Cymatic Frequencies for Silver Kingdoms Cities

[Harakeke]

This may already be known, but as I was casually skimming through Sheldrake, Merlin & Sheldrake, Rupert. (2017). Determinants of Faraday Wave-Patterns in Water Samples Oscillated Vertically at a Range of Frequencies from 50-200 Hz. Water (as one does, once they've exhausted weightier tomes such as the Stormlight Archive), I noticed that some of the resonance patterns seemed familiar. Specifically, they resemble the street layouts of certain Silver Kingdoms cities, as recorded by Ardent Kabsal. Could these mathematical images be the inspiration for the cities' cymatic patterns, much like the Julia set rendering inspired the map of Roshar?

[Innovation]

They are very similar. Nice catch. Perhaps the Shattered plains were inspired by other cymatic patterns as well. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Innovation

[Medium]

That is really cool. I agree with Innovations theory. But what force was strong enough to do such a thing?

[Innovation]

4 hours ago, Esane said:

That is really cool. I agree with Innovations theory. But what force was strong enough to do such a thing?

Dawnshard? Something Lashed hundreds of times? A ridiculously large Thunderclast? 

[Medium]

Just now, Innovation said:

Dawnshard? Something Lashed hundreds of times? A ridiculously large Thunderclast? 

Oooooooo, this could get interesting. I think it has to be some sort of surge. Perhaps a BUTTLOAD of Knights Radiant around the plains (Dustbringers?) and they all used the surge of Divsion?

[Karger]

5 hours ago, Esane said:

That is really cool. I agree with Innovations theory. But what force was strong enough to do such a thing?

My personal theory is that they tapped into the forces of the planet itself(IRL we would call this Gaia although Rosharans might say Cultivation). 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Karger

[Harakeke]

On 8/17/2020 at 9:10 AM, Innovation said:

They are very similar. Nice catch. Perhaps the Shattered plains were inspired by other cymatic patterns as well. 

Seems likely, although I didn't spot any that matched in this research paper. Based on Nazh's map, it looks like the shattered plains have either 4-fold or 8-fold symmetry. 

[Medium]

21 hours ago, Karger said:

My personal theory is that they tapped into the forces of the planet itself(IRL we would call this Gaia although Rosharans might say Cultivation). 

Hmmmmmmmmmm. That would have to be a LOT of knights radiant to tap into that much CultivationPower to change THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of miles of stone

 

 

EDIT: But i like it

Edited August 18, 2020 by Esane
eeeeeeeeeeeee

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Esane said:

Hmmmmmmmmmm. That would have to be a LOT of knights radiant to tap into that much CultivationPower to change THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of miles of stone

I don't think the shard Cultivation did anything.  I think they manipulated some natural process of Roshar and it went wrong.  Introducing an invasive species is a small action yet it can cause a cascade failure that destroys an entire ecosystem.

[Medium]

Just now, Karger said:

I don't think the shard Cultivation did anything.  I think they manipulated some natural process of Roshar and it went wrong.  Introducing an invasive species is a small action yet it can cause a cascade failure that destroys an entire ecosystem.

What natural process? Did they somehow find a way to speed up erosion? Or did they do some sort of wierd earthquake? Hmmmmmmm.

 

 

I LIKE THIS CONVERSATION

[Halyo_Alex]

I think the Kholinar pattern is the most surprising to me. It's such an oddly-patterned map, and yet sure enough, there's a real cymatic pattern for it!

[Karger]

28 minutes ago, Esane said:

What natural process? Did they somehow find a way to speed up erosion? Or did they do some sort of wierd earthquake? Hmmmmmmm.

Roshar is a mechanism that does something.  If you interfere with that mechanism you can make highstorms come at the wrong time(the stormform listeners proved this).  I don't know what other effects exist but it looks like someone found one.

[Medium]

15 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I think the Kholinar pattern is the most surprising to me. It's such an oddly-patterned map, and yet sure enough, there's a real cymatic pattern for it!

I was thinking the same thing. It seems kind off not symmetrical for a city and cymatics in general. Yet there it is

[Medium]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

Roshar is a mechanism that does something.  If you interfere with that mechanism you can make highstorms come at the wrong time(the stormform listeners proved this).  I don't know what other effects exist but it looks like someone found one.

I like it. But i am gonna stop now-not to be rude-because my brain is hurting trying to process all this

[Harakeke]

I suspect the cymatic patterns of were created using an ancient fabriel that replicated the "voidbinding" applications of Tension and Illumination.

Take for example Kholinar and Sesemalex Dar. Tension could soften the stone into a malleable form, and Cohesion could alter its shape into the protective windblades and canyons. This initially points to the Stonewards -- but the vast scale seems beyond the limits of the glimpses of what we've seen Stonewards accomplish, and the alignment with auditory resonance frequencies suggest Listener, rather than human application of Investiture. Specifically, Illumination. While human surgebinders use Illumination for Lightweaving, its application can also include "various waveforms", according to the Ars Arcanum. So... perhaps this is related to the the mostly as-yet-unrevealed "voidbinding" powers? That in turn points to the Dawnsingers, except we know that they weren't responsible for big undertakings, such as the excavation of the Palanaeum. Furthermore, the cymatic patterns seem restricted to the earliest portions of the Dawncities, and the means by which they were created was lost over time. Newer cities such as Yeddaw had to be deliberately excavated using shardblades.  Much as an Oathgate accesses the surge of Transportation and amplifies it toward a singular purpose, a Tesnsion-Illumination fabrial might allow a single individual to liquefy the stone and vibrate it at the right frequencies to produce troughs and ridges. In some places (such as Kholinar and Sesemalex Dar) the original formations remain, but in most other cities they have been so eroded by Highstorms that the only indication of their existence is the overall layout of streets and buildings. 

So, tying this all together, here's my theory: Sometime shortly before or after the start of the First Desolation, we had a human going around with a fabrial whose design was inspired by how Listeners were using the surges of Tension and Illumination. This human, with the assistance of a willing (but not Bonded) spren used the fabrials to create sheltering outposts that allowed humanity to expand their territorial presence outside of Shinovar. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Harakeke

[Weltall]

Very nice spot! And yeah, I'm pretty certain that Brandon got the patterns from there (or really, some earlier paper since that one's only a few years old) since that's exactly how we got the shape of Roshar's landmass and people have even found the exact slice of the Julia set that gets the shape.

[Harakeke]

1 hour ago, Weltall said:

(or really, some earlier paper since that one's only a few years old) 

Oh, great point!  I forget we're coming up on the ten year anniversary of WoK...

[Brgst13]

Couple of other similarities:

119-122 Hz 2-fold resembles the Double Eye of the Almighty

130 Hz 8-fold closely resembles Nazh's map on page 973 of Words of Radiance e-book.

I will insert images when I figure out how to edit images to a reasonable size.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Brgst13
Originally had incorrect info

[Halyo_Alex]

1 hour ago, Brgst13 said:

Couple of other similarities:

119-122 Hz 2-fold resembles the Double Eye of the Almighty

130 Hz 8-fold closely resembles Nazh's map on page 973 of Words of Radiance e-book.

I will insert images when I figure out how to edit images to a reasonable size.

 

you can download paint . net and paste those into a blank canvas, crop it to the edges of the picture, then go to Image (on the top toolbar), Resize, and then you can enter a percentage or an absolute pixel resolution to change it to.

[Brgst13]

9 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

you can download paint . net and paste those into a blank canvas, crop it to the edges of the picture, then go to Image (on the top toolbar), Resize, and then you can enter a percentage or an absolute pixel resolution to change it to.

Will that work on my Android phone?

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Brgst13 said:

Will that work on my Android phone?

Hmmm probably not.

If you have some way to send pictures to a place (folder, whatever) that your computer can also access, that'd work too.

[Lightspine]

On 8/17/2020 at 8:52 AM, Esane said:

That is really cool. I agree with Innovations theory. But what force was strong enough to do such a thing?

My idea has always been a group of singers, back when they had whatever forms called them the Dawnsingers, working together (like the stormform regals do to summon the Everstorm). This is because the Dawncities were said to have been made by the Dawnsingers, and also the Listener songs about the Shattered Plains.

[Brgst13]

Crazy theory:

Each of the 10 Silver Kingdom cities has a shape based on a frequency that corresponds to the Investiture frequency of each of the 10 surges.  This would explain why the Singers seem to have taken on the characteristics of the city they lived in.  They were responding, perhaps subconsciously, to the frequency used to construct these cities.  It may also explain how those cities came to have these characteristics in the first place, as humans are known to subconsciously respond to the Rhythms.

[Honorless]

Found it again!

This is awesome, Harakeke! 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Honorless