Fused and Thunderclast

[Quantus]

In Chapter 2, we learned there are e probably Nine varieties of Fused, and Kaladin mentions he has fought Seven of them.  There is a strong implication that each Order will have a corresponding Fused-type.  With that in mind, I am trying to correlate what we have seen to that framework.  

The biggest question I have is whether Thunderclasts are close enough to Fused that they count as one of the Nine, or if they will be counted separately.  One the one hand, they were created by ancient Singer Souls just like the rest of the Fised, so by origin they could be the same.  On the other hand they are animating the stone directly (per WOB) rather than a corpse they way all the other ancient Singer Soul's do.  I could see the Thunderclast cast as the Stonewards analog (big durable shock troop), following a similar theme of some others where they fiddle with their own body more directly than their Radiant counterpart.

• Windrunners ("Heavenly Ones") - Gravitation Surge
• Lightweavers - Illumination Surge
• Edgedancers - Abrasion Surge
• Elsecallers - Teleportation Surge
• [Willshapers??] - Carapice Manipulators
• [Stonewards??] - Thunderclast
• [Dustbringers] - Unknown (assume Division?)
• [Skybrealers] - No Clue
• [Truthwatchers] - No Clue
• [Bondsmith] - No Analog?

 

 

[Honorless]

One Surge doesn't necessarily mean only one power: basic and reverse Lashing of the Windrunners (& presumably Skybreakers) via the use of Gravitation. Abrasion could also be divided similarly into increasing or decreasing friction, we've only seen Lift use the latter, the former could be used for better grip or to set things on fire, very Edgedancer-y and Dustbringer-y respectively.

Over to more complicated break downs of a single Surge there's Illumination and Transformation. The former involves forging Connections with people and objects, which can apparently be used for remote viewing, as well as manipulation of the EM wave and sound waves, together these two components allow one to Lightweave. Soulcasting has its ten Essences, which can be called it's sub classifications, and in Way of Kings Prime was it's own thing.

Similarly, though the Fused seem to be using a copy of one Surge, it doesn't necessarily translate into one power. We see Kaladin speculating that the Heavenly Ones' flight and Lashings might be separate powers. Abrasion might be divided into two or something, where one expression of the Surge is used by one type of Fused.

[Quantus]

13 hours ago, Honorless said:

One Surge doesn't necessarily mean only one power: basic and reverse Lashing of the Windrunners (& presumably Skybreakers) via the use of Gravitation. Abrasion could also be divided similarly into increasing or decreasing friction, we've only seen Lift use the latter, the former could be used for better grip or to set things on fire, very Edgedancer-y and Dustbringer-y respectively.

Over to more complicated break downs of a single Surge there's Illumination and Transformation. The former involves forging Connections with people and objects, which can apparently be used for remote viewing, as well as manipulation of the EM wave and sound waves, together these two components allow one to Lightweave. Soulcasting has its ten Essences, which can be called it's sub classifications, and in Way of Kings Prime was it's own thing.

Similarly, though the Fused seem to be using a copy of one Surge, it doesn't necessarily translate into one power. We see Kaladin speculating that the Heavenly Ones' flight and Lashings might be separate powers. Abrasion might be divided into two or something, where one expression of the Surge is used by one type of Fused.

Oh sure, several Surges have multiple distinct "powers" or applications and I didnt expect that to change with the Fused equivalents.  Given that they do all have a single Surge though, I strongly doubt we will get any direct duplication of powers in the Fused, I expect them to remain very distinct.  Which is why I cannot figure out what the Sykbreaker equivalent will be, since both Gravitation and Division are the very obvious signature moves of other Orders to be duplicated. 

.  

 

[Wandering Investor]

I suspect the thunderclast are a different type of entity from the rest of the fused. They're too different, both in that they're animating stone instead of possessing a singer, and that they didn't seem to be actively using a surge when fighting, instead relying on raw power. It's possible that a surge is involved in operating their bodies, but even then that's a different method of wielding a surge than the usual fused. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Wandering Investor
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[Innovation]

Venli describes the Thunderclast’s souls as twisted and barely recognizable as Singer. My guess would be that they are similar to the Fused, but different and changed in profound ways. 

[Gilphon]

So the Transportation Fused Kaladin's been fighting has actually been reminding me of Thunderclasts a lot. Like what with the whole leaving his body and turning into a point of red light thing. Which is not to say that I think that guy could possess stone and become a Thunderclast if he wanted to, just that he has a similar feel to them. 

But I do think the Thunderclasts are a different things from the Fused. Their entire gimmick is different, and I feel like if they were dozens of Thunderclasts out there that would've come up before now. (note, btw, that the term 'Fused' is only ever used to refer to one who is currently inhabiting a Singer body. They're referred to as Voidspren when they're bodiless; I believe the idea is that they're technically a fusion of Voidspren and Singer. So by that standard, Thunderclast are by definition not Fused) 

Also: I suspect that Adhesion is the Surge that the Fused orders are missing. Which would imply that the Abrasion ones are Dustbringer equivalents and the Illumination ones are Truthwatcher equivalents. Or possibly any equivalencies that exist between Fused and Radiant orders are just rough approximations and we shouldn't be looking for a way to correlate them all. Like the Windrunners don't have any inherent preference for one-on-one fights and the Heavenly Ones don't seem to explicitly focused on protection, but they're considered equivalents became they both use Gravition and make a point of fighting cleanly. 

[ScavellTane]

I'm inclined towards Thunderclast being Tension-Fused. Mostly because I believe Renarin has access to Tension and that is what he used to disable the Thunderclast.

[+Bzhydack]

5 hours ago, ScavellTane said:

I'm inclined towards Thunderclast being Tension-Fused. Mostly because I believe Renarin has access to Tension and that is what he used to disable the Thunderclast.

No, he havent. Its very clear what powers Renarin have, and they are Progrssion (he used many times) and Illumination (damaged/corrupted but still).

And he used, I think Spiritual Illumination, to "clean" rocs from Spren influence and banish him.

[StanLemon]

The Thunderclasts to me are entirely different from Fused using Voidbinding. Thunderclasts seem more like the Midnight Essence to me, having powers based on the Ten Essences rather than Surges

[+Oltux72]

On 22/08/2020 at 10:34 AM, ScavellTane said:

I'm inclined towards Thunderclast being Tension-Fused. Mostly because I believe Renarin has access to Tension and that is what he used to disable the Thunderclast.

I must say Thunderclast scream Awakening to me, with a soul replacing Breath.

[Quantus]

Well that answers that, Per Venli there are nine "Brands" (as in Branding Iron) of Fused, and the Thunderclast and Unmade are both considered something above Fused tier entirely.  

[Realmatic Shadow]

43 minutes ago, Quantus said:

"Brands" (as in Branding Iron)

I prefer to interpret 'Brand' as in "Brands of cereal", if only for the mental image of different types of Fused as different types of cereal.
Who would be cornflakes...

[Quantus]

9 minutes ago, Realmatic Shadow said:

I prefer to interpret 'Brand' as in "Brands of cereal", if only for the mental image of different types of Fused as different types of cereal.
Who would be cornflakes...

Hehe, that was my first thought too, honestly, until Venli clarified the firebrand bit. I like to think of it as a very Punny "both" 

[+Child of Hodor]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:21 PM, Innovation said:

Venli describes the Thunderclast’s souls as twisted and barely recognizable as Singer. My guess would be that they are similar to the Fused, but different and changed in profound ways. 

I’d guess they are a combo of dead singer cognitive shadow + Chasmfiend CS. They have the arrow-shaped head of a Chasmfiend, but a humanoid body. 

[Innovation]

11 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I’d guess they are a combo of dead singer cognitive shadow + Chasmfiend CS. They have the arrow-shaped head of a Chasmfiend, but a humanoid body. 

Or maybe even whatever kind of greatshell that lived on Aimia, I forgot it’s name. 

[Shardsplinter]

1 hour ago, Innovation said:

Or maybe even whatever kind of greatshell that lived on Aimia, I forgot it’s name. 

It seems to be a commun agreement that Fused are the CS of a singer...well, fused to a spren of Odium. So, maybe Thunderclasts are a singer CS fused with the Odium version of the spren that is refered to as the soul of the Tali-na( or other greatshells?)

[Quantus]

12 hours ago, Shardsplinter said:

It seems to be a commun agreement that Fused are the CS of a singer...well, fused to a spren of Odium. So, maybe Thunderclasts are a singer CS fused with the Odium version of the spren that is refered to as the soul of the Tali-na( or other greatshells?)

The arent bonded to a VoidSpren so much as they were themselves made into spren-like Cognitive shadow.  They didnt bond a spren, they became one.  

[Shardsplinter]

9 hours ago, Quantus said:

The arent bonded to a VoidSpren so much as they were themselves made into spren-like Cognitive shadow.  They didnt bond a spren, they became one.  

That's what I said. I didn't use the term bond, I said they were singer whose souls were burned and branded by a VoidSpren, hence fusing then into one Cognitive Being.

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, Shardsplinter said:

That's what I said. I didn't use the term bond, I said they were singer whose souls were burned and branded by a VoidSpren, hence fusing then into one Cognitive Being.

You are saying that odium took a singer and a voidspren and together made a Fused.  I'm saying I don't think there was a separate voidspren involved, just the singer soul being warped. 

The reason I think the distinction is important (and this is just theory) is that Odium's a whole pattern and development over the desolations seems to be him trying to Invest as little of his own power as possible, presumably since that makes it more difficult to leave Roshar.  The Fused are some of his earliest creations fromback in the first generation of the migration when the Heralds were made, and the only reason I can think of for him to use mortal souls as a raw material instead of just making splinter spren like H&C do would be to reduce his Investment.