, this might be in fact because, like the Singers connected to BAM during the False Desolation, they have been cut off from their Connection and Identity as well.
    • I posit that BAM was indeed imprisoned in the Honor's drop mentioned in form in the Drawer 20-10: Zircon, and in function in the Drawer 30-20: Third Emerald. The fact that the Honor's drop was used in the Battle of Thaylen fields by Dalinar the Bondsmith to capture Neragoul, shows two important facts. 1) It worked as a prison for an Unmade when wielded by a Bondsmith who had a Connection to that Unmade, and 2) More interestingly, that if the Honor's drop was used by Melishi to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram (as it is heavily implied in the Gem Archives that it was), then at least at the time of the Battle of Thaylen Fields BAM is no longer imprisoned. Further evidence of this Lack of imprisonment follows

     

  6. The Portion of the Sibling able to Connect and Distribute Voidlight, namely the Portion that was imprisoned by Melishi, was (until the start of the True Desolation at least) residing on Braize.
    Spoiler
    • Primary Evidence for this is that Dalinar had his black spheres with Voidlight during the Treaty Signing with the Listeners, and in the RoW prologue Gavilar is discussing his "box" that can transport things to and from Braize. The passage from the RoW prologue about the box is excerpted below:
      Quote

      “…Being able to bring them back and forth from Braize doesn’t mean anything,” one said. “It’s too close to be a relevant distance.”

      “It was impossible only a few short years ago,” said a deep, powerful voice. Gavilar. “This is proof. The Connection is not severed, and the box allows for travel. Not yet as far as you’d like, but we must start the journey somewhere.”

       

    • The Collection of spheres that Navani sees on Gavilar's desk explicity mentions the Voidlight infused Black Spheres that we've all come to know and love, along with a collection of other differently glowing spheres. The passage about the spheres from the RoW prologue is excerpted below:
      Quote

      On the table between Gavilar and the men lay a group of spheres. Navani’s breath caught as she saw them. They were arrayed in a variety of colors and brightness, but several seemed strangely off. They glowed with an inverse of light, as if they were little pits of violet darkness, sucking in the color around them.

       

    • The fact that Aseudan had the swallowable Yelignar gem, implies that using Gavilar's box, an Unmade within a Gem could travel from Braize to Roshar, and maybe this was the reason that Retrieving the Honor's Drop was a strategic objective for Odium's forces during the Battle of Thaylen Fields. My guess is that if a portion of BAM was trapped on Braize until the start of the True Desolation, she would have been able to use Odium's Everstorm to transition to Roshar.

     

  7. The Everstorm is of Odium, the lightning it produces is Red (an Odious color) and for it to have the assumed ability to replenish Voidlight something else needs to be going on. I think this is best explained by the reasoned surmise that Odium, Connected to the portion of BAM that is able to supply Voidlight, is using that Connection to supply Voidlight through his storm. This is just like how Dalinar uses his Connection to the Stormfather to Supply Stormlight to his Radiants.
    Spoiler
    • The Stormform spren that the Listeners bonded to were red Voidspren (most likely retrieved from Braize using Gavilar's Box). The lightning they could individually create was likewise red (Odious color). The act of summoning the everstorm seems to me to be a simple act of Concentrating Odium's investiture, until a tipping point was reached and he was able to create his Everstorm on Roshar.
    • There are lots of descriptions about things being consumed by the Void (like the bit of the Eile Stele excerpted below), and Odium's continual appeal to have others give him their pain, suggests to me that this is the true nature of his magic system. The volitional surrendering of control, and then the consumption of something of that person/entity that surrendered control to achieve power. This is seen in the Fused consuming their host who willingly lets them in, and this is also seen by the Consumption of the Host of Yelignar who has given up control to their hatred, and are burning through their own corporeal body to achieve power. This all makes me believe that Signers and creatures with Gemhearts could still use Odiuos means to unlock the stored investiture in their gemhearts, but at the cost of destroying their own gemheart. I believe the only non-destructive source of Voidlight, is the ecological manifestation of the accretion of Gemheart investiture, namely the God of Stone portion of the Sibling.
      Quote

      Eile Stele excerpt:
      Well were they named Voidbringers, for they brought the void. The empty pit that sucks in emotion. A new god. Their god.

       

     

  8. The other two portions of the Sibling, the God of Wind and the God of Spren, are the massive Stormstriders seen hiding in the Eye of the Highstorm.
    Spoiler
    • The Stormfather, when questioned about the Sibling by Dalinar, replies very paternally "You've hurt them enough" and eschews all further questions.
    • Kaladin and Shallan see two distinctly different Stormstriders when they are trapped in the Chasm during the Highstorm in WoR Chapter 74.





       
      Quote

      Light came from above, too steady to be lightning. Something was glowing on the plateau. Something that moved. It was hard to see, since water streamed off the side of the plateau above, falling in a sheet before their refuge. He swore he saw an enormous figure walking up there, a glowing inhuman form, followed by another, alien and sleek. Striding the storm. Leg after leg, until the glow passed.

      This passage lines up SO well with this theory. If one of the Stormstriders is the displaced Singer God of the Wind, the fact that it is glowing implies that it can still filter the investiture of Stormlight. The other is described as alien and sleek, which would make sense if this was the displaced Signer god of Spren, because the Nightwatcher is likewise described as alien and sleek.

      and Dalinar gives one a rude gesture when he is Conan the Barbarianing it out to get his knife during a Highstorm in OB Chapter 19.
      Quote

      An explosive burst of wind drove him against the wall, and he stumbled, then stepped backward, driven by instincts he couldn’t define. A large boulder slammed into the wall, then bounced away. Dalinar glanced and saw something luminous in the distance: a gargantuan figure that moved on spindly glowing legs.

      If the above assertion is correct, Dalinar is seeing the Stormfather's homologue, the displaced Singer God of Wind.

    • If the Nightwatcher and Cultivation did displace these Singer god's as the primary tap of the Native Investiture of Stormlight and Cultivationlight on Roshar, it makes sense for him to be paternally attached to them, and I have said it before, what better place to hide in plain sight than in the eye of the highstorm.
    .

 

Here are possible objections to this theory and rebuttals.

  1. In the Hessi's Mythica epigraph in CH106 of OB, BAM is described as the following:
    Quote

    "I find Ba-Ado-Mishram to be the most interesting of the Unmade. She is said to have been keen of mind, a highprincess among the enemy forces, their commander during some of the Desolations. I do not know how this relates to the ancient god of the enemy, named Odium."

    This clearly states that she was a Highprincess among the Enemy Forces and the commander during SOME of the Desolations. If the Sibling/BAM is a composite Entity of the original Spren Gods of the Singers, it would make sense that they would initially side with the Singers. Also, one of the Desolations where she was a commander would definitely be when she was supplying Voidlight and Connection to the Singers during the False Desolation. So covering the vague SOME only requires her to be a commander during 2 Desolations really, but I think it's probably likely that she was a Commander for the Singers up until the Construction of Urithiru, it seems to have as it's foundational design principle the idea of big battery to install, so I think it likely that one of the first Bondsmiths to Bond the Sibling/BAM also was instrumental in creating the tower, and in terms of Absolute chronology this would have to be before Nohadon, because it's impossible to Walk to Something that hasn't been built yet.

  2. How do we know that Cultivationlight is part of the Crem cycle?
    We don't, this is just surmise, but we do know that Crem is invested based on a couple of WoBs spoilered below:
    Spoiler
    Quote

    Questioner

    Has stormwater tasted metallic always?

    Brandon Sanderson

    Yes.

    Questioner

    Even pre-Shattering?

    Brandon Sanderson

    Even pre-Shattering it would get a metallic taste, that's the crem. So. That is an indication of Investiture and things. But it was there-- it was in place first, before.

    Oathbringer Chicago signing (Nov. 21, 2017)

    and this delightful pair:

    Quote

    Questioner

    Is crem spren poop? Or at least… not literally, but something like it?

    Brandon Sanderson

    Yes, it’s more like Shard poop. (Somewhat unsure sounding?)

    Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

    Quote

    Questioner

    Yesterday you said that crem was actually like Shard poop.

    Brandon Sanderson

    No, I was saying that it was more like that than what they were saying.

    Questioner

    It's not really poop?

    Brandon Sanderson

    No, its not.

    Questioner

    Dang it, I like poop jokes! Can you make it poop so i can have a poop joke.

    Brandon Sanderson

    Ok, for the next thirty seconds it is.

    Shadows of Self Portland signing (Oct. 10, 2015)

     

  3. How do we know that Sja-Anat corrupted the Sibling and was the reason, some/all of the Sibling withdrew?
    We don't but we have seen Sja-Anat is able to corrupt massive spren (the Kholinar Oathgate Spren), and the Drawer 8-21: Second Emerald and Drawer 30-2: particularly small emeralds about Suspecting fellow Truthwatchers at the Tower and the confirmation that at least one Truthwatcher was voidbinding (saw the future) is pretty compelling circumstantial evidence that Sja-Anat was active at the tower.
  4. I'll add more of these as you all start testing the limits of this theory with your amazing wobbery and generally sharp analysis

     

 

Here's the closing portion where I'm going to put this all together in a chronological sequence of events that I think does the best job of explaining the crap ton of dangling threads that we had at the end of Oathbringer.

Prior to the shattering, during the time when the Singers were the predominant sapient species on Roshar (and possibly the Reshi Islands too), there were 3 distinct methods of Investiture distribution. The Investiture that would later become Stormlight was distributed by the Highstorm, the investiture that would later beomce Cultivationlight was distributed by water and the Crem cycle to make the inhospitable rocky planet capable of sustaining life, and the investiture that would later become Voidlight was distributed as innate investiture sink in the form of gemhearts. The gemhearts were most likely just a means by which the megafauna of Roshar could access and be affected by the other forms of Rosharan investiture. Due to the importance of all 3 systmes of investiture, the Singer's gods coalesced as Mega Spren, namely the God of Spren (cultivationlight), the God of Wind (stormlight) and the God of Stone (voidlight/gemhearts). (The Shin and Unkalaki likewise worship a God of Stone, heavily implying that that this entity is still existant).

After the Human's came, they brought their new ideas about the local phenomena, and the Influence of Cultivation and Honor's Investing of Roshar caused the original singer gods of Spren and Wind to be displaced. The three primary gods of the Singer then became to the Singers a single Entity and the Sibling was born. The Sibling thus Formed, aided their worshippers in the Wars against the true Voidbringers, namely the Human immigrant's from Ashyn (this is the portion referred to in Hessi's Mythica were BAM was a commander for some of the Desolations).

At some point during the Heraldic Epochs, after the Knights Radiants were formed, the new Order of Bondsmiths discovered they could bond the Spren that are Conduits for the 3 type of Investiture on Roshar, namely the Stormfather (the God of Wind had been displace), the Nightwatcher (the God of Spren had been displaced) and the God of Stone (who at this point was combined with the original God of Wind and the original God of Spren). The Tower City of Urithiru had to be created after the Sibling was bonded, because it's built around the central Gem column to provide power to it's internal subsystems, and most likely to provide cultivationlight to the crops, and I also think that prior to the withdrawl of the Sibling, Urithiru recieved direct power from the Highstorm (using the component God of Wind to key and transfer Stormlight investiture).

This takes us up to the time of the Gem Archive, when only 1 Bondsmith had been active for a generation (Drawer 24-18: smokestone), meaning that the Sibling was unbonded when subsystems at Urithiru began to fail. Shotrly after this, an Elsecaller investigating the Sibling in the CR (Drawer 1-1: zircons 1-3) noted that, unlike some thought, the Sibling hadn't withdrawn with intent. This combined with worry about Urithiru's defenses failing (Drawer 3-11: garnet) and the alarmist note of the Truthwatcher suspecting his fellow Truthwatchers (Drawer 8-21: second emerald), heavily implies that Sja-Anat had infiltrated the Tower, and that at least one of the Components of the Sibling had been corrupted. The Singer's at the start of the False Desolation don't appear to have been supplied with Voidlight (Drawer 19-2: third topaz), and it is only stated explicitly that they are Recieving Voidlight from BAM (Drawer 30-20: Fourth emerald) after the Tower had been mostly abandoned and the Sibling had fully withdrawn (Drawer 29-29: ruby).

The Details of Melishi's strike force combined with the fact that the Singers were obviously lobotomized after the False Desolation and only had their Identity and Connection restored with the Coming of the Everstorm for the True Desolation, shows that at least along some fronts Melishi's strike force was successful. The gem archive entries about imprisoning BAM in the Honor's Drop imply heavily that this was the means to do it, and I think it can be surmised that just the God of Stone portion (the one able to supply Voidlight and connect with the Singers) was imprisoned. But at least at the beginning of the Battle of Thaylen Fields, BAM was no longer imprisoned, because the Honor's Drop was empty.

The evidence of a Giant Luminous Spren, and a Sleek Alien Spren striding through the Highstorm close to the eye of the Storm, is heavily suggestive that these are the Components of the Sibling/BAM that were not captured by Melishi's strikeforce, and further more their descriptions fit with them being the Singer's original Gods of Wind and Spren (because their descriptions somewhat parallel the features of the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher, the Spren that displaced them from their original roles).

The fact that Gavilar had access to a fabrial capable of teleportation of gems to Braize and that he had spheres filled with Voidlight, suggests that the portion of BAM capable of supplying Voidlight was at some point released from her prison in the Honor's Drop and returned to Braise to wait rebirth at the start of the next Desolation.

Odium's Everstorm though seemingly capable of replinishing Voidlight, does not of itself replinish voidlight, because Voidlight is not Odium's investiture, it's a native flavor of Investiture (that probably has a shardic analog, but unknown which). The Everstorm has red lightning bolts, voidspren are golden-yellow or red, Voidlight is being bridged by BAM through BAM's Connection to Odium, and then pushed out through the Everstorm.

The bonding of the Sibling is likely going to require the de-corruption of the Singer God of Stone prior to a Bondsmith being able to bond the Sibling, but if the Sibling is really a tripartite being, this gives the Sibling Bondsmith some room to maneuver, becasue from the gem archive we have seen that Urithiru can partially function, so if necessary the Sibling's bondsmith could probably venture out of the Tower with one of the 3 if necessary.

 

That's it for Now, I am sure there are some edits that I am going to make to this monster of a theory, but this took far longer to put together than I was planning on spending. I'll address any critiques of this theory probably this weekend, cuz unfortunately crafting Cosmere theories doesn't pay the bills.

 

Pip, pip, and as Sherlock Holmes would say, the game is afoot.

 

*All records from the Gem Archive, organized just chronologically by drawer-sub drawer number spoilered below*

Spoiler
  1. Drawer: 1-1, First Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 68
    Quote

    "My research into the cognitive reflections of the spren at the tower has been deeply illustrative. Some thought that the Sibling had withdrawn from men by intent- but I find counter to that theory."

  2. Drawer 1-1: Second Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 69
    Quote

    "The wilting of plants and the general cooling of the air is disagreeable, yes, but some of the tower's functions remain in place. The increased pressure, for example, persists."

  3. Drawer 1-1: Third Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 70
    Quote

    "Something is happening to the Sibling. I agree this is true, but the division among the Knights Radiant is not to blame. Our perceived worthiness is a separate issue."

  4. Drawer 2-3: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 61
    Quote

    "We can record any secret we wish, and leave it here? How do we know that they'll be discovered? Well, I don't care. Record that then."

  5. Drawer 2-22: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 67
    Quote

    "I wish to submit my formal protest at the idea of abandoning the tower. This is an extreme step, taken brashly."

  6. Drawer 3-11: Garnet (Lightweaver) CH 73
    Quote

    "I am worried about the tower's protections failing. If we are not safe from the Unmade here, then where?"

  7. Drawer 4-17: Second Topaz (Stoneward) CH 72
    Quote

    "The Edgedancers are too busy relocating the tower's servants and farmers to send a representative to record their thoughts in these gemstones.

    I'll do it for them, then. They are the ones who will be most displaced by this decision. The Radiants will be taken in by nations, but what of all these people now without homes?"

  8. Drawer 8-1: Amethyst (WIllshaper) CH 65
    Quote

    "Now that we abandon the tower, can I finally admit that I hate this place? Too many rules."

  9. Drawer 8-21: Second Emerald (Truthwathcer) CH 60
    Quote

    "I worry about my fellow Truthwatchers."

  10. Drawer 10-12: Sapphire (Windrunner) CH 86
    Quote

    "My spren claims that recording this will be good for me, so here I go. Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don't think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?"

  11. Drawer 12-15: Ruby (Dustbringer) CH 59
    Quote

    "If this is to be permanent, then I wish to leave record of my husband and children. Wzmal, as good a man as any woman could dream of loving. Kmakra and Molinar, the true gemstones of my life."

  12. Drawer 16-16: Amethyst (Willshaper) CH 63
    Quote

    "I returned to the tower to find squabbling children, instead of proud knights, That's why I hate this place. I'm going to go chart the hidden undersea caverns of Aimia; find my maps in Akinah."

  13. Drawer 19-2: Third Topaz (Stoneward) CH 84
    Quote

    "The enemy makes another push toward Feverstone Keep. I wish we knew what it was that had them so interested in that area. Could they be intent on capturing Rall Elorim?"

  14. Drawer 20-10: Zircon (Elsecaller) CH 83
    Quote

    "As the duly appointed keepers of the perfect gems, we of the Elsecallers have taken the burden of protecting the ruby nicknamed Honor's Drop. Let it be recorded."

  15. Drawer 24-18: Smokestone (Skybreaker) CH 67
    Quote

    "This generation has had only one Bondsmith, and some blame the divisions among us upon this fact. The true problem is far deeper. I believe that Honor himself is changing."

  16. Drawer 27-19: Topaz (Stoneward) CH 64
    Quote

    "The disagreements between the Skybreakers and the Windrunners have grown to tragic levels. I plead with any who hear this to recognize you are not so different as you think."

  17. Drawer 29-5: Topaz (Stoneward) CH 58
    Quote

    "As a Stoneward, I spent my entire life looking to sacrifice myself. I secretly worry that is the cowardly way. The easy way out."

  18. Drawer 29-29: Ruby (Dustbringer) CH 87
    Quote

    "Good night, dear Urithiru. Good night, sweet Sibling. Good night, Radiants."

  19. Drawer 30-20: First Emerald (Truthwathcer) CH 77
    Quote

    "Something must be done about the remnants of Odium's forces. The parsh, as they are now called, continue their war with zeal, even without their masters from Damnation."

  20. Drawer 30-20: Second Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 78
    Quote

    "A coalition has been formed among scholar Radiants. Our goal is to deny the enemy their supply of Voidlight; this will prevent their continuing transformations, and give us an edge in combat."

  21. Drawer 30-20: Third Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 79
    Quote

    "Our revelation is fueled by the theory that the Unmade can perhaps be captured like ordinary spren. It would require a special prison. And Melishi."

  22. Drawer 30-20: Fourth Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 80
    Quote

    "Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her."

  23. Drawer 30-20: Fifth Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 81
    Quote
      "We are uncertain the effects this will have on the parsh. At the very least, it should deny them forms of power. Melishi is confident, but Naze-daughter-Kuzodo warns of unintended side effects."
  24. Drawer: 30-20: Final Emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 82
    Quote

    "Surely this will bring - at long last - the end to war that the Heralds promised us."

  25. Drawer 30-20: A particularly small emerald (Truthwatcher) CH 85
    Quote

    "Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this."

 

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
Cleaning up the very long post. Typos and strange formatting gone! Poof.
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So, didn’t Sja-Anat say that she hadn’t ever enlightened a spren as large as the Oathgate spren before? The Sibling would be considerably larger. 

Wasn’t the Unmade that infiltrated the tower Re-shepir? 

I personally think that a Bondsmith broke their oaths with the Sibling, sending it into a coma-like state. 

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1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

 

 

This clearly establishes that at the time of the False Desolation the Sibling was unbonded, because if the sole Bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling there wouldn't have been any uncertaintity as to what is happening with the functioning of the Tower. It also means that the sole Bondsmith, Melishi, was either bonded to the Stormfather or the Nightwatcher

This does not "clearly establish" that, that is your interpretation.

The Sibling is a "they" because they don't conform to gender identity

Quote

UppityDarkeyes

Would you be willing to confirm that the use of 'they' pronouns for the Sibling is because the Sibling is non-binary? Since apparently some people are confused on this point.

Brandon Sanderson

The sibling did not view themselves as male or female. (And considered it odd that so many spren would adopt human genders.)

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Nov. 3, 2018)

not because they're a "tripartite being"

Ba-Ado-Mishram participated in the Desolations, not just the False Desolation, she and the Sibling were separate.

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13 hours ago, Innovation said:

So, didn’t Sja-Anat say that she hadn’t ever enlightened a spren as large as the Oathgate spren before? The Sibling would be considerably larger. 

Wasn’t the Unmade that infiltrated the tower Re-shepir? 

I personally think that a Bondsmith broke their oaths with the Sibling, sending it into a coma-like state. 

I don't recall Sja-Anat saying that the Oathgate Spren was the largest she had enlightened, I don't have the ebook for WoR, do you mind quoting that passage? The corruption by Sja-Anat is not essential to this theory, it just seemed to fit the evidence given the truthwatcher gem archive entries 

The abandoned Tower was definitely plagued by Reshiphir at the time of it's reoccupation by Dalinar and Co, but it seemed to me like the implication was that Reshephir had been imprisoned somehow in the tower and had escaped sometime after the Tower had been abandoned.

 

12 hours ago, Honorless said:

This does not "clearly establish" that, that is your interpretation.

This is actually as close to be being proven in text as you can get without an explicit statement. The inference that the Sibling was unbonded by a Bondsmith at the time of the False Desolation is pretty clearly established by just two data points. 1)The drawer 24-18 entry that states "This generation has had only one Bondsmith", and 2) The drawer 1-1 series, that show that an Elsecaller was investigating the anomalies they were experiencing with the Sibling powering Urithiru. Why would they need an external investigation if the 1 current Bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling?

 

12 hours ago, Honorless said:

The Sibling is a "they" because they don't conform to gender identity

and for proof:

12 hours ago, Honorless said:

Brandon Sanderson

The sibling did not view themselves as male or female. (And considered it odd that so many spren would adopt human genders.)

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Nov. 3, 2018)

This does not preclude the Sibling being a tripartite being, anymore than the use of they to describe Shallan would be if she had alters of differing genders. Also they is a necessarily ambiguous term, it is both a singular and plural pronoun. One of the of primary bits of evidence is the entry of the Elsecaller that investigated the Sibling in the CR (Drawer 1-1: first Zircon) talking about investigating the "cognitive reflections of the spren at the tower". Just as the ambiguity in the pronoun they is open to debate, this could be referring to all of the spren in the tower, but the entry is ultimately about the sibling, so a solid inference is that the whole statement is in reference to the investigation of the sibling.

In Hessi's Mythica Hessi refers to BAM as a highprincess (with a clear gender associated), but if there are more than one part to the Identity of the Sibling, they could have more than one Gender or some of the components could dismiss the idea of gender identification altogether, and the collective Identity would find it ludricous to adopt a single gender. So that WoB in no way proves that the Sibling is a single non-composite entity.

12 hours ago, Honorless said:

Ba-Ado-Mishram participated in the Desolations, not just the False Desolation, she and the Sibling were separate.

BAM was a commander in SOME of the Desolations, which to be honest could be as few as 2 Desolations. The fact that BAM participated in some Desolations does not preclude BAM from being the Sibling. The timeline is vague for the Heraldic Epochs, but we know that Knights Radiants copied the Heralds link with Honor with the Nahel bonds, which makes it logical to surmise that at least a couple of Desolations happened before the KRs developed, and it seems illogical to think that Urithiru would have been built before a Bondsmith had bonded the Battery of Urithiru, namely the Sibling. That gives ample time for BAM to have been a commander in some of the Desolations, pre Urithiru.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
Typos, always typos
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40 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

This is actually as close to be being proven in text as you can get without an explicit statement. The inference that the Sibling was unbonded by a Bondsmith at the time of the False Desolation is pretty clearly established by just two data points. 1)The drawer 24-18 entry that states "This generation has had only one Bondsmith", and 2) The drawer 1-1 series, that show that an Elsecaller was investigating the anomalies they were experiencing with the Sibling powering Urithiru. Why would they need an external investigation if the 1 current Bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling?

Because the Elsecaller felt the need to do an investigation since something was happening and people were having trouble figuring out what

The Bondsmiths might not necessarily be completely privy to the nature of the godspren, 

Neither the Stormfather nor the Nightwatcher have shown any signs of being affected by the Recreance, which one might assume they should have been since Melishi was part of the Recreance generation. The Stormfather also says "no, you've hurt them enough", which again implies the same thing.

 

"One Bondsmith is in continual accompaniment of Urithiru". The Stormfather or the Nightwatcher were ultimately not vital to the functioning of the Knights Radiant, the Sibling who maintained Urithiru was.

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8 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

BAM was a commander in SOME of the Desolations, which to be honest could be as few as 2 Desolations. The fact that BAM participated in some Desolations does not preclude BAM from being the Sibling. The timeline is vague for the Heraldic Epochs, but we know that Knights Radiants copied the Heralds link with Honor with the Nahel bonds, which makes it logical to surmise that at least a couple of Desolations happened before the KRs developed, and it seems illogical to think that Urithiru would have been built before a Bondsmith had bonded the Battery of Urithiru, namrly the Sibling. That gives ample time for BAM to have been a commander in some of the Desolations, pre Urithiru.

Problem is, Ba-Ado-Misharm was KNOWN to Radiants before False Desolation. Sia-Anat was consider more dangerous, but Ba-Ado-Mishram was known.

And Voidlight is from Odium, no Question:

Quote
Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013)
#6 Share Copy
 
 

Questioner (paraphrased)

As far as I can tell, in The Stormlight Archive, we have seen three different lights: the stormlight, the amberlight in the flashbacks, and the dark light in the stone. Do those correspond to the three Shards?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, the amberlight is more a function of...it's no different than the stormlight.

Questioner (paraphrased)

So, you see that in a storm? Like when gems gather that in the storm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That amberlight is more related to... so, no... you are not seeing something other than stormlight. That is like saying that stormlight in a topaz is a different color than stormlight in a sapphire. It's not different colors; you're just seeing it filtered through something. The dark light of the, um, the gemstone that Szeth was given is indeed something different and distinct.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Voooiidlight?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, it is related to a different shard. How about that?

We konw how Cultivationlight looks like, so this lives us Odium.

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MiToRo94

Honor has Stormlight and Odium has Voidlight, is there a Cultivationlight? If so, can an Invested person use it as a third magic on Roshar or is a boon/curse the only magic of Cultivation/Nightwatcher?

Brandon Sanderson

There is more! I'll just say that, the rest is Read And Find Out. You are theorizing in an accurate direction.

 

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7 hours ago, Honorless said:

Because the Elsecaller felt the need to do an investigation since something was happening and people were having trouble figuring out what

The Bondsmiths might not necessarily be completely privy to the nature of the godspren, 

I agree that being a Bondsmith doesn't grant prescient powers of understanding fully what their Bondsmith's Spren is doing at all times, but the fact that it was commonly believed before the Elsecallers investigation that the Sibling withdrew from men by intent is pretty clear evidence that the Sibling was unbonded. It seems highly implausible, using Dalinar's relationship with the Stormfather as a rough guide, that the Sibling wouldn't communicate their reasons for withdrawing from Urithiru. And there's the fact that the tower had partial functionality, how do you explain that if there was a Bondsmith bonded to the Sibling at Urithiru?

7 hours ago, Honorless said:

Neither the Stormfather nor the Nightwatcher have shown any signs of being affected by the Recreance, which one might assume they should have been since Melishi was part of the Recreance generation. The Stormfather also says "no, you've hurt them enough", which again implies the same thing.

The "you've hurt them enough" could also be from the imprisonment of one portion of the Sibling, namely the portion that was supplying voidlight to the singers. The severing of Connection and Identity between BAM and the Singers probably had a reciprocal effect on BAM as well.

There is also no mention of Melishi breaking his bond, so it's quite possible that he never did. But the more likely case is that Melishi was bonded to the Nightwatcher, and the Nightwatcher was hurt. The way Cultivation seems to protect and instruct the Nightwatcher feels a bit like she is helping her to heal from some past trauma.

7 hours ago, Honorless said:

"One Bondsmith is in continual accompaniment of Urithiru". The Stormfather or the Nightwatcher were ultimately not vital to the functioning of the Knights Radiant, the Sibling who maintained Urithiru was.

The only problem with this is that the gem archive is a history of the Tower not working, the Sibling withdrawing, and ultimately the Tower being abandoned.

This sounds an awful lot like a list of problems  and a chain of events caused by having an unbonded Sibling.

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Hmph, let's ask the oldest questions regarding similar ideas then:

Ba-Ado-Mishram was said to be Highprincess among the Voidbringers. A leader and general. The Bondsmith of the Sibling would also be in a leadership position among Honor's forces. Why would either side allow a being to be in such a high position in the chain-of-command?

It doesn't make sense for the Radiants to have their home base maintained by a spren of the enemy. It doesn't make sense for Odium to allow one of his underlings to provide a homebase for his opponents either.

 

I like the idea of the Sibling being an Adonalsium spren, or being of both Honor and Cultivation (like Feruchemy is from both Preservation and Ruin), or being an unCorrupted Dawnshard while the Corrupted ones became Unmade.

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39 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Problem is, Ba-Ado-Misharm was KNOWN to Radiants before False Desolation. Sia-Anat was consider more dangerous, but Ba-Ado-Mishram was known.

She was a commander of the Singers' forces in some of the Desolations so it makes sense that she was known to the Radiants. I'm only positing that BAM switched sides when she was bonded by a Bondsmith. This is speculative to be sure, but if BAM is a composite entity comprised of the Three God Spren of the Singers, then I believe Ishar would have known about them and further the affinity of the God of Wind to Stormlight and the God of Spren to Cultuvationlight, and could have used those Connections to compel BAM/the Sibling to switch sides.

39 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

And Voidlight is from Odium, no Question:

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Questioner (paraphrased)

As far as I can tell, in The Stormlight Archive, we have seen three different lights: the stormlight, the amberlight in the flashbacks, and the dark light in the stone. Do those correspond to the three Shards?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, the amberlight is more a function of...it's no different than the stormlight.

Questioner (paraphrased)

So, you see that in a storm? Like when gems gather that in the storm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That amberlight is more related to... so, no... you are not seeing something other than stormlight. That is like saying that stormlight in a topaz is a different color than stormlight in a sapphire. It's not different colors; you're just seeing it filtered through something. The dark light of the, um, the gemstone that Szeth was given is indeed something different and distinct.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Voooiidlight?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, it is related to a different shard. How about that?

We konw how Cultivationlight looks like, so this lives us Odium.

That WoB doesn't prove that Voidlight is Odium's investiture, all it says is that it's related to a different shard. That could mean it's related to Odium because Odium's investiture is capable of burning and releasing the innate investiture stored in gemhearts to produce Voidlight. It could also mean that it is Investiture keyed to an entirely different shard. I think it's most likely both, because post shattering all investiture was assigned to the 16 shards, and like it or not, Shards and their investiture are color coded. Odium's colors are red and yellow gold, not violet, and I think one of the reasons that red is an Odious color and also the color of corrupted investiture is because the ability to co-opt and consume other forms of Investiture is a feature of Odium's magic system.

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15 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Prior to the shattering, during the time when the Singers were the predominant sapient species on Roshar (and possibly the Reshi Islands too), there were 3 types of Investiture.

This is not true. Prior to the shattering there was 1 type of Investiture anywhere in the Cosmere. Adonalsium's. Post shattering the existing Investiture was "split" along Shardic Intents everywhere in the cosmere.  

Despite this I really like what you've done here with the theory. I just don't agree with it. I think that you rely on only assumptions to form your theory that coincide well in your interpretation. Additionally, the Unmade were created fairly early on in the desolations (not before), and not all of them were present for every desolation. The sibling however, was likely one of 3 ancient spren that pre-existed the Oathpact (Stormfather, Nightwatcher, Sibling). While it's plausible that the Sibling breaks from the other two Bondsmith spren and was created later, I think that is a stretch. 

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25 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Shards and their investiture are color coded. Odium's colors are red and yellow gold, not violet, and I think one of the reasons that red is an Odious color and also the color of corrupted investiture is because the ability to co-opt and consume other forms of Investiture is a feature of Odium's magic system.

You konw, Red and Violet are on oposite sides od Spectrum. They are oposites. Very much like white (all emited) and black (all absorbed). So basicly they can be White and Red... turned to suck (absorb) emotions. So are seing as dark and Violet.

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53 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

like it or not, Shards and their investiture are color coded. Odium's colors are red and yellow gold, not violet

It happens because of perception

Quote

Argent (paraphrased)

Ruin and Preservation were often represented in the Mistborn trilogy in terms of black and white. Is this imagery limited to that series, or do other Shards also have an associated hue?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This (Ruin & Preservation's colors) was because of the specific world and their perception of the world and themselves. Essentially, because of the dynamics of the interplay between Ruin and Preservation, they "chose" to view themselves as black and white respectively, so that's how they were represented. Also, because the only two Shards on Scadrial, and their natures were opposites, after the long period of time they spent on the same planet, they kind of "polarized." If similar thing happened on another world, similar coloring effect could happen.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)
Quote

Questioner

So, we know in Mistborn there is this running... you can say, motif about Ruin being associated with the color black and Preservation with the color white, we see a lot of very subtle and a lot of very unsubtle...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yes.

Questioner

Is such a motif present in any other books? I think I see it in Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, in Stormlight you can see it. So, Ruin is a red-gold... not Ruin, Odium. Odium is a red-gold. Honor is a blue-white and Cultivation is green, obviously. So, those motifs stay, when you... when you see a red or a gold, it's a reddish gold sort of thing, either of those colors, it's going to be Odium.

Questioner

Even when we something we might suspect to be outside influence in other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Not necessarily, because red can also mean corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere. So, I would call Odium's real color gold, because you're going to see red when Odium is corrupting other things, so...

Questioner

It's not necessarily on Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

It's not necessarily Odium. So, you're asking for the invading force on Mistborn, it doesn't necessarily mean Odium because it's red. So red just kind of means corruption. I've talked about that before, so. Not necessarily, not definitive, yeah.

Footnote: When Sanderson said "you're asking about the invading force on Mistborn", the questioner made a guilty "caught red-handed" shrug.
ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

I think here Brandon is confirming that the red association with Odium is mostly Corruption, while gold is probably because of how he views himself: he wears a crown & carries around a sceptre.

Brandon might also have simply made a mistake here with the colors, like he did while calling Oathbringer an Honorblade

We do see Odium's "true form" in Oathbringer and it was violet and gold. Voidlight is described as a violet unlight. We do see Voidlight used by the Fused, and have been told that Voidbinding is of Odium.

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1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Hmph, let's ask the oldest questions regarding similar ideas then:

Ba-Ado-Mishram was said to be Highprincess among the Voidbringers. A leader and general. The Bondsmith of the Sibling would also be in a leadership position among Honor's forces. Why would either side allow a being to be in such a high position in the chain-of-command?

It doesn't make sense for the Radiants to have their home base maintained by a spren of the enemy. It doesn't make sense for Odium to allow one of his underlings to provide a homebase for his opponents either.

BAM could have been The Sibling before they were the Unmade. They were made and then unmade.

Just because BAM fought with the singers in past Desolations it doesn't necessarily follow that they were an Unmade at the time.

The idea that they could be controlled through the Bondsmiths bond would probably be enough of a rationale for using a giant bondable battery to power Urithiru. If any Radiant order could be subject to overweening confidence, I think the Bondsmiths with the powers of gods could be thus deluded and believe themselves capable of controlling the Sibling even if they were an unwilling participant in the Bond.

If Navani could make fabrials that she could usefully employ that use voidspren she wouldn't think twice about doing so. And Urithiru is a giant fabrial.

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

I like the idea of the Sibling being an Adonalsium spren, or being of both Honor and Cultivation (like Feruchemy is from both Preservation and Ruin), or being an unCorrupted Dawnshard while the Corrupted ones became Unmade

I like that theory too, I'm just putting this out there as an alternate theory that ties up a lot of the loose ends. It's early days to be sure, but I think the gem archive tells a pretty compelling story. The Battery at Urithiru is failing, the Sibling Withdraws and suddenly the Singers have an entity capable of supplying Voidlight.

 

1 hour ago, GudThymes said:

This is not true. Prior to the shattering there was 1 type of Investiture anywhere in the Cosmere. Adonalsium's. Post shattering the existing Investiture was "split" along Shardic Intents everywhere in the cosmere.  

That is very true, it's a very involved theory post (I still need to go back and edit out the typos and strange bits of formatting). What I meant was that pre-shattering there were 3 means of distributing investiture, and post shattering these different means of Investitute distribution were split along lines of Shardic intent. We know from WOB (I'll add the wob later, I'm typing on mobile right now) that Odium is not interested in Investing Roshar, so the innate Investiture of Gemhearts is most likely keyed to another Shard, hence the disconnect between the color of voidlight and Odiums shardic colors.

1 hour ago, GudThymes said:

Despite this I really like what you've done here with the theory. I just don't agree with it. I think that you rely on only assumptions to form your theory that coincide well in your interpretation. Additionally, the Unmade were created fairly early on in the desolations (not before), and not all of them were present for every desolation. The sibling however, was likely one of 3 ancient spren that pre-existed the Oathpact (Stormfather, Nightwatcher, Sibling). While it's plausible that the Sibling breaks from the other two Bondsmith spren and was created later, I think that is a stretch. 

Yeah, there are a lot of assumptions built into the theory, but they all have pretty solid foundations. This is definitely a speculative theory built of inferences and reasoned conjectures, but we have very little solid information about BAM and tge sibling. I'm sure this will all be cleared up when RoW is out, because it definitely seems like someone is going to bond the sibling and get Urithieu back up and running.

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

You konw, Red and Violet are on oposite sides od Spectrum. They are oposites. Very much like white (all emited) and black (all absorbed). So basicly they can be White and Red... turned to suck (absorb) emotions. So are seing as dark and Violet.

But that still doesn't explain why the moon Selas is violet. I think something else is going on here.

38 minutes ago, Honorless said:

I think here Brandon is confirming that the red association with Odium is mostly Corruption, while gold is probably because of how he views himself: he wears a crown & carries around a sceptre.

Exactly, because corrupting/consuming other forms of Investiture is a fundamental feature of his magic system. That's where the void part comes in.

40 minutes ago, Honorless said:

We do see Odium's "true form" in Oathbringer and it was violet and gold. Voidlight is described as a violet unlight. We do see Voidlight used by the Fused, and have been told that Voidbinding is of Odium.

Could you qoute that passage? I don't have the OB ebook, and I lent my physical copy to my buddy so he could be caught up before RoW comes out. I honestly don't recall him being described as violet.

As far as seeing the Fused use Voidlight, it makes sense because a primary feature of their biology is that they have a physical chunk of investiture that they are born with, their gemheart (or more precisely the Singer's body that they took over had one). And my surmise is that Odium allows that type of investiture to be converted from innate stored investiture to kinetic investiture, which manifests as the violet tinged anti-glow instead of a red or yellow glow because the Fused is in fact using their own innate investiture.

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1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Just because BAM fought with the singers in past Desolations it doesn't necessarily follow that they were an Unmade at the time.

Sure, but it's a simpler explanation and thus more agreeable (I won't say more likely because it's fiction and it is all equally likely) unless we are given evidence to the contrary. I follow your logic fine, but for me you're really tweaking the information we've been given to fit you're conjecture. 

 

The unmade (including BAM) are Splinters of Odium, they are part of his investiture. It's possible that BAM could be the third sibling, but why would the fact that it is bound to a Radiant make it more likely to help their cause? Why would Odium allow this?

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17 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Boy is that a doozy! This clearly establishes that at the time of the False Desolation the Sibling was unbonded, because if the sole Bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling there wouldn't have been any uncertaintity as to what is happening with the functioning of the Tower.

I don't think so.  Dalinar still has trouble understanding the stormfather sometimes even Pattern and Shallan have this problem.  I think it is probably consistent across the board that the three great spren were often difficult to understand.

19 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

This entry shows that at least one Truthwatcher at the tower had their spren corrupted by Sja-Anat.

Or that they feel immense gilt about not speaking about this before hand having deduced it would happen using normal methods(we know some Truthwatchers worked as "investigative journalist").

19 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Of special note is the fact that there is no mention of the enemy having access to Voidlight at this point.

Why would this be noted?  If the enemy is expected to have voidlight and everyone knows this why point it out?

19 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

This I think is a small bit of foreshadowing, namely that the only perfect gem we know of, The Honor's Drop, is mentioned before the strikeforce sets out to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram in a perfect gem. We know from Oathbringer that prior to the battle of Thaylen Fields the Honor's Drop wasn't imprisioning an Unmade, suggesting heavily that whatever had previously been imprisoned in the Honor's Drop no longer is.

Brandon has confirmed that there are enough perfect gems to imprison all unmade.  No reason exists stating that this has to be the same one.  We even know the spren of the CR have some that they use for banking.  They even use the plural term "perfect gems."

Quote

Questioner

Are there enough perfect gemstones on Roshar to capture all of the Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there are.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

19 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

This one is an obvious call back to the Drawer 20-10 Zircon (the one about capturing an Unmade in a perfect gem), and implies heavily that at least part of Ba-Ado-Mishram was trapped within Honor's Drop by Melishi post strike force ops.

What why?  It just says they think they can catch one.  Also 20-10 Zircon just says that the elsecallers have the perfect gems.  Nothing about the unmade is in there.

19 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Before Melishi's strikeforce leaves to imprison BAM, even the Stonewards are questioning thier place as Radiants. That's a bad sign.

This is just a quibble but questioning your place and life choices is generally a good sign.  It means that you are concerned with ethics and are less likely to be some kind of fanatic.

20 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

The Horneaters have three powerful gods they sought aid from: the Gods of the waters, the Gods of the mountains and the Gods of the trees. [12] This may refer to Roshar's three Shards.

But Honor and Cultivation arrived before the humans did.  Wouldn't spren stone and wind have already been split?

20 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

The Tower's subsystems, powered by the Sibling, began to malfunction, but they didn't all stop at once, implying that the Tower was still recieving partial power. The Elsecaller's observations about the Sibling not withdrawing by intent, and the description of the Sibling's reflections in Shadesmar, heavily imply that the spren is a composite being with more than one part, and that one portion of the Sibling had withdrawn or had been corrupted by Sja-Anat (or likely both).

Sja-anat states in OB that she had never worked on a spren as powerful as the oathgate spren.  I would think that the sibling would be as or more powerful.

20 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I posit that BAM was indeed imprisoned in the Honor's drop mentioned in form in the Drawer 20-10: Zircon, and in function in the Drawer 30-20: Third Emerald. The fact that the Honor's drop was used in the Battle of Thaylen fields by Dalinar the Bondsmith to capture Neragoul, shows two important factors. 1) It worked as a prison for an Unmade when wielded by a Bondsmith who had a Connection to that Unmade, and 2) More interestingly, that if the Honor's drop was used by Melishi to enprison Ba-Ado-Mishram (As it is heavily implied in the Gem Archives that it was), then at least at the time of the Battle of Thaylen Fields BAM is no longer imprisoned. Further evidence of this Lack of imprisonment follows

Wouldn't they Theylen's notice if a spren were inside Honor's drop?  They kept it infused too.

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3 hours ago, GudThymes said:

Sure, but it's a simpler explanation and thus more agreeable (I won't say more likely because it's fiction and it is all equally likely) unless we are given evidence to the contrary. I follow your logic fine, but for me you're really tweaking the information we've been given to fit you're conjecture. 

I prefer to think of it as arranging the pieces so a different pattern emerges, haha, but for sure it's a highly speculative theory.

3 hours ago, GudThymes said:

The unmade (including BAM) are Splinters of Odium, they are part of his investiture. It's possible that BAM could be the third sibling, but why would the fact that it is bound to a Radiant make it more likely to help their cause? Why would Odium allow this?

That is a good point, but I would say that just because the Unmade are splinters of Odium, that doesn't mean he controls them. The example of Sja-Anat wanting to defect ( however dubious this claim is) implies that it's a plausible thing for an Unmade to do, namely switch sides. This implies a volitional component to the operation of the Unmade (at least the ones with higher levels of Sapience) and BAM could be wishing to switch sides because her allegiance is with the Singers and she realizes Odium's only goal is the destruction of Cultivation.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

I don't think so.  Dalinar still has trouble understanding the stormfather sometimes even Pattern and Shallan have this problem.  I think it is probably consistent across the board that the three great spren were often difficult to understand.

If the Sibling were bonded by a Bondsmith I don't think it would have been an open question whether they withdrew from men with "intent" or not, unless the Sibling was bonded against their will. And if the Sibling were bonded against their will I don't see why anyone would have been surprised that the Sibling withdrew. And if the Sibling was willingly bonded and withdrew with intent, why wouldn't they let their Bondsmith know why they were withdrawing?

2 hours ago, Karger said:

What why?  It just says they think they can catch one.  Also 20-10 Zircon just says that the elsecallers have the perfect gems.  Nothing about the unmade is in there.

You're totally right, it doesn't have to be the Honor's drop that was used to capture BAM, but it is a perfect gem that we know was in possession of the Radiants at the Tower prior to Melishi's strike force operation.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Or that they feel immense gilt about not speaking about this before hand having deduced it would happen using normal methods(we know some Truthwatchers worked as "investigative journalist").

Fair point, I still think that it's telling that preceding the alarmist entry about his/her fellow Truthwatchers a Lightweaver made an entry worrying about the Tower's defenses. I'm obviously looking for a pattern, but this seems like a pretty solid inference. Oh no the tower defenses might be comprised. Oh man we got watch those Truthwatchers. They are at the very least thematically related.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

This is just a quibble but questioning your place and life choices is generally a good sign.  It means that you are concerned with ethics and are less likely to be some kind of fanatic.

Yes, good point. When put that way it's probably just showing what ethical folks the Stonewards were on the Eve of the mass lobotimization of an entire race.

 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

But Honor and Cultivation arrived before the humans did.  Wouldn't spren stone and wind have already been split?

Not necessarily. I believe it was the arrival of the humans that caused new sprens to form that were the primary foci of Stormlight distribution and Cultivationlight distribution as perceived by the humans. If there is a reciprocal relationship between belief in and the access to power of God level spren, then the 3000+ years that the Singers were in slaveform probably significantly diminished the power of the original, dislocated Singer gods of Wind and Spren.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Sja-anat states in OB that she had never worked on a spren as powerful as the oathgate spren.  I would think that the sibling would be as or more powerful.

I don't recall that part, but it's not unreasonable to think that the most duplicitous of all Spren, the Taker of Secrets herself, might have lied about that.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Wouldn't they Theylen's notice if a spren were inside Honor's drop?  They kept it infused too.

Yeah, since it has appeared onscreen in OB it definitely wasn't imprisoning an Unmade until Dalinar trapped Neragoul in it.

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1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

If the Sibling were bonded by a Bondsmith I don't think it would have been an open question whether they withdrew from men with "intent" or not, unless the Sibling was bonded against their will. And if the Sibling were bonded against their will I don't see why anyone would have been surprised that the Sibling withdrew. And if the Sibling was willingly bonded and withdrew with intent, why wouldn't they let their Bondsmith know why they were withdrawing?

The sibling does not understand gender.  Is it so unreasonable to presume that it could not adequately explain whether it was doing something intentionally or not?

1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

You're totally right, it doesn't have to be the Honor's drop that was used to capture BAM, but it is a perfect gem that we know was in possession of the Radiants at the Tower prior to Melishi's strike force operation.

Except several other gems were also there.

1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Fair point, I still think that it's telling that preceding the alarmist entry about his/her fellow Truthwatchers a Lightweaver made an entry worrying about the Tower's defenses. I'm obviously looking for a pattern, but this seems like a pretty solid inference. Oh no the tower defenses might be comprised. Oh man we got watch those Truthwatchers. They are at the very least thematically related.

I always thought that was a red hearing so that we would not notice Renarin's strangeness.  Also any Truthwatcher whose job it is to look for objective truth might not be doing so well when the end times are on us.

1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I don't recall that part, but it's not unreasonable to think that the most duplicitous of all Spren, the Taker of Secrets herself, might have lied about that.

But assuming your theory is correct then how could Sja-anat corrupt something already of Odium?  You can't Odiumify(academic term) something already made of Odium.

1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Yeah, since it has appeared onscreen in OB it definitely wasn't imprisoning an Unmade until Dalinar trapped Neragoul in it.

The Theylens kept in infused for centuries before that too.  BAM could not have gotten out of their recently.

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15 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Could you qoute that passage? I don't have the OB ebook, and I lent my physical copy to my buddy so he could be caught up before RoW comes out. I honestly don't recall him being described as violet.

No, but it should be simple enough to find. It's when Odium first appears to Dalinar in a Vision and Dalinar responds that he now knows the enemy, Odium shows him his power: a flame that starts white, to gold, to violet that sucked in the light, emanating heated passions.

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8 hours ago, Karger said:

But assuming your theory is correct then how could Sja-anat corrupt something already of Odium?  You can't Odiumify(academic term) something already made of Odium.

BAM could have been a commander in the Singer's forces and the battery of Urithiru before she/they were Unmade. The corruption by Sja-Anat could have been the means by which she/they started down the path to becoming an unmade. 

 

8 hours ago, Karger said:

The Theylens kept in infused for centuries before that too.  BAM could not have gotten out of their recently.

BAM being imprisoned in the Honor's Drop was just a fun conjecture and not central to the main theory. But more troubling to this theory is:

22 minutes ago, Honorless said:

No, but it should be simple enough to find. It's when Odium first appears to Dalinar in a Vision and Dalinar responds that he now knows the enemy, Odium shows him his power: a flame that starts white, to gold, to violet that sucked in the light, emanating heated passions.

I used the search inside feature of Google books that @The One Who Connects told me about to find the passage, a screenshot of it is Spoilered below because it's really tall:

Spoiler

20200827_025415.thumb.jpg.57f356d7a4934669c90a04744ac1bc13.jpg

I have to think about this more, but it seems to be a pretty solid nail in the coffin of this theory, especially the part that says:

Quote

Dalinar looked ... up at the old man. In Odium's eyes, he could see that violet-black fire. Deep, deep within. The figure with whom Dalinar spoke was not the god, it was merely a face, a mask.

If there was any doubt what Odium truly is the "Deep, deep within." part clears it up pretty decisively. This passage seems to imply that the violet-black fire is the most essentially Odium part about him.

Thanks for pointing this out Honorless, I'll have to think on this a bit but right now it seems like pretty damming evidence.

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1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

BAM could have been a commander in the Singer's forces and the battery of Urithiru before she/they were Unmade. The corruption by Sja-Anat could have been the means by which she/they started down the path to becoming an unmade. 

So they were actively working for both sides and the radiants chose to build their capital around them?

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If Ba-Ado-Mishram is the parsh spren of stone, who/what is the ninth Unmade? Nine is Odium’s number, not eight. Hessi specifically could not name all nine, but was sure of eight, including BAM, and speculated on Dai-Gonarthis. 


All of the sentient Unmade have hyphenated names. 

If the Stormstriders are displaced parsh gods of wind and spren, it makes sense that one would walk the storms but not the other. What’s the non-wind doing in another’s territory?
 

The pronoun thing is a big problem for me. If Hessi never referred to BAM as they 
in her writings, it seems unlikely that she was called they in an lore. If she was the sibling, you haven’t offered any good argument for why Hessi called her female. Your argument about only one part of her having gender identity isn’t a convincing way around the wob. If parts of the sibling were different genders, Sanderson probably would have said that instead, instead of being so misleading. (Or simply RAFO)
 

Why would the Radiants have recorded ‘something is wrong with the sibling’ and then ‘we’re going after BAM’? It’s ridiculously deceiving to switch terms like that. Also, if BAM had started off as an Unmade and then transitioned to the humans’ side with a bond, your theory claims this happens after the first few desolations. That’s millennia! The Radiants would be millennia removed from the last time they had open conversation with parsh......they couldn’t have made that connection. They wouldn’t have known to call her/they the sibling because they wouldn’t know about the three original spren, and the displacements. They would only know her/they as an Unmade now bonded to a Radiant-no way they referred to her as ‘Sibling’ especially if they already had a name (ba-ado-mishram) that they had been using. 
 

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I'm going to respond to some of this, but really at this point it's all academic, the hinge upon which this theory was built is a flawed premise, namely that Voidlight is not of Odium. It seems our best information about the nature of Voidlight comes from Dalinar's impressions of Odium from the scene pointed out by @Honorless . In the continuum of Odiums flame, from red to orange to yellow gold to black-violet, the part that burns the hottest and consumes that on which it feeds is the black-violet flames, the fire that leaves only the Void. This is clearly the point where the object of Odious influence has fully capitulated to their hatred and is being consumed by it. 

On to Academia...

6 hours ago, Karger said:

So they were actively working for both sides and the radiants chose to build their capital around them?

This is still plausible, Sja-Anat is (maybe) trying to switch sides, and if a powerful entity capable of powering your magical energy hungry Tower applies for the job, even with a checkered past, you'd probably said yes. Possible too is that the Sibling/BAM was trapped in Urithiru like a Spren in a fabrial, and the Bondsmith's job was akin to chief engineer making sure that the power was flowing right.

1 hour ago, CameronUluvara said:

If Ba-Ado-Mishram is the parsh spren of stone, who/what is the ninth Unmade? Nine is Odium’s number, not eight. Hessi specifically could not name all nine, but was sure of eight, including BAM, and speculated on Dai-Gonarthis

When I was trying to square the circle and make this theory work, I thought that just the Spren of Stone portion of the Sibling was what was referred to as BAM. Though they share a common Identity, they are still discrete, and I thought it was this portion of the Sibling that had been turned into an Unmade. 

 

1 hour ago, CameronUluvara said:

If the Stormstriders are displaced parsh gods of wind and spren, it makes sense that one would walk the storms but not the other. What’s the non-wind doing in another’s territory?
 

The displaced Singer God of Spren and the displaced Singer God of Wind both walk near the eye of the Highstorm because the Stormfather is protecting them. That is in fact their slumbering, this state of non-interaction and isolation, sheltering in the Highstorm.

1 hour ago, CameronUluvara said:

The pronoun thing is a big problem for me. If Hessi never referred to BAM as they 
in her writings, it seems unlikely that she was called they in an lore. If she was the sibling, you haven’t offered any good argument for why Hessi called her female. Your argument about only one part of her having gender identity isn’t a convincing way around the wob. If parts of the sibling were different genders, Sanderson probably would have said that instead, instead of being so misleading. (Or simply RAFO)

The pronoun thing, Hessi's reference to BAM and that WoB are definitely problematic for this theory, but they can be overcome. Voidlight being probably the most Odious of Odium's manifestations of Investiture is a death knell for this theory.

1 hour ago, CameronUluvara said:

Why would the Radiants have recorded ‘something is wrong with the sibling’ and then ‘we’re going after BAM’? It’s ridiculously deceiving to switch terms like that. Also, if BAM had started off as an Unmade and then transitioned to the humans’ side with a bond, your theory claims this happens after the first few desolations. That’s millennia! The Radiants would be millennia removed from the last time they had open conversation with parsh......they couldn’t have made that connection. They wouldn’t have known to call her/they the sibling because they wouldn’t know about the three original spren, and the displacements. They would only know her/they as an Unmade now bonded to a Radiant-no way they referred to her as ‘Sibling’ especially if they already had a name (ba-ado-mishram) that they had been using. 

Again all good points, but as I look into the lifeless eyes of my trusty Ryshadium of a theory, and tenderly stroke it's neck I decide that it's time to admit that its inherent contradictions, its flawed premises and its magnificent speculative leaps have brought it down and it lives no more. It was a fun ride, but it's time to stop propping up a dead horse.

Goodnight Sweet Suppositions, Goodnight Sweet Surmises, Goodnight Sweet Theory.

 

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
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  • 2 weeks later...

It is worth noting that Red, Green and Blue are the three types of light we usually see... BUT: we can also see Violet light, separate from the other three. Considering the three light shades we commonly see are associated with specific Shards, it does seem interesting that Voidlight correlates to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violet_light

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