Imperial Nomic: The Final Empire

[ElectrumSavant]

12 hours ago, Danex said:

Proposal 1: I propose that if the Lord ruler rejects this or the following proposals, I win.

Proposal 2: I propose that I win. 

Proposal 3: I propose that since time is relative and because of the Multiverse theory, the previous 2 proposals have already been passed at some point. 

Judgment

Here we have a failure to follow Rule 201 (having in animal in your first post of the page). As this is a first offense, and was your first post in the thread (so you might not have known of the rule), I fine you 2 Atium. Let the executions begin.

9 hours ago, Illwei said:

(1) Houses may borrow Atium from other Houses assuming:
     (a) that Atium does not satisfy the wincon (b) they follow whatever rules that house sets for the borrowing (ie. Taxing, Interest, idk...etc.)

Accepted.

9 hours ago, Illwei said:

(2) Houses that are in the negative numbers of Atium will be taxed -2 atium per page while they stay in Debt, and will not be counted as an "official house" in the Census (ie: no voting rights if any additional laws are passed that grants houses voting rights or things like that) until they get out of debt to the Lord Ruler.

Accepted. Perhaps we should call in-debt houses "skaa"?

9 hours ago, Danex said:

I propose that the rest of the players who do not have any sort of role now compose the Senate. A unanimous vote from the Senate can reverse the ruling of the Lord Ruler. The senate may only overthrow the Lore Ruler once per page.

I'm not going to accept or reject this quite yet; I want a bit more time to mull it over.

9 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

I propose that an updated table of Houses and their Atium be included in the first post.

I'm a bit hesitant to take on this duty officially, as I originally intended for the Obligator to do that job for me via the census. I'm not sure what @Doomstick is waiting on- if someone else wants to be Obligator instead and promises to post a Census within today, I'm willing to appoint them Obligator. I'm going to Reject this proposal for now.

9 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

I propose that the Lord Ruler can fine a house upto 10 Atium for failing to follow rules.

 Accepted. This seems like an acceptable cap for Judgements.

6 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

I propose that if the Obligator doesn't post a census at least once every 4 pages OR at least once every 3 days, their title is removed and they are fined 15 atium. The House who first notices that the Obligator isn't fulfilling their duty and reports them will be awarded 5 atium.

Just seeing this now. Accepted, but I'm adding the clarification "whichever is larger". Note that today is the 3rd day without a census; if @Doomstick doesn't post a census today then this rule will come into effect.

Edited August 27, 2020 by ElectrumSavant
Chinkoln's proposal

[Chinkoln]

I propose that the Lord Ruler can, on occasion, put a proposal on hold. The Lord Ruler doesn't make a decision until more information can be brought forth. No atium is rewarded or penalized until the Lord Ruler makes a final decision. A proposal can only be put on hold for a maximum of 2 days.

This would be useful in a situation where someone proposes something but not everything is understood yet.

1 hour ago, ElectrumSavant said:

I'm not going to accept or reject this quite yet; I want a bit more time to mull it over.

I'm a bit hesitant to take on this duty officially, as I originally intended for the Obligator to do that job for me via the census. I'm not sure what @Doomstick is waiting on- if someone else wants to be Obligator instead and promises to post a Census within today, I'm willing to appoint them Obligator. I'm going to Reject this proposal for now.

These two situations would make it a useful law to have in place.

[theTruthshaper]

I propose: 

The house with the Atium mines must henceforth include a statement to the effect, "I am mining Atium" to earn Atium for that page.

An amendment to the bets rule, a transaction of Atium need not take form of a bet. A service provided can also paid for in Atium. Addition, this rule no longer discriminates against the Lord Ruler.

 

This offer is only possible if my second proposal is accepted:

I will be willing to provide a census for 22 Atium from the Lord Ruler.

ᓚᘏᗢ

Edited August 27, 2020 by The_Truthwatcher

[ElectrumSavant]

1 hour ago, Chinkoln said:

I propose that the Lord Ruler can, on occasion, put a proposal on hold. The Lord Ruler doesn't make a decision until more information can be brought forth. No atium is rewarded or penalized until the Lord Ruler makes a final decision. A proposal can only be put on hold for a maximum of 2 days.

This would be useful in a situation where someone proposes something but not everything is understood yet.

To be clear, what happens after two days? Is the proposal automatically Rejected, or does the proposer get some kind of Atium reward as compensation for the Lord Ruler taking too long?

28 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

The house with the Atium mines must henceforth include a statement to the effect, "I am mining Atium" to earn Atium for that page.

Accepted.

29 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

An amendment to the bets rule, a transaction of Atium need not take form of a bet. A service provided can also paid for in Atium. Addition, this rule no longer discriminates against the Lord Ruler.

Accepted. At current, though, might I note that it would be difficult for the Lord Ruler to make transactions- I started with no Atium, and I can't gain or lose Atium while in office per rule 101.

31 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

This offer is only possible if my second proposal is accepted:

I will be willing to provide a census for 22 Atium from the Lord Ruler.

I'm willing to accept the offer, but it takes a bit of legal maneuvering. I'll make you Obligator, and give you a reward of 10 Atium per Rule 109. That would mean your first Census would earn you 20 Atium total, not the full 22. Is that acceptable?

[theTruthshaper]

Just now, ElectrumSavant said:

To be clear, what happens after two days? Is the proposal automatically Rejected, or does the proposer get some kind of Atium reward as compensation for the Lord Ruler taking too long?

Accepted.

Accepted. At current, though, might I note that it would be difficult for the Lord Ruler to make transactions- I started with no Atium, and I can't gain or lose Atium while in office per rule 101.

I'm willing to accept the offer, but it takes a bit of legal maneuvering. I'll make you Obligator, and give you a reward of 10 Atium per Rule 109. That would mean your first Census would earn you 20 Atium total, not the full 22. Is that acceptable?

I just wanted the 2 to get a round number for myself, it's alright. Census in spoiler: (This includes what I just earned)

Spoiler

Fadran		10
Truthwatcher	Soliel	68
Doomstick		50
Matrim	Ethorris	15
Negative	Tellen	55
Illwei	Relidan	65
Chinkoln	Domhan	38
Danex	ImGonnaHackThisEventuallyJustYouWait	-12

 

[ElectrumSavant]

10 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

 

  Hide contents

Fadran		10
Truthwatcher	Soliel	68
Doomstick		50
Matrim	Ethorris	15
Negative	Tellen	55
Illwei	Relidan	65
Chinkoln	Domhan	38
Danex	ImGonnaHackThisEventuallyJustYouWait	-12

 

Excellent. Remember to include the roles: Lord Ruler, Obligator, Inquisitor, and Favored House; and the currently pending proposals.

Edited August 27, 2020 by ElectrumSavant

[Negative_Null]

Skaa @Danex, I will get you out of debt in exchange for you becoming my Vassal. You will support my proposals when necessary and I can tell you to drop any proposal at any time. This contract will end at the end of page 5 or unless you put another kind of end to our agreement.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Negative_Null

[---]

18 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

I just wanted the 2 to get a round number for myself, it's alright. Census in spoiler: (This includes what I just earned)

  Reveal hidden contents

Fadran		10
Truthwatcher	Soliel	68
Doomstick		50
Matrim	Ethorris	15
Negative	Tellen	55
Illwei	Relidan	65
Chinkoln	Domhan	38
Danex	ImGonnaHackThisEventuallyJustYouWait	-12

 

Currently not the numbers I have. can you explain? I am double checking my numbers currently but as you were appointed obligator....

Edited August 27, 2020 by Illwei
Double checking numbers

[Chinkoln]

16 minutes ago, ElectrumSavant said:

To be clear, what happens after two days? Is the proposal automatically Rejected, or does the proposer get some kind of Atium reward as compensation for the Lord Ruler taking too long?

It is the Lord Ruler's right to take time if he wants, so there is no compensation for waiting unless the Lord Ruler would like to bestow atium upon the proposer, as per allowed by rule 109. After 2 days the Lord Ruler must either accept or deny the proposal. If after 3 days the Lord Ruler hasn't accepted or denied a proposal that he put on hold, then the proposal is automatically accepted.

[Negative_Null]

26 minutes ago, ElectrumSavant said:

Excellent. Remember to include the roles: Lord Ruler, Obligator, Inquisitor, and Favored House; and the currently pending proposals.

I believe this post allows me to invoke the "aa" rule. There are only two "a"s. I get 5 Atium.

I am mining Atium

Edited August 27, 2020 by Negative_Null

[ElectrumSavant]

17 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

It is the Lord Ruler's right to take time if he wants, so there is no compensation for waiting unless the Lord Ruler would like to bestow atium upon the proposer, as per allowed by rule 109. After 2 days the Lord Ruler must either accept or deny the proposal. If after 3 days the Lord Ruler hasn't accepted or denied a proposal that he put on hold, then the proposal is automatically accepted.

Rejected. I'm hesitant to accept any rule that allows a law to be passed without any consideration; if the proposal is automatically accepted after 3 days, then it likely means that the Lord Ruler just forgot about it.

13 hours ago, Danex said:

I propose that the rest of the players who do not have any sort of role now compose the Senate. A unanimous vote from the Senate can reverse the ruling of the Lord Ruler. The senate may only overthrow the Lore Ruler once per page. 

I need more clarity here. When you say "reverse the ruling of the Lord Ruler", do you mean that Judgments can be appealed to the Senate, or that they can change the Lord Ruler's decision on a proposed law?

[---]

I'm currently writing the count I have, but I would like to quickly: ask for a Call to Judgement.

12 minutes ago, Negative_Null said:

I believe this post allows me to invoke the "aa" rule. There are only two "a"s. I get 5 Atium.

I am mining Atium

This is House Tellen's Recent Statement, it has 8 total A's, which normally wouldn't be a problem. I see a problem here as they refer to rule 206 as the "aa" rule, when they are the only one to do so in thread, and it would be just as easy to call it "rule 206". Without these two "aa"'s, though, they only have 6 "a"s and would be breaking the rule themselves.

[Negative_Null]

I have to admit that seems fair to me, and I am the one that made the rule and then called it out.

[---]

HOUSE RELIDAN'S UNOFFICIAL CENSUS
(BECAUSE OUR NUMBERS DO NOT APPEAR TO MATCH HOUSE SOLIEL'S)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Lord Ruler
ElectrumSavant 

HOUSES (in Good Favor/Nobles)
(85) - House Relidan: Inquisitor
(68) - House Soliel: Obligator
(65) - House Tellen: Favored House
(36) - House Otter
(50) - House Wafre
(15) - House Ethorris
(10) - House Fadran

HOUSES (out of Favor/Skaa)
(12) - House Ightejyw (Danex)

PENDING PROPOSALS
--

If anyone would like to see how I came to this/It contradicts you, lmk 

@The_Truthwatcher

Edited August 27, 2020 by Illwei

[Chinkoln]

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

HOUSE RELIDAN'S UNOFFICIAL CENSUS
(BECAUSE OUR NUMBERS DO NOT APPEAR TO MATCH HOUSE SOLIEL'S)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Lord Ruler
ElectrumSavant 

Obligator
House Soliel

Inquisitor
House Relidan

Favored House
House Tellen

Houses in Good Favor
(10) - House Fadran
(68) - House Soliel: Obligator

May I ask where the rest of the houses are? I would like to change what I said earlier about being House Domhan, and I will change my name to House Otter.

[Negative_Null]

I propose an amendment to the Senate rule. Any proposal can be seconded. If it is seconded by a Noble, it will simultaneously go to the Lord Ruler and to the Senate. A proposal can be passed by either group. The Senate must pass it by 3/4 vote, but Inquisitors, Obligators, Favored Houses, and any other role gets two votes. Skaa do not get to vote

[---]

2 minutes ago, Chinkoln said:

May I ask where the rest of the houses are? I would like to change what I said earlier about being House Domhan, and I will change my name to House Otter.

I accidentally posted it. Changed now. 

[ElectrumSavant]

Very well.

19 minutes ago, Negative_Null said:

I believe this post allows me to invoke the "aa" rule. There are only two "a"s. I get 5 Atium.

I am mining Atium

Judgment

Using the two "aa"s together for the purpose of getting 7 a's in the message is a violation of Rule 206, which outlaws posting multiple a's together for that purpose. If the double a's had been part of a word, such as "bazaar", this would not be a violation of the rule. Similarly, if the double a's had not brought the total up to 7 a's, or if the total had been more than 7 a's, this also would not be a violation of the rule. However, since neither of those criteria were met, the Lord Ruler finds Negative_Null of House Tellen guilty and fines House Tellen 5 Atium.

Let the executions begin.

[---]

Okay now for my latest proposals, one reasonable, and one that will probably get rejected.

(1) Any Houses holding offices (Obligator, Inquisitor, Favored House, etc. The Idea of "senate" is not counted here) Will be fined double the normal noble fine when they break laws. 

(2) The Lord Ruler must Color Code His/Her Acceptances and Rejections as to make it easier for people keeping detailed spreadsheets and counting the Census to see who was Rejected and Accepted.

(3) The obligator's census is exempt from laws 206 and 201. No unofficial censuses are exempt.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Illwei

[+Doomstick]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:49 AM, ElectrumSavant said:

Approved, that seems like it will prevent overuse of the Mistborn.

Approved. If the proposal/amendment has not yet been approved, and another house blocks it with a Mistborn, that block can be unblocked with another Mistborn.

To be clear, is that a proposal for a rule that would change how the Census is taken, or is it just a request to all the other players that they post their House name and Atium total so that you can put it in the Census? If it is the second, my Atium score remains at 0, and as the Lord Ruler I have no house.

I count your current Atium as 50, including the Amendments that I approved here. Am I missing something?

It is the former

and if that is passed, it would be three passed Rule changes, this adding 30 atium

:3

Edited August 27, 2020 by Doomstick

[Chinkoln]

I propose that on every page that is a multiple of 5, all posts must have at least 3 "z"s in them, or they may have 3 "x"s.

[Negative_Null]

I would like to formally ask that this proposal be rejected because the "a" rule is complicated enough already, and I don't want to try and seamlessly work in "z"s.

[---]

Just now, Negative_Null said:

I would like to formally ask that this proposal be rejected because the "a" rule is complicated enough already, and I don't want to try and seamlessly work in "z"s.

I think the appropriate thing to do here would be to send a mistborn after him :P. 

Guys I am honestly spending way too much time here I need the next SE game to start up or else I'll have a problem

[ElectrumSavant]

31 minutes ago, Negative_Null said:

I propose an amendment to the Senate rule. Any proposal can be seconded. If it is seconded by a Noble, it will simultaneously go to the Lord Ruler and to the Senate. A proposal can be passed by either group. The Senate must pass it by 3/4 vote, but Inquisitors, Obligators, Favored Houses, and any other role gets two votes. Skaa do not get to vote

Accepted. Some clarification: Each role gives its owner an extra vote in the Senate. The 3/4 vote is based on the total number of votes among the Nobles, rounded up. So at present, there are 10 votes in the Senate, and a proposal or amendment must have 8 votes in order to pass after being seconded. If a proposal is accepted or rejected by one body (LR or Senate) before the other, then the proposal is law and the other body can't accept or reject it afterward.

21 minutes ago, Illwei said:

(1) Any Houses holding offices (Obligator, Inquisitor, Favored House, etc. The Idea of "senate" is not counted here) Will be fined double the normal noble fine when they break laws. 

Accepted. Note, however, that many laws don't have a standard Noble fine.

21 minutes ago, Illwei said:

(2) The Lord Ruler must Color Code His/Her Acceptances and Rejections as to make it easier for people keeping detailed spreadsheets and counting the Census to see who was Rejected and Accepted.

Accepted. I'm happy to make things a bit more clear.

On 8/25/2020 at 10:01 PM, Doomstick said:

a rule to say what happens in the census: each active player posts their house name and atium total.

Rejected. For clarity's sake, it is necessary that the Houses and Atium total be in one legible post; otherwise Atium totals could vary between posts.

[Chinkoln]

54 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I think the appropriate thing to do here would be to send a mistborn after him :P. 

Do you harbor an attention-grabbing desire to be the first house to activate their Mistborn to assassinate a proposal in the dead of night? (I used a lot of extravagant words to ensure that I got plenty of "a"s.)