Long Game 69: The Politics of the Passions

[Elkanah]

6:00 pm I think

[---]

23 minutes ago, Lotus said:

Anyone know what time the cycle ends PST?

theoretically it should be 6pm

EDIT: first time being ninja'd. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Illwei

[+Lotus]

Just now, Elkanah said:

6:00 pm I think

So that would be 6:00 pm Monday?

[---]

1 minute ago, Lotus said:

So that would be 6:00 pm Monday?

6pm tomorrow, so...*counts in head* yeah. Monday.

[Mat]

2 hours ago, Elkanah said:

You also have an idea for a terrible spoiler to use for 4 dimensional chess?!

...What? Actually, you know what, never mind. 

2 hours ago, Elkanah said:

I think the wording here is what felt weird to me. Coupled with that you followed TJ closely with suspicion of me for reasons I still can't guess at. 

Yeah, the way I word things has ben brought up before. Most of the time I play SE (I can't say all the time since I was an elim in TGK/your LG, and obviously as an elim I would think about the wording of my posts more) I just type whatever I would say IRL, so it comes out more like me rambling, and less like, well, a post. Nothing I can do about it, short of editing . As for me following TJ, that was me acknowledging he wasn't alone in the gut suspicion- mine which I hadn't mentioned yet- and TJ just was braver (more brave?) and said his suspicions first. I took that as breaking the ice a little bit.

That being said, you are probably the most active/most engaged people thus far in the game, so I don't want to lynch you off of a gut read, at least not yet.

1 hour ago, Illwei said:

I'm going to throw a vote on Vapor for now because they're doing my number....uh....3? top ranked suspicious activity of tagging other people to talk more but not really talking themselves. 

I like this vote. Seems village to me. I don't agree with the reasoning enough to follow it, but I like how it's put.

I'll hold off placing a vote for now.

EDIT: Forgot to respond to part of Elk's post :P.

2 hours ago, Elkanah said:

There is a fallacy that goes something like this: I usually think you are bad when you are good. Therefore, if I think you are good, then you are clearly bad. It feeds itself into a destructive pattern of "I can never believe you are good." I was nodding and winking at that fallacy.

Yeah, and I think I've even mentioned this in a previous game... I probably just shouldn't mention my trend on reading TJ ever again, huh. Treat every game with TJ like it's my first game with TJ.  

Edited August 30, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[---]

3 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I don't agree with the reasoning enough to follow it, but I like how it's put.

TBH if anyone decided to follow me just because of that reasoning I'd be kinda suspicious :P. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Illwei

[Mat]

12 hours ago, Illwei said:

TBH if anyone decided to follow me just because of that reasoning I'd be kinda suspicious :P. 

Well, that too  I spent a whole game being suspicious that everyone followed my votes, so I get the feeling.

Also, I feel like so far this game has been a lot of discussion about nothing. Like, there's 42 posts halfway through the cycle, and only 3 votes, one of which is a poke. I feel like we can do better than that :P.

EDIT: I just woke up, to no new posts. l...

Edited August 31, 2020 by Matrim's Dice
I say that but like I haven't voted either...

[Kynedath]

Okay, so the I'm going to make a list of the passions that are visible and possible to verify.

Passion of passion - irrelevant since it lets you choose other passions.

Passion of survival - you shove actions targeting you to other people, that is visible to players who target you with a specific action. They can easily see that you weren't targeted.

Passion of connection - you create a PM, that's visible to the people in the PM, but only if the creator is in it and claims it since if they aren't then the people in it wouldn't know who made it. @Zillah just to confirm, if someone puts two other people in a PM, do those players get to know who made the PM? 

Passion of empathy - a vote is removed from your total, very visible so long as you are voted on. Also easily verifiable. The only kink is if someone is doubling their vote.

Passion of protection - protect a player, this isn't very visible, you'd be hard pressed to find a way to see this one outside of the passion of teamwork.

Passion of teamwork - not very visible, you just get information, detectable with the passion of teamwork.

Passion of sabotage - roleblocks a player, not very visible. The person who is roleblocked knows this was used on them, but not by whom.

Passion of logic - doubles your vote, fairly visible, especially if you're the only one voting for another player, but even then it's seen on the vote count and narrowed down to a few players.

Passion of planning - invisible, the messages are anonymous and the secondary effect only every affects them.

Passion of research - read passion of teamwork

Passion of narcotics - read passion of passion

Passion of coercion - visible to the player you target, but they won't know who did it to them.

Passion of violence - very visible, kills a player, going to be one of the most analyzed things in the game.

 

So in conclusion, table 1 has 3 very visible and 2 lightly visible outcomes. Table 2 has 2 very visible and 2 lightly visible outcomes. Table 3 has 2 very visible and 2 lightly visible outcomes. So if you want to prove you're going for a specific table I'd suggest table 1.

In a more useful context, here are the passions that are very visible and lightly visible (ignoring passion and coercion)

Highly visible: survival, connection, empathy, logic, violence

Lightly visible: protection, teamwork, sabotage, coercion

Invisible: planning

[Mat]

Hey, @Elkanah! More NAI stuff from Kyne!  

So... it's weird. Because I've thought about how you pointed out that Kyne has been avoiding lynch/suspicions discussion and I've found that I agree.

Kynedath

See, the problem here is that you are also a gut elim read. So I've played into your hands considering my suspicions. Right now, though, that's fine- there are still plenty of hours in the cycle to reevaluate my suspicions. But now considering what you've said, my gut is disliking Kyne right now. So... that's where my vote goes, regardless of the fact that another suspicion pointed that out :P.

[Kynedath]

5 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Hey, @Elkanah! More NAI stuff from Kyne!  

So... it's weird. Because I've thought about how you pointed out that Kyne has been avoiding lynch/suspicions discussion and I've found that I agree.

Kynedath

See, the problem here is that you are also a gut elim read. So I've played into your hands considering my suspicions. Right now, though, that's fine- there are still plenty of hours in the cycle to reevaluate my suspicions. But now considering what you've said, my gut is disliking Kyne right now. So... that's where my vote goes, regardless of the fact that another suspicion pointed that out :P.

What? That WAS my attempt at being AI, I know it wasn't suspicions or anything, but it's day 1! It's trying to figure out a way to go forward from here, finding tools for myself to get more information out of what I see.

Look, if you guys want a suspicion list from me I can get it for you, but it'll be later this afternoon.

[|TJ|]

Letting you all know that rollover is an inconvenient time for me, and I probably won't be around for like 6 hours before the rollover. The best I can probably manage is to stay till 4 hrs before the time, so the last minute voting out discussions will have to be done without me. I'll probably turn in for the night now (I've got a terrible headache). But if I end up doom-scrolling on Twitter, I'll probably stay for a couple more hours. Due to the lack of discussions till now, I'm happy to keep my vote as it is. 

Not exactly suspicious of Kynedath about non-voting discussion as he told he will be talking about the roles pretty early in the cycle (and he brought the thread back to activity so that counts for something). At least, not suspicious enough to vote in the first day. I consider is NAI.  

[Zillah]

1 hour ago, Kynedath said:

@Zillah just to confirm, if someone puts two other people in a PM, do those players get to know who made the PM? 

No they do not.

[Ashbringer]

Er, I don't see role analysis as AI. Anyone can do it, and especially in this game where there's no role distribution to analyze roles it doesn't give that much substance.

It's better than silence, but it's not specifically Village indicative. Which I find odd he'd purport it as so.

 

I'll write up a post with RP/more thoughts in a few hours - college... fortunately I don't have any afternoon classes.

 

[The Young Pyromancer]

Mancia surveys the people with exasperation. It looked like she wouldn't find any leads. Still, she was already here, and might as well do some good. The memories of the temple were still fresh in her mind, even many years later, and she would do anything in her power to prevent death of that scale being repeated.

[Mat]

2 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Not exactly suspicious of Kynedath about non-voting discussion as he told he will be talking about the roles pretty early in the cycle (and he brought the thread back to activity so that counts for something). At least, not suspicious enough to vote in the first day. I consider is NAI. 

 

2 hours ago, Kynedath said:

What? That WAS my attempt at being AI, I know it wasn't suspicions or anything, but it's day 1! It's trying to figure out a way to go forward from here, finding tools for myself to get more information out of what I see.

Look, if you guys want a suspicion list from me I can get it for you, but it'll be later this afternoon.

After further reflection, perhaps I did jump out a bit far on Kyne. Though I wanted to get a vote out, I was now ready to retract it and look for better options, even if they might not exist on D1.

59 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Er, I don't see role analysis as AI. Anyone can do it, and especially in this game where there's no role distribution to analyze roles it doesn't give that much substance.

It's better than silence, but it's not specifically Village indicative. Which I find odd he'd purport it as so.

But yeah, this is true. So now I'm not sure again, and I won't retract yet.

Man, I'm glad I discovered the Multiquote button  Makes this a lot easier.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[Elandera]

Hello, hello, fine folk. Sorry it's taken me so long to check in. I've glanced at things but have been generally too busy to post or read thoroughly. 

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

Er, I don't see role analysis as AI. Anyone can do it, and especially in this game where there's no role distribution to analyze roles it doesn't give that much substance.

Most role analysis can be somewhat indicative later if the player doing the breakdown is elim. They'll sometimes downplay the importance of some of their teammates roles. 

As a counterpoint, this game doesn't really have traditional roles. Kynedath's analysis to me, actually seems a little village. It directly calls out certain actions elims may use to hide behind in claiming. I wouldn't say it's enough to clear him, but it's enough for me to counter a D1 lynch attempt. 

@Zillah or anyone, do you have a vote count available? I'd put one down myself but I'm on mobile and that's a pain. 

 

[Mat]

6 minutes ago, Elandera said:

As a counterpoint, this game doesn't really have traditional roles. Kynedath's analysis to me, actually seems a little village. It directly calls out certain actions elims may use to hide behind in claiming. I wouldn't say it's enough to clear him, but it's enough for me to counter a D1 lynch attempt. 

@Zillah or anyone, do you have a vote count available? I'd put one down myself but I'm on mobile and that's a pain. 

Agh, alright, fine. Kynedath. I was skeptical about them anyway, with my evidence being very minimal and largely coming from another suspect of mine, so... Be spared. For now. I'll still be watching  

Vote count, now that I've retracted:

• Sart (1): TJ Shade 
• Frozen Mint (1): Vapor 
• Vapor (1): Illwei 

Note that @Vapor's vote is a poke. This is what I mean when I say that we've been doing a lot of talking about nothing- I would've thought after 2 pages, in an LG, even with a low player count and D1, that we'd have more ground suspicions and discussion. But I can't really find anything concrete, so I guess I can't blame anyone else for that either.  I'll vote before the cycle ends. As for who, I haven't got the vaguest idea.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Matrim's Dice
Grammer, the ever-present curse

[Sart]

There's no vote minimum, and ties are decided by fate, so there's a 1 in 3 chance I'm going to die. I need to bring energy into the thread, and there's only one song capable of that.

Spoiler

 

Everybody get up, it's to time to slam down. We got a real jam going now. Welcome to the vote jam. Here's your chance, state your plans at the vote jam. Alright.

Come on and slam, and then we'll end the jam. Come on and slam, if you want a plan.

Hey Mist, what you gonna do? Hey you, what you gonna do?

All these people in the thread won't vote. So I'll start now alright let's go. You asked 'bout rules but then you zipped. And now I will unseal those lips.

And vote. Accuse you of hate. Attack you until you engage. Making sure you're in the room, but never make a big kaboom.

Just vote already, vote already, make sure you attack somebody. State your case and we'll be fine, take this thread into overdrive.

Hey fellas, turn it up. Spread the votes and burn it up. Control your fate, and start the game, so hey let's go.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Sart

[Mat]

Don't kill me for this  

In interest of having a controlled lynch, and seeing there are 2 hours left, I am voting Vapor because the reasoning for the existing vote on them is the reasoning I agree with the most out of the current votes. If a train forms later on someone I agree with more, I will change. But I'd rather not leave this up to chance.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[Elkanah]

I'll vote for @Kynedath to force @Elandera to start a counterwagon.

Kynedath

[---]

21 hours ago, Illwei said:

TBH if anyone decided to follow me just because of that reasoning I'd be kinda suspicious :P. 

19 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I am voting Vapor because the reasoning for the existing vote on them is the reasoning I agree with the most

*narrows eyes* 

Anyways yeah I don't really have any big suspicions right now, but that's just probably because I'm really bad at telling if posts are AI or not. so- yeah. In my notes for the last game I marked basically every post NAI because I really just can't tell. 
Anyways-

4 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Grammer, the ever-present curse

I mean, I would never call my Grammer a "curse". She may be frustrating sometimes, but not a curse  :P.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Illwei

[Mist]

Vapor's behavior is atypical for her, so I'm sus (for C1). I have what I think is a gut read on Matrim.

I have just finished school and cross country. I'll analyze, but I want to get something out.

[Elandera]

6 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I'll vote for @Kynedath to force @Elandera to start a counterwagon.

Kynedath

I'm not good at this. But I don't like the reasoning on Kynedath or Vapor. D1 is rough when it comes to finding something to say. It's almost always just trying to get other people to say something in order to get a read, or throwing out analysis of something we actually know (which is pretty much only rules on D1). Neither behavior I think is worth a D1 lynch.

I'm a bit more sus of Matrim at this point, but don't really want to lynch someone who is really pushing for activity on D1. I'd almost rather go for the contribution lynch at this point (especially after last game's definite struggle with activity that killed the village at the end).

Thus, Frozen Mint.

[Vapor]

Why are you voting Mint? I'm just doing it till she comes.

[Elandera]

3 minutes ago, Vapor said:

Why are you voting Mint? I'm just doing it till she comes.

*movie trailer voice*

In ancient times, before you or I were even aware of this world, there was a cause. Many took up arms to fight for this cause. They fought for activity and participation, culling the ranks of the lurkers and inactives. They came to be known as the...

Contribution Crusade

*Normal voice*

It's because I see them lurking, yet still not posting. I'm pretty sure someone else made that observation before, though I could be wrong. I also believe in there being real consequences to poke votes. If you didn't want them lynched at all, don't vote on them at all. Too often elims will "poke vote" their allies early in a game for distancing.